Predictions for 2013 4K projectors - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I am starting to have my doubts about this new Red projector. In less than 6 months they are supposed to have this dream projector for less than $10K. I hope its true

The selling model is a direct one, thus they have a pricing advantage. The projector itself is a single chip per light engine, 2 of for passive 3d.

They just may hit their target..........and more importantly stir up the market. Reminds me of the Sony Ruby days.

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post #32 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post


The selling model is a direct one, thus they have a pricing advantage. The projector itself is a single chip per light engine, 2 of for passive 3d.

They just may hit their target..........and more importantly stir up the market. Reminds me of the Sony Ruby days.

I hear their beta unit was impressive with 3D, but I'm more concerned about 2D. It being 4k, most just assumed the 2D was be great.
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post #33 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I hear their beta unit was impressive with 3D, but I'm more concerned about 2D. It being 4k, most just assumed the 2D was be great.

The Lcos chip/s they are using appear CR limited compaired to the Sony and way behind the JVC ones.

JVC/Kenwood are toying with Lasers for automotive HUDs', wonder if this may lead to laser use even as a pure light source for projectors? ............RED's effort should speed the laser adoption for the likes of Sony & JVC.

When will the consumer see it?.....that is the question.

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post #34 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post


The Lcos chip/s they are using appear CR limited compaired to the Sony and way behind the JVC ones.

JVC/Kenwood are toying with Lasers for automotive HUDs', wonder if this may lead to laser use even as a pure light source for projectors? ............RED's effort should speed the laser adoption for the likes of Sony & JVC.

When will the consumer see it?.....that is the question.


Well, i can't wait to hear more about this Red projector and to see what JVC does this year
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post #35 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I am starting to have my doubts about this new Red projector. In less than 6 months they are supposed to have this dream projector for less than $10K. I hope its true

If RED holds true to their usual schedule, the projector should ship about 2015.
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post #36 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

If RED holds true to their usual schedule, the projector should ship about 2015.

It'll probably take that long to get 4K bluray anyhow!
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post #37 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 08:49 AM
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I fear too many are falling prey to the marketing departments of popular mass-produced brands...looking to the next seeming "breakthrough" buzz-word technology calculated to motivate new consumers (as well as existing PJ owners) by the promise of an ever-improved price/performance experience. We get so fixated on core technologies that we overlook the things that make a projector superior...really fine optics, high refresh rates, brightness without sacrifice of contrast, saturated but realistic color that's easily calibrated. These qualities exist right now in higher-performance projectors from the likes of SIM2, Runco, DPI, etc. Instead of jumping from a bang-for-the-buck projector to a next-big-thing projector, it might make more sense to invest in one projector that pays attention to the differentiating core elements. It might cost more initially, but such projectors will continue to deliver outstanding performance over time. I'd much rather have a 2K projector with great color and contrast and a superior lens over a 4K projector with "cost-effective" optics.
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post #38 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 12:37 PM
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Desperately need to replace my ailing RS20 - but since CEDIA is only 3½ months away - thought It would be best to wait to see JVC's new models. And it is time for new design change (every 2 years).
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post #39 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I fear too many are falling prey to the marketing departments of popular mass-produced brands...looking to the next seeming "breakthrough" buzz-word technology calculated to motivate new consumers (as well as existing PJ owners) by the promise of an ever-improved price/performance experience. We get so fixated on core technologies that we overlook the things that make a projector superior...really fine optics, high refresh rates, brightness without sacrifice of contrast, saturated but realistic color that's easily calibrated. These qualities exist right now in higher-performance projectors from the likes of SIM2, Runco, DPI, etc. Instead of jumping from a bang-for-the-buck projector to a next-big-thing projector, it might make more sense to invest in one projector that pays attention to the differentiating core elements. It might cost more initially, but such projectors will continue to deliver outstanding performance over time. I'd much rather have a 2K projector with great color and contrast and a superior lens over a 4K projector with "cost-effective" optics.

I think the reason so many people (myself included) are even considering such an expensive projector isn't the fact that it's marketed as 4k (although that sure helps), but that it is pretty bright with an excellent contrast level (higher than other DLPs i think, isn't it?), has great optics, motorized zoom/focus/lens shift, lens memory, excellent motion handling for LCOS, the best frame insertion on the market, good lag for gaming, many picture options (no CMD though, definately a disapointment) and great build quality. That doesn't even factor in that it has great 3D and the possibility to take a 4K signal when it's available.

For the price, i don't think anything else comes close as far as i can see. If there is something else that does it all, tell me cuz i'm considering.
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post #40 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

I think the reason so many people (myself included) are even considering such an expensive projector isn't the fact that it's marketed as 4k (although that sure helps), but that it is pretty bright with an excellent contrast level (higher than other DLPs i think, isn't it?), has great optics, motorized zoom/focus/lens shift, lens memory, excellent motion handling for LCOS, the best frame insertion on the market, good lag for gaming, many picture options (no CMD though, definately a disapointment) and great build quality. That doesn't even factor in that it has great 3D and the possibility to take a 4K signal when it's available.

