Been out of the buying loop for a long while - is 3D now worth the upgrade? - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 141 Old 06-28-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

I apologize for my ignorance, but, I've been wondering... have 3D projectors truly arrived yet?
The last time I checked in here, maybe a year and a half back, the feedback on 3D projectors boiled down to one phrase - "not worth it yet." There were major compromises in picture quality for 2D and the 3D was underwhelming and inconsistent. Has this changed?
I currently has a JVC RS1 and 100" Stewart Film screen, which delivers an exceptionally beautiful picture. If I had 8-10K to spend on a 3D projector, would I get one with an equally excellent 2D picture as well as great 3D? I saw The Avengers last night and I thought, maybe it's time to make the switch.
What's the consensus out there now?
Thanks for any input.

I think passive 3D is the only way to go. I love 3D and I have the Epson 3010 and a LG flatpanel that both support 3D. I find the low framerate on the Epson (active system) to be a major distraction. Perhaps the 5010 is better as it supports frame smoothing. But I love the LG and would buy it again in a heartbeat. BTW, I cant wait to see the new Spiderman in 3D!!
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post #122 of 141 Old 06-28-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I do the same exact thing with my electric screen. I just shift the image up so that the first bar is over the screen and the bottom bar is on my black wall. I can not see any bars on the top and bottom since my wall is black. It works perfect for me. Also, not every film is in the 2.4:1 format. So, it works out for me at least. I watch a lot of sports and play ps3 from time to time. I rather have a big 16:9 image rather than a really small image watching the game. So, it makes 3D better with the bigger picture.

I agree, I don't see what they are fussing about. I have seen a motorized screen and played around with it and didn't notice any symmetry issues with the way it looked when changing aspects.


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post #123 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Mike, I know you have both the Lumagen and the Darbee, but how to they compare against one another. Say with HDTV and blu ray. I bet together they are a lethal combination.

Sorry, I missed this post. The Darbee and Lumagen work great together. I let the Lumagen do all the scaling and calibration and the Darbee is added afterwords for added sharpness and increase of contrast. You can clearly see the strengths of both at work.

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post #124 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 10:43 AM
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When will we get to become a little familiar with the 2013 lines of JVC, Sony, Panasonic, Epson and Mitsu 2D/3D projectors? I guess I am okay with my RS45, but my next 2D/3D projector better have a vast improvement over the current crop of mediocre 3D ghosting-ridden projectors. Sure the Sony can be slighlty better than the the JVC with Ghosting, and the JVC can be slightly better than the Panasonic in overall 3D contrast and blacks. But I think after 4 years of retail 3D telivision and projector sales, we finally need one that is more than just acceptable. I need a projector that does not need 20 minutes to warm up only for the ghosting to still somewhat be visible in some scenes over other scenes. This technology has to improve by now, its been well over 3 years! When will we see a drastic difference in quality? will it be this fall?
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post #125 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 11:54 AM
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September.

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post #126 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 12:09 PM
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Damnsam.

You should maybe think of dual projector setup if you want no ghosting.

I have been playing with the omega filter and there is no ghosting.
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post #127 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

September.

Let's hope so!

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post #128 of 141 Old 07-11-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

When will we get to become a little familiar with the 2013 lines of JVC, Sony, Panasonic, Epson and Mitsu 2D/3D projectors? I guess I am okay with my RS45, but my next 2D/3D projector better have a vast improvement over the current crop of mediocre 3D ghosting-ridden projectors. Sure the Sony can be slighlty better than the the JVC with Ghosting, and the JVC can be slightly better than the Panasonic in overall 3D contrast and blacks. But I think after 4 years of retail 3D telivision and projector sales, we finally need one that is more than just acceptable. I need a projector that does not need 20 minutes to warm up only for the ghosting to still somewhat be visible in some scenes over other scenes. This technology has to improve by now, its been well over 3 years! When will we see a drastic difference in quality? will it be this fall?

I know you won't do a two projector set up because of your theater, but I think you are going to have to move from JVC to get great 3D. I sold my RS55 to get an early jump on the new JVC models. I got a Benq W7000 to hold me over. I have to admit, the JVC models made me question 3D because of the warm up period, eye fatigue, ghosting, and brightness issues. I would just rather watch the 2D version. But the 3D on the w7000 is amazing. It made me think completely different about 3D. The 3D I watched on the RS40 and 55 can't compete with the w7000. I'm glad I took the chance. Also, I don't have to worry about any bulb dimming also and sports are bright and vivant. However, 2D blu rays are a drop off, but I'm able to do a 2 projector set up. I miss the JVC and can't wait to get a new model.
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post #129 of 141 Old 08-23-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Really interesting. If this is the consensus, I guess I'll hang onto my money for a few more years.

