sony vpl-vw95es sxrd vs JVC DLA-RS55U - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 04-24-2012, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been living with a JVC DLA RS-2 for the last 5 years and have decided to upgrade to the latest technology. I've narrowed my choices down to these two models. My screen is 106" diagonal and the projector is ceiling mounted 16.5' from the screen and dead center to the screen. I'm leaning towards the Sony model since it comes with the 3D equipment and is a bit less pricey. But I'm concerned about the brightness. My video room is not light controlled. For daytime viewing I have a 65" Panasonic plasma. I guess my question is, at my screen to projector distance, is the Sony going to be bright enough?
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post #2 of 36 Old 04-24-2012, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fperra View Post

I've been living with a JVC DLA RS-2 for the last 5 years and have decided to upgrade to the latest technology. I've narrowed my choices down to these two models. My screen is 106" diagonal and the projector is ceiling mounted 16.5' from the screen and dead center to the screen. I'm leaning towards the Sony model since it comes with the 3D equipment and is a bit less pricey. But I'm concerned about the brightness. My video room is not light controlled. For daytime viewing I have a 65" Panasonic plasma. I guess my question is, at my screen to projector distance, is the Sony going to be bright enough?

What is the gain of your screen? the VW95 can throw a 106" diagonal at 16.488 feet max. If the screen is only 1.0 gain, you will be wanting a new lamp, long before you have reached expected lamp life. If your screen is 1.0 gain, I would move the projector up to mid zoom and then you would be in good shape. If we can help you work through some of this, drop us a line.

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post #3 of 36 Old 04-24-2012, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. Thats what I was concerned about. I guess I'll stick with the JVC RS55. Or should I stick with my DLA-RS2 and wait another year to upgrade? Will there be that much difference between the RS2 and RS55?
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post #4 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 01:23 AM
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The Sony 95 will be MUCH brighter than the RS2 and about the same as the RS55.

Both the RS55 and VW95 will be plenty bright in 2D. In 3D you always want more light. However, the RS55 is not a good 3D performer and I would not choose this PJ if 3D is important. The Sony is better but there are better options still for 3D (e.g. Epson). However, that would also mean a step-down in 2D quality.
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post #5 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

What is the gain of your screen? the VW95 can throw a 106" diagonal at 16.488 feet max. If the screen is only 1.0 gain, you will be wanting a new lamp, long before you have reached expected lamp life. If your screen is 1.0 gain, I would move the projector up to mid zoom and then you would be in good shape. If we can help you work through some of this, drop us a line.

Of course with JVC you may be needing a new lamp even sooner.

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post #6 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

The Sony 95 will be MUCH brighter than the RS2 and about the same as the RS55.

Both the RS55 and VW95 will be plenty bright in 2D. In 3D you always want more light. However, the RS55 is not a good 3D performer and I would not choose this PJ if 3D is important. The Sony is better but there are better options still for 3D (e.g. Epson). However, that would also mean a step-down in 2D quality.

I had both side by side and for 3D it is an easy pick taking the 95. Both are close with 2D but motion and sports are better on the 95.

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post #7 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fperra View Post

Thanks. Thats what I was concerned about. I guess I'll stick with the JVC RS55. Or should I stick with my DLA-RS2 and wait another year to upgrade? Will there be that much difference between the RS2 and RS55?

I upgraded RS2 to RS40 (called DLA-X3 here) last year. If I were you, I'd keep the RS2 until november or so to see what new is coming. Like other have said RS55 was not a huge success when compared to previous generation (specially with 3D, where depending on unit variance it may actually be a step back from RS40 or RS50). We're about 4-5 months from spec release of new generation, the projectors should hit retail channels around november. Going to Epson or similar you will lose some 2D characteristics, even compared to your old trusty RS2.

I was actually planning to upgrade the X3 to RS55 (X70) based on the early info/marketing (crosstalk cancellation, e-shift), but since new generation fell quite short in terms of 3D I decided to wait another year.
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post #8 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the responses. I think I'll stick with my RS2 for another year.
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-25-2012, 05:06 PM
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Yeah, I have an RS2 that i've had for about 4-5 years now and I've kind of been asking some of the same things you've asked in this post!! I narrowed my would be choices to an RS55, Sony 95ES. But, ultimately I think I'm going to sit on the RS2 for another year or so. It has a great picture and has never let me down. To me, some of the best black levels Ive seen with a digital projector. I would want a better 2D picture first and foremost over my RS2, 3D is secondary IMO. But, I would do it some and would want a decent picture. And I'm not in a position to have two or three projectors sitting around.

