A couple questions on projector for room choice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Good day AVSers!

Ive recently bought my first home after living in apartments and places where i couldnt drill holes for the last 8 years! But i have a dilemma. My old Mitsubishi 57732 which still has a brilliant picture, which was also WAY to big for the 5-8 ft viewing distances ive had in each of those locations is looking a weeeee bit small in the new place. The living room/kitchen/dining runs the length of the house separated by a fireplace right in the middle.



the living room section is 19.5 ft wide and then about another 15 to the fireplace from the front door. Those beams are 4ft apart.



So viewing the ole 57" at a distance of 17ft.....is well you guys have projectors so you know it's just inadequate. Ive been researching like crazy here. From the calcs and reviews on projector central, to the projector calc written by one of our members.
And for the first time ever this still is just a little over my head. I'm looking at spending around $4k with projector and screen.

So here's my problem. I Have a viewing distance of 18 ft from couch to wall and i cant really move one closer to the other without making the room look very cluttered. I have the wall space for a screen 70inches tall and 150 wide. Which a 135 16:9 would fit well and a 170" 2.35:1 would fit even better. According to a lot of screen size calcs that's about right for my 117-18ft viewing distance. Do i need it this big? No do i want it? OH YES.

But from everything ive read about anything on the current market around my price range, shooting anything over 110, especially in 3d(not a priority) is just going to be way to low on the light.

My room isnt light controlled by any means. No super dark blcak out curtains, and the walls are all white, but im in the middle of no where so the only light ive got is in the house or the moon. I almost always watch movies after dark(usually midnight and way too loud since i dont have any neighbors close enough to hear it) so ambient light isn't a huge issue.

I really like the Sony HW30 from the reviews ive read, but all the calcs say about 100" is about all im gonna get at normal gain and trying to hit 3d at my 150 or so is just wishful thinking.

Sorry for the lengthy read, but ive been searching like crazy over the last few weeks and I just cant seem to find a good example of what im trying to accomplish. Most just have a dedicated room and move the seats further forward. Help and thank you!
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post #2 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 09:04 AM
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Where are you planning on mounting the projector?

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post #3 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 09:13 AM
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Even with no other light, the white walls will reflect light from the screen back onto the picture and wash it out considerably. Consider painting them a darker color.
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 10:11 AM
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In all honesty I would put a cheap TV in that room and pick another room in the house to make a dedicated home theater!

It’s going to be hard to project in that room, and painting your main living area a dark color, which is amazing by the way, would only detract from its beauty.

If you did it, I would get a light cannon of a projector and unless you had $3000+ to throw at a screen stop in the DIY screen section of the forum for a grey screen paint formula to help combat all the reflecting light you're going to get.

While painting the entire area would be a bad idea, I would consider painting the area just above the screen on the ceiling, and you could test the effects of this by purchasing a few black bed sheets and tacking them up above the screen.

You would also want to pick up a really dark area rug that would span the length of the screen and place that on the floor, those tiles are light colored and I can almost see my face in them from here.

Making a screen that huge is going to be your biggest downfall unless you had serious cash to throw at a projector. The bigger your screen gets the more washed out the image will look as well from the light bouncing around the room.
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post #5 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batutta View Post

Even with no other light, the white walls will reflect light from the screen back onto the picture and wash it out considerably. Consider painting them a darker color.

Yes! Flat black would be best
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post #6 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah i dont think painting would work given that the wall spans all the way to the other side of the house, and though it looks huge there's just 3 more bedrooms that would be too small for a dedicated besides mine! but i guess if i got some theater seats the pulled out to a bed that would be perfectly fine haha!


here's a better picture of how it looks now. Forgive the mess, i'm still moving in and a friend of mine just joined me so we're trying to figure out where to put all of our stuff and NINE couches



I would be ceiling mounting the projector more than likely centered between those two middle beams. as long as im infront of or behind the fan it should be ok. As far as getting another TV. i'm just not a fan of the price vs. screen real estate and quality these days.

Bumping down to a 100 inch wouldnt be a huge deal. I just feel like i want to utilize all the space on the wall that i have for total immersion. The way the completely open room fills up with bass is incredible though. I'm loving that.
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post #7 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 03:25 PM
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Put a rug where the TV is now, paint the ceiling between the beams direclty above the screen, paint the wall to the left and get some curtains that allow for blacking out of the light (in case you want to watch when the suns going down or on the weekends!). The darker the paint, the less sheen the better (flat black being the best).

If you make it that far you can re-evaluate how it looks. Certain expensive prebuilt screens can assist with directing the image directly back towards the viewer instead of scattering the light out as much towards the ceiling and walls.

If you are on a resonable budget after buying a nice projector you can first try mixing up a ~$100 paint formula (designed to combat ambient and reflected light) and spraying it on the wall directly after you mask off the area of the screen which requires some DIY talent but is easily doable if you take your time and follow directions.
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post #8 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 03:25 PM
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If I understand correctly, the screen will be replacing the spot where the TV currently sits in that pic?