For the price, i don't think anything else comes close as far as i can see. If there is something else that does it all, tell me cuz i'm considering.

All of the above, plus it's the quietest of any of its major competitors (top JVC's, SIM2, etc., if that's important to you) and has the shortest throw ratio (~1.27) which is imp to me. Also, if you do sit close to a large screen, you will definitely appreciate the 4K upconversion.
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post #41 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Desperately need to replace my ailing RS20 - but since CEDIA is only 3½ months away - thought It would be best to wait to see JVC's new models. And it is time for new design change (every 2 years).

I am VERY interested in what they will come out with. If i could get a projector just like the RS55 but with ghosting like a sony and input lag like a sony, i'd jump on it. Faux-K would be nice too.
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post #42 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 02:03 PM
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The 4K standard is going to change with the next refresh of HDMI. Jackson and Cameron could be the driving force to 4K 48FPS (like it or not)

The delivery method of true 4K content is still a mystery at this time. We could end up with 3 different 4K projectors in the fall and still no chance of actual 4K content for quite some time to come.

I'd prefer a 200-400GB disk if possible unless they come up with a killer new codec for streaming that kind of bandwidth with no artifacts. I'll pass on any of the current streaming methods for 1080P delivery today vs. BD.


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post #43 of 691 Old 05-22-2012, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The 4K standard is going to change with the next refresh of HDMI. Jackson and Cameron could be the driving force to 4K 48FPS (like it or not)

The delivery method of true 4K content is still a mystery at this time. We could end up with 3 different 4K projectors in the fall and still no chance of actual 4K content for quite some time to come.

I'd prefer a 200-400GB disk if possible unless they come up with a killer new codec for streaming that kind of bandwidth with no artifacts. I'll pass on any of the current streaming methods for 1080P delivery today vs. BD.

Its funny how we want 4K projectors and we know there will be no 4K to watch
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post #44 of 691 Old 05-23-2012, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you all think the successor to the VW95 will have? It has Lens memory, it has 240 hertz, it has great overall PQ. Improved black level performance? Brighter 3D?
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post #45 of 691 Old 05-23-2012, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by emf View Post

We are waiting for LED and Laser
4K is only one factor. Probably even more vital might be change to high-power LED and Laser.

Agreed. While 4k can be useful, the fact is in the vast majority of homes it is a throw away. Why? Humans, even with perfect vision, can only resolve so much. Same thing with the flat panel 1080p push. So many went out and jumped on it when they had a perfectly working 720, not realizing that for a 42"-50" TV how close they would really have to sit for that change to even be helpful.

That being said, there are good uses for it no question, but there are other factors to be improved that would be a more beneficial change (for most).

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post #46 of 691 Old 05-23-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post

What do you all think the successor to the VW95 will have? It has Lens memory, it has 240 hertz, it has great overall PQ. Improved black level performance? Brighter 3D?

brighter in 2D and 3D, higher native, 480 hz panels? The Sony's still have some ghosting, just not as bad as the JVC and about equal to the Epson.

We probably won't see any of the LCD/LCOS/SXRD panels perform as perfect with 3D as the DLP's unless there are substantial changes. The holy grail will be a projector that has flawless, ghost free 3D and JVC's native contrast.

It's interesting to see how one of the reviewers in WSR now uses 'minute of ghosting' vs the entire runtime of the movie to judge how well the 3D projectors perform (even the expensive models). The benchmark for the 3D DLP's is 'zero minutes' since they can't ghost.


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post #47 of 691 Old 05-23-2012, 08:09 PM
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I have no doubt that Red will ship their PJ this year. I've been a Red camera owner for a long time and have gone through all the pain of the growing pains of the company. Today, they are good for hitting delivery estimates plus/minus 45 days and they are still getting better. They have been in the process of building and expanding their factory in California and last year brought on Mr. Jannard's (the founder of Red and Oakley) manufacturing guru from his days at Oakley. Since that time (about a year now) they have moved from being a joke in the industry for delivery dates to one of the more consistent companies. Probably doesn't hurt that they completely changed their philosophy of development from "tell our customers on the message board as soon as we think about it" to "announce it when its done". Obviously the PJ is an exception to that, but they had already announced its development a while ago and were just giving an update.
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post #48 of 691 Old 05-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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i'd like to see a 4k dlp for the home at a below $5,000.
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post #49 of 691 Old 05-25-2012, 09:53 AM
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I wanna see a 4k 3 chip DLP with and LED bulb with passive 3D, 2000 lumens, 50,000:1 contrast and built in popcorn maker for $19.99.
Lens shift is a must. So is a 2x zoom.
It should have a minimum of 4 hdmi inputs and an optical output. Also the machine should come in a variety of translucent colors.
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post #50 of 691 Old 05-25-2012, 01:28 PM
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2.35 native panels, 2000 lumens, no ghosting, 100K contrast, LED or laser drive, at $10K street.