So, the RS2 it is for a while longer.........

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post #10 of 36 Old 04-26-2012, 10:54 AM
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I am curious about this as well. I have the sony hw30 and love almost everything about it. Motion is great, no lag for gaming, bright in 2d and 3d, etc. but the black level is not that good.

I would go with the jvc, but I game probably 70% of the time, and I like the sony with game mode.

Comparing black level between the sony hw30, sony vw95, and jvc x series, how do these look?
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post #11 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 06:22 AM
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i guess i should also say that i sit about 12 feet back from a 133" 16X9 Dalite high power 2.4 screen.
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post #12 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 10:49 AM
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Had an RS2, then the RS20 and now VW95. After having 200 hrs on the sony and professional calibration the black level and shadow detail as well as the brightness are leaps and bounds ahead of my RS20 with 330 hrs. And the motion blur that was driving me nuts on the rs20 is gone on the vw95.
To be fair the rs20 was only calibrated using the HD Essentials disc without measuring equipment, so I'm expecting the black level/shadow details would have improved some if professionally calibrated, but it would not have eliminated the motion blur inherent in lcos, jvc more so than sony. My screen is 1.1 gain 120x51 for scope and 91x51 for 16:9. Many have reported that motion handling of jvc in the new models is very close to the sony and most report that sony black levels never leave wanting. I would be surprised though if anyone could distinguish which projector had the better black level if not doing A/B comparison.
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post #13 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I am curious about this as well. I have the sony hw30 and love almost everything about it. Motion is great, no lag for gaming, bright in 2d and 3d, etc. but the black level is not that good.

I would go with the jvc, but I game probably 70% of the time, and I like the sony with game mode.

Comparing black level between the sony hw30, sony vw95, and jvc x series, how do these look?

If gaming is your thing and you want much better blacks, I would suggest the sony vw95. The vw95's black levels are on par with the JVC RS45. The RS55 has the best black levels (well aside from the RS65) and therefore is the best for watching 2d movies. The vw95's native motion and frame interpolation are noticeably better than the jvcs, which is why gaming is great on it. Although, a casual gamer will be satisfied with the jvcs i believe. The RS55 would be my pick since I love movies. The motion is pretty darn good on the RS55 as well.
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post #14 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

If gaming is your thing and you want much better blacks, I would suggest the sony vw95. The vw95's black levels are on par with the JVC RS45. The RS55 has the best black levels (well aside from the RS65) and therefore is the best for watching 2d movies. The vw95's native motion and frame interpolation are noticeably better than the jvcs, which is why gaming is great on it. Although, a casual gamer will be satisfied with the jvcs i believe. The RS55 would be my pick since I love movies. The motion is pretty darn good on the RS55 as well.

I've never seen a measurement that would substantiate this statement. From every measurement I can possible find, the VW95s contrast is half that of the RS45. Now I'm not saying the VW95 is bad by any means. It's just not as on par as you make it seem.The highest Kris Deering measured the VW95 was at 19,500:1 using the dynamic Iris. The lowest he measurement the JVC x30/RS45 was 22,500:1 with no aperture engaged.
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I've never seen a measurement that would substantiate this statement. From every measurement I can possible find, the VW95s contrast is half that of the RS45. Now I'm not saying the VW95 is bad by any means. It's just not as on par as you make it seem.The highest Kris Deering measured the VW95 was at 19,500:1 using the dynamic Iris. The lowest he measurement the JVC x30/RS45 was 22,500:1 with no aperture engaged.

I don't doubt that the RS45 has better contrast than the VW95, but I've read the entire VW95 thread and the majority of users are saying the VW95 has close to very close black levels compared to the RS40/45. The 45 may be better but the difference it seems, from what I've read, is minimal.
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post #16 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I don't doubt that the RS45 has better contrast than the VW95, but I've read the entire VW95 thread and the majority of users are saying the VW95 has close to very close black levels compared to the RS40/45. The 45 may be better but the difference it seems, from what I've read, is minimal.

If I paid nearly double for half the native contrast ..I would say the same thing.
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post #17 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 06:01 PM
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Cine4 measured the VW95 d65 calibrated at 13K:1 open, 20K:1 closed, 84K:1 dynamic all min zoom 680 lumens.

Cine4 measured the X70/RS55 d65 calibrated at 69K:1 iris closed min zoom 310 lumens.

