Predictions for 2013 4K projectors - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm wondering if you guys think we will see any other 4K projectors announced in a few months at the Cedia show?

What i'm mainly questioning, is since 4K is still a ways out, is it likely that another projector similar to the Sony 4K VW1000 will be available for cheaper (not neccessarily sony). Something with similar picture, with contrast, brightness, and features close to the sony.

I know that the flagship products are always a lot when they come out first, but from what i've read, there is actually a tangible difference between the high end stuff and the lower end stuff that comes out later (lens sharpness/quality, build quality, etc).
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post #2 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 01:47 PM
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I'm still really interested in the Red project. I, like many others I'm sure, am wondering how that's going to change the market.

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post #3 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 04:58 PM
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I wish jvc puts 4k on their mid and high end projectors. Now, whether this will happen in 2013 remains to be seen. It will happen sometime though that's for sure.
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post #4 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 09:58 PM
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We are waiting for LED and Laser
4K is only one factor. Probably even more vital might be change to high-power LED and Laser.
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post #5 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 10:03 PM
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Where is NATIVE 2.35 aspect ratio?

At the moment only one company offers native 2.35 aspect ratio projectors. Instead of 4K native 2560 x1080 looks good to my mind. Get rid of adapters and the effort involved in hanging the works from the ceiling.
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post #6 of 691 Old 05-18-2012, 10:41 PM
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In terms of pure picture quality (my main concern) I'm not sure what the big advantages are with the Red product. Reports are a fairly low contrast ratio at least for now. What is the other advantage for picture quality. Brightness?

(I happen to be more interested in 2D image quality. I understand the Red projector has some excellent promise for 3D, though it means changing one's screen to a silver screen and, for many of us, that means a sacrifice for our 2D quality).
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post #7 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 05:41 AM
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I don't think we'll see 2:35:1 native anytime soon with the main companies (JVC, Sony, etc).

The RED is interesting no doubt, but the 3D screen requirements could be a deal breaker for many.

I'm mainly interested to see what Sony and JVC are going to do in the fall. My guess is a VW1000 'lite' for ~ 10k MSRP. Hopefully they'll have time to fix some of the current bugs (banding on some copies) and provide a CMS as well.

JVC - who knows what they are planning. They appear to refresh the chassis every 2 years. The e-shift was a nice surprise from last years 50/60 models, extra brightness, more contrast, etc.- definitely a better 2D projector this year. For as good as the 2D is, the 3D fell behind further from the competitors. This was well criticized in the main HT publications, I'm sure JVC knows by now they are behind in 3D.

I run multiple projectors and want the best 2D projector possible for under 10k. I don't want JVC to make sacrifices to the 2D IQ for the sake of better 3D. If they can pull off better 2D and 3D at the same time, I'll be the first in line to give it a shot.
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post #8 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 09:17 AM
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I doubt there will be any sub $10k 4k pjs this year if that is what you are hoping for. Sony may come out with a cheaper 4k, but remember the current one is $25k. One could say the Qualia to the Ruby, but the impact of 1080p IMO was bigger at the time than cheap 4k. As small as the HT market is, there are still more people who want improvements in other areas before going to 4k.

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post #9 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 10:40 AM
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I personally would like to see 4K but while we wait a couple more years for content I would like to have a 16X9 projector with a built in anamorphic lens and passive 3D.
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post #10 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

I personally would like to see 4K but while we wait a couple more years for content I would like to have a 16X9 projector with a built in anamorphic lens and passive 3D.

A projector with built in A-lens has to small of a customer base. The projector market is small enough, that I doubt a manufacturer wants to reduce his base even more.

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post #11 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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I want 4K, 48 fps and 3D. So, this would require 8X the data output of current 1080p 2D?

Actually, I want 6K, but 4K is what will happen next.
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post #12 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 02:14 PM
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Sony is working to have a 4k for 10k and may be a bit cheaper.
The laser still may be a bit a away for consumers but Sony is working on it.
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post #13 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 05:23 PM
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I feel JVC will continue to offer e-Shift but with 4k inputs. They may put up a convincing demo with the 2+x as expensive Sony1000 and the 'new 4k input accepting JVC' with 4k source material

This will keep pricing sub $10K region allowing it to compete with RED's direct selling model offering.

Laser light source would be a desireable addition both from marketing and consumer POV........along with the stellar JVC native contrast......the icing on the cake.

