Predictions for 2013 4K projectors - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 691 Old 04-02-2013, 04:11 PM
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I think if you're expecting 100GB 4k downloads you're incredibly optimistic (expecting super-great quality)
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I'm fine with discs because it will bring us higher quality material.

I'm fine with disks too. Because if 4K material isn't at higher bit rates with " super great quality " compared to the current top tier Blu rays, there isn't much point in spending more / upgrading from Blu Ray to UHD. Eh ?

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post #362 of 691 Old 04-02-2013, 07:03 PM
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I'm fine with disks too. Because if 4K material isn't at higher bit rates with " super great quality " compared to the current top tier Blu rays, there isn't much point in spending more / upgrading from Blu Ray to UHD. Eh ?

I'm not going to argue with that on a personal level, but I don't think 4k is an "all or nothing". With HD the high quality, large size delivery came first then lesser quality/size streaming, but now we're at a point where delivering lesser quality/size over the internet could be easier/cheaper than rolling out a whole new physical format. At the very least it can be done quicker. Both evidenced by that being what Sony and Red/Odimax are talking about but there being no similarly concrete talk about a Blu-ray update/successor (unless I missed that).

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #363 of 691 Old 04-02-2013, 07:15 PM
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I don't know if this has any relevance but it's a thought I had. Maybe they will choose a streaming service on purpose. I don't have any figures but I'd make a wager to say that commercial cinema attendance has probably lessened over the last few years due to blu-ray, HTIB, and larger sized HDTVs sales. Commercial cinema profits are higher, though, and for a few good reasons. Ticket prices have gone up for 2D showings and then there is the "surcharge" to see a 3D movie which, from what I've seen, has been anywhere from $2-$4 extra. If they made the high quality 4K 10 bit 4:4:2 (or even higher) high bitrate format all of us are after wouldn't that hurt ticket sales at commercial theaters even more? Maybe it's the logical choice to make consumer 4K lesser quality than commercial DCI 4K? I'm probably wrong.

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post #364 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 05:48 AM
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Another thing to consider/remember is that most people don't have projection setups, ie setups with large screens and short viewing ratios. And on top of that most people don't know, and couldn't care less about things like 10bit video or 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 color sampling.

To put it another way, most people can't tell (don't care about) the difference between Netflix and Blu-ray, so the group that's going to care about 4k, let alone the difference between 40+Mbps 10bit 4k and say 15Mbps 4k Netflix is even smaller, which makes the case for a new physical format even harder.

That said, I think this opens up the possibility that 4K will focus on quality over mass/easy distribution (probably for a premium), which would be pretty sweet (well not the price premium part). Kind of like 3D, there will be Blu-ray/1080p for J6P, and for a little extra the enthusiasts could opt for a 4k "reference quality" option.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #365 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 06:16 AM
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Everyone I know is clueless about 4k and none of them even own a 3D blu ray. Hopefully, in the next two years, 4k projectors will be affordable because they do improve 1080p content. Even if 4k doesn't take off or die out, I will have a 4k projector in my home.
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post #366 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 07:25 AM
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If we get 4K and it turns out to be only a streaming solution I'd be bummed. I have a large Blu-Ray collection not only because it's the best possible quality, but I enjoy owning my movies. It would be sad for me to see the possibility of owning a movie disappear. (Unless it turns out we can download the movie and own it that way, I suppose).
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post #367 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 04:43 PM
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If we get 4K and it turns out to be only a streaming solution I'd be bummed. I have a large Blu-Ray collection not only because it's the best possible quality, but I enjoy owning my movies. It would be sad for me to see the possibility of owning a movie disappear. (Unless it turns out we can download the movie and own it that way, I suppose).

+ 1.

