PANASONIC PT-RZ470 FULL HD LED LASER - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

interesting information (IMHO) from this Italian Website about the Panasonic PT-RZ 470 :

287

333


http://www.avmagazine.it/articoli/videoproiettori/655/infocomm-2012-day-1_5.html

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avmagazine.it%2Farticoli%2Fvideoproiettori%2F655%2Finfocomm-2012-day-1_5.html

And first information about those projectors from Panasonic (PT-RZ 470 and PT RZ370) :

http://panasonic.net/avc/projector/infocomm2012/index.html
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post #2 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 03:29 AM
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Looks like a winner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP6zPz5exho
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post #3 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 01:58 PM
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Interesting. Surprised there hasn't been more comments yet.

Doeesn't look like it's for the home market at all right now.

I see this is DLP. Does that mean it still has a color wheel with the LED/laser just the light source? Or is RBE eliminated with the LED?
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post #4 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 02:04 PM
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I think those are business projectors.
Any information about price?
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post #5 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berserk_sun View Post

I think those are business projectors.
Any information about price?
The PT-RZ 470 is for HT since it is a 1080P and 3D ready pj.
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post #6 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscic View Post

Interesting. Surprised there hasn't been more comments yet.
Doeesn't look like it's for the home market at all right now.
I see this is DLP. Does that mean it still has a color wheel with the LED/laser just the light source? Or is RBE eliminated with the LED?
There will be NO RBE on these pjs since they use a combo of Red LED + Blue LED + Green Laser as the primary colors, therefore, no color wheels are needed.
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post #7 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-2001 View Post

There will be NO RBE on these pjs since they use a combo of Red LED + Blue LED + Green Laser as the primary colors, therefore, no color wheels are needed.

I don't think we can say that categorically yet. Although switching speeds will be higher than with a color wheel, as a single chip DLP design this will still display colors sequentially. The best we can say is that RBE is likely to be significantly reduced for the majority of viewers.
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post #8 of 286 Old 06-14-2012, 05:48 PM
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I don't think we can say that categorically yet. Although switching speeds will be higher than with a color wheel, as a single chip DLP design this will still display colors sequentially. The best we can say is that RBE is likely to be significantly reduced for the majority of viewers.

SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED FOR MAJORITY OF VIEWERS

For home theater use I can accept no Rainbow Effect period.

RBE is the big question? I got rid of several DLP projectors and went to LCD's because it drove me crazy. If Panasonic has solved the RBE problem with these laser models then, I will be first in line to purchase one.

I am really hoping the RBE with these models is a non-issue.


Am I going to be disappointed?
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post #9 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 03:25 AM
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Anyone got a ballpark figure on price yet?

Steve W
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post #10 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 03:34 AM
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Would like to know the price as well, along with noise level and if the 20000:1 contrast is native or dynamic.
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post #11 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-2001 View Post

There will be NO RBE on these pjs since they use a combo of Red LED + Blue LED + Green Laser as the primary colors, therefore, no color wheels are needed.

You do not need color wheels to get RBE. When LED/Lasers are used and they sequentially alternate between red, blue and green colors, RBE is still possible. However, some such projectors do this color sequence much faster than can be done with the fastest color wheel (6X max. color wheel speed) and when done fast enough (e.g., up to 48X) the vast majority of people cannot detect RBE. I have no info on how fast this new Panasonic model is doing the RGB sequence and therefore cannot speculate if RBE will be visible or not.

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post #12 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-2001 View Post

The PT-RZ 470 is for HT since it is a 1080P and 3D ready pj.

That used to be the case, but not anymore.

If it were for HT it would have higher claimed CR, not that it would mean anything.

Plus if it were they would say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilt View Post

Would like to know the price as well, along with noise level and if the 20000:1 contrast is native or dynamic.

No way it's native.

I sure hope they do make a HT version, just need to give up some brightness for (native) CR.

I'm more hopeful Panasonic will than Viewsonic; OTOH I believe they've only ever made DLP's for commercial use.
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post #13 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 02:03 PM
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Don't for a moment think EPSON is sleeping
while Panasonic grabs market share and eats their lunch.

