anyone seen a runco ls-hb in action? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-13-2012, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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considering a ls-hb or a ls-5, just wondering what you thoughts of the picture if anyone has seen it in action...thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 06-14-2012, 05:45 AM
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I'm very happy with my Planar 8150 (now sold as the Runco LS5), throws a very nice picture. I've never seen the HB, but I'd say which of those you choose would likely have more to do with how much light you need than anything else.

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post #3 of 20 Old 06-14-2012, 09:53 AM
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I saw a demo this week of the LS-HB and LS-10. It was on a stewart high contrast screen with a projected 16x9 image of 135 diagonal. With the lights all the way on in the theater room both projectors were fantastic. With the lights off the LS-HB looked really good. The blacks and contrast level were surprisingly good and the picture depth looked great. I will say that the LS-10 (3chip design) took it to another level with the lights off. The image was absolutely fantastic. I have not been able to see the LS-5 in action but my thought is that it will have performance between the LS-HB and LS-10 for both lights on and lights off viewing. I guess you need to decide
1. How big of a screen to you need to project (that will determine if the LS-5 has enough juice)
2. Are you looking for best lights off experience and as good as you can get with lights on?
3. Are you looking for best lights on experience and as good as you can get with lights off?
4. If you are looking for both can you accept the 20k price tag for the LS-10.....lol

I'd love to hear if anyone has seen the LS-5 and LS-HB side by side. I'd be curious to see how much better the 5 is with lights off than the HB and vice versa with the lights on.
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post #4 of 20 Old 06-15-2012, 11:00 AM
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A little more info on your theater or how you plan to use the PJ would be helpful. I have seen the LS 1, 3, 5, 10, Q750, 1500, D-73d, and VX 22

Basically if you do not need the extra light the 5 will be good, but more info equals a better answer.

David

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post #5 of 20 Old 06-15-2012, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I will also have a tv on the wall so it will be mostly for watching movies, the odd big sports game and some weekly tv watching, I am only going to be about 12 ft throw so I already know I will need a short throw lens for the runco's screen will be 100"....the projector will be in the basement, with only two windows, and maybe watching some stuff with ambient light on when the kids are downstairs....thanks for all you help....
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-15-2012, 01:15 PM
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The HB is twice the calibrated output of the LS-5. If you want light ons or a fair amount of ambient light then the HB would be better IMO, but just depends on how much lihgt. The contrast of the LS-5 is much much better so when the lights are off the 5 is better, with the lights on the HB is better.

David

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post #7 of 20 Old 06-16-2012, 08:35 PM
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Traveler. I'm upgrading to a roughly 130 Diag. 16x9 screen in a room that is 15x 25. I'm strongly considering the LS-HB as that will light up that screen and give me both lights on and lights off viewing. My question is how well will the LS-5 light up that size screen and could I even get a watchable picture with the lights dimmed or with the lights on?
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post #8 of 20 Old 06-17-2012, 12:09 PM
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With a full lit room the 5 will not be enough, however even the HB might not be enough and if it is it will still look washed out... all front projectors looked somewhat washed out with the lights on.

I have a Q-750 and it is calibrated at 435 lumens in normal mode. with all the bells I get about 460 lumens. I use a 1.1 gain 120" dai screen 16:9 and have the proper / recommended light output. Even the 5 will give you well over 20 FL on a 130" screen in high output mode. The HB will give you a light cannon, but much less contrast. If at all possibel look at both. If your dealer has one but not the other ask him to call runco for a demo, they are usually very helpful. If he knws you are going to one of them he will should be willing to help you choose.

as for watchable with the lights on that is a personal opinion. I read about lots people who have these pocket projectors and say how watchable they are with only 2000 calibrated lumens at 110" dia. To me that is unwatcheable but to them they are happy. Again try to see both in person and make an informed decision.

Hope that helps.

David

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post #9 of 20 Old 06-17-2012, 02:53 PM
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I think watchability in a lit room has more to do with how you control you room lighting than just about anything else (save for fancy "black" screens). What I mean is if you're careful with how you light you room you can have good luck with even relatively dim or average projectors.

Case in point, I have a Planar 8150 (essentially the same as the LS-5) and I find it quite watchable with my lights on. But in my case the room is painted very dark, and all the lights are recessed pot lights, all of which are away from the screen. With that setup I can get the seating area quite brightly lit and still have a reasonably good image on the screen.

Now in contrast, if you have a lightly painted room, and full light directly on the screen, even a light canon of a projector will not look good.
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post #10 of 20 Old 06-21-2012, 01:42 PM
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I think this decision should hinge on your definition of "ambient" lighting. As others have said, the LS-HB will have significantly more light output, but at the expense of a substantial bit of contrast (probably a very noticeable difference if you're watching without much ambient light).