The wall itself (where the screen is) won't be the main offender of ambient light (since the light bounces off the screen and goes back), it will reflect some, but the main thing to worry about will be the side wall and the floor, then the ceiling. Get a very large dark rug as the other poster said, and then replace those pink curtains with something much darker and larger that goes nearly all the way to the door. The fact you have a dark door is good to combine with the curtains to block more reflected light.

Having a vaulted ceiling helps some as well (although from this pic not that much because your vaulted angle isn't that extreme). However, overall you are actually lucky with that ceiling design, you do not need to paint it (though painting is the best). Another alternative to deal with the ceiling, you can get some kind of ceiling drapery and create a dark traditional look to the ceiling. Because of the vaulted design of your ceiling with the wooden beams, there is actually a standard decorating design that allows a drapery thing to be hung across the ceiling to each beam to the next (kind of hard to explain). It is basically hanging dark curtain like things that are made to hang from the ceiling. They use them in weddings, but you would do it differently (more traditional and darker). You can even do it cheap with rugged thick sheets and it won't look bad (but it is a bit hard to get it just right).


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post #9 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I know exactly what you mean with the curtains up top. That would be easy enough to actually make some to run up on wires with some pulleys. and the more drapery/rugs the more the audio reflection is going to go down. I wouldnt want to paint them because they are actually tiles, which i found very unusual for such an updated house.

my main question now is just if the light is controlled enough to make it pitch black in here (i'm moving all the equipment under the tv to the closet too since i already have a harmony 900) is can most of these midrange projectors actually put the light out to something that size. I don't feel like that would be too large at all for the viewing distance. I'm mostly concerned with 2d but the capability to do 3d at that size would be a nice extra.

So i guess that's all im wondering. Is 150 just to big for something along the lines of those in zombie's review?
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post #10 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 05:22 PM
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I wouldn't paint the ceiling either.

How about making some acoustic panels to fit between the beams and cover them in black cloth (burlap, speaker grill cloth, etc)??

Try some small wire to suspend them from the beams and use small fasteners and find a way to hide them.
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post #11 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abide View Post


So i guess that's all im wondering. Is 150 just to big for something along the lines of those in zombie's review?

The Epson 5010 can do a 150" in torch mode which is near D65, though there are some side effects (slightly noisier image, worse sat tracking, gamma bumps, IRIS isn't as smooth). Most people wouldn't notice it that much, because the color itself is pretty close even in torch mode. However, don't expect to get as long of lamp life if you go this big and use the projector in torch mode on the Epson. Forget the Sony if going for a 150", unless you do an HP 2.4 gain screen or similar, or you could DIY your own high gain screen from the screen forums. Also, 3D won't be bright enough at 150" even on the Epson 5010 unless you had at least say 1.5+ to 2.0+ gain (and even then a smaller screen would be brighter in 3D, but that should at least make it ok).

Accoustical panels would probably work, but it might get REALLY expensive depending on what type of ones you buy, because your ceiling is pretty big. I would temporarily tack nice dark brown or black sheets to the ceiling between the beams (until you decide what to do as a permanent solution). I have black sheets tacked in my living room, and it doesn't look great, but not terrible either. It would look better in your room though because I have a flat ceiling, and tacked drapes or sheets looks much more normal on your ceiling design than a flat one.


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post #12 of 18 Old 05-11-2012, 09:20 PM
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Ceiling is plenty high enough, that it is not a big problem. A projector will work fine in that room during the night time. Of course darker would be better, but it will work okay. I have a family room set up with a high ceiling and walls so light a gray, that they look white in pictures. On the end with the projector set up, I have two windows like this: http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...m/P1000506.jpg Those two windows do not represent half the glass area in that room. Now I do not have any shades, so I only use the projector in that room at night. I have a low lumen Marantz projector in that room shooting onto a 106" High Power screen and at night time the image is very good. Picture with the screen down. http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...m/P1000636.jpg

Night time is easy in that room. It is during the day, where it is a problem. The easiest solution would be to cover the windows and use a specialty screen like a Black Diamond or DNP supernova. Then with a little work covering the windows, you would be able to use your system during the day. Problem is, you are not going to get a large Black Diamond screen and a projector at your budget. The screen alone will eat most of your budget. I have played with the Black Diamond screen in my own home. here is a pic of it sitting on the floor in front of my curved AT screen. http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/f...hoto/001-2.jpg If we can help you, let us know.

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post #13 of 18 Old 05-12-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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mother of god that's some window! Yeah the black diamonds are up there for sure. I'm quite the DIYer so building a screen or two isnt a huge issue. Or purchasing something midrange.

