Help me out please... poll - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: To upgrade from HW30 or no?
Ditch the HW30 and put up with the lesser blacks and sharpness 0 0%
Get the VW95 and have improved sharpness and great blacks 0 0%
Get the RS55 and get the best blacks and better sharpness but more lag and ghosting 0 0%
See what comes out next year 0 0%
Other (please explain in comments) 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 26 Old 03-14-2012, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I currently have a Sony HW30ES projector with a 133" 16x9 Da-lite Hi Power screen in a very dark (95% light controlled) room, and i'm pretty darn satisfied except for a few things. Mind you, this is my first projector, and i've never seen a JVC or DLP in action, just mine. I live in the middle of nowhere

So, my use for the projector is probably about 50% gaming, 50% movies and TV. I use the 3D for movies too, so that is important.

I find that there is literally no lag i can feel for gaming.

So i like the 3D performance for movies and i like the overall pic it puts out, but i can tell that the black level is not up to the best projectors. Also, the sharpness is very good, but i can imagine it being better on a higher end projector with a better lens. I have a friend who wants to buy the HW30 off me for a very fair price, so i can upgrade if i want to. I can get up to the price of a Sony VW95 or a JVC RS55.

So, is it worth it for just better black levels to go with the VW95, and have the same 3D pq and lag for gaming, or should i sacrifice a bit of lag and risk having more crosstalk and go with a JVC RS55 (X7) for the holy grail of blacks?Has anyone seen the VW95 side by side with a 2012 JVC? I would go DLP for the sharpness and perfect 3d but for the price, there isn't anything with blacks comparable to the VW95 or RS55.

Or should i just stick with what i have and sell for less next year after the new stuff comes out?
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-14-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

So, my use for the projector is probably about 50% gaming, 50% movies and TV. I use the 3D for movies too, so that is important.

For that usage, I don't think the RS55 is an option. It's just my opinion, but anything other than causal gaming on that would be a non-starter for me. Others may disagree --- this is a very individual item.

I haven't seen lag numbers for the VW95. I assume it's the same as the HW30... but one never knows until measured.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

So i like the 3D performance for movies and i like the overall pic it puts out, but i can tell that the black level is not up to the best projectors.

I've found the black level to be AMAZING. I've done tests where I hold my hand up and block the projected light during a bright scene and the difference between my shadow and the black in the picture is ever so slight.

I informally noticed that the black level didn't look as good if you were using a short throw (e.g., projector closest to screen). I say "informally" because it was an observation that occurred while doing something else and I didn't spend much time looking into it. You might try moving the projector further away. I've read that lenses have more internal reflections at wide (short throw) so it negatively effects black levels.
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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My projector is mid throw, definitely not long throw.
So the consensus is to wait until next year, or get the vw95? How much of a difference is there in pq between the hw30 and vw95? Anybody see both?
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 06:24 AM
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How close do you sit to the 133" HP?

12 feet back
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

12 feet back

our setup is similar, I am also sitting ~ 1.25 SW from the 142" HP. I can crank the RS55 iris down to -13 and it's still quite bright on the HP screen with excellent contrast. The big difference though on a screen this size is the e-shift.

With good source content, I keep the e-shift on all the time. It's hard to describe exactly what the effect is, but the image is very sharp with an increased perception in contrast. Facial features become more detailed and the overall IQ looks excellent.

obviously the RS55 isn't ideal if your looking for gaming or 3D, but I think it's going to put out the best IQ for this sized screen at your seating distance. The killer black floor + the e-shift is the formula.

I use the HW30 for just about everything else, regular TV, kids animations, 3D, but I switch to the RS55 for any BD viewing. I still like the HW30 and think it's a great overall projector. It might be worth waiting until the fall to see what's coming out.
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

our setup is similar, I am also sitting ~ 1.25 SW from the 142" HP. I can crank the RS55 iris down to -13 and it's still quite bright on the HP screen with excellent contrast. The big difference though on a screen this size is the e-shift.

With good source content, I keep the e-shift on all the time. It's hard to describe exactly what the effect is, but the image is very sharp with an increased perception in contrast. Facial features become more detailed and the overall IQ looks excellent.

obviously the RS55 isn't ideal if your looking for gaming or 3D, but I think it's going to put out the best IQ for this sized screen at your seating distance. The killer black floor + the e-shift is the formula.