I have had an LS-5 for nine months and I agonized over a very similar chioce (was considering a DPI M-Vision with specs similar to the LS-HB). In hindsight, I absolutely made the right decision with the LS-5. I have never once thought "crap, I wish it was brighter." Never. And I don't prefer to watch movies in a black cave - I do have the can lights on at a low level in the back of the room while watching. The clarity and crispness of the single chip DLP is shocking.

Will your screen be 16:9 or 2.37:1? Will it be AT? For reference, my screen is 120" 2.37:1 AT with the projector 18.5' away and it is plenty bright. If you're not going with AT or if you're using positive gain screen, I don't see a reason you'd need the LS-HB unless you're talking about daytime viewing.

Also, the published bulb lives are substantially different (2000 hours for the LS-HB versus 4000 for the LS-5). I would also assume that the HB's bulb is noticeably more expensive because it's much more powerful. You're probably only talking about a few bulbs over the life of the projector, so this price difference probably shouldn't factor into your decision, but I thought I'd point it out.

Good luck with your decision - IMO you're looking at two very capable projectors and won't make a bad choice with either one.

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post #11 of 20 Old 06-25-2012, 02:41 PM
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AirBenji,
What screen and what gain are you currently using? I'm planning on a 16x9 non AT 130 stewart grayhawk screen with about a 20ft throw distance. I have considered maybe moving to a 120inch if that would allow the LS-5 to light it up with all the lights off and with ambient lighting. Again, I am stressing that I am not looking for a perfect picture with the lights on or dimmed, I'm looking for a functional picture that you can still see decent. Then when the lights are off, I want to have a good picture that makes me very happy. I was looking at the Q-750 and it just couldn't quote get enough brightness IMO to the 130 and as soon as there was some abient lighting it became very difficult to see. NOTE: all ambient lighting i am talking about is recessed lighthing that is dimmable in a basement.
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post #12 of 20 Old 06-25-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandcam View Post

AirBenji,
What screen and what gain are you currently using? I'm planning on a 16x9 non AT 130 stewart grayhawk screen with about a 20ft throw distance. I have considered maybe moving to a 120inch if that would allow the LS-5 to light it up with all the lights off and with ambient lighting. Again, I am stressing that I am not looking for a perfect picture with the lights on or dimmed, I'm looking for a functional picture that you can still see decent. Then when the lights are off, I want to have a good picture that makes me very happy. I was looking at the Q-750 and it just couldn't quote get enough brightness IMO to the 130 and as soon as there was some abient lighting it became very difficult to see. NOTE: all ambient lighting i am talking about is recessed lighthing that is dimmable in a basement.

If you think the Q was not enough for lights on, but you think a little more will do the LS-3 and absolutely the 5 will work as the 5 is over twice the calibrated light as a Q-750.

I agree. I cannot watch my Q with lights on in my theater. I can watch with some sun coming in from a window that is not aimed at the screen, but watchable is different to everyone.

David

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post #13 of 20 Old 06-28-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandcam View Post

AirBenji,
What screen and what gain are you currently using? I'm planning on a 16x9 non AT 130 stewart grayhawk screen with about a 20ft throw distance. I have considered maybe moving to a 120inch if that would allow the LS-5 to light it up with all the lights off and with ambient lighting. Again, I am stressing that I am not looking for a perfect picture with the lights on or dimmed, I'm looking for a functional picture that you can still see decent. Then when the lights are off, I want to have a good picture that makes me very happy. I was looking at the Q-750 and it just couldn't quote get enough brightness IMO to the 130 and as soon as there was some abient lighting it became very difficult to see. NOTE: all ambient lighting i am talking about is recessed lighthing that is dimmable in a basement.

Sandcam - My apologies for the slow reply. I have never seen the grayhawk in action, but I know Stewart makes some fantastic surfaces. My screen is a 120" wide 2.37:1 SmX Cineweave HD and I do use an A lens rather than zooming. Their website says the gain is 1.16 but I have never taken any measurements and honestly don't know a whole lot about it. However, I'm pretty sure I have read here on AVS that the measured gain is actually closer to 1.0.

Are you thinking about 120/130" wide or diagonal? Either way, you're looking at a big screen and a relatively long throw distance. Of course this is a matter of personal taste, but when you couple a screen that size with a long throw distance, some ambient lighting and factor in an aging bulb, you might not be 100% happy. The LS-5 is certainly brighter than the Q-750 on day one, but you have to factor in dimming of the bulb as it ages with the LS-5. I don't know - I think that if it were me, I would probably be happy with the LS-5 in your environment. If I have some lights on, I'm not "really" watching and I understand that the picture isn't going to be outstanding. If it's something I really care to watch, I will sit down and give it my attention, which means I don't mind dimming the lights. With the lights dimmed down pretty low in my theater, I have never been unsatisfied with the brightness of the LS-5. The picture is in my opinion ridiculously good, and if it were any brighter I think I would get headaches!

