PANASONIC PT-RZ470 FULL HD LED LASER - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 286 Old 08-06-2012, 08:47 PM
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I read the review on the new Sim2 150, and the reviewer didn't mention anything about RBE being present, just that the switching speed was high enough that it was a non issue. It would be interesting to get some impressions from people who are really sensitive to RBE on how the Sim2 looks. Granted, it's a $27,000 solution at this time, but give it two or three years, and we'll likely be talking about a similar projector in this section. Maybe this is true of the panasonic, but until we get eyes on, who knows.
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post #92 of 286 Old 08-07-2012, 04:35 AM
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Steve Withers reviewed the 150 for AVF and said:
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As far as the M.150's LED light source is concerned, it would seem that Sim2 have delivered on all the technology's early promise. The LEDs incredibly fast on/off times mean that the M.150 doesn't need a colour wheel and this almost completely eliminates the artefact often referred to as 'rainbows'. There were still very occasional flashes of colour but as one friend pointed out, with images this good, who cares?!

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post #93 of 286 Old 08-07-2012, 04:41 AM
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Cinemas use 3-chip DLPs with high output xenon (IIRC) lamps. There's no wheel, no LEDs. However DLPs are "1-bit" display devices so they use PWM (or something along those lines) to vary the brightness of each color, so they do still flash, regardless of wheel or not. However they flash incredibly quickly (to modulate the intensity).

FWIW, JVC's DiLA uses PWM of a sort too to modulate the intensity as well, though the slower response time of the LCoS panels probably mitigates that somewhat.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #94 of 286 Old 08-07-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Cinemas use 3-chip DLPs with high output xenon (IIRC) lamps. There's no wheel, no LEDs. However DLPs are "1-bit" display devices so they use PWM (or something along those lines) to vary the brightness of each color, so they do still flash, regardless of wheel or not. However they flash incredibly quickly (to modulate the intensity).
FWIW, JVC's DiLA uses PWM of a sort too to modulate the intensity as well, though the slower response time of the LCoS panels probably mitigates that somewhat.

VERY good explanation. I didn't think it would be relevant, but I had a JVC HD250 for a short while and noticed this same effect. I have spoken with a few others that have experienced this with JVC projectors as well.

I have never had any problem with LCD projectors. Interestingly enough, I had a Sony HW30 for a while as well, and didn't notice this effect. I think I read somewhere that Sony uses an analog modulation of some sort...I guess that explains the "no breakup" look with the Sony. I thought I was doomed with LCOS tech for a second there....it just depends on how it's implemented.
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post #95 of 286 Old 08-11-2012, 12:12 AM
 
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Is this really acheiving 3000 lumens in a Cinema setting :-o?
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post #96 of 286 Old 08-11-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talkingparrots View Post

Is this really acheiving 3000 lumens in a Cinema setting :-o?

I'm thinking if any "home" projector is achieving this, the color would be awful, and it might sound like a freight train smile.gif.
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post #97 of 286 Old 09-27-2012, 05:11 AM
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Between the competing DLP LED LASER 1080P Projectors that are going to be on the market soon will the Panasonic PT-RZ 470 be the best to buy ?
BTW ? this projector also supports 3-D.
Those who know about Panasonic's products and projectors are their lens of good quality ?
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post #98 of 286 Old 09-27-2012, 10:12 AM
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i believe it will be high end 1080p laser/led projector
but the price no way easy tongue.gif

why buy pj ??
cost $4k+
black diamond screen (100" ) $2.5k+
rainbow could be there
lagging
noise
PQ no way like led tv
live somehow in cave
lucky no more bulb worries for 15k Hr

and company's not making it cheaper - so they can rise the pj markets with all consideration above rolleyes.gif

with $5k+ what sort of led panel could we buy !!

but I say love the 100"+ with all costs biggrin.gif
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post #99 of 286 Old 09-28-2012, 01:54 AM
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I'm very interested in seeing how much this is going to cost in the UK.

Up until recently $4k in the US usually translated to £3.5k+ in the UK, and these were the sorts of prices I was expecting here.

But some of the pricing for the Viewsonic and ACER LED-Laser hybrid projectors appear to be suggesting a price ratio of closer to 2:1 US:UK.

This would make the Panny, if it is $4k in the US, somewhere closer to £2k in the UK, which would be a totally different kettle of piranha.

£4k is w-a-a-a-a-y out of my price range. But If I'm going to be spending £1,600 or £1,700 anyway then £2k looks very do-able indeed - particularly with the extra brightness and lens shift, etc.

