Predictions for 2013 4K projectors - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I'm want 4k and I'm not old fart. I'm still under 30 LOL

I'm 23 and want 4K, The difference between you and I and others around our age and younger is that we are actually the outliers. Go ahead and ask some of your friends, co-workers, and others about 4K. They'll look at you like your hair is on fire or something. Most don't even know what the hell 4K is, let alone want it. I think the world is just getting comfortable with 1080p and these companies are going to have a hard time selling it to consumers who don't even know what it is or the kinds of benefits (if implemented properly) 4K can bring them. The one issue in my mind is size. Most people don't have enough room for a 84" UHDTV, let alone 120"+ projector screen. 4K needs to be bigger as the apparent benefits can really only be seen when it's bigger.
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post #272 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm 23 and want 4K, The difference between you and I and others around our age and younger is that we are actually the outliers. Go ahead and ask some of your friends, co-workers, and others about 4K. They'll look at you like your hair is on fire or something. Most don't even know what the hell 4K is, let alone want it. I think the world is just getting comfortable with 1080p and these companies are going to have a hard time selling it to consumers who don't even know what it is or the kinds of benefits (if implemented properly) 4K can bring them. The one issue in my mind is size. Most people don't have enough room for a 84" UHDTV, let alone 120"+ projector screen. 4K needs to be bigger as the apparent benefits can really only be seen when it's bigger.

I have the same experience as you. I have mentioned the term "4k" in several conversion with everyday friends and nobody has any idea what I am talking about. I would guess that 80% of the people who buy 1080P TVs today care zero about quality of the picture. They buy it because it is a flat screen (looks cool, saves space) and because that is all they can buy these days when they walk into a store. Most of my friends care less about spending their hard earned dollars on a HT stuff. They like it, they like coming to my house to use it but it is not a hobby of theirs like so many here on AVS. They care about HT as much as I care about getting fancy new shoes...not at all.
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post #273 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm 23 and want 4K, The difference between you and I and others around our age and younger is that we are actually the outliers. Go ahead and ask some of your friends, co-workers, and others about 4K. They'll look at you like your hair is on fire or something. Most don't even know what the hell 4K is, let alone want it. I think the world is just getting comfortable with 1080p and these companies are going to have a hard time selling it to consumers who don't even know what it is or the kinds of benefits (if implemented properly) 4K can bring them. The one issue in my mind is size. Most people don't have enough room for a 84" UHDTV, let alone 120"+ projector screen. 4K needs to be bigger as the apparent benefits can really only be seen when it's bigger.
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I have the same experience as you. I have mentioned the term "4k" in several conversion with everyday friends and nobody has any idea what I am talking about. I would guess that 80% of the people who buy 1080P TVs today care zero about quality of the picture. They buy it because it is a flat screen (looks cool, saves space) and because that is all they can buy these days when they walk into a store. Most of my friends care less about spending their hard earned dollars on a HT stuff. They like it, they like coming to my house to use it but it is not a hobby of theirs like so many here on AVS. They care about HT as much as I care about getting fancy new shoes...not at all.
I bet they'll be happier if they can play 1080p videos on the tiny screens of their cell phones.
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post #274 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 04:30 AM
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There are serious enthusiasts and casual users for all hobbies. How many have $3000 DSLR's and how many are content with images from their iPhone. Or sub $500 bicycles vs >$2000 road bikes. HT is no difference. Sadly I'm an old fart too but if I weren't I still be interested in 4K although at that age I was not in a financial position to spend the dough on high end anything. College costs a fortune now days.

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post #275 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 04:53 AM
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I have a funny story, I had my superbowl party and the game through halftime was on my Casio xj-a140, which is 1024x768. Then on the jvc RS48 after halftime. He said the Casio looked better and more natural. The Casio isn't even HD and while the JVC was using the Oppo 103 upscaled with the eshift. The jvc looked 20x better. I sold it to him after the superbowl and a spare 106in screen that I had. I'm still scratching my head about how he think that dull non HD projector looked better than my calibrated RS48
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post #276 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 04:58 AM
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A lot of the time it has to do with size and pixel density. The image on those tiny screens looks "sharper" because of how close the pixels are together and how much farther away in comparison you're sitting to a large screen with a projector. Plus you have to take into effect the really bad quality broadcast of the superbowl compared to a blu-ray. When you blow up an image that has macroblocking and compression noise through the roof no wonder why people think it looks better on the smaller screen.
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post #277 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 05:12 AM
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I don't think my 120in screen is tiny at all
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post #278 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 05:14 AM
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I assumed the Casio was a flat screen. But on that same topic, I've had many people tell me that HDTVs have always looked better to them compared to projector's they've seen.
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post #279 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I assumed the Casio was a flat screen. But on that same topic, I've had many people tell me that HDTVs have always looked better to them compared to projector's they've seen.
it's a cheap led projector. Only people on the forum tell me that tvs look better than projectors. I guess everyone has their opinions
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post #280 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 05:40 AM
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I would argue, without taking size into consideration, there are a handful of HDTV's, all of which are Plasma's, that have a fantastic picture that rival that of the best projectors. One thing they have down that no projector can match is ANSI contrast. Plasma's are pretty amazing in that regard. I've never seen an LCD HDTV and a went "WOW". There is just something about how they look that I can't get past. We recently bought a 52" Sharp LED LCD TV for Christmas for my father and I think it puts out a very ugly picture compared to all the projector's I've owned.

