70+ inch LED LCD impact on projectors? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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I know I'm a niche within a niche and for us few cinema fanatics that have large 'scope' screens that either zoom or use a A-lens to fill the screen I doubt any of us would be willing to go back to seeing black bars on even a 120" flat panel I don't care how black they would be, just knowing that portion of the screen isn't be used for my most enjoyable viewing of scope movies that I'd feel cheated.
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post #62 of 70 Old 05-26-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hmmm, not to be a downer or anything, lol

But I too have the Panasonic 65VT25 and absolutely love it.

I went to audition the higher-end JVC projectors - higher-end than the RS35 - and I could not wait to get back home to my VT25...

The picture is much brighter and the colors are much better...

It may not be the same cinematic experience, but I could not stand watching the dull, soft, JVC projector picture...

I wouldn't dispute what your eyes saw in that situation, but I guarantee you would not have that opinion if you saw my JVC RS55 with a good source.
The main reaction I have from guests who own flat panels (I have a Panasonic plasma as well) is to remark how unbelievably sharp, clear and detailed the image is. (I think the E-shift MPC settings help this even more). Now when I go to the AV stores, including the higher end AV stores, I can't help but think looking at most of the flat panels, "Wow, I get a sharper looking image than that, but at a cinematic size."

The only real caveat is a good flat panel, well calibrated, with it's frame interpolation (re: cheating) set on high. But then it's the dreaded Soap Opera effect on those things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Now that Panasonic has come out with 85" ($25,000) and 103" ($40,000) plasmas - and even 145" and 152" plasmas (but these prices are still insane)...

My local high end AV store has the Panasonic 103" plasma - once my dream display. Now when I watch content on that (e.g. a couple days ago I was watching some Panasonic demo HD scenes on that plasma), I feel I've got a better, sharper, smoother, more detailed image at home with the JVC projector. Something I never expected to think during the decade I was a plasma fanatic and never thought projection would "do it" for me in terms of image quality.

I don't think projectors are always better in every way. The ANSI contrast of some flat panels can be insane - much more than a projector. And they can hold dark black levels and great contrast in more challenging conditions.

But back to the main point: one of the things that truly surprised me when I started splitting my shopping between going with a 65" Panasonic plasma or a projector, was that the better projectors were putting out such phenomenally sharp images.

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post #63 of 70 Old 05-28-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

It may not be the same cinematic experience, but I could not stand watching the dull, soft, JVC projector picture...

That's exactly what I used to say about CRT pj's; I can only imagine you saw a poorly functioning or set up pj, or the light control in the room was poor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Especially people who are paying $30,000+ on a projector and another $10,000+ on a screen...

You needn't spend more than $5K; JVC RS45 with large HP screen for example.

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post #64 of 70 Old 05-28-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

That's exactly what I used to say about CRT pj's; I can only imagine you saw a poorly functioning or set up pj, or the light control in the room was poor.

You needn't spend more than $5K; JVC RS45 with large HP screen for example.

No...

The room was totally dark...

The movie was Pirates of the Carribean - #22, lol

And the darker ship scenes were terrible, dull, all washed out...

The movie looks much better on the 65" VT25 plasma...

At least that is my feeling - yours may differ...
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post #65 of 70 Old 05-28-2012, 12:52 PM
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HTG,

It could be that the projector you saw hadn't been properly calibrated.
Or it might have been properly calibrated and you prefer vivid colors instead of natural colors.

Any time somebody says in a review that the colors "pop", this tells me that the display device was incorrectly calibrated but that's the way they like it. Unless you're watching a cartoon containing mostly primary colors, colors should be more nearly pastel. (Look around you at the real world ) Crushed blacks (a limited number of dark greys in the dark portions of a scene), on the other hand, is a generic problem caused by how most LCD projectors and TVs work.

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post #66 of 70 Old 05-28-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

HTG,

It could be that the projector you saw hadn't been properly calibrated.
Or it might have been properly calibrated and you prefer vivid colors instead of natural colors.

Any time somebody says in a review that the colors "pop", this tells me that the display device was incorrectly calibrated but that's the way they like it. Unless you're watching a cartoon containing mostly primary colors, colors should be more nearly pastel. (Look around you at the real world ) Crushed blacks (a limited number of dark greys in the dark portions of a scene), on the other hand, is a generic problem caused by how most LCD projectors and TVs work.

