Been out of the buying loop for a long while - is 3D now worth the upgrade? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 141 Old 06-10-2012, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I apologize for my ignorance, but, I've been wondering... have 3D projectors truly arrived yet?

The last time I checked in here, maybe a year and a half back, the feedback on 3D projectors boiled down to one phrase - "not worth it yet." There were major compromises in picture quality for 2D and the 3D was underwhelming and inconsistent. Has this changed?

I currently has a JVC RS1 and 100" Stewart Film screen, which delivers an exceptionally beautiful picture. If I had 8-10K to spend on a 3D projector, would I get one with an equally excellent 2D picture as well as great 3D? I saw The Avengers last night and I thought, maybe it's time to make the switch.

What's the consensus out there now?

Thanks for any input.

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post #2 of 141 Old 06-10-2012, 10:19 PM
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No it sucks. 2D is still the best way to watch movies.
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post #3 of 141 Old 06-10-2012, 10:46 PM
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Is there a way to have a two projector set up? One for 2D and the other for 3D
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post #4 of 141 Old 06-10-2012, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

No it sucks. 2D is still the best way to watch movies.

Really interesting. If this is the consensus, I guess I'll hang onto my money for a few more years.

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post #5 of 141 Old 06-10-2012, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Really interesting. If this is the consensus, I guess I'll hang onto my money for a few more years.

Many love 3D. I'm more of a 2D guy and i watch 2D about 95% compared to 3D at 5%. However, I'm about to watch a lot of 3D the next couple of weeks. I sold my JVC RS55, which is an excellent 2D projector for blu rays and some 3D blu rays. I was 100% satisfied with it, but i got a good offer on it, so i decided to get a Benq W7000 for sports and 3D, then upgrade to a new JVC in December. So, i would count out 3D, but if you have extra to spend and want better 2D, try a newer JVC, you will get ok 3D and great 2D.
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post #6 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Really interesting. If this is the consensus, I guess I'll hang onto my money for a few more years.
That's not the consensus. Some folks hate 3D with a passion, and will never consider it a viable form of entertainment.

There are a number of 2012 models that are very good-to-excellent 3D projectors. The Epson 5010 is probably the best LCD 3D projector. It's insanely bright, features great contrast and deep black level, and has very little 3D crosstalk and ghosting. The BenQ W7000 is the best DLP 3D projector, and throws a bright, razor-sharp image. From all indications, it has zero crosstalk or ghosting.

Neither projector will throw as good a 2D image as your JVC, but they serve as excellent companions as a 3D unit.
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post #7 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Really interesting. If this is the consensus, I guess I'll hang onto my money for a few more years.

Buying a 3D projector is pretty much inevitable if you're curious about it but if you want to avoid wasting money on the chance you don't like it then buy a projector with better 2D than what you already have.
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post #8 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 02:02 AM
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If you have the right projector and content, 3d is a lot of fun. I enjoy it.
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post #9 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the quick replies.

I could never buy a projector with inferior 2D performance to what I have. I could, maybe, talk myself into buying a projector with better 2D performance than what I have that also happens to do 3D (even knowing that the 3D will not look as could as the 2D).

What's the name of the new JVC coming out in December, if it is known?
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post #10 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Is there a way to have a two projector set up? One for 2D and the other for 3D

No. Not a realistic option.

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post #11 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 08:48 AM
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At the present time, the projectors in your reach would be the JVC RS55, RS45, Sony vw 95 or Mitsubishi 9000. The two least expensive of this group is the RS45 and Mits. I see terrific deals on both quite often. If thinking of the vw95, I would opt for the Mits, they use similar panels.
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post #12 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nirvy111 View Post

Buying a 3D projector is pretty much inevitable if you're curious about it but if you want to avoid wasting money on the chance you don't like it then buy a projector with better 2D than what you already have.

By the way, I have trouble believing that, even if I spend 8-10K today, I will get noticeably better 2D performance than my RS1 already delivers. This is part of what keeps me from upgrading, even after 5 years.

Would a projector today really be much better? If not, it's really hard to justify for the novelty of less than great 3D.