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post #14 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

I feel JVC will continue to offer e-Shift but with 4k inputs. They may put up a convincing demo with the 2+x as expensive Sony1000 and the 'new 4k input accepting JVC' with 4k source material

This will keep pricing sub $10K region allowing it to compete with RED's direct selling model offering.

Laser light source would be a desireable addition both from marketing and consumer POV........along with the stellar JVC native contrast......the icing on the cake.

Would also be significant if JVC could up the brightness by ~ 50%. To me, with a Sony1000ES, the higher brightness--together with the greater sharpness (presumably due to 4K upconversion and first class lens) and good motion handling--is its most important asset. (I also benefit from the shorter throw ratio.) The only thing I can think of improving the 1000ES would be the o/f CR of the JVC's.
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post #15 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 06:31 PM
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The 1000 should have had more 3D lumens for the 25k MSRP. ~1000 lumens is fine on an HP, but it's dim on a large unity gain screen given the brightness in 2D mode.

Sony listened when customers complained about the dim 3D on the VW90, and fixed it with the HW30 and VW95. The 1000 doesn't use the lamp pulsing technology, so hopefully they'll change this with V2.0 or the 1000 lite.

I'd also like various manufacturers offer a fully Q/A'd copy at an extra fee. We've seen wide sample variances from cheap to expensive.
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post #16 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 07:07 PM
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The 1000 should have had more 3D lumens for the 25k MSRP. ~1000 lumens is fine on an HP, but it's dim on a large unity gain screen given the brightness in 2D mode.

Sony listened when customers complained about the dim 3D on the VW90, and fixed it with the HW30 and VW95. The 1000 doesn't use the lamp pulsing technology, so hopefully they'll change this with V2.0 or the 1000 lite.

I'd also like various manufacturers offer a fully Q/A'd copy at an extra fee. We've seen wide sample variances from cheap to expensive.

I really don't care about 3d (still haven't looked at it on my Sony1000), but do like a bright pic on a large screen (sitting at ~ 1SW, so 4K really is appreciated). I do have an HP(2.4) screen (136x72 in 16x9 configuration), and in high lamp the 1000 produces 30+ ftL off the screen. I'm really hooked on this and don't think I would ever like to go back.
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post #17 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Would also be significant if JVC could up the brightness by ~ 50%. To me, with a Sony1000ES, the higher brightness--together with the greater sharpness (presumably due to 4K upconversion and first class lens) and good motion handling--is its most important asset. (I also benefit from the shorter throw ratio.) The only thing I can think of improving the 1000ES would be the o/f CR of the JVC's.

Let's hope 2D/3D brightness requirement will be addressed, either a twin stage dual element lamp or with laser.

I feel 4k inputted e-shift unit with a 2k resolving lens will give a true 4k resolving lensed unit a good run for half the money. Hopefully we will see faster chips this generation from JVC with better motion handling without contrast compromises or optimally, increased CR than is currently offered by the present generation.

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post #18 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 07:14 PM
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I am not expecting to see laser this year. Heck we have not even gotten LED yet.

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post #19 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I really don't care about 3d (still haven't looked at it on my Sony1000), but do like a bright pic on a large screen (sitting at ~ 1SW, so 4K really is appreciated). I do have an HP(2.4) screen (136x72 in 16x9 configuration), and in high lamp the 1000 produces 30+ ftL off the screen. I'm really hooked on this and don't think I would ever like to go back.

With my 2.8 @ nearly 3.x gain, I can appreciate liking a bright image. I also prefer it brighter than most are likely going to be comfortable with. I think the old HP is a perfect match for the RS55 since it's quite bright @ 3.x and the black floor is fantastic at the same time.

2012 was a good year for new projectors for all price ranges compared to 2011. Let's hope that continues in 2013.
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post #20 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 07:48 PM
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With Sony's laser modules being announced about 2 years ago to OEM'ers, I hope they are ready to make an appearance in a finished product.

Leds are doing well in the Flat Panel arena, laser in front projection has a nice marketing buzz to it.

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post #21 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

With Sony's laser modules being announced about 2 years ago to OEM'ers, I hope they are ready to make an appearance in a finished product.

Leds are doing well in the Flat Panel arena, laser in front projection has a nice marketing buzz to it.