Anyone who has A/B double blnd compared the VW95 and the X55 would have a very hard time telling them apart as far as just dark scene contrast on most program material.
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post #18 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 06:25 PM
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I am no longer convinced that blacks are the end all to be all. After seeing the Epson 6010 - which has very good blacks - I realized there are other elements of the PQ that are just as -if not - more important to me.

Having deep blacks and motion blur, flat image, color saturation issues, etc wouldn't do it for me.

No, I am not saying the JVC has these things. (Not trying to start a flame war!).. I am just saying that if 2 machines were 100% identical besides the blacks- then of course go with one with the deeper blacks.. I am just finding that no 2 machines are really 100% identical. Every machine has its own unique PQ... My opinion is to go with the image that is most pleasing to the eye - and forget the Contrast Ratio specs.

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post #19 of 36 Old 04-27-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Cine4 measured the VW95 d65 calibrated at 13K:1 open, 20K:1 closed, 84K:1 dynamic all min zoom 680 lumens.

Cine4 measured the X70/RS55 d65 calibrated at 69K:1 iris closed min zoom 310 lumens.

Anyone who has A/B double blnd compared the VW95 and the X55 would have a very hard time telling them apart as far as just dark scene contrast on most program material.

True, until you get to those low light/dynamic scenes with candle light or something similar.

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I am no longer convinced that blacks are the end all to be all. After seeing the Epson 6010 - which has very good blacks - I realized there are other elements of the PQ that are just as -if not - more important to me.

Having deep blacks and motion blur, flat image, color saturation issues, etc wouldn't do it for me.

No, I am not saying the JVC has these things. (Not trying to start a flame war!).. I am just saying that if 2 machines were 100% identical besides the blacks- then of course go with one with the deeper blacks.. I am just finding that no 2 machines are really 100% identical. Every machine has its own unique PQ... My opinion is to go with the image that is most pleasing to the eye - and forget the Contrast Ratio specs.

I agree with you to an extent. Just don't judge everything on what you see with the Epson. Dynamic Irises as good as some of them are. Do have an affect on those dimly lit scenes. The Iris causes the bright parts of those scenes to be a little dimmer than a projector that doesn't use one.

You won't know what's missing until you experience it. Don't exclude truly great contrast until you see it. However, I'm with you on getting what looks good too you.
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post #20 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 08:43 AM
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Joesyah, true. It seems so difficult to chose a PJ nowadays.
1) A large # of them can't be seen in person locally
2) Many are not calibrated (or at least not correctly)
3) Many are paired with a non-optimal screen
4) Many are shown in a less than ideal environment

So how are we supposed to make a decision on how to spend our hard earned cash? Specs? people's personal opinion in this forum? Other reviews? Dealer experiences and comments? A little of all, I suspect.

Right now, I have seen the Sony 1000 and Sony PJs in my local theater. Both which extremely impressed me (to put it mildly), and both out of my price range. Based on this, is the V95 my best option? I think so.... but still buying 'in the dark' - so to speak.

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post #21 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jkirby View Post


So how are we supposed to make a decision on how to spend our hard earned cash? Specs? people's personal opinion in this forum? Other reviews? Dealer experiences and comments? A little of all, I suspect.

Right now, I have seen the Sony 1000 and Sony PJs in my local theater. Both which extremely impressed me (to put it mildly), and both out of my price range. Based on this, is the V95 my best option? I think so.... but still buying 'in the dark' - so to speak.

it depends on how obsessed you are with black levels. I am a fan of dark sci-fi movies and use a high power screen. I want the lowest black floor possible since the HP elevates all light equally. For my preferences this is the RS55. Most trusted reviewers have stated that the VW95 is close, but cannot match the RS55 with dark content where the iris can only do so much. For the majority of other folks watching regular content, it will be close enough.

I also have a large screen (142") and sit relatively close. The e-shift is excellent for this setup and another advantage for the RS55. On the flip side, the Sony lamps are nearly 1/2 the price of the JVC and the 3D will be better on the Sony as well.