Any thoughts on just scaling the image down? Maybe to a 120 or 100? I know it would obviously provide a better picture as well as cost less and it would still look huge in comparison to any tv. Would i still get that incredible immersion feeling sitting nearly 20ft away though?
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post #14 of 18 Old 05-12-2012, 04:36 PM
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Rather than just have dark curtains over the window, you could have the curtains cover the entire left wall, pulling them back when not in HT mode so that the white walls and window lighten up the room. And yes, the curtains will also help the acoustics.
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post #15 of 18 Old 05-13-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abide View Post

here's a better picture of how it looks now. Forgive the mess, i'm still moving in and a friend of mine just joined me so we're trying to figure out where to put all of our stuff and NINE couches



here's one idea for that space which is similar to my setup. I have a 142" 16:9 Dalite High Power Cinema Contour. It's the older 2.8 gain material, but they currently offer the 2.4 which is also a nice screen. I've installed a number of these recently for friends.

With the high power, the closer the projector is to you eye level, the brighter the image is going to appear to your eyes.

I could see a 150" 2.4 16:9 HP with a table/stand mounted projector. The projector can aim center between a 4 or 6 set of curved theater seats, about 6" above eye level. This setup, combined with the Epson 5010's 'living room mode' will allow for acceptable viewing with some ambient light and you can run it in a lower lumen, color correct cinema mode for best quality viewing at night time for watching BD's.

The 5010's 3D torch mode @ 1400 D65 lumens can light up that sized HP for good 3D viewing. Turn it up all the way to 2000 lumens for the 3D animations. The colors are off a bit, but the brightness is great with the HP.

You'd have to deal with running cables across the floor, but there's plenty of cable management products to hide the wiring. It might be easier than trying to wiring that high ceiling with power and a long HDMI cable.
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post #16 of 18 Old 05-13-2012, 12:02 PM
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Here is another potential idea for shelf mounting if he wants to go that route:

A real simple way to manage and install projector(s), and still very decent looking aesthetically which works for CERTAIN rooms (looks like his room would work with this design)...

The way I do shelf mounting is I have a black wire shelf ($70 at Walmart) sitting near the back wall. The main issue with table and shelf mounting is you need to make sure (i) the projector is safe from bumping and spills, (ii) the projector has enough room for ventilation, and (iii) the wiring does not get in the way. Since my JVC is so huge and long and the shelf not deep enough, I did have to place a little "metal extender platform" under the JVC (most PJ's fit without doing this). This setup works much better than bookshelves because wire shelves are open and adjustable. I changed my setup to this because I was tired of changing projectors and re-doing mounting and stuff. This setup also maximizes ventilation.

On the wire shelves, since each of the (5) shelves are individually adjustable in 1-inch increments to height, then you can get your projector(s) installed at exactly the correct height. The Walmart one comes with 5 shelves and are 6 feet high at the top, so I have a DLP on a custom mount framed and extended from the top shelf (which makes the DLP sit at about 8 feet), the JVC on the second-to-top shelf (at just under 6 feet high), and ALL the A/V equipment on the bottom shelves, and some decoration and plants in the middle shelf (which hides the look). Since the shelves are like swiss cheese, wiring doesn't get any easier than this and it is virtually 100% invisible. I can fit up to 4-6 projectors in one space this way pretty easily for A/B'n as well depending on lens shift and what not. I can safely turn on 2-3 projectors at the same time without the heat mixing together for A/B if I wish.

Since the projectors and all A/V equipment are on the same shelf on the back wall, this greatly simplifies the installation. All cabling is done right there to both projectors from the switching and A/V equipment, the only cables you have to run anywhere is either a single HDMI wire back to the receiver (my receiver sits under my screen), or if you choose you can even put the receiver in the back with the other A/V equipment on the shelf, and then just run the speaker wires to the Front-speakers from the back shelf (no other cabling at all). This eliminates all potential HDMI cable length issues and makes it simpler to troubleshoot any given projector.

I then use a wireless IR Repeater that sits under my movie screen on top of my receiver that shoots the signal back to the A/V rack.

The JVC is about 18 feet back at about 6 feet high, and at that height it just clears the couch (9 feet back) and the people's heads when sitting down. It wouldn't clear a recliner though, but you could raise the PJ up another foot or so. I get 1.6 gain I believe with this setup on an Hp 2.4 gain screen (or something like that). This is the fastest and easiest installation possible with a projector IMHO. A UPS, HTPC, and A/V gear can sit on the bottom shelf and it is out-of-view. The bluray and other players sit on the second to bottom shelf so you don't have to bend over much when changing discs.


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post #17 of 18 Old 05-13-2012, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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shelf mounting would be stupid easy. the closet is just to the side of the seating position where i would transfer all the equipment to.

my only two concerns on there would be projector noise being 2-3 feet above the seating position. and a 16-18 ft throw dependent upon the length of projector and the screens offset from the wall. my couch is only about 3.5ft tall.

I'm going to have to play with your calculator quite a bit more before i decide on a projector i think. May just have to delay until i can expand the budget!

I really appreciate the help, suggestions, and research from you guys!
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-13-2012, 04:46 PM
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The Sony hw30 is quieter but not as bright, the Epson is louder and brighter.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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