I use the HW30 for just about everything else, regular TV, kids animations, 3D, but I switch to the RS55 for any BD viewing. I still like the HW30 and think it's a great overall projector. It might be worth waiting until the fall to see what's coming out.

Well that pretty much seals the deal then. I'm pretty interested what sony will do to improve the VW95.... really, the 3D is great, the contrast is second only to JVC (sonys dynamic iris not withstanding), motion is top notch. What could they do other than improve contrast and 4K?

Also, the JVC would be awesome if they would just improve the refresh rate to 240 hz. I bet that would eliminate much of the ghosting as well as improve input lag.

Also, if i could find a vw1000 for 15k, i'd jump on it
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I have a friend who wants to buy the HW30 off me for a very fair price, so i can upgrade if i want to.

If you can sell your HW30 for a fair price do it now, HW30 will go down in value over time.
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

If you can sell your HW30 for a fair price do it now, HW30 will go down in value over time.

This comment is somehow unique to the HW30? Did I miss that other projectors are now considered investments?
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

If you can sell your HW30 for a fair price do it now, HW30 will go down in value over time.

I can, but what should i get then?
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I can, but what should i get then?

The 55 & 95 are both great projectors, I like the 95 more. Check out Joerod's website he reviewed both @ joe rod home theater com
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 03:35 PM
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I'd take the 95 now since life is too short. It is the second best projector this round. Best under 10K!

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

The 55 & 95 are both great projectors, I like the 95 more. Check out Joerod's website he reviewed both @ joe rod home theater com

Thanks for that.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

Check out these new Lighted Cup Holders:
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I'd take the 95 now since life is too short. It is the second best projector this round. Best under 10K!


Hmmm joe, I'm definitely considering it. You have seen both the hw30 and vw95 in action, how would you say they compare? How much better is the image from the vw95?
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-15-2012, 04:57 PM
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The 95 has better sharpness across the entire screen whereas the 30 is more concentrated in the center. The 95 has much better depth and blacks. It is much easier to set up using the remote. There are also many more tweaks and features you get. Those help you get an even better image. Overall if you never A/B them you could be fine but having both the difference is easily noticable. The 30 is slightly brighter. And 3D is excellent on both. Of course the 95 has better depth.

Search or copy and paste-> Joe Rod Home Theater .Com <-to check out my latest Reviews.

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post #16 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 05:22 AM
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Why not look at a Mits HC9000A. Sharper then both the 95 and 55 with very good backs. I also believe the input lag is very good.
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post #17 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 06:59 AM
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post #18 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtdking View Post

Why not look at a Mits HC9000A. Sharper then both the 95 and 55 with very good backs. I also believe the input lag is very good.

i was considering the mits as well, but the iris doesn't work very good compared to the sony i believe
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post #19 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 09:43 AM
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IMO you should wait to leapfrog what you have, not go for incremental % gains.
Heck, you should be totally blown away by the new PJ, not have to take meter readings/etc to see the difference.

Hence I voted "other".

Take that from a person who has a 2008 Sony VW60, viewed on a 130" screen (102" 16:9)....on my 2nd bulb soon to be 3rd bulb....and have targeted 2014 as my year to upgrade the PJ.

Truly, people come over to our HT and are so totally blown away with the image.
Your HW30ES has so gotta kick my VW60's butt dude, really you are that dis-satisfied??

Just trying to give you a different viewpoint, and save you some $ now and get more usage from your investment.

It's almost like this:
You buy every year, and try to minimize your $ "loss", and justify it as monthly usage as a hobby enthuasist...which some do..that is cool for them
or
You do your homework, have a budget, and buy and enjoy what you have, imperfections and all, till the technology truly has leapfrogged what you have.
Then, look at buying again.
(I say this from my experience at spending $38k+ on home computer 1984-1997, always feeling like I needed the cutting edge....got tired of funding R&D for the PC industry)

Being this is an enthuasist forum, I expect my response to be in the minority, that's ok.
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post #20 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 11:00 AM
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I'm about to be on my 4th bulb as well with my Sony VW50, another option you have is sell your HW30 to your friend & if this year is like last year you can find out what the HW30 sucessor will be like in June & purchase it in August
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post #21 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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i AM pretty satisfied with the HW30, especially for the price. I don't think i want a downgrade in anything i have now, which means no more lag, no more crosstalk, and worse motion, so the JVC is out. The VW95 is tempting, but as a couple of posters have commented, the difference will be big not not massive and cost at least 2-3 k more.