A best of both worlds setup on a budget would be the RS45 for 2D and the BenQ W7000 for 3D.
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post #22 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 01:25 PM
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With such an emphasis on black level importance I've been quite puzzled by owners of the 3 chip DLP who commonly admit that the black levels of the DC4 chip aren't nearly as low as the lcos, but they say that the image regardless has more depth, pop, etc. that to them trumps deeper blacks for total picture quality/enjoyment. Needless to say, most of those pjs are at least a factor of 6 or more in cost to the lcos machines. Even the impressive VW1000, with its 4K upscaling, brightness, and lcos black levels hasn't persuaded a few of the owners of the 3 chip DLP to 'upgrade' after viewing it. What is truly impressive though when reading the DLP owners comments is that a lcos pj at probably half the cost of thier 3 chippers has given them serious pause even if they continue to prefer the dlp. Maybe they don't watch a lot of dark movies, have humongous screen sizes or watch a lot of sports where the lack of any motion problems and brigthness of such machines does make it the hands down better tech.
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post #23 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 05:32 PM
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With such an emphasis on black level importance I've been quite puzzled by owners of the 3 chip DLP who commonly admit that the black levels of the DC4 chip aren't nearly as low as the lcos, but they say that the image regardless has more depth, pop, etc. that to them trumps deeper blacks for total picture quality/enjoyment. Needless to say, most of those pjs are at least a factor of 6 or more in cost to the lcos machines. Even the impressive VW1000, with its 4K upscaling, brightness, and lcos black levels hasn't persuaded a few of the owners of the 3 chip DLP to 'upgrade' after viewing it. What is truly impressive though when reading the DLP owners comments is that a lcos pj at probably half the cost of thier 3 chippers has given them serious pause even if they continue to prefer the dlp. Maybe they don't watch a lot of dark movies, have humongous screen sizes or watch a lot of sports where the lack of any motion problems and brigthness of such machines does make it the hands down better tech.

As you've touched on, it could be just the individual's viewing habits. Like Zombie..I watch a lot of sci-fi movies and TV shows. So black levels and contrast are very important too me. A person with a huge screen may need the type of brightness lcos projectors can't provide. This also means they accept the hit in contrast to gain it.

I've seen a couple of DLPs that looked fantastic! Not until trying a JVC did I realize how fatigued my eyes were with them. I can understand the more "pop factor" in bright scenes with certain DLPs. In the mixed and darker scenes JVC and Sony LCOS rules IMO. Sherlock Holmes has never looked better!

As Zombie states..if it were feasible I'd probably own both techs for different purposes...wait a minute.. I already do.
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post #24 of 36 Old 04-28-2012, 06:03 PM
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I own an RS2 as well and the RS65 is almost there. I'm still going to hold out for LED or LASER drive though. Hopefully next year. The Widescreen Review covered the 65 last issue and they were very impressed.
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If some one here needs to try both in order to decide which one to buy and keep, give us a call.
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post #26 of 36 Old 04-29-2012, 01:03 PM
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I own an RS2 as well and the RS65 is almost there. I'm still going to hold out for LED or LASER drive though. Hopefully next year. The Widescreen Review covered the 65 last issue and they were very impressed.

With RED pushing the price envelope on a laser AND 4K with expected release next year, you know that JVC/Sony will be hot the heels with a laser / led and likely at competitive pricing. If I hadn't convinced myself I HAD to upgrade this year I too would be sitting on the fence to see where things shake out. Probably all of us with a lcos machine are hoping( or at least wishful thinking) for a laser driven lcos with the potential of high lumens like the 3 chip dlps, dlp sharpness, with the black levels of a RS65 and all for sub $10K !
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post #27 of 36 Old 04-29-2012, 03:05 PM
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With RED pushing the price envelope on a laser AND 4K with expected release next year, you know that JVC/Sony will be hot the heels with a laser / led and likely at competitive pricing. If I hadn't convinced myself I HAD to upgrade this year I too would be sitting on the fence to see where things shake out. Probably all of us with a lcos machine are hoping( or at least wishful thinking) for a laser driven lcos with the potential of high lumens like the 3 chip dlps, dlp sharpness, with the black levels of a RS65 and all for sub $10K !

Always something to keep extracting any 'disposable' cash we may have lying around.
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post #28 of 36 Old 04-29-2012, 05:59 PM
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Always something to keep extracting any 'disposable' cash we may have lying around.

Steve Miller Band said it best...Retirement keeps on slippin', slippin', slippin'
Into the future... well, I changed the words a bit.
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post #29 of 36 Old 04-30-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone know how the Epson 6010 would match up to my RS2? For 2D viewing would it be much of an improvement in a non light controlled setting?
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post #30 of 36 Old 04-30-2012, 01:30 PM
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The 6010 is going to be noticeably brighter than the RS2, especially if you use the 'living room mode' which can crank out the lumens at the expense of color accuracy (usually a push towards green).

In cinema mode, blacks should be comparable for most content. The 5010/6010 are nice, balanced projectors that also have the brightest 3D modes of the current models.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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