Just some food for thought - you're talking about a decent amount of money here between the projector and screen. I would suggest that you take a step back and clearly define your priorities. Are you sure that the Grayhawk screen meets your goals? Sounds like you're essentially looking for a "watchable" picture with some lights on, and an image that makes you "very happy" when the lights are off. I don't know much about Grayhawk, but it sounds like you might be better off searching for something that will blow you away with the lights off. In my experience, when you try to find a happy medium with this stuff, you can at times find yourself underwhelmed in all categories. Maybe it's best to focus on just one area and get a setup that will really impress in that area. That's a call you have to make...

Finally, if you think you need more light, I would consider the LS-HB or the DPI M-Vision Cine-260 HC. I don't have experience with the DPI, but that was my #2 choice when I bought my projector. Similar pricing, and while you'll have to accept lower contrast, you'll get noticeably more light output.

Good luck!

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post #14 of 20 Old 06-29-2012, 03:43 PM
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the screen will be 133 diagonal 16x9. Grayhawk was selected originally because it will help bring the darks down with the high brightness LS-HB. The look of the LS-HB is great with all the lights on or with moderate lighting. (this will be in a basement so it will only get as bright as I want it to get, plus I will have dimmable zones for the media area, bar area, pool area etc... I'm just nervous that when all of the lights are out in full cinema viewing mode, I am going to not be happy with the black levels and contrast ratio.....but I am afraid that the LS-5 won't be able to cut through moderate ambient lighting but you say it seems to be fine. If you have the time post a pic or two of your lights off and lights on screen. I know I have to take a picture with a grain of salt but I'm more curious to see what your ambient light is like when you say you have a tolerable image. Curious if your idea of ambient or moderate lighting is similar to my idea.
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post #15 of 20 Old 06-30-2012, 07:32 AM
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I don't actually remember which projector this was (my IN76 or my W5000), but both were similar in brightness, if not a little dimmer than my Planar 8150, but it's a pick I had in the gallery here with the lights on:
400

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post #16 of 20 Old 07-02-2012, 06:59 AM
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Will do - I'll grab a pic for you this evening.

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post #17 of 20 Old 07-02-2012, 08:17 AM
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stranger,
thanks for the pic above. I would still consider that a very light controlled room. It looks like everything is painted very dark, there are no windows and you have maybe 2 overhead cans dimmed. I would think most projectors on a reasonably sized screen would be able to throw a pretty decent image in that scenario. What is the diagonal of your screen? What screen type is it? Any idea what the calibrated lumens are of the projector in that pic?

Benji,
looking forward to seeing a pic of lights off, lights dimmed and lights on scenario from you.
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post #18 of 20 Old 07-02-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandcam View Post

stranger,
thanks for the pic above. I would still consider that a very light controlled room. It looks like everything is painted very dark, there are no windows and you have maybe 2 overhead cans dimmed.

There's actually six 3" halogen cans over the seating, but yes they are on a dimmer, well, you know what, good eye, I think that pic is actually from before I replaced the original cans (from the previous owner of the house when it wasn't an HT), I've now got the 6 halogens and you can actually light up the seating area better with less effect on the screen since the new ones are focused more and a bit farther away from the screen (more over the seating).
Quote:
I would think most projectors on a reasonably sized screen would be able to throw a pretty decent image in that scenario. What is the diagonal of your screen? What screen type is it?

It's a 110" wide 2.39:1 SMX.
Quote:
Any idea what the calibrated lumens are of the projector in that pic?

Well it's a Planar 8150 which is the same projector as the Runco LS5 (Runco renamed it when Planar folded their home theater projectors all under the Runco brand).

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post #19 of 20 Old 11-05-2012, 07:24 AM
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So I took the leap of faith and got the LS-HB as a recommendation by my AV integrator. I've got it running in a 26-17 space of a large basement that is setup as more of a media room/bar/pool table etc... The screen is a 16x9 136inch diagonal Stewart Grayhawk RS G3. I can honestly say that I am thrilled with the image this thing puts out. All of the lights it's fantastic. With all of the lights off it's fantastic. I will say that the Adaptive Contrast and SatCo make a huge difference. I have not had it ISF calibrated yet and am eager to see how it shapes up. The only complaint I can see right now is it is very bright. If you prefer a dimmer movie theater image you will need to go with either a huge screen or a different projector. This is more like a massive plasma screen. Detail and sharpness is very good. Black levels are very good and I think the greayscales are great too. Fleshtones seem extremely realistic and motion with sports etc seems very fluid and enjoyable. I would say this is a 10-10 for lights on viewing and a 8 0r 9-10 for lights off viewing. If you are looking for a great all around projector that can do the superbowl party as well as movie night I'd say this one is pretty good. I'd be curious to see it next to something like the Epson 5000/6000 series as that seems to be similar with brightness. I'd be curious to see how Planar's colors and DLP image looks compared to the Epson. I've always liked the look of a runco projector (color and DLP) so for me the decision was pretty easy.
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post #20 of 20 Old 11-05-2012, 06:42 PM
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Congrats. The LS-HB is a great PJ. As you said it is a lot of light and is meant for how you are using it with ambient light.

David

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