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post #368 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 04:58 PM
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There is something about buying tangible things that give it more subjective value. You feel like you got more for your money that way. Plus, having a large collection of discs always look more impressive than a few harddrives. tongue.gif

I keep my blu-rays stored on harddrives though. I don't want to use them. This way I know they won't get scratched. My collection is just just over 21TB now. When I place them on my harddrives I can save a lot of space by re-muxing to a matroska (mkv) container and by only keeping the untouched video, audio, and English subtitles. 3D titles are kept whole in ISO format, though, as it's the only way PowerDVD recognizes them.

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post #369 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

If we get 4K and it turns out to be only a streaming solution I'd be bummed. I have a large Blu-Ray collection not only because it's the best possible quality, but I enjoy owning my movies. It would be sad for me to see the possibility of owning a movie disappear. (Unless it turns out we can download the movie and own it that way, I suppose).

I'm glad to hear that you and Craig are of the same mind as me; thought I was just being an old fa--!
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post #370 of 691 Old 04-03-2013, 06:48 PM
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I haven't really reconciled where I stand/sit. As far as discs go, I've really got no attachment to having a physical object. I really don't care about showing off the case, and I really don't care about extras either. On the "digital" side, I really like Netflix (streaming) and it's model (all you can watch for a fixed price). Let's blue sky for a moment, all else equal (quality, selection), I'd happily go digital/streaming.

But this is reality, not blue sky land, so I get discs from Netflix, firstly because new releases (most of what I watch via Netflix) isn't available through their streaming, and the quality is better. I could do Vudu, but I've still got a mental block preventing me from doing PPV (even though it's really little different than renting from a B&M). And I still buy discs because with a disc I can convert it to whatever format I want and play it on whatever device I want, I'm not stuck using the app/device that I used to download it.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #371 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 02:25 AM
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post #372 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 08:06 AM
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Here is the official Sony press release and not some reporter's summation of it


https://blog.sony.com/press/sony-announces-price-and-availability-of-its-new-xbr-4k-ultra-hd-led-tvs-2/

I am concerned from its wording that owners of the Sony VPL-vw1000ES may not be able to use the server.

I wish they had specifically said 4K displays instead of 4K TVs. also will it work with non sony's. Is the mother going to be limited to use with one specific serial number as is the current server.

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post #373 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 10:01 AM
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Hey Mark, It should work. I saw the 4k server demoed on the 1000es a while ago. It looks phenomenal. Remember the marketing is geared towards the TV's. Sony is getting a lot of studio support. This fall there could be tons of movies available for purchase.
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post #374 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 10:06 AM
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Till now there have been 2 Sony 4K servers. There was one, the first of which there are only a few that will work with the 100ES. Some sony stores have these. the second which is supplied with the 84 inch 4K panel will not work with the 1000ES. because you saw one that doesn't mean it is the coming server for $699. Please don't view this as being argumentative. I hope the new one will work with all sony 4K displays which of course would included the 1000ES. Thanks

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post #375 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 10:15 AM
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The One I saw is the $699 one, of course it was a engineering prototype. It was playing on the 1000es
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post #376 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 12:33 PM
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Great. Thank you so much. from the 1000ES thread, it looks like fall availability for buying one without buying a Sony panel.

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post #377 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Here is the official Sony press release and not some reporter's summation of it


https://blog.sony.com/press/sony-announces-price-and-availability-of-its-new-xbr-4k-ultra-hd-led-tvs-2/

I am concerned from its wording that owners of the Sony VPL-vw1000ES may not be able to use the server.

I wish they had specifically said 4K displays instead of 4K TVs. also will it work with non sony's. Is the mother going to be limited to use with one specific serial number as is the current server.

Had you followed the link you would have found that the press release was linked in full. I always give the link of the place I get the info from. Kind of giving credit where it's due:).
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post #378 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Had you followed the link you would have found that the press release was linked in full. I always give the link of the place I get the info from. Kind of giving credit where it's due:).

Yea. Yea. Yea. Where do you think I copied the direct link to the press release from? smile.gif I did read the press release earlier than you post but I copied you link.