As someone else said, it is "not" the consensus. It is an opinion. I like 3D and have the Acer 9500. Acer just released a firmware update and it now has 1:1 pixel mapping (razor sharp HDMI image) and a color management system. The update also fixed a SBS video tearing problem many gamers (I'm not one of them) experienced. The Acer also has a lens shift (limited, but workable for me). If you like DLP (not everyone does) and aren't too sensitive to the rainbow effect (RBE), the Acer is a dynamite projector if you have good light control. If you can't control the light, you might be better off with one of the light cannons mentioned. I like "going to the movies" at home in a controlled light environment and the Acer just shreds. I picked mine up for under $1500 with no shipping and no tax (currently $1,699 no tax and no shipping so it's about $600 cheaper than the BenQ7000...also supposed to be pretty good). We haven't done head to head with the new Acer firmware, but it would be nice to do so.

If you like 3D, take the plunge. If you don't, then it's worthless to you, but I wouldn't listen to people who make blanket statements like "3D sucks". Some of us like it and, if you are one of those people who do like 3D, you can pick up a really nice projector for under $2K. I'm very, very happy with the Acer at this point. I had to go through some gyrations, but at this point, I think it's a great deal. I've read reviews on the Panny (about $2600) which say it has a ghosting issue. Look at some of the head to head reviews.

I'm also a DLP fan....not everyone is....

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post #130 of 141 Old 08-23-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Gradius2 View Post

Let's hope so!

Technically we will know more once the German show starts in a few days. smile.gif
Yes I know, I am correcting myself. smile.gif

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post #131 of 141 Old 08-23-2012, 08:34 PM
 
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My Sony VPL-vw1000ES, is plenty bright in 3D on my 110" Diag 1.0 gain with no ghosting. I am there and seek no further improvement in 3D. The single projector consumer class projectors trade light for increase ghosting. Solutions are running at high color temperatures or using high gain screens.
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post #132 of 141 Old 08-24-2012, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

My Sony VPL-vw1000ES, is plenty bright in 3D on my 110" Diag 1.0 gain with no ghosting. I am there and seek no further improvement in 3D. The single projector consumer class projectors trade light for increase ghosting. Solutions are running at high color temperatures or using high gain screens.

I am SURE a projector that costs this much would kick my front teeth out and I'd be willing to find out, but can't afford to......

What's affordable is different based our situation. I found a PJ (Acer 9500) for under $1500 (no tax and no shipping....now it's $1699) which looks dang good to me. With the firmware update, it looks even better. Clearly it's not in the $20K or so class. In a few years, I'm going to make a major plunge, but I'll be looking for a major resolution increase and so on. The great thing about technology is that it just seems to get better and better and cheaper. Hope it continues.

(Edit....I don't have any ghosting either)

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post #133 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 06:07 AM
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Compared the Sony HW30 I believe is model it ghosted, so did the JVC which shocked me which we all know how good the JVC quality is. The Epson's 3010,5010 and 6010 the brightest and most colorful but also ghosted, they had the least amount of ghosting but it was still evident. Ended up getting the Benq best performer still has its issues but NO I mean NO GHOSTING!!! Not anyware. I almost got the 5010 Epson which is a great performer and ghosting was so minimal basically during fast scenes, and on the background of the pic, like I said very so very slight, some may not pick it up at all but I did!!!! Refresh rates are very important in 3D performance DLP's refresh at 10,000 hz V.S. 480hz that epson do that in its self explains the no ghosting ability of DLP's.
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post #134 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

My Sony VPL-vw1000ES, is plenty bright in 3D on my 110" Diag 1.0 gain with no ghosting. I am there and seek no further improvement in 3D. The single projector consumer class projectors trade light for increase ghosting. Solutions are running at high color temperatures or using high gain screens.

I think you should send me a unit to inspect Mark. I have no doubt I will find the ghosting. biggrin.gif Have you tried the usual suspects such as Giants of Patagonia, 3d games, etc...?

Better yet, send one to Zombie and lets really see how the 1000 does with ghosting. cool.gif

I am sure the 1000 is one mind blowing projector, but ghost free as in totally ghost free like a single chip DLP I cant buy.

As far as trading light for increased ghosting I assume you mean more light=more noticeable ghosting, but that would not seem to be the case with the Epson 5010 since it has some of the brightest 3d AND least ghosting vs its non DLP competition. What is Epson doing so right to get both? Not that the Epson is ghost free from the reports, but it seems to closer then anything else in the non DLP camp and has the brightness as well. confused.gif

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #135 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 11:08 AM
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... I've read reviews on the Panny (about $2600) which say it has a ghosting issue.

I have read the same reviews. I also have a PT-AE7000U and have no idea what this "ghosting issue" is all about.