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post #100 of 286 Old 09-28-2012, 07:44 PM
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why i say its not gonna be easy ..
the way i see Acer k750 price Vs Acer H9500BD with the specs - still Acer H9500BD the winner ( not in all terms )
but the price k750 shouldn't be that $2.6k range .. when its mid end projector

think about it this way - the 4k hybrid pj the way soon it will take over pj markets
and 1080p tech will be left behind ...
on the other hand laser/led tech still getting its way with the other products
so 2013 changing year with tech price high
and 2014 i could say the time we buy 1080p laser/led high end one or even 4k ( IMO ) rolleyes.gif

the Acer k750 price will definitely drop down by 2013 somehow to $2k range
2014 they dig the laser/led tech with alot of features and PQ
so no more ordinary bulb to be seen then biggrin.gif
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post #101 of 286 Old 10-18-2012, 12:59 AM
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Regarding pricing and release date.

For the UK 'word' is now 1st week in December, £2,500 ex.VAT (which is £3k inc.VAT).

But that's just street talk. cool.gif Could be wrong.

I'd love it to be right. If this is as good as it might be, I'd spring for the extra £1k.

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post #102 of 286 Old 11-28-2012, 02:20 AM
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Update on that.

UK pricing now likely to be "a bit more, but not a lot".

My guess £3.5k including VAT, give or take.

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post #103 of 286 Old 11-28-2012, 03:07 AM
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Quite a lot. So is this still coming out December 2012 or somewhere 2013?
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post #104 of 286 Old 11-28-2012, 03:04 PM
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INTERESTED TOO.
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post #105 of 286 Old 11-29-2012, 04:50 AM
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Sorry, that was the other thing. Release now due February (UK).

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post #106 of 286 Old 12-02-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

That's exactly what I'd describe the effect was when I saw the Runco LED DLP. But you may be right about LED DLPs not being installed in theaters due to brightness... I just don't know.
The picture did break up into what felt like multiple images when I darted my eyes around w/ the Runco. But they weren't really different colors, like w/ color wheel DLPs. It was mildly annoying but I could probably live with it, unlike color wheel DLPs.

I think we are some of the unfortunate few that see these very particular artifacts. They are not "bad" enough to warrant additional implementation to rid of the problem. 3 chip dlp, or 40X LED color wheel equivalent doesn't matter....I guess there are a few select people (like us, and a few others of course) that will always see this type of thing.

As a matter of fact, I just recently bought a new car, and had a hard time choosing anything because all the new cars nowadays have LED instrument cluster lighting, causing a jittery effect out of the corner of my eye. The future of lighting is possibly LED, which scares me because I see the modulation!!!!!!
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post #107 of 286 Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

I think we are some of the unfortunate few that see these very particular artifacts. They are not "bad" enough to warrant additional implementation to rid of the problem. 3 chip dlp, or 40X LED color wheel equivalent doesn't matter....I guess there are a few select people (like us, and a few others of course) that will always see this type of thing.
As a matter of fact, I just recently bought a new car, and had a hard time choosing anything because all the new cars nowadays have LED instrument cluster lighting, causing a jittery effect out of the corner of my eye. The future of lighting is possibly LED, which scares me because I see the modulation!!!!!!

What frequencies are LEDs typically modulated?

Probably also why I so easily see flicker. 3D flicker, lamp flicker, 60Hz CRT flicker. *sigh*. Sad thing is you can't 'unsee' any of this crap! smile.gif
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post #108 of 286 Old 12-10-2012, 08:45 PM
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this is really crazy,a € 6,059.00...wow

http://www.beamershop24.net/panasonic-beamer/panasonic-pt-rz470e/?utm_source=psmido&utm_medium=psmido&utm_campaign=psmido
I don't know,based on what they have put this estimated price tag?
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post #109 of 286 Old 12-10-2012, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dprojector View Post

this is really crazy,a € 6,059.00...wow
This is madness!
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post #110 of 286 Old 12-11-2012, 01:59 PM
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Madness? This is Sparta!



Sorry, couldn't resist

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post #111 of 286 Old 12-11-2012, 03:22 PM
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It's not gonna be any where close to that. Spoke with our rep at Infocomm in June and pricing that was quoted back then were lower. Getting a demo unit after New years with final pricing. Will update once I do.

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post #112 of 286 Old 01-06-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holmern View Post

It's not gonna be any where close to that. Spoke with our rep at Infocomm in June and pricing that was quoted back then were lower. Getting a demo unit after New years with final pricing. Will update once I do.