Maybe i will keep what i have until either:
A) I find a deal i can't resist (vw95 for $3000 or something, that is what the VW90 are going for on ebay new!)
B) Bulbs are out and LEDs/Lasers are in so no bulb replacements (doubt it will be soon)
C) 4K projectors become mainstream and become more reasonable in price OR
D) contrast becomes OLED-like.

I doubt any of this will come THIS year, but boy, would that be nice!
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-16-2012, 04:19 PM
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Is 3D a deal breaker? In my opinion I would step into an entry-level DLP projector like the Runco LS5 or the Sim2 Crystal 35/45. I have seen both of these projectors side by side with the Sony 95ES and they just destroyed it. I have also seen the JVC X70 but not comparatively. I don't recall seeing a budget but even stepping to a Q750 or a Mico 40 (what I have) would be an upgrade over just about anything but a 3chip DLP. The LED projectors also have blacks that rival anything I have personally seen plus color separation, if you are sensitive to it, is non-existant. Didn't see anyone mention anything about DLP so my 2 cents.
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post #23 of 26 Old 03-17-2012, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by showcattleguy View Post

Is 3D a deal breaker? In my opinion I would step into an entry-level DLP projector like the Runco LS5 or the Sim2 Crystal 35/45. I have seen both of these projectors side by side with the Sony 95ES and they just destroyed it. I have also seen the JVC X70 but not comparatively. I don't recall seeing a budget but even stepping to a Q750 or a Mico 40 (what I have) would be an upgrade over just about anything but a 3chip DLP. The LED projectors also have blacks that rival anything I have personally seen plus color separation, if you are sensitive to it, is non-existant. Didn't see anyone mention anything about DLP so my 2 cents.

Unfortunately I definitely want 3d. I was considering the nicer dlps, but for the price, the 3d would be preferred.
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post #24 of 26 Old 11-20-2012, 08:51 PM
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whitetrash66,
which projector did you end up with? I have same situation.
130" screen size, completely dark room. I don't own any screen or projector but looking for one. Deciding if I should get 50ES or VW95EW. I'm also going to watch 2D movies, 3D movies and some gaming.
Thanks.
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post #25 of 26 Old 11-21-2012, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post

whitetrash66,
which projector did you end up with? I have same situation.
130" screen size, completely dark room. I don't own any screen or projector but looking for one. Deciding if I should get 50ES or VW95EW. I'm also going to watch 2D movies, 3D movies and some gaming.
Thanks.

Hey, i was surprised to see this thread bumped!

I ended up getting a b-stock VW95 from AVS. The main factors were:
-Motion on the VW95 is the same as my HW30, which is great
-Lag for gaming and PC use is the same as the HW30, much better than any JVC projector
-3D is very good for the sony projectors, which is important to me. i don't want a crippled 3D experience. A lot of people complain of ghosting on the JVCs
-Reviews directly comparing the VW95 to the X70 state that the picture quality is so close, it's hard to pick a winner. Black levels are not that much better on the JVC, and apparently, close
that there isn't a noticeable difference on most material
-AVS had such a good price on the B stock VW95 with warranty, it was hard to say no

Unfortunately i haven't received it yet. It took nearly 2 weeks to clear US customs, and now it has to clear Canadian customs. And then travel basically across the country to me. But that
is my fault, i should have spent more on the shipping because i'm very impatient.biggrin.gif

I will update this thread with impressions when i receive it.
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post #26 of 26 Old 11-21-2012, 07:47 AM
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Yes sir this thread is alive and very interesting. Please let us know about your experince with VW95ES on 130" and specially with 3D (since a lot of people say that it has very low Lumin for 3D specially when screen size is bigger than 100").
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