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post #1 of 38 Old 04-07-2012, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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hi
im looking to get RS45 (x30) for my home cinema,like that great quality in 2d also i would be watching 3d sometimes, i know about ghosting so just wonder is any leak about new models from JVC? If new model will be out at the same price as RS45 and will have some improvment in 3d also maybe 4k ,than it could be 100% perfect one and maybe its worth to wait....
Any sugestions about that?


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post #2 of 38 Old 04-07-2012, 02:03 PM
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The newer models won't ship until Dec to Feb most likely.
So you'd have a pretty long wait, it might have some improvements in 3D, I don't think we know yet.

I wouldn't worry about getting 4k over e-shift, the JVC RS-55 has e-shift and this enhances the image slightly much like upscaling to 4k. The problem with 4k is there is no content, and there won't be for a very long time. By the time 4k content is available, we will be looking at different projectors again. Some people say 4k in 2-3 years, but that is probably the earliest we will even see anything trickle down, and it'll probably be like 3d or some special high-end equipment with limited selection of media. I am thinking 4-8 years to even see any main media in that format, unless Sony decides otherwise as they are really the ones with the power when it comes to this stuff.


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post #3 of 38 Old 04-07-2012, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The newer models won't ship until Dec to Feb most likely.
So you'd have a pretty long wait, it might have some improvements in 3D, I don't think we know yet.

I wouldn't worry about getting 4k over e-shift, the JVC RS-55 has e-shift and this enhances the image slightly much like upscaling to 4k. The problem with 4k is there is no content, and there won't be for a very long time. By the time 4k content is available, we will be looking at different projectors again. Some people say 4k in 2-3 years, but that is probably the earliest we will even see anything trickle down, and it'll probably be like 3d or some special high-end equipment with limited selection of media. I am thinking 4-8 years to even see any main media in that format, unless Sony decides otherwise as they are really the ones with the power when it comes to this stuff.

I couldn't imagine that next model from jvc will have 3d at the same level as RS45..i think will be some improvment for sure in 3d,just as you said long wait...
Forgot about e-shift,that could be something great in basic model,but dont think thats gonna happend,as must be some different with higher models...


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post #4 of 38 Old 04-07-2012, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by peter08 View Post


I couldn't imagine that next model from jvc will have 3d at the same level as RS45..i think will be some improvment for sure in 3d,just as you said long wait...
Forgot about e-shift,that could be something great in basic model,but dont think thats gonna happend,as must be some different with higher models...

regards

I would understand if JVC doesn't have 4K panels in their higher models since there is no content for it. Just like coderguy says, content will be at least 2-3 years away from having something. And much longer for mainstream. 3D is finally coming along, but still not that much.

If the higher end JVC models keep the e-shift, I doubt that the lower model will have it, since there will be no separation between lower and higher models.
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post #5 of 38 Old 04-08-2012, 06:24 AM
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The limitation with 3D on the JVC projectors is directly related to the relatively slow response time of their DILA (LCoS) micro-display chips. The response time is especially long when going from black to white. There is no easy fix for this as it will probably require some serious R&D to improve the DILA chip's response time without degrading performance in some other area (such as contrast ratio). Clearly JVC was not able to make any such improvement in going from the 2011 models to the 2012 models. We will have to wait until at least the CEDIA Expo in Sept. 2012 to see what JVC has in store for the 2013 models. Even then we will probably not really know how well they will perform for 3D in the real world and it will probably be in December 2012 when we start to get real world first hand reports for production 2013 projectors.

I feel there s a reasonable chance JVC will include a 4K/24 input capability (via HDMI) on the 2013 models that have e-Shift. However, this is not just a matter of using a different HDMI chip since the e-Shift is not really 4K resolution, but produces pseudo 3840 x 2160 pixel (1080p x 2) images instead of 4096 x 2180 used for native 4K. It is certainly possible that JVC will also introduce a flagship model (in the $20K price range) that has native 4K resolution (they already make a commercial 4K projector) to compete against next year's Sony 4K consumer model (i.e., the 2013 replacement for the VPL-VW1000).

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post #6 of 38 Old 04-08-2012, 07:45 AM
 
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I really think consumer 4K will be 3840 x 2160 anyway. I am guessing that JVC will in their next generation e shift machines provide for 4hD (3840 x 2160) sources. I don't have a good instinct about whether 4096 x 2160 would be allowed because of the much more difficult down scaling that would be necesary to end up with two 1080p frames to be flashed. Regardless, likely there would be no real need anyway.
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post #7 of 38 Old 04-08-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I really think consumer 4K will be 3840 x 2160 anyway. I am guessing that JVC will in their next generation e shift machines provide for 4hD (3840 x 2160) sources. I don't have a good instinct about whether 4096 x 2160 would be allowed because of the much more difficult down scaling that would be necesary to end up with two 1080p frames to be flashed. Regardless, likely there would be no real need anyway.