The only clear improvement I can imagine making on my RS1 would be to get an actual widescreen (2.40:1) and an anamorphic lens. But that's gonna cost a lot more than 8-10K if I also get a new projector.

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post #13 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 11:58 AM
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Well, the newer projectors will be much brighter if you need any extra brightness, and they will be sharper unless you got really lucky on your RS1 and have near perfect convergence. They will also have better blacks, so yes there is a high chance it will be better. How much better will be in the eye of the beholder, so no-one can say for sure what you perceive, for me it would be a sizable improvement.


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post #14 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 12:22 PM
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I had the rs40 before the rs55, i thought it was a major upgrade. I would think the rs40 would outperform the rs1. If you not sold on 3d, then i would wait to see what improvements JVC make to their projectors in September. Or go for a rs65 if you have 8k to spend
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post #15 of 141 Old 06-11-2012, 03:04 PM
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I just upgraded from an almost a 5 year old Sony vpl vw60 (black pearl) to a JVC rs40 b stock from AVS and I definetly see a major improvements from similar priced projectors almost 5 years apart. Although not a night and day difference from the Sony, which I thought was great the newer JVC is brighter, sharper, better contrast and I still can't get over the blacks. If I had to put a number on it I would say about a 35% to 40% overall improvement. I originally paid $3800.00 for the Sony & just sold it on EBAY for $850.00 & I paid $1749.00 for the JVC so in the end the JVC came out to $899.00. If I can keep doing the B stock every 4 years or so I think it makes good economic sense, whatever I get at the time will should be a pretty good improvement. BTW I have a Panamorph 380 anamorphic lense & a 120 curved screen I would highly recommend going 2:35 for your upgrade. Good luck in your search.
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post #16 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 02:50 AM
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Recently upgraded my Sony HS20 to the Epson 6010, great image upgrade with excellent 3D to boot, and installed was $100 less than what I had paid for my older pj a few years back. Your upgrade isn't going to be as much an improvement as mine was, and maybe worth waiting to see next years improvements. However, I think if you can get the added 3D feature that performs well, with an excellent 2D image on a new pj, then why not? I've been very pleased with my upgrade. Even though I haven't watched a lot of 3D content, it's been a very enjoyable experience when I do. I'm sure if we wait a few years, we'll be asking if holograms have truly arrived.
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post #17 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

By the way, I have trouble believing that, even if I spend 8-10K today, I will get noticeably better 2D performance than my RS1 already delivers. This is part of what keeps me from upgrading, even after 5 years.
Would a projector today really be much better? If not, it's really hard to justify for the novelty of less than great 3D.
The only clear improvement I can imagine making on my RS1 would be to get an actual widescreen (2.40:1) and an anamorphic lens. But that's gonna cost a lot more than 8-10K if I also get a new projector.


You should give us a call. smile.gif
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post #18 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 10:05 AM
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A modern JVC/Sony will blow an RS1 out of the water in 2D and you'll get 3D to boot as a bonus. IMHO

Sharper, better colors, higher contrast, better motion, brighter - these are all 2D improvements.
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post #19 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 05:30 PM
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I don't get all the 3D bashing. Most new PJs and flat screens include 3D, so it's your choice to add glasses and buy the 3D BDs. Movies like Avatar and Prometheus were made for 3D. Why would you want to watch them any other way. Granted, Avatar is still not out for general release, but that will change soon. Too much money to be made to wait past this Holiday season. Prometheus will make it to BD on Oct. 9th. Tons of other good 3D material too like IMAX stuff, animation, and action flicks.

Most people are negative towards 3D because they haven't really experienced it done right in a home theater. You need the right projector and glasses. They're not all the same. Some projectors do 3D better than others. There's a long shootout thread comparing the newer 3D projectors. I'd start by reading the begging section. The bottom line is that the best overall 2D/3D values are the Epson and Sony. Each has it's benefits, but I like my Epson because it produces bright 3D which is a must IMHO. The MonsterVision Max 3D glasses are also very good and lighter/more comfortable than most, which helps. I'd avoid the newer JVCs if the upgrade is just for the 3D.