Any bets on an Epson Laser/LED at CES?
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post #14 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laredo View Post

Don't for a moment think EPSON is sleeping
while Panasonic grabs market share and eats their lunch.
Any bets on an Epson Laser/LED at CES?

My Cedia curiosity/anticipation just went up considerably after seeing this thread. Surely Panasonic cant be the only one with a laser/led projector to show. smile.gif Very curious about price as well.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #15 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 05:33 PM
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Finally!
This could be the next-level game changer I've been waiting for.
Very interested to see how its black level and native contrast measure up.

Let's pray that it's realistically priced...
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post #16 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 06:30 PM
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Good to see.............Led, Led/Laser, Laser are going to be must have words on projector marketing spiels soon.....other manufacturers can't be too far behind.

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post #17 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

If it were for HT it would have higher claimed CR, not that it would mean anything.
Plus if it were they would say so.

The RZ470 has all the bells and whistles of a HT projector - 3D, lens shift, REC 709 color, full HD.
With its attractive look, it is dificult to say it will not find its way into many HT installations.

Just thinking, Panasonic might want to kill two birds with one stone (viz a viz: one design for both home and commercial markets) in this case.
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post #18 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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You might be right. If the price is right, I might get myself one.
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post #19 of 286 Old 06-15-2012, 09:04 PM
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Their marketing material & video seems to have this projector slated for a different venue than the home, but the including of 3D & Lens shift might indicate otherwise. it's good to see the 3 Pin VESA port, that means it will likely work with the RF glasses.

if I recall correctly, the Casio hybrid was a red led, blue laser, and green was converted by phosphor element. There was no green LED or Laser.

This photo from their youtube video seems to indicate this is using a green laser. That might explain the lumen output since green is the brightest color. The colors are probably off by a mile in the torch mode, but 3000 is still bright if it's true.

ledhybrid.jpg
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post #20 of 286 Old 06-16-2012, 09:19 AM
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So, 20,000:1 contrast, AND a REC709 mode? Very home theater geared for sure.

There was no mention of a dynamic iris, so this is promising. Could possibly mean native contrast. Even if this is the best it can do, it would more than likely have to be in an optimized mode, because torch modes usually are not the best contrast situations.

I.E.: 20000:1, with rec 709 color would be the optimized mode, right?...great!! Now, I wonder what kind of lumens we can expect in this mode????? Things are finally moving forward with the 'mid level' guys and solid state lighting.

Pico projectors with subpar performance and rolls royce priced high end LED projectors (runco) have been around for a while for sure, but I have a feeling that our Panasonic, Epson, Sony, JVC, etc guys are gonna start following along somehow with prices that will start making these things obtainable by average humans. smile.gif
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Approximately 5 years after Luminus Phatlight were used in Samsung rear projectors, there is finally progress in front projectors

The big question: Round or Square Luminus LED designs?

The round design (pictured below) is Luminus latest technology. However Zombie's picture shows the older square LED's in the Panasonic.
Since green is 59% of the total lumens, replacing that color with a more efficient laser make sense.

Perhaps Luminus only developed the 30% more efficient round LEDs because they were losing market share to lasers.

Round LEDs Press Release
Frankfurt, Germany, Light + Building, April 19, 2012 ―Luminus Devices, Inc.,
announced today it will be releasing a family of round LEDs that will accelerate the
adoption of solid-state technology by displacing conventional light sources in high
brightness lighting applications.
“Optical architectures of high power entertainment fixtures are frequently defined by a
circular aperture, so using a traditional square LED was like putting a square peg into a
round hole,” said Don McDaniel, Global Marketing Director for Entertainment Lighting
at Luminus. “Our new round LED increases system-level efficiency by as much as 30%,
enabling our customers to use a single LED to replace a 250W HID lamp.”

Other markets and applications that will benefit from Luminus’ round LED technology
include medical, machine vision, portable and retail spot lighting. “There are obvious
benefits to fiber coupled lighting systems,” explained Chuck DeMilo, Global Director of
Product Marketing, Lighting Business Group, at Luminus. “The fiber is round, the optic
is round, but the LED has always been square – it was an optical mismatch. This has
now been resolved with the round LED breakthrough that will enable us to replace the
300W Xenon lamp in an application like endoscopy.”
According to Luminus President and CEO Keith T.S. Ward, “We made a decision to
invest significantly in R&D and operational infrastructure to revolutionize LED lighting
– making the round LED concept a reality. The importance of this innovation can’t be
overstated, and our customers are extremely excited.”