Sometimes people exist simply to stir up a pot of ***. Perhaps it makes them feel important. By all means read the reviews but decide for yourself.
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post #136 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 11:59 AM
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I have read the same reviews. I also have a PT-AE7000U and have no idea what this "ghosting issue" is all about.
Sometimes people exist simply to stir up a pot of ***. Perhaps it makes them feel important. By all means read the reviews but decide for yourself.
No pot stirring here. Is a fact LCD based panel tho have gotten better hence the Epson and the Panny with their 480hz panels do still have ghosting or crosstalk what ever the poison of description may it be. It's minimal mostly in background scenes and outer edges. These are the better of the LCD base panel that reduce the artifact. Lcos or SXBR either or which ever one likes to see it by or call it is my favorite displays is the worst with the artifact. But I imagine this will soon be rectified by both systems.
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post #137 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 6sj7gt View Post

I have read the same reviews. I also have a PT-AE7000U and have no idea what this "ghosting issue" is all about.
Sometimes people exist simply to stir up a pot of ***. Perhaps it makes them feel important. By all means read the reviews but decide for yourself.

its an issue for people. I found both my JVC projectors good with 3D. I didn't notice ghosting a lot. it was the eye fatigue and flickering that bothered me. my acer H5360 made me sick watching it in 3D and that had no ghosting. the Benq W7000 is about as good as it gets and its easy on the eyes and brain.
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post #138 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

its an issue for people. I found both my JVC projectors good with 3D. I didn't notice ghosting a lot. it was the eye fatigue and flickering that bothered me. my acer H5360 made me sick watching it in 3D and that had no ghosting. the Benq W7000 is about as good as it gets and its easy on the eyes and brain.

I haven't seen the BenQ, but if you are rainbow effect sensitive, the Acer 9500 has a 4X color wheel and that may be an issue. I have the Acer and the SBS tearing, HDMI blurring, and lack of a color management system has been addressed with the new firmware update. It's also about $600 less than the BenQ (not a big deal if you think the BenQ is better). I suspect I'm one of those people who don't get sick, don't see RBE, just plain flat out like the DLPs, etc. The ghosting isn't that big of a deal, but I even see it at the IMAX (real IMAX.....not fake mini/lie Max). I only notice it now because I have a DLP that has no ghosting.

Not trying to stir anything up. Just trying to let people know how I see things.

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post #139 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 09:32 PM
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There is ~ $350 difference between the 9500 and W7000 (Tiger direct / Amazon). The stand-out feature of the W7000 is the full lens shift. This is a must-have for those with the high power screen. ~1100 lumens at nearly 3.x gain is a good thing for 3D brightness. smile.gif

There are certain 3D movies that are brutal on 3D projectors. The 3D DLP's can handle this difficult content with zero crosstalk flaws.

Dino3D.jpg

Dino3D1.jpg
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post #140 of 141 Old 08-25-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There is ~ $350 difference between the 9500 and W7000 (Tiger direct / Amazon). The stand-out feature of the W7000 is the full lens shift. This is a must-have for those with the high power screen. ~1100 lumens at nearly 3.x gain is a good thing for 3D brightness. smile.gif
There are certain 3D movies that are brutal on 3D projectors. The 3D DLP's can handle this difficult content with zero crosstalk flaws.
Dino3D.jpg
Dino3D1.jpg

Thanks for the correction. Amazon doesn't charge tax which brings the cost between the Acer (Tiger @ $1599 total) and the BenQ (Amazon @ $1983 total) to a shade under $400. You do get a $70 pair of glasses with the Acer. That works out to about a $450 difference rather than $600.

I have no doubt about your comments above and appreciate the details. I'm rocking the Acer, a 120" 1.1 gain screen in a light controlled room, have never seen a rainbow (except in the sky), and even the last Harry Potter 3D blu ray looks plenty bright to me. Others have different requirements and no single size fits all. I'd love to check out the BenQ, but I'm the only one I know who has anything close to the setup that I do.

Not everyone will be happy with the Acer, BenQ, Optoma, Sony, etc. With the firmware update Acer has just released, I'm more than satisfied and am sure owners of other PJs feel exactly the same way. I'm looking forward to what's coming down the road for us. I really like the look of the DLP (the sharpness of the image and color) and the absolute lack of ghosting is cool too.

Thanks for sharing all of your expertise. I've appreciated the opportunity to learn a lot from you and others.

(Edit....never saw "Dinosaurs Alive 3D"....that looks like quality entertainment smile.gif )

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post #141 of 141 Old 08-26-2012, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

its an issue for people. I found both my JVC projectors good with 3D. I didn't notice ghosting a lot. it was the eye fatigue and flickering that bothered me. my acer H5360 made me sick watching it in 3D and that had no ghosting. the Benq W7000 is about as good as it gets and its easy on the eyes and brain.
Well said it is an issue with people not everyone is going to experience the same thing. If the Epson was clean and I do mean clean with 3D like the Benq I would have gone with the Epson, its a light cannon with superb color accuracy, but I could pick out the crosstalk I hate that I'm that sensitive but unfortunately I'am.
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