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post #20 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 10:08 PM
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If you've got the money I'd highly suggest doing a 2 projector set up. DLP is really the way to go for 3D. For the most overall clean, bright and noise free 3D it's by far the best technology. For 2D, unless you want to spend a bunch of money on a higher end DLP, LCOS is the way to go. JVC puts out one heck of a value with their RS45 and 55.

Something like Optoma's HD33 or BenQ's W7000 for 3D and something like JVC's DLA-RS45 for 2D would make for a killer setup.
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post #21 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 10:31 PM
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I recently upgraded my projector to the Sony HW30ES. Wasn't really interested in 3D, but now that I have it I absolutely love it. 3D blurays look stunning.
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post #22 of 141 Old 06-12-2012, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I don't get all the 3D bashing. Most new PJs and flat screens include 3D, so it's your choice to add glasses and buy the 3D BDs. Movies like Avatar and Prometheus were made for 3D. Why would you want to watch them any other way. Granted, Avatar is still not out for general release, but that will change soon. Too much money to be made to wait past this Holiday season. Prometheus will make it to BD on Oct. 9th. Tons of other good 3D material too like IMAX stuff, animation, and action flicks.
Most people are negative towards 3D because they haven't really experienced it done right in a home theater. You need the right projector and glasses. They're not all the same. Some projectors do 3D better than others. There's a long shootout thread comparing the newer 3D projectors. I'd start by reading the begging section. The bottom line is that the best overall 2D/3D values are the Epson and Sony. Each has it's benefits, but I like my Epson because it produces bright 3D which is a must IMHO. The MonsterVision Max 3D glasses are also very good and lighter/more comfortable than most, which helps. I'd avoid the newer JVCs if the upgrade is just for the 3D.

When I bought my RS55, I had no desire to use it to watch 3D. I just don't understand why people want to get a new projector that just does 2D because they are not interested in 3D. Well, don't watch it.
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post #23 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

I don't get all the 3D bashing. Most new PJs and flat screens include 3D, so it's your choice to add glasses and buy the 3D BDs. Movies like Avatar and Prometheus were made for 3D. Why would you want to watch them any other way. Granted, Avatar is still not out for general release, but that will change soon. Too much money to be made to wait past this Holiday season. Prometheus will make it to BD on Oct. 9th. Tons of other good 3D material too like IMAX stuff, animation, and action flicks.
Excellent post overall. If you are going to buy a new quality TV or Projector there is quite high propability you're gonna get the 3D as a bonus; then it is up to you if you're gonna use it. There is a pile of very nice 3D content around so why not test it with open mind. Just stay our of 3D made in post-processing, I pertsonally haven't seen single one that is really that impressive.
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

Most people are negative towards 3D because they haven't really experienced it done right in a home theater. You need the right projector and glasses. They're not all the same. Some projectors do 3D better than others. There's a long shootout thread comparing the newer 3D projectors. I'd start by reading the begging section. The bottom line is that the best overall 2D/3D values are the Epson and Sony. Each has it's benefits, but I like my Epson because it produces bright 3D which is a must IMHO. The MonsterVision Max 3D glasses are also very good and lighter/more comfortable than most, which helps. I'd avoid the newer JVCs if the upgrade is just for the 3D.
I'd put a huge emphasis on the "done right" part and expand it a bit further. Creating an optimized 3D experience at home is somewhat more challenging than with 2D. I'm on my 2nd 3D equipped room; the Projector (RS40) has not changed, the room around it has.

The 1st room was light coloured living room with smallish 82 inch screen, a Stewart Greyhawk, that was watched from distance of about 2 x screen width lots of distractions (leds, reflections...) around the screen. Fixed reflections etc. around the screen are IMO the biggest killer of 3D immersion. One could get some idea of what 3D is all about in that space but real immersion and feel just was not there.

Last christmas we moved into new house where I had chance to set up a dedicated, albeit small, room that was set up with "don't break 3D with same issues that in old house" in mind. Nearly full bat cave, bigger 110 inch 16:9 Studiotek 130 screen, around 1.1 x SW viewing distance, with absolutely no distractions whasoever around the screen. Enter the whole new world of 3D enjoyment; 3D IMAX documents just take you to another place and time; I'm a diver and IMAX Under the Sea 3D gives closest feel to real diving that there can be without a wetsuit and mask. I've had maybe 50 people checking out some of the best 3D scenes I have in my 50 or so 3D BR collection and not a single one has been unimpressed and called 3D a gimmick.