HDTVs are nice when you don't have the room for speakers and real screen. When I see people posting pictures of their "Home Theater" with their rather large floor standing speakers, subwoofers, surround sound speakers, and a full rack of equipment and then a tiny 50" TV on the wall I can't help but chuckle. There has never been a commercial theater that used a Flat Panel TV. David Bott posted a piece here last year saying we should start using the term "Home Cinema" to refer to our real home theaters. I think there's a loss in understanding about what a real home theater is. When I invite new people over to watch a movie at my house and I tell them I have a home theater they are always surprised to see that i have a projector and screen. My best friends who I have over all the time tell people that "He has a REAL theater".

As to your friend all you can tell yourself is that people have different tastes. To each his own I always say. I much prefer DLP in many regards over D-ILA and many people think I'm nuts and don't understand why. I just like they way it looks. I guess your friend is odd like me. tongue.gif
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post #281 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 06:08 AM
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Other than watching movies on blu ray, I liked sports, gaming, animations, and 3D on my Benq W7000 over my jvc RS55 and 48. I sold the W7000 because of throw distance, so I bought the W1070 this week.
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post #282 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 06:29 AM
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How would you compared the 3D between the W7000 versus the W1070. I'm considering a W1070 as a 3D only projector. I'm just curious if the 3D effect is anything near as good as the W7000
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post #283 of 691 Old 02-20-2013, 08:04 AM
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Haven't received it yet. Hopefully soon
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post #284 of 691 Old 02-21-2013, 04:40 PM
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Ps4 announced by Sony yesterday, as per engadget it will play 4K video but not games in 4K (to start with).
Hardware details still very vague (based on x86 and amd), so hopefully hdmi next gen it will be. Optical reader standard 6x bluray though, so nothing revolutionary there. Video capabilities barely mentionned during presentation. Looks like we'll have to look somewhere else.
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post #285 of 691 Old 02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
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What it means is that its hardrive could store 4K and the PS4 will play it back but there is no means of getting it there. Obviously it would need the new coming HDMI but there are rumors that 4K connectivity to displays will not be HDMI but something else.

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post #286 of 691 Old 02-22-2013, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Ps4 announced by Sony yesterday, as per engadget it will play 4K video but not games in 4K (to start with).
Hardware details still very vague (based on x86 and amd), so hopefully hdmi next gen it will be. Optical reader standard 6x bluray though, so nothing revolutionary there. Video capabilities barely mentionned during presentation. Looks like we'll have to look somewhere else.

My guess is this the PS4 will have download and playback capability, download could include internet download as will as download from optical disk, once the disk/s is/are loaded into the HD, the disk will be locked into that particular machine, a unique code register will be established(Cloud) and that disk's content will not be able to be played in any other machine. The PS4 will need to be internet connected for it to be operational.

Sony will announce the server well before all the PS4 capabilities are publicised...............why canibalise server sales? Just my crystal ball...biggrin.gif

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post #287 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 12:57 AM
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Looks like 4K will be delivered to the Sony server using BD Data disks......no reason the PS4 should be any different, the server would of course have a larger hard drive 4-5TB, the PS4 1TB?

Coolscan's link: http://revision3.com/tzdaily/sony-4k-media-player


This guy had it right here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411196/predictions-for-2013-4k-projectors/180#post_22941103 biggrin.gif

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post #288 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

Looks like 4K will be delivered to the Sony server using BD Data disks......no reason the PS4 should be any different, the server would of course have a larger hard drive 4-5TB, the PS4 1TB?