OK OK You get credit. Check is in the mail. smile.gif

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post #379 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 02:11 PM
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I'm glad to hear that you and Craig are of the same mind as me; thought I was just being an old fa--!

Count me as another who wants to own all my movies on a physical media. I've had too much trouble in the past with hard drives going bad and I know I could always redownload or setup a RAID configuration but I don't wanna do that. I'm not even that old....40ish but give me physical media any day over streaming or downloading.

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post #380 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 02:19 PM
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It is what it will be. I will take anything. Optical 4K discs do not appear to be on the horizon.

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post #381 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 07:12 PM
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Count me as another who wants to own all my movies on a physical media. I've had too much trouble in the past with hard drives going bad and I know I could always redownload or setup a RAID configuration but I don't wanna do that. I'm not even that old....40ish but give me physical media any day over streaming or downloading.

Mike

If I "bought" it, I want to "own" it, I don't really care whether it gets to me on a disc or via the internet. That said, if it's locked into some "service" or specific device such that if that service/device goes under my purchase becomes unusable, well then I don't really feel like I "own" it.

Yeah, yeah, let's not get started on the copyright debate, I just expect some flexibility with my purchase, like the ability to work around the limited vision/innovation of the industry and obsolescence of hardware.

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post #382 of 691 Old 04-08-2013, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

If I "bought" it, I want to "own" it, I don't really care whether it gets to me on a disc or via the internet. That said, if it's locked into some "service" or specific device such that if that service/device goes under my purchase becomes unusable, well then I don't really feel like I "own" it.

Yeah, yeah, let's not get started on the copyright debate, I just expect some flexibility with my purchase, like the ability to work around the limited vision/innovation of the industry and obsolescence of hardware.

Maybe Circuit City's Phoenix will rise from the Ashes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX

rent for limited viewing periods, fixed price to own. The question would be, can the content still be watched if the device isn't phoning home every so often. Hackers will be chomping at the bit to get at the encryption so they need a solid way of locking down the device.
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post #383 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 01:41 PM
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Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs Start at $5K

Sony will sell its 55- and 65-inch 4K Ultra HD TVs for $4,999 and $6,999, respectively, beginning on April 21, 2013. Both TVs come with Sony’s new “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray discs of Spider-Man (2002), Ghostbusters and Angels & Demons.
 
 
Sony XBR-65X900A 65-inch 4K Ultra HD TV

Sony XBR-65X900A 65-inch 4K Ultra HD TV

 
 
 
There were a lot of dropped jaws and mutters of disbelief whenSamsung recently announced its new 4K Ultra HD TV would sell for $39,999.

 

On the other end of the spectrum is a 4K TV that’s actually in the zone of sorta affordable (compared to $40K), and it’s from Sony.

Sony showed off two new 4K TV models at CES 2013. Now the company is announcing the prices for those models, and the smaller of the two (at 55-inches) is priced at $4,999. The larger, 65-inch model will be priced at $6,999. Both will be available for online and retail purchasing on April 21. This is the first time a 4K TV will be available online.

The XBR-55X900A or XBR-65X900A 4K Ultra HD TV also comes with Sony’s new “Mastered in 4K” Blu-ray discs of Spider-Man (2002), Ghostbusters and Angels & Demons.

The new TVs include Sony’s proprietary two-chip 4K X-Reality PRO picture engine which upscales regular HD content to 4K. These edge-lit LED LCD TVs use something Sony calls TRILUMINUS display to deliver more accurate colors. Both models also include integrated 65 Watt, front-facing, magnetic fluid speaker.

Until this announcement, the cheapest 4K TV was the LG 84-inch at $19,999 but sells for $16,999. Releasing two models under $10K is kind of a big deal, because while these are smaller TVs, they also demonstrate that the technology can be scaled to sizes and prices that are more in line with what consumers will be willing to swallow. While $4,999 is still a lot for a TV, and is thousands of dollars more than any other premium TV, it’s no longer in the “I could’a bought a car” realm, which makes it seem more like a real product and not just a statement piece.