567
http://www.luminus.com/index_46_4206432345.pdf

Square LEDs
http://www.luminus.com/applications/projection_4_1573066823.pdf
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post #22 of 286 Old 06-16-2012, 01:20 PM
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I guess a Phatlight would kick butt, but these are Phlatlights biggrin.gif They might also kick butt, optically speaking...
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post #23 of 286 Old 06-16-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJSJones View Post

I guess a Phatlight would kick butt, but these are Phlatlights biggrin.gif They might also kick butt, optically speaking...

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Maybe unnamed communist country ripoff?
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post #24 of 286 Old 06-16-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post

So, 20,000:1 contrast, AND a REC709 mode? Very home theater geared for sure.
There was no mention of a dynamic iris, so this is promising. Could possibly mean native contrast.

Extremely unlikely that such a large increase in DLP native CR would go unheralded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Approximately 5 years after Luminus Phatlight were used in Samsung rear projectors, there is finally progress in front projectors
The big question: Round or Square Luminus LED designs?
The round design (pictured below) is Luminus latest technology. However Zombie's picture shows the older square LED's in the Panasonic...

Round makes more sense for the architectural etc. applications they mention, but pj display chips are square.

While they gain efficienecy vy not filling a round lighting need with a square light source, filling a rectangular need like our display chips with a round source would be a step backward.

Noah
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post #25 of 286 Old 06-16-2012, 04:20 PM
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If this thing accepts a 120hz input over that DVI connector then it would make a great gaming projector assuming low input lag
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post #26 of 286 Old 06-17-2012, 01:45 AM
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What DVI connector?

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post #27 of 286 Old 06-17-2012, 01:54 AM
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He probably meant HDBaseT which will be used in this projector?
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post #28 of 286 Old 06-17-2012, 04:02 AM
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Projectorcentral posted a story about this back on the 13th...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector_news.cfm?2012-06-13-Panasonic-goes-Lamp-free&entry_id=529

In the story, they also mention a PT-RZ370 and PT-RZ330. The difference, they said, is that the 300 series don't have edge blending and color matching (for using multiple projectors to create one massive display), and that the CR is 5000:1. These sound like the ones to watch for, as they will likely have a more realistic price.

Seeing as Panasonic was one of the leaders in affordable 720p, and 1080p, hopefully these projectors will be the leaders in affordable 1080p LED projectors. I'm personally hoping for something under $5,000.
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post #29 of 286 Old 06-17-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

That used to be the case, but not anymore.
If it were for HT it would have higher claimed CR, not that it would mean anything.
Plus if it were they would say so.
No way it's native.
I sure hope they do make a HT version, just need to give up some brightness for (native) CR.
I'm more hopeful Panasonic will than Viewsonic; OTOH I believe they've only ever made DLP's for commercial use.


While I agree with you regarding Panasonic, Viewsonic did make an LCD HT projector that was a pretty good first effort, the Pro8100. The Pro8100 has a pretty strong following and that thread is still very active. Pretty good lens, all power features and a very wide color gamut. It also has good light output. A lot going for it, as long as you did not get the banding problem.

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post #30 of 286 Old 06-17-2012, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Extremely unlikely that such a large increase in DLP native CR would go unheralded.

Very true. In the end, it's still a DLP. Even without an iris, 20000:1 is probably "on/off", with the instant light adjustability of the light engine - a "fake" auto iris if you will. Trust me, I'm NOT a fan of iris's. I had an HW30 for a little while, and with all it's praise, I could still see it working. Granted, it was the best auto iris I have witnessed, but I could still see it nonetheless. It's really annoying, because the speed capability of the iris isn't the issue, it's the programing of it. That's why I'll take manual iris's cranked to where I want the brightness, and enjoy everything solid native contrast has to offer, with no possibility of light pumping.

Oh well, I can't wait for LED light sourced LCOS machines. We all know what kind of native contrast (with no trickery) they can do!!!
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