4K Sony VW1000 and Barco owners: TimeScapes in 4K is now available! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-31-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted previously about hosting the world 4K premiere of my friend Tom Lowe's film TimeScapes here, which I described as "spellbindingly transporting, meditative, and primordial - a truly elemental and entrancing masterwork from a bold new visionary."

For all you VW1000 owners, the time is now here that you can purchase TimeScapes in 4K to view on your 4K projectors! And for those of you who have the VW1000 in your sights, you now have a very compelling reason to jump in. The upscaling engine in the Sony is great, but let me tell you, viewing proper 4K content on this project takes things into a whole other realm of experience!

Go here to purchase the first 4K film available to consumers:
http://timescapes.org/products/default.aspx

Here is Gizmodo's post today - "super-duper-awesometastic-high-quality Cineform 4:2:2 format" is no hyperbole:
http://gizmodo.com/5914426/the-first...y-breathtaking

The extra cost for the Cineform file is well worth it, as it runs at a bitrate of around 4GB/minute. Feed the Sony some insanely high quality 4K material and behold!

Cineform is an incredible codec (free download here) and will run smoothly on many machines, likely smoother than the mp4 file offered. At CES and NAB, Sony used 4K Cineform files off a stock Intel Sandy Bridge i7 desktop with a DVS Atomix card (at the time the only 4K enabled HDMI port) to play their demo content of the VW1000. I am running everything off a custom built PC outputting 4K over HDMI using the AMD/ATI Radeon 7970 with Windows Media Player Classic.

With TimeScapes, the Sony VPL-VW1000 finally has some proper demo material! Congrats to Tom and everyone who worked on this landmark film.

TimeScapes 4K trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-GYrbecb88
Timescapes: Rapture 4K http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKXcQ9PLuc



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post #2 of 15 Old 05-31-2012, 11:30 PM
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If I had the hardware I might be tempted to go for the cineform version but my 4k PC does not really like average bitrates above 300 as I have a lower powered card and CPU.
So the 4k stick it is for me.
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 02:26 AM
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Hi fugueness,

I will try to get them offer me a Cineform download. How does the Sony deal with the 4096 x 2304 resolution - simple (vertical) crop or is any downsampling going on (which would be very bad)? Is the AMD/ATI card able to output in 12bit (@ 4k)?

Is there any trailer/sample of the cineform encode available to test?

Thank you very much!
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Is the AMD/ATI card able to output in 12bit (@ 4k)?

Hi, TheLion. This interests me too. Let's try searching the web.
1) http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx
Quote:


■Cutting-edge integrated display support
◦DisplayPort 1.2
Max resolution: 4096x2160 per display
Multi-Stream Transport
21.6 Gbps bandwidth
High bit-rate audio
2560x1600p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support
◦HDMI® (With 4K, 3D, Deep Color and x.v.Color)
Max resolution: 4096x2160
1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
Quad HD/4k video support
◦Dual-link DVI with HDCP
Max resolution: 2560x1600
◦VGA
Max resolution: 2048x1536

Nothing about 12-bit output. But in the footnotes we read:
Quote:


Additional hardware (e.g. Blu-ray drive, HD or 10-bit monitor, TV tuner) and/or software (e.g. multimedia applications) are required for the full enablement of some features.

Note that they doesn't say 12-bit monitor. Is it because they don't exist yet or because 12-bit output is not supported? It is not clear. And I believe single HDMI output won't give enough bandwidth for 4K 12-bit. DisplayPort or multiple HDMI will.

Professional cards from nVidia and AMD are stated to support 12-bit output. But they don't support 4K yet.
http://www.amd.com/RU/PRODUCTS/WORKS.../v9800p.aspx#4
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...output_us.html
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Hi, TheLion. This interests me too. Let's try searching the web.
1) http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

Nothing about 12-bit output. But in the footnotes we read:
Note that they doesn't say 12-bit monitor. Is it because they don't exist yet or because 12-bit output is not supported? It is not clear. And I believe single HDMI output won't give enough bandwidth for 4K 12-bit. DisplayPort or multiple HDMI will.

Professional cards from nVidia and AMD are stated to support 12-bit output. But they don't support 4K yet.
http://www.amd.com/RU/PRODUCTS/WORKS.../v9800p.aspx#4
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...output_us.html

I've read somewhere that PS3 is able to output 12-bit, but I highly doubt it.

Also, RED Ray is going to support both 4K and 12-bit and will be out later this year for around 1000$ So they say. But I'm sure there are other professional solutions capable of outputting 4k@12-bit.
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Hi, TheLion. This interests me too. Let's try searching the web.
1) http://www.amd.com/us/products/deskt...deon-7970.aspx

Nothing about 12-bit output. But in the footnotes we read:
Note that they doesn't say 12-bit monitor. Is it because they don't exist yet or because 12-bit output is not supported? It is not clear. And I believe single HDMI output won't give enough bandwidth for 4K 12-bit. DisplayPort or multiple HDMI will.

Professional cards from nVidia and AMD are stated to support 12-bit output. But they don't support 4K yet.
http://www.amd.com/RU/PRODUCTS/WORKS.../v9800p.aspx#4
http://www.nvidia.com/object/product...output_us.html

Hi,

yeah, lots of open issue - we are at the forefront of home entertainment here ;-) If 4096x2160 is the max output resolution (as per HDMI spec) the graphic card/video renderer has to deal with the 4096 x 2304 resolution of this content. I would need a test file to see how this is handled exactly (cropping versus downsampling).