I guess we will have to wait until the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) completes their spec. for the 4K version of Blu-ray (perhaps within the next year) to see what resolution(s) it includes for consumer 4K media. Also the current HDMI 1.4a spec. does not support 3D with 4K, so we may see an update to both the HDMI spec. (e.g., HDMI 1.5) to go along with the 4K Blu-ray spec. if BD is going to support 3D at the 4K resolution. Perhaps JVC and other projector manufacturers may wait until the BDA puts out a reasonably mature draft of the new BD 4K spec. before they complete their designs for a production 4K (or 4k lite) projector (or flat panel TV). If this is the case then it could push back JVC adding 4K inputs until the 2014 models. However JVC's current e-shift design cannot do 3D with 4K so for JVC it would just be a case of supporting the 2D BD 4K signal formats/resolution.

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post #8 of 38 Old 04-09-2012, 08:28 PM
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J6P is still renting/watching DVDs. I don't see mass-market 4K BD until DVD goes away. The stores don't want to stock/display yet another format. (Just) One of the reasons why HD-DVD died. Maybe 4K will drive the death of DVD, but when?

The JVCs need improvement in 3D for sure, especially in the brightness department, and as Ron Jones points out, their lower chip RT is an issue that needs to be overcome too.

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post #9 of 38 Old 04-09-2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

J6P is still renting/watching DVDs. I don't see mass-market 4K BD until DVD goes away. The stores don't want to stock/display yet another format. (Just) One of the reasons why HD-DVD died. Maybe 4K will drive the death of DVD, but when?

The JVCs need improvement in 3D for sure, especially in the brightness department, and as Ron Jones points out, their lower chip RT is an issue that needs to be overcome too.

Hopefully 4K will be accessible unlike 3D. If 3D could be rented like dvds and blu rays are, maybe I would be more into it. I'm not going to buy every blu ray that comes out and I'm definitely not buying 3D blu rays every time they are released. It's just easier to rent blu rays and if i like the movies, 2-3 months I can get that movie for $10-15. With 3D, it seems to never come down and you basically have to dish out $25-30 to see if the movie is worth it or rent them online for too much. Or in my case, get them from blockbuster online. I been waiting for 3 months for certain 3D movies from them. If 4K disc is going to have the same availability as 3D blu rays, it will be a tough sell.
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post #10 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter08 View Post

hi
im looking to get RS45 (x30) for my home cinema,like that great quality in 2d also i would be watching 3d sometimes, i know about ghosting so just wonder is any leak about new models from JVC? If new model will be out at the same price as RS45 and will have some improvment in 3d also maybe 4k ,than it could be 100% perfect one and maybe its worth to wait....
Any sugestions about that?


regards,

They will have new models for sure. Announced at Cedia, as others said shipping late in the year. What will be better? No idea yet...

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post #11 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 09:03 AM
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how about SONY, HW30 was shippped at the end of the summer last year, I assume the new model will come pretty much like the same time, right?
My dedicate home theater will be finished around early August, I really hope can get the new model at that time.
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post #12 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 11:39 AM
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Reduced ghosting is my number one wish for the new models. I would also like to see........

Flicker eliminated
Better 3d brightness
Gaming mode to get lag down
100% accurate lens memory
Enough masking for variable aspect films for us CIH zoomers

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post #13 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 12:47 PM
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I, too, hope JVC will get it's act together. I'm looking for better motion, much better 3D, and if they can, more contrast. If they fail to do so, I'll be on the lookout for Sony's next mid-line projector which will probably be called the VW 100es. If Sony can get a nice big boost in contrast and black levels...it'll be tough to pick anything else since they already have aced motion, colors, and 3D. Can't wait!
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post #14 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 02:57 PM
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I'd love for improvements in the areas of 3D crosstalk, 3D brightness, and FI in 3D. I'd love for nice improvements in contrast but as far as a "big boost" in contrast I've pretty much given up on that happening.
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post #15 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 03:20 PM
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I'd love for improvements in the areas of 3D crosstalk, 3D brightness, and FI in 3D. I'd love for nice improvements in contrast but as far as a "big boost" in contrast I've pretty much given up on that happening.