Coolscan's link: http://revision3.com/tzdaily/sony-4k-media-player


This guy had it right here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1411196/predictions-for-2013-4k-projectors/180#post_22941103 biggrin.gif

No such conclusion can be drawn. The woman interviewer in essence states so you will be able to buy the server that comes with the 84 incher now later this summer. That is not the case. The present is a cluged sever that loads from a bluray data disc. But no consumer has access to the discs etc. The format is unprotected and the Sony Studeo would not tolerate for one split second consumers getting dics and putting them into a bluray fed hard drive. That's why the present server won't output to anything by the sony 84 inch display ptotected by serial number etc to the specific display you purchase. why they do that. Because the studeo (HET) division **** in its panty's that the raw data could otherwise be downloaded and stolen. The Sony guy states that the are no details yet on how the summer server will get content. Obviously that method could be the one but

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post #289 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 06:08 AM
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That's talking specifically about the prototype and how they are delivering content. He talks about IP delivery as an option several times. I would find it foolish if the finished product gave you discs that you had to load on to the harddrive yourself. This is very unappealing to the everyday consumer. If I were given a disc I would want that to be THE copy of the movie that I could access instantly. If this is going to compete with streaming services we NEED instant gratification on top of superior video quality. I'm telling you right now Highjinx...this will not fly. It needs to be disc only instant viewing or IP downloading and after enough is downloaded you can watch while the rest finishes downloading. One or the other.
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post #290 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 06:35 AM
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I just want some 4K content soon. I have no expectation of instant 4K gratification. The only 4K I have seen on my 4K display that isn't upscaled has been the patterns from a $6K signal generator. Instant gratification. Maybe we should have 4K hookers?

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post #291 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

That's talking specifically about the prototype and how they are delivering content. He talks about IP delivery as an option several times. I would find it foolish if the finished product gave you discs that you had to load on to the harddrive yourself. This is very unappealing to the everyday consumer. If I were given a disc I would want that to be THE copy of the movie that I could access instantly. If this is going to compete with streaming services we NEED instant gratification on top of superior video quality. I'm telling you right now Highjinx...this will not fly. It needs to be disc only instant viewing or IP downloading and after enough is downloaded you can watch while the rest finishes downloading. One or the other.
Not too many will complain about copying a disc if that's the only way at first. Better than none at all
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post #292 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 06:53 AM
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Not too many will complain about copying a disc if that's the only way at first. Better than none at all

Yeah, people who post here wouldn't have an issue because they are the enthusiast. That isn't what I'm talking about. Normal people who have the option of streaming lower quality 4K without the added hassle of buying a physical disc and loading it onto a server will almost always take that option over doing all that extra work. To stay competitive they need to come up with a delivery solution that is as low maintenance as possible to stay competitive with streaming services. There will always be enthusiasts out there who will go through the hassle for better quality. You could look at the CD versus MP3 situation. While not as cumbersome to get the content the quality difference is basically the same. The CD has the higher quality but the MP3 has the convenience and price advantage. Who won? Companies like Sony realize this and aren't going to invest all that money if they don't think the consumers are going to purchase it. Especially considering the financial situation that Sony is in. If they take the disc to harddrive route they are taking a big risk that people probably won't find convenient enough. I personally don't see this as a safe option for them to take. It should be something like DVD and Blu-ray. Pop the disc in and you're all set to go. No waiting or hassle involved. It's safe and very familiar. A good idea to maximize disc space for higher quality 4K would be to have only the movie on the disc and given the option to download bonus feature content to the built in harddrive.
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post #293 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 07:04 AM
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I agree.

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post #294 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 10:34 AM
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Just to chime in, They are working on making it so it copy's while you watch.

Hehe I like watching this thread with all the speculation.
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post #295 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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Just to chime in, They are working on making it so it copy's while you watch.

Hehe I like watching this thread with all the speculation.

Who is "they" and what is your source?
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post #296 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 12:12 PM
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Who is "they" and what is your source?

They is Sony, Source is me.

I will answer what I can with the streaming box, but there are a lot of things up in the air still.
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post #297 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 12:42 PM
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post #298 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 12:43 PM
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Watch that clip again...gents...all the clues are there.

2.38 " Currently the way the media is sent out to the user is via BD data disk, you put that in you're player and transfer the content, we haven't announced details if it will be IP based, maybe start it, buffer it up and watch it later or not........you get to keep the movies as well.."

Sounds the possibility of streaming from the disk....not direct play. Of course the download option as well would make sense.

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post #299 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 12:58 PM
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The PS4 BD drive is a 6x spin, buffering and playing would be about the same speed wise as a current direct play at 1x.....chapter access that would take longer.

IP based could also mean being able to stream the info to other devices in ones home network.

As Ron Jones said BD data disk does not lock the system into any particular codecs/bit depths, PS4/Server software can be updated automatically addding whatever capabilities they wish. The same with the disk data.

Doubt 100% this will not be an exclusive for 84" Sony buyers

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post #300 of 691 Old 02-23-2013, 01:08 PM
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Space2001 has close connections at Sony.

The disk load buffer model is a training tool to prepair us for the download model.......biggrin.gif

This is the most logical way it is going to happen, 2 layer BD is in a mature state.....most likely and cheapest method to be used, till internet download is practical. Purchase the disks load them into the server select movie and play. Will they offer external HD's for explading movie collections?

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