The other interesting question is whether the cineform encoding is in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 format (which at least has no implications regarding graphic card output as long as it is RGB).
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Hi,

yeah, lots of open issue - we are at the forefront of home entertainment here ;-) If 4096x2160 is the max output resolution (as per HDMI spec) the graphic card/video renderer has to deal with the 4096 x 2304 resolution of this content. I would need a test file to see how this is handled exactly (cropping versus downsampling).

The other interesting question is whether the cineform encoding is in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 format (which at least has no implications regarding graphic card output as long as it is RGB).

You may either downscale or crop if you will be using HTPC. Cropping will get you sharper picture, of course, but it will be cropped %)
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

I posted previously about hosting the world 4K premiere of my friend Tom Lowe's film TimeScapes here, which I described as "spellbindingly transporting, meditative, and primordial - a truly elemental and entrancing masterwork from a bold new visionary."

For all you VW1000 owners, the time is now here that you can purchase TimeScapes in 4K to view on your 4K projectors! And for those of you who have the VW1000 in your sights, you now have a very compelling reason to jump in. The upscaling engine in the Sony is great, but let me tell you, viewing proper 4K content on this project takes things into a whole other realm of experience!

Go here to purchase the first 4K film available to consumers:
http://timescapes.org/products/default.aspx

Here is Gizmodo's post today - "super-duper-awesometastic-high-quality Cineform 4:2:2 format" is no hyperbole:
http://gizmodo.com/5914426/the-first...y-breathtaking

The extra cost for the Cineform file is well worth it, as it runs at a bitrate of around 4GB/minute. Feed the Sony some insanely high quality 4K material and behold!

Cineform is an incredible codec (free download here) and will run smoothly on many machines, likely smoother than the mp4 file offered. At CES and NAB, Sony used 4K Cineform files off a stock Intel Sandy Bridge i7 desktop with a DVS Atomix card (at the time the only 4K enabled HDMI port) to play their demo content of the VW1000. I am running everything off a custom built PC outputting 4K over HDMI using the AMD/ATI Radeon 7970 with Windows Media Player Classic.

With TimeScapes, the Sony VPL-VW1000 finally has some proper demo material! Congrats to Tom and everyone who worked on this landmark film.

TimeScapes 4K trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-GYrbecb88
Timescapes: Rapture 4K http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgKXcQ9PLuc




And you guarantee this will play on the VW1000 with a proper PC? I hope so as a friend of mine just bought the Cineform versjon based on your post...

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

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post #9 of 15 Old 06-01-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

I am running everything off a custom built PC outputting 4K over HDMI using the AMD/ATI Radeon 7970 with Windows Media Player Classic.

Maybe I missed it but what are the specs of your PC? Also does the graphics card fan rive up when playing 4K?
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

If I had the hardware I might be tempted to go for the cineform version but my 4k PC does not really like average bitrates above 300 as I have a lower powered card and CPU.
So the 4k stick it is for me.

What kind of hardware do you have? 4K Cineform 422 will play back smoothly on more than you might think...
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post #11 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

Maybe I missed it but what are the specs of your PC? Also does the graphics card fan rive up when playing 4K?

Sandy Bridge i7 3960X with 32GB RAM, but any modern PC can play it. Even a laptop could handle it (although 4K output would be a different issue). Graphics card fan isn't noisy during playback.
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post #12 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Hi fugueness,

I will try to get them offer me a Cineform download. How does the Sony deal with the 4096 x 2304 resolution - simple (vertical) crop or is any downsampling going on (which would be very bad)? Is the AMD/ATI card able to output in 12bit (@ 4k)?

Is there any trailer/sample of the cineform encode available to test?

Thank you very much!

The 4096 x 2304 file works beautifully on the Sony. The film is 1.78 so no cropping.
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post #13 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Hi,

yeah, lots of open issue - we are at the forefront of home entertainment here ;-) If 4096x2160 is the max output resolution (as per HDMI spec) the graphic card/video renderer has to deal with the 4096 x 2304 resolution of this content. I would need a test file to see how this is handled exactly (cropping versus downsampling).

The other interesting question is whether the cineform encoding is in 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 format (which at least has no implications regarding graphic card output as long as it is RGB).

Walter, the Cineform file is 422. HDMI 4K is 422 YUV, so there is no benefit in going to a 444 file (which would require RAID or SSD for smooth playback) here.
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post #14 of 15 Old 06-04-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post



And you guarantee this will play on the VW1000 with a proper PC? I hope so as a friend of mine just bought the Cineform versjon based on your post...

Yes, 4:2:2 4K 24p will play off of most modern PCs.
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post #15 of 15 Old 06-05-2012, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

What kind of hardware do you have? 4K Cineform 422 will play back smoothly on more than you might think...

I think I have an I3 and a 7770 ATI card on a Z68 chipset board, not sure about that.
I will certainly test the cineform when a short test clip is available but from what I have seen from the 1440p download on my main PC after a rather disappointing experience on another one is that it already looks so good that everybody who sees the "normal" 4k version will be thrilled.
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