Good call! I forgot about FI in 3d which is also something I very much want.

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post #16 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 05:30 PM
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I, too, hope JVC will get it's act together. I'm looking for better motion, much better 3D, and if they can, more contrast. If they fail to do so, I'll be on the lookout for Sony's next mid-line projector which will probably be called the VW 100es. If Sony can get a nice big boost in contrast and black levels...it'll be tough to pick anything else since they already have aced motion, colors, and 3D. Can't wait!

Sony already had a VW100 so I doubt that model name/number will be used again. Maybe a VW96 or VW950 will be the next gen version replacing the VW95.

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post #17 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 05:31 PM
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RS65 is a big boost in contrast ... however at a price !
My previous PJ was RS35 which was the top contrast of its generation.
I was not expecting the RS65 to be that noticable of a contrast jump, but it is IMO.

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Sony already had a VW100 so I doubt that model name/number will be used again. Maybe a VW96 or VW950 will be the next gen version replacing the VW95.

You're right Ron I forgot about that. Well, whatever its called if they can match JVC's mid-line projector blacks, then I will most likely choose the Sony over whatever JVC makes. Of course its way to early, but I like talking (and dreaming) about next year's technology upgrades.
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post #19 of 38 Old 04-10-2012, 08:43 PM
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Unless Sony redesigns everything, the contrast won't match the JVC's, this year, next year, or the year after that. There is always a slim chance they will make a breakthrough, but this has been going on for a while now. JVC has a monopoly on native on/off contrast. If JVC added a highly customizeable / configureable IRIS, then our JVC projectors would utterly smoke the others at black levels even more so. However, if they did an IRIS, I guess it would be a marketing problem for them. The JVC's with a non-aggressive IRIS would really fill in the rest of what we are missing.


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post #20 of 38 Old 04-11-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by berserk_sun View Post

how about SONY, HW30 was shippped at the end of the summer last year, I assume the new model will come pretty much like the same time, right?
My dedicate home theater will be finished around early August, I really hope can get the new model at that time.

Not necessarily. Sony often runs more than a 1 year cycle. JVC never does. Not saying Sony won't have a new model, but it may be later than this summer.

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post #21 of 38 Old 04-11-2012, 03:28 PM
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What's so different about Sony's implementation of LCOS that it can't match the JVCs? It would seem that by now Sony would've pulled apart one of the JVCs and have learned their tricks by now.
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post #22 of 38 Old 04-11-2012, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

What's so different about Sony's implementation of LCOS that it can't match the JVCs? It would seem that by now Sony would've pulled apart one of the JVCs and have learned their tricks by now.

Yeah, that's what I find puzzling too.
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post #23 of 38 Old 04-11-2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

What's so different about Sony's implementation of LCOS that it can't match the JVCs? It would seem that by now Sony would've pulled apart one of the JVCs and have learned their tricks by now.

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Yeah, that's what I find puzzling too.