Sooou, did u get the demo ? :P
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post #113 of 286 Old 01-06-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

What frequencies are LEDs typically modulated?
Probably also why I so easily see flicker. 3D flicker, lamp flicker, 60Hz CRT flicker. *sigh*. Sad thing is you can't 'unsee' any of this crap! smile.gif

I'm not sure what the frequency is, but when an LED light is at full brightness, the effect almost disappears for me. I think it's because the light is mostly on more than it is off, and there's very little or none of the off cycle happening. To dim an LED light, it has to cycle on and off....so anything but full brightness makes me think I would see it flicker. I don't know if the frequency modulation/speed even matters at that point, because they are already spec'd to be turning on and off instantly.

I have my car's instrument cluster set to full brightness...if I dim it the flicker gets REALLY pronounced. What blows is that at night/dark it automatically notches down in brightness (as not to blind you I guess), and it flickers pretty solidly. So annoying!!!
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post #114 of 286 Old 01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
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With respect to flickering you are talking about PWM (pulse width modulation) dimming. LEDs can also be dimmed simply by reducing the voltage. PWM is technically easier to do, but somewhat less power efficient. I expect a projector to use PWM but it is possible they would go the voltage route instead.

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post #115 of 286 Old 01-07-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW View Post

With respect to flickering you are talking about PWM (pulse width modulation) dimming. LEDs can also be dimmed simply by reducing the voltage. PWM is technically easier to do, but somewhat less power efficient. I expect a projector to use PWM but it is possible they would go the voltage route instead.

I hear ya...I really wish they were all dimmed by reducing voltage, personally. I guess not enough people are affected by this anomaly to raise any general concern. It just doesn't bother that many people when PWM is used, kind of like how RBE isn't a problem for the majority of people.

I, on the other hand, and extremely sensitive to ALL of these characteristics. I hate it, because I'm an AV/tech freak, and LED's seem to be the wave of the future.

As I stated earlier, I'm one of the people who see image splitting/breakup in commercial DLP theaters. I saw it in the hobbit last weekend (the 2D/non-high framerate)...essentially a "standard" viewing. In my mind, this is about as good as it's gonna get in regards to the pinnacle of projection, until a new tech is implemented, such as laser light sources or something. Throw in LED/single DLP chip home projectors into the mix a oh........what a mess (to me of course).
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post #116 of 286 Old 01-07-2013, 01:20 PM
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On the bright side: Samsung at least cycles their LEDs fast enough in their "LED Motion Plus" mode (designed to reduce latent images due to slow liquid crystal response times) that I don't see any flicker on their new higher end Smart TVs. And, as stated above, I'm sensitive to all sorts of flicker/artifacts (Sony HW50 3D mode 48Hz flicker, CRT 60Hz flicker, RBE even with a 6x color wheel, etc.)

So all is not bleak in the land of LED smile.gif
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post #117 of 286 Old 01-09-2013, 12:48 AM
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new video about digital link for these new projectors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okzjSgVwwN4
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post #118 of 286 Old 01-09-2013, 03:38 PM
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There is some bad news from Panasonic regarding using this for HT use. They posted the user manual for the non-3D model online and it mentions several times that the focus is not stable until after 30 mins of operation. It said that due to the heat involved you should wait till then to focus it. I know when I had a pico PJ that the lens warm-up issue drove me crazy, and was the primary reason I returned it. Given that the lens is not powered this would make for a frustrating home theater experience if you have to wait 30 minutes before the movie comes into focus. Maybe in eco or low power mode the heat won't be so bad and the warm-up period will be shorter than what is said in the manual.
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post #119 of 286 Old 01-09-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenStimpy View Post

There is some bad news from Panasonic regarding using this for HT use. They posted the user manual for the non-3D model online and it mentions several times that the focus is not stable until after 30 mins of operation. It said that due to the heat involved you should wait till then to focus it. I know when I had a pico PJ that the lens warm-up issue drove me crazy, and was the primary reason I returned it. Given that the lens is not powered this would make for a frustrating home theater experience if you have to wait 30 minutes before the movie comes into focus. Maybe in eco or low power mode the heat won't be so bad and the warm-up period will be shorter than what is said in the manual.

Isn't focus drift over time common in most projectors? It happens on my Sony HW50ES...
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post #120 of 286 Old 01-09-2013, 04:03 PM
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can you post manual i can't seem to find it?
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