That get's my vote!
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post #51 of 691 Old 05-25-2012, 02:55 PM
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2.35 native panels, 2000 lumens, no ghosting, 100K contrast, LED or laser drive, at $10K street.

That get's my vote!

Oowee I don't think I could resist that one!
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post #52 of 691 Old 05-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toshiro_Mifune View Post

I have no doubt that Red will ship their PJ this year. I've been a Red camera owner for a long time and have gone through all the pain of the growing pains of the company. Today, they are good for hitting delivery estimates plus/minus 45 days and they are still getting better. They have been in the process of building and expanding their factory in California and last year brought on Mr. Jannard's (the founder of Red and Oakley) manufacturing guru from his days at Oakley. Since that time (about a year now) they have moved from being a joke in the industry for delivery dates to one of the more consistent companies. Probably doesn't hurt that they completely changed their philosophy of development from "tell our customers on the message board as soon as we think about it" to "announce it when its done". Obviously the PJ is an exception to that, but they had already announced its development a while ago and were just giving an update.

Glad you are so confident in them but I will not hold my breath. Being that this is their first venture into projectors, I expect they will have some issues to resolve in the latter stages of development that they didn't expect. This will push out the delivery dates. I will however be pleasantly surprised if you're right and even more so if it turns out to be as good as us HT guys want it to be. Of course my bank account may not be as happy....

And by the way, it is also likely you will not get a lens included for $10K
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post #53 of 691 Old 05-26-2012, 05:19 PM
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I'm sure Red will deliver.........and it's offering may be a hit among independent theaters and 130" plus HT screen owners, but I feel the likes of JVC will offer a more attractive product for smaller HT screen owners, with active 3D and their superior CR. If they add a modulatable stackable laser light source, that will be a huge cherry on the cake.

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post #54 of 691 Old 05-30-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexas View Post

I wanna see a 4k 3 chip DLP with and LED bulb with passive 3D, 2000 lumens, 50,000:1 contrast and built in popcorn maker for $19.99.
Lens shift is a must. So is a 2x zoom.
It should have a minimum of 4 hdmi inputs and an optical output. Also the machine should come in a variety of translucent colors.

It better be laser driven if they going to ask that much
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post #55 of 691 Old 06-06-2012, 10:07 AM
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If red does come out with any kind of a 4k projector Sony will be pissing in their pants with their "SURE" pricing
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post #56 of 691 Old 06-06-2012, 03:04 PM
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If red does come out with any kind of a 4k projector Sony will be pissing in their pants with their "SURE" pricing

I don't understand Sony's SURE pricing. I know that Sony wants to make the retailers make more money, but the higher prices will stop customers from buying their products when they compare the lower prices of other brands. I will most likely get a JVC next year and Sony's SURE pricing is making the decision between the two even easier for me. A little OT...I know smile.gif.

To get on topic...I'm drooling at the possibility of an affordable true 4K JVC projector! E-shift is nice, but that can't beat true 4K.
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post #57 of 691 Old 06-06-2012, 03:35 PM
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The worry with any of the new 4K projectors is not being able to use our existing anamorphic lenses with them.

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post #58 of 691 Old 06-06-2012, 10:22 PM
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Greater longevity would be a plus in my book. That and not constantly chasing PQ settings because of lamp drift.


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Lasers for longevity doesn't excite me--lamps are really OK for this--but if they allow higher brightness along with much higher CR, then that will be something.

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post #59 of 691 Old 06-11-2012, 04:38 AM
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There is already 4k content available for end users. Take a look here: http://timescapes.org/
and of course this: http://sintel.org/

I have one suggestion to Projector manufacturers: please start implementing display port 1.2 into your devices, currently it's the only interface capable of transfering 4K in 3D (HDMI 1.4 is not sufficient)
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post #60 of 691 Old 06-12-2012, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I don't understand Sony's SURE pricing. I know that Sony wants to make the retailers make more money, but the higher prices will stop customers from buying their products when they compare the lower prices of other brands. I will most likely get a JVC next year and Sony's SURE pricing is making the decision between the two even easier for me. A little OT...I know smile.gif.
To get on topic...I'm drooling at the possibility of an affordable true 4K JVC projector! E-shift is nice, but that can't beat true 4K.



Nothing wrong with SURE pricing, they ( all company´s ) just need to set the price right from the start wink.gif

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