The process they use must be patented and no one has figured out a way to do it without risking a mega law suit. So far no dice from any manufacture matching them in that area.
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post #24 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 12:46 AM
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I just dont know what JVC has been doing in the past 3+ years. They were producing the very best all around pjs at great price points and then it was like they just quit caring about anything other than contrast, except for the eshift which is just a feature for drawing in those that are on the fence about true 4k, IMO. They used to make it a purpose to produce a product that truly outperform the others. Now their 3D is well behind even most of the cheapest of models, lamps and brightness are nowhere near what they should be when compared to rivals. I absolutely love my RS1x that outperforms anything in its price range across the board in my opion, but every since I've started wanting to upgrade it the newer models have had more problems than an AA/NA meeting. One would think that a company that only has R&D with pretty much one technology would get it right with all the problems that keep recurring throughout the next models. I just really dont get it at all. If they want to develope a 3D pj then they should do it right or just stick to an awesome 2D pj that really cant be touched by its rivals. Its obvious the 3D on every JVC pj is really lacking compared to its competitors and even the lower priced brands. They should use lamps that are equivalent to what they used to use, hell I could use a lamp for well over 1500 hrs no problem at all. To me something has really changed the way things are run in corp but thats just me. I havent done any research because none of their pjs have been worth upgrading to in quite a while when looking back at their track history in the business. I thought that maybe using two RS45s would be a good solution for its brightness and crosstalk issues for a while but that even turned me off. Bottom line is the company isnt what it was 4 or 5 years ago for some reason. I've been waiting and waiting for a new release from them that will prove they are still trying to be on top in this business but it hasnt even come close to happening! Please excuse this rant but I'm sure I'm not the only one of many that truly feel this way! I thought I would be a JVC pj guy for life since they are one of the only companies that truly have one technology to make work the best that they can and it seems like they dont even try to fix their ongoing problems. Once they get back to making the pjs of old I'll be right back on their bandwagon that I jumped straight off head first. I think it may have started when the best parts were used to make the select pjs for sales gimmick or whatever that might have been called. Point is they were the same parts as in the other pjs but just inspected to make sure they were working properly. What kind of crap is that? I'm done and really hope they make a strong surge with the 3D crosstalk and lamps. Then I'll be right back in line waiting for one to arrive at the door.
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post #25 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 02:05 AM
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I just dont know what JVC has been doing in the past 3+ years. They were producing the very best all around pjs at great price points and then it was like they just quit caring about anything other than contrast, except for the eshift which is just a feature for drawing in those that are on the fence about true 4k, IMO. They used to make it a purpose to produce a product that truly outperform the others. Now their 3D is well behind even most of the cheapest of models, lamps and brightness are nowhere near what they should be when compared to rivals. I absolutely love my RS1x that outperforms anything in its price range across the board in my opion, but every since I've started wanting to upgrade it the newer models have had more problems than an AA/NA meeting. One would think that a company that only has R&D with pretty much one technology would get it right with all the problems that keep recurring throughout the next models. I just really dont get it at all. If they want to develope a 3D pj then they should do it right or just stick to an awesome 2D pj that really cant be touched by its rivals. Its obvious the 3D on every JVC pj is really lacking compared to its competitors and even the lower priced brands. They should use lamps that are equivalent to what they used to use, hell I could use a lamp for well over 1500 hrs no problem at all. To me something has really changed the way things are run in corp but thats just me. I havent done any research because none of their pjs have been worth upgrading to in quite a while when looking back at their track history in the business. I thought that maybe using two RS45s would be a good solution for its brightness and crosstalk issues for a while but that even turned me off. Bottom line is the company isnt what it was 4 or 5 years ago for some reason. I've been waiting and waiting for a new release from them that will prove they are still trying to be on top in this business but it hasnt even come close to happening! Please excuse this rant but I'm sure I'm not the only one of many that truly feel this way! I thought I would be a JVC pj guy for life since they are one of the only companies that truly have one technology to make work the best that they can and it seems like they dont even try to fix their ongoing problems. Once they get back to making the pjs of old I'll be right back on their bandwagon that I jumped straight off head first. I think it may have started when the best parts were used to make the select pjs for sales gimmick or whatever that might have been called. Point is they were the same parts as in the other pjs but just inspected to make sure they were working properly. What kind of crap is that? I'm done and really hope they make a strong surge with the 3D crosstalk and lamps. Then I'll be right back in line waiting for one to arrive at the door.

I can only report on the last two years. The RS40 I had last year is really good and I didn't not have a problem with 3D. It was more like a bonus in my opinion. Members who had the RS20 stated that the RS40 was a better 2D projector. Then, if you add a Lumagen mini3, .it out performed the higher end models. I sure the bulb problems were the first last year. Now I have a RS55, and it is amazing. It out performs the RS35, which was the best under $10,000 that was made by JVC. It's brighter than the other generations. 3D still isn't great by most, but I'm not really into 3D. You said that they should just focus on 2D if they do not want to do 3D right, and I think they are not sacrificing 2D to make 3D better. Reports still say its the best 2D, but that's just reports. I can only go off of what I have.
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post #26 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 02:16 AM
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I can only report on the last two years. The RS40 I had last year is really good and I didn't not have a problem with 3D. It was more like a bonus in my opinion. Members who had the RS20 stated that the RS40 was a better 2D projector. Then, if you add a Lumagen mini3, .it out performed the higher end models. I sure the bulb problems were the first last year. Now I have a RS55, and it is amazing. It out performs the RS35, which was the best under $10,000 that was made by JVC. It's brighter than the other generations. 3D still isn't great by most, but I'm not really into 3D. You said that they should just focus on 2D if they do not want to do 3D right, and I think they are not sacrificing 2D to make 3D better. Reports still say its the best 2D, but that's just reports. I can only go off of what I have.

1+
I agree.
If someone wants great 3D. Buy a 3D projector. This is the only way you'll have your cake and eat it too. There are no one solution projectors that can do everything right or the best.