Here's how my room looks (pic taken before I had finished masking away sub etc. below the screen...) Nowadays not having 3D available there would take away a significant part of my Home Theater enjoyment.

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post #24 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

A modern JVC/Sony will blow an RS1 out of the water in 2D and you'll get 3D to boot as a bonus. IMHO
Sharper, better colors, higher contrast, better motion, brighter - these are all 2D improvements.

Exactly! RS1 was great like five years ago. LCOS/SXRD projectors have improved (Have you heard of RS2 for example?). If you think the new JVC or Sony 3D projectors have inferior 2D compared to the RS1, you are in for a pleasant surprise.

No need to spend 8 to 10 either.... You can get a newer LCOS/SXRD 3D capable projector with better 2D and 3D as a bonus for $4,000.
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post #25 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 04:21 AM
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No it sucks. 2D is still the best way to watch movies.
- says everyone who can't afford 3D. tongue.gif
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post #26 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 05:41 AM
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- says everyone who can't afford 3D. tongue.gif

3D isn't that expensive anymore, if you go with a flat panel set. Projectors have always been pricier. And if you go with a projector, chances are it's 3D already.

For me, as long as you have to wear glasses, it's still like the 1950's and not worth it.
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post #27 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 05:51 AM
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- says everyone who can't afford 3D. tongue.gif
We have 3D TV, 3D blu-ray player and 3D channels on D*. The glasses just sit. Everyone messed with it for half a movie and a couple of minutes of TV and have never picked the glasses back up.
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post #28 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

When I bought my RS55, I had no desire to use it to watch 3D. I just don't understand why people want to get a new projector that just does 2D because they are not interested in 3D. Well, don't watch it.

+1 I haven't even priced the glasses and the emitter. Cool to have the option though. What I won't do is take a back seat for 2D in order to have 3D.

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3D isn't that expensive anymore, if you go with a flat panel set. Projectors have always been pricier. And if you go with a projector, chances are it's 3D already.
For me, as long as you have to wear glasses, it's still like the 1950's and not worth it.

This is my reason for not jumping in feet first. The glasses really irritate me!!

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We have 3D TV, 3D blu-ray player and 3D channels on D*. The glasses just sit. Everyone messed with it for half a movie and a couple of minutes of TV and have never picked the glasses back up.

This is exactly how it would be here if I wasted the money on the extra equipment. No one would watch it after the first week.
Not trying to bash it as I feel 3D is very cool. However, it's just not something I have to have to enjoy my movies.
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post #29 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 07:48 AM
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Optoma's HD3300 (the step up from HD33) is what I have and it is amazing... I am sure there is "better" but hey, remember in 1985 when NES came out... we all thought that was the coolest thing and looked amazing... we had no clue haha.... for now my HD3300 is wonderful and I love it... sure I will have to upgrade in a few years, but, for now I'm loving it!

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post #30 of 141 Old 06-13-2012, 08:01 AM
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I have yet to hear one person mention the Panasonic AE7000U.

With it's lens shift feature setting up a scope screen would be a breeze. I've heard nothing but good things about it from both a 2D and 3D standpoint. I haven't demo'd many projectors, but this one impressed me enough to make the purchase (getting my room prepared for the install at the moment).

Has anyone with direct experience with any of the other higher-end Sony/JVC/ect.. projectors had a chance to demo the Panny in person? All variables aside, could anyone give some objective input?

At right around a current street price of $2,300 I know this fell below the "$3K+" price point where this thread was posted, but last thing I (and I am sure ANYone else) want is for someone to say their projector outperforms the Panny simply because their unit cost twice the price.

The auto lens shift feature alone could save someone some serious bank by bypassing the need for an anamorphic lens all together.

What could out perform the AE7000U from a 3D/2D performance standpoint that includes an auto lens shift feature?

Thoughts?

 

popalock is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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