You are right!

I like vivid colors instead of "natural"

As a matter of fact... I have my VT25 set to "custom" which is one level below vivid - and I do not like THX mode...

THX mode looks too washed out to me...

But then again, I don't like the "cartoonish" look of the LCD TVs...

So, I guess maybe it is just me....
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post #67 of 70 Old 05-28-2012, 05:26 PM
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Well once you see a reference display* switch between 709 and the wider DCi colour space you know colours don't have to be pastel. Everything looks darker but still more detailed than in ITU R.709 colourspace. Neither looks anything like the washout of pastels, but the added depth/width shows.

HometheaterGuy, I am getting more and more convinced that you need to look into a Barco and target for 100 fL.

*In this case a 42" direct LED lit LCD by Dolby
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post #68 of 70 Old 05-29-2012, 01:34 AM
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Most people who own projectors probably own a flat panel or two. The picture on my flat panel which is an old 720p model is better than my projection setup(Pana ae7000 160" High Power screen dedicated dark room) and by considerable margin in some ways but the image is still very good on the projector and is 16 times the size. When it comes to the enjoyment of watching movies then the projection setup wins easily, with other viewing material like t.v shows and gaming I prefer the flat panel. If I was only wanting a screen size of 80" then I would buy a flat panel over a projector no question but I desire a much larger image size for movies so projection is still the best option.
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post #69 of 70 Old 05-29-2012, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeTheaterGuy74 View Post

Hmmm, not to be a downer or anything, lol

But I too have the Panasonic 65VT25 and absolutely love it.

I went to audition the higher-end JVC projectors - higher-end than the RS35 - and I could not wait to get back home to my VT25...

The picture is much brighter and the colors are much better...

It may not be the same cinematic experience, but I could not stand watching the dull, soft, JVC projector picture...

Now that Panasonic has come out with 85" ($25,000) and 103" ($40,000) plasmas - and even 145" and 152" plasmas (but these prices are still insane)...

I think in the next few years projectors might have a fight on their hands...

Especially people who are paying $30,000+ on a projector and another $10,000+ on a screen...

Just my thoughts...


I upgraded from a 63" samsung c8000 plasma to a sony hw30 projector with a 133" dalite hi power screen.

I have had a few top tvs, including a panasonic plasma about 4 years ago, a samsung 52A650, a sony 52XBR7, and then the Sony XBR8, which compared to the Kuro favorably in every area but viewing angle.

Anyways, when i first fired up the projector, i was shocked to see how sharp the image looked! the LCDs and plasmas were very sharp (Sonys XBR8 was AMAZING for image detail) but the projector trumped all in detail. The difference is that the screen is so much bigger that i can actually SEE all the detail that i was missing out on my puny(!) 50/55/63 inch set.

Don't get me wrong, as the Sony HW30 is not a top projector when it comes to black levels. And during the darkest scenes, a plasma would have a better black floor. But who cares when the image is so clear and large! the projector is certainly not awful in comparison, and, in fact, it is much closer than i expected. I haven't seen the JVCs in action, but i would love to see what the RS65 would look like in a properly treated room! The main difference is that compared to my 63", the 133" screen is more than 4X larger. Immersion is much much better. I can't go back to the Samsung 63" and watch anything like a movie or Game of Thrones or something like that.

Now, i've seen an 80" screen at costco, and it was huge compared to all TVs i've seen, BUT my 133" screen, which isn't massive by any means (many here have larger) has a 176.39% larger area (according to displaywars.com).

How would i get a 133" TV in my house?

EDIT: i wanted to add that after gaming on a large screen, i've noticed that i CAN'T game on a smaller TV. I've wrecked myself!
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post #70 of 70 Old 07-02-2012, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

When LED LCDs get as big as 80 inch alot of people with modest size screen might ask themselves why a projector should be the next new display purchase.

Here's a good reason why. This is about 4x bigger than 80". biggrin.gif $1,400 for the JVC RS-15 projector and a few hundred for the surround sound. Would love to see the dollars per inch for an 80 LED. lol400
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