Hopefully the new lamps will have better longevity. Only time will tell.
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post #27 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 02:20 AM
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I watched Hugo in 3D last night on the X30 (UK) and it looked amazing, so much better and comfortable on the eyes compared to the cinema.
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post #28 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 10:11 AM
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So, where already talking about next years models.


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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I just dont know what JVC has been doing in the past 3+ years. They were producing the very best all around pjs at great price points and then it was like they just quit caring about anything other than contrast, except for the eshift which is just a feature for drawing in those that are on the fence about true 4k, IMO. They used to make it a purpose to produce a product that truly outperform the others. Now their 3D is well behind even most of the cheapest of models, lamps and brightness are nowhere near what they should be when compared to rivals. I absolutely love my RS1x that outperforms anything in its price range across the board in my opion, but every since I've started wanting to upgrade it the newer models have had more problems than an AA/NA meeting. One would think that a company that only has R&D with pretty much one technology would get it right with all the problems that keep recurring throughout the next models. I just really dont get it at all. If they want to develope a 3D pj then they should do it right or just stick to an awesome 2D pj that really cant be touched by its rivals. Its obvious the 3D on every JVC pj is really lacking compared to its competitors and even the lower priced brands. They should use lamps that are equivalent to what they used to use, hell I could use a lamp for well over 1500 hrs no problem at all. To me something has really changed the way things are run in corp but thats just me. I havent done any research because none of their pjs have been worth upgrading to in quite a while when looking back at their track history in the business. I thought that maybe using two RS45s would be a good solution for its brightness and crosstalk issues for a while but that even turned me off. Bottom line is the company isnt what it was 4 or 5 years ago for some reason. I've been waiting and waiting for a new release from them that will prove they are still trying to be on top in this business but it hasnt even come close to happening! Please excuse this rant but I'm sure I'm not the only one of many that truly feel this way! I thought I would be a JVC pj guy for life since they are one of the only companies that truly have one technology to make work the best that they can and it seems like they dont even try to fix their ongoing problems. Once they get back to making the pjs of old I'll be right back on their bandwagon that I jumped straight off head first. I think it may have started when the best parts were used to make the select pjs for sales gimmick or whatever that might have been called. Point is they were the same parts as in the other pjs but just inspected to make sure they were working properly. What kind of crap is that? I'm done and really hope they make a strong surge with the 3D crosstalk and lamps. Then I'll be right back in line waiting for one to arrive at the door.

Have you seen the newer JVCs or are you going off bro-science? How much did you pay for your JVC? In the last two years, JVC has reduced the price of the entry model. The 45 is now less than $3k from AVS. You could buy a lot of bulbs for the price difference.

As Ron has pointed out, there are reasons why JVC hasn't gotten better 3D performance. To be honest, anything outside of DLP looks like crap to me in 3D. What each individual needs to determine is his minimum threshold for various performance criteria. For some only the on/off cr of the JVC will do, while for others the reduced on/off cr but slightly better 3D of the Sonys is their minimum threshold.

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post #29 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 10:34 AM
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Is JVC not coming out with a new model the RS4800?? I just saw an online article about it via CEDIA. Some slight upgrades, etc. Anyone else see this??

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post #30 of 38 Old 04-12-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

So, where already talking about next years models.




Have you seen the newer JVCs or are you going off bro-science? How much did you pay for your JVC? In the last two years, JVC has reduced the price of the entry model. The 45 is now less than $3k from AVS. You could buy a lot of bulbs for the price difference.

As Ron has pointed out, there are reasons why JVC hasn't gotten better 3D performance. To be honest, anything outside of DLP looks like crap to me in 3D. What each individual needs to determine is his minimum threshold for various performance criteria. For some only the on/off cr of the JVC will do, while for others the reduced on/off cr but slightly better 3D of the Sonys is their minimum threshold.

No, I actually havent seen any of the last three years models but I didnt have the need to upgrade until 3 or so years ago and that was when the parts issue was going on. Then the lamp failure was after that along with major crosstalk compared to some others. Then the bulb issue this past year is much better but still not nearly as good as it once was and the crosstalk is just a tad better from almost every review. I didnt pay much for the RS1x new, like 4500 maybe. And, I understand that for that price I'd be getting a much better pj but could get a different brand with less issues as well.

I just had to let my frustrations out with JVC is all. They are capable of making a better pj than they are but arent really jumping to the top like they used to. It used to be clear cut but now its only clear cut for 2D and that is pleanty for some.
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