LG, Sharp and Toshiba also promised more 4K TVs later in 2013, but we haven’t heard what the prices will be. Is Sony making the first volley in a 4K price battle?

Sony FMP-X1 4K Media Server

Sony is also officially announcing some details about its 4K media server, the FMP-X1. The media player will be available for $699 and includes 10 feature films and video shorts, all in 4K resolution. If you happen to be one of the buyers of Sony’s first 4K TV and received the included server (basically a Dell computer), Sony will let you exchange that for the new server at no cost. This fall Sony will open up its 4K media service. No details were available on how the service would work or how exactly 4K movies would be delivered to the system.

The feature films included with purchase of the 4K Media Player are Bad Teacher, Battle: Los Angeles, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Karate Kid (2010), Salt, Taxi Driver, That’s My Boy, The Amazing Spider-Man, The Other Guys and Total Recall (2012).

image
Sony FMP-X1 4K Media Server

 

 

Now if they could have a true 4K projector like the 4K projector come down to earth, I would love to have one :)

 

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post #384 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 02:39 PM
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Actually the lowest priced 4K UHD TV both before and after the Sony announcement is the 50 inch Seiki which is already available with an on-line street price of under $1300 (thread here). It's certain we will see other chinese TVs, such as Westinghouse coming to dealer's shelves soon at 'entry level' prices. Several of these 2nd or 3rd trier companies announced models in the 50" to 65" range at CES, but generally provided no prices. If the 50" Seiki model is a representative example then there will probably be 65" models available for perhaps under $4K within a few months. I'm certain Sony's 4K LCD/LED TVs will be higher quality than the low priced off brands (as is the case with 1080p models), but such entry-level models will help get 4K UHD to the mass market.



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post #385 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 03:40 PM
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Actually the lowest priced 4K UHD TV both before and after the Sony announcement is the 50 inch Seiki which is already available with an on-line street price of under $1300 (thread here). It's certain we will see other chinese TVs, such as Westinghouse coming to dealer's shelves soon at 'entry level' prices. Several of these 2nd or 3rd trier companies announced models in the 50" to 65" range at CES, but generally provided no prices. If the 50" Seiki model is a representative example then there will probably be 65" models available for perhaps under $4K within a few months. I'm certain Sony's 4K LCD/LED TVs will be higher quality than the low priced off brands (as is the case with 1080p models), but such entry-level models will help get 4K UHD to the mass market.



.
If they are making 4k for this cheap, cheaper 4k projectors could be ready for CEDIA this year.
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If they are making 4k for this cheap, cheaper 4k projectors could be ready for CEDIA this year.

That's possilble, but some manufacturers may hold off for another year until they can include HDMI 2.0 inputs and allowing time for more 4K UHD sources to become available.

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post #387 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 06:36 PM
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So, will these new 4k UHD tvs be obsolete when/if a new HDMI standard is rolled out for 4k sources?? Is that the main hold up for 4k projectors? I know I read the Sony 1000ES projector would be upgradeable.

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post #388 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 07:07 PM
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No, not obsolete. They will just be limited to the content they can display. But for now, as long as you're watching movies shot at 24fps (or 24/1001 as we get them at home) you'll be fine.

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post #389 of 691 Old 04-09-2013, 08:58 PM
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No, not obsolete. They will just be limited to the content they can display. But for now, as long as you're watching movies shot at 24fps (or 24/1001 as we get them at home) you'll be fine.

Ok, thanks. Does anyone know when HDMI 2.0 is to be released and is this dependent on nailing down all the specs for how 4k content will be displayed?

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post #390 of 691 Old 04-10-2013, 05:45 AM
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Don't forget there is already 2 solutions available now. Displayport and HDbaset that can handle 4k.
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