Lasers for longevity doesn't excite me--lamps are really OK for this--but if they allow higher brightness along with much higher CR, then that will be something.
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post #22 of 691 Old 05-19-2012, 10:55 PM
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Lasers for longevity doesn't excite me--lamps are really OK for this--but if they allow higher brightness along with much higher CR, then that will be something.

Agree.

Being able to shut the unit off and back on again in a short period without issues appeals and of course colour stability, calibrate once and forget is nice.

I think like RED it gives the manufacturer the ability to stack laser modules, thus tailoring brightness to suit screen size/gain, 2D/3D, the versatility could prove attractive.

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post #23 of 691 Old 05-20-2012, 05:11 PM
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I would not be surprised to see a few more high End 4k units this year. I also doubt if many will be priced under 5K. I would expect that JVC will have a few new models but Epson will be in the 2nd year of a product cycle and probably will not have a 4K product yet. I also doubt if Panasonic will have any new major announcement this year. It will be interesting to see if Sony comes up with anything considering the losses they had this year.
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post #24 of 691 Old 05-20-2012, 05:52 PM
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I would not be surprised to see a few more high End 4k units this year. I also doubt if many will be priced under 5K. I would expect that JVC will have a few new models but Epson will be in the 2nd year of a product cycle and probably will not have a 4K product yet. I also doubt if Panasonic will have any new major announcement this year. It will be interesting to see if Sony comes up with anything considering the losses they had this year.

So what do you guys think of the probability that JVC introduces a 4K projector in their next lineup (2013)? Maybe they will have their usual 3 projector models and introduce another model, which will have native 4K panels? I'm also looking for JVC to improve motion handling, 3D, and even deeper inky blacks. Here's hoping.
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post #25 of 691 Old 05-20-2012, 07:52 PM
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I have heard nothing but I also would hope that JVC would improve their 3D with the next gen of models. Ghosting has been a big issue. I really think they have to do this in there next models. I know that JVC has been working on professional 4k projectors so I would not be surprised to see a native 4k unit at the top of their line. I would also not be surprised to see the psudo 4k in the lower priced units. Motion handling might be improved but I doubt they could do much better with their blacks. I would also like to see a cheaper and better bulb with brighter light output.

I would also love to see what Sony will do.
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post #26 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 09:46 AM
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The current list of major 4K Chip vendors

DLP 1.38” 4096x2160 at 4,000:1 on/off. Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
JVC 1.27” 4096x2400 at 10,000:1 on/off. Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
Sony 1.55” 4096x2160 at 5,000:1 on/off Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
Sony 0.74” 4096x2160 at 20,000:1 on/off Used in the $25K VW1000Es

At this point Sony is the only company that has a chip from a size/yield/cost perspective that has a prayer of deployment in a home theater product priced < $15K!
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post #27 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 06:24 PM
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Epson said they were planning on 4k LCOQ by 2015 a couple of years ago. If they don't start actually shipping LCOQ pjs, then it may take awhile longer for them to achieve 4k.

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post #28 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
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The current list of major 4K Chip vendors

DLP 1.38” 4096x2160 at 4,000:1 on/off. Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
JVC 1.27” 4096x2400 at 10,000:1 on/off. Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
Sony 1.55” 4096x2160 at 5,000:1 on/off Used in > $100K Dcinema projectors
Sony 0.74” 4096x2160 at 20,000:1 on/off Used in the $25K VW1000Es

At this point Sony is the only company that has a chip from a size/yield/cost perspective that has a prayer of deployment in a home theater product priced < $15K!

With Sony going to SURE pricing, I don't see why people are thinking they are going to come out with 4K at less than half (10K) what the VW1000ES is going to street for starting next month. I could be completely wrong, but it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

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post #29 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 07:13 PM
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With Sony going to SURE pricing, I don't see why people are thinking they are going to come out with 4K at less than half (10K) what the VW1000ES is going to street for starting next month. I could be completely wrong, but it sounds like wishful thinking to me.

I am starting to have my doubts about this new Red projector. In less than 6 months they are supposed to have this dream projector for less than $10K. I hope its true
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post #30 of 691 Old 05-21-2012, 07:19 PM
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I am starting to have my doubts about this new Red projector. In less than 6 months they are supposed to have this dream projector for less than $10K. I hope its true

Could be wrong on this one, but I would not be holding my breath, waiting for it.

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