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post #301 of 384 Old 09-14-2012, 08:17 PM
 
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If you stretch, lift weights, and eat right, you should not be soft.


Mike is right on. The quality of using an anamorphic is dependent vertically almost entirely on the vertical scaling, horizontal on the quality of the lens. Buy an great processsor like the Radiance Mini, and a good anamorphic lens, and set it up right, at the right throw, the A lens close to the primary, and tilted at the right andle and you should get a great non soft picture with some minimum pincushioning hidden by a tad overscan. Use the zoom method, and ditto, but not as much light nd not as many vertical pixels, so perhaps some less vertical detail. Both methods can be implemented well and the zoom method is considerably less expensive> But its only money. You can't take it with you.
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post #302 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

No problem Owen. All I was trying to get across is this:
If you are going to use an A-lens, then scaling is going to be involved. many people try comparing a zoomed image to an A-lens setup. A lot of people are using the projector for the vertical stretch and then saying the image is softer with the A-lens. The problem is not the A-lens, assuming that you have a good lens. The problem is with the choice of letting the projector do the vertical stretch (scaling). If you have a good device for the vertical stretch (I use a Lumagen) then the A-lens image is not soft at all.

All true, although no lens has 100% MTF so they will all soften the image, reduce ANSI contrast and create distortion, not enough to be significant with a good one as you say. Its viewing angle that has the greatest effect of image sharpness, go too big and the image will be soft, how soft is unacceptable depends on the individual viewer.

The extra pixels used with the A-lens can never provide more detail just more pixels, and screen gain is a cheaper and more effective way of getting a brighter image IMHO.
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post #303 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 01:10 AM
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Can you do switch between a 2:35 and 16:9 image on a Sony HW30 projector>?
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post #304 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Can you do switch between a 2:35 and 16:9 image on a Sony HW30 projector>?


Not automatic ( manuel zoom,shift and focus and no memory presets ) so you will have to do it manuel everytime

- in the higher segment ( a la´ X70( RS55) or the Sony 95ES you can do it, because they have motorized zoom, shift and focus adjustment + memory settings, the JVC has 3 and the Sony 5 ).
So with the memory presets, you just push the button, and the projector change the size etc. to fit your format automatic. ( very nice, but more expensive smile.gif )


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post #305 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 02:31 AM
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Is the manual zoom that hard to do or no?
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post #306 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Is the manual zoom that hard to do or no?


No, just a bit annoying, if you change a lot betwen formats smile.gif

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post #307 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 05:34 AM
 
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What he is saying is that you can't do it by pressing a button. You have to get out of your chair, get access to the projector, if it is hung from the ceiling, you may have to use a step ladder, and then zoom the lens, maybe lens shift, and maybe refocus, then go back yo your chair. This is worse case of course.

But part of the joy in HT for many forum members is being annoyed by something in their systems and then bitching about it for all their forum friends to see. smile.gif Even better, is to be really annoyed and argumentative about something they do not own but want to criticize. wink.gif
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post #308 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Is the manual zoom that hard to do or no?

I would strongly suggest at least a motorized lens if you will be zooming. When I first got my 2.35 screen I still had my manual lens RS1 and it got VERY annoying and VERY old manually switching aspects at the projector, especially focus. Moving to the RS40 and being able to do this from the remote made a HUGE difference for me. Focus in particular is so much easier to get dead on since you can stick your nose right to the screen vs standing 16' across the room.

Lens memory takes all this a step further and makes life even easier. While the lens memory is not 100% accurate most of the time on the JVCs, it will get you extremely close with the only adjustment being some minor lens shift. Zoom is always perfect and focus usually is as well. Having said that, the most important thing from my experience is to at least have a motorized lens with lens memory being the gravy so to speak.

No way would I go back to a manual lens at this point doing the zoom method.

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post #309 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I would strongly suggest at least a motorized lens if you will be zooming. When I first got my 2.35 screen I still had my manual lens RS1 and it got VERY annoying and VERY old manually switching aspects at the projector, especially focus. Moving to the RS40 and being able to do this from the remote made a HUGE difference for me. Focus in particular is so much easier to get dead on since you can stick your nose right to the screen vs standing 16' across the room.
Lens memory takes all this a step further and makes life even easier. While the lens memory is not 100% accurate most of the time on the JVCs, it will get you extremely close with the only adjustment being some minor lens shift. Zoom is always perfect and focus usually is as well. Having said that, the most important thing from my experience is to at least have a motorized lens with lens memory being the gravy so to speak.
No way would I go back to a manual lens at this point doing the zoom method.

What are the screen requirements to take advantage of this? I have a 16:9 screen. By automatic, can you take full advantage of the resolution of the projector whether it's a 16:9 film or 2.35:1 screen? I don't have masking on my 16:9 screen.
Also, doesn't the projector need some sort of anamorphic lens to take full advantage of different aspect ratios? Just wondering what advantages are of easily switching with automatic focus, zoom, etc.

Thanks.
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post #310 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

What are the screen requirements to take advantage of this? I have a 16:9 screen. By automatic, can you take full advantage of the resolution of the projector whether it's a 16:9 film or 2.35:1 screen? I don't have masking on my 16:9 screen.
Also, doesn't the projector need some sort of anamorphic lens to take full advantage of different aspect ratios? Just wondering what advantages are of easily switching with automatic focus, zoom, etc.
Thanks.

The zoom method is also known as poor mans CIH since you are doing CIH without a lens, but you are not using the projectors full panel for 2.35 like you get with an A-lens (you are getting the same thing you would with a 1.78 screen as far as 2.35 material goes, but you are just framing it out for CIH so the bars are no longer visible). You are basically just framing a CIH movie and letting the black bars spill over the top/bottom of the screen (if you have a dark screen wall, you wont see these at all). For 1.78 material, you now have to zoom the projector back down (or shrink it with a VP) in order to fill the screen properly since you are now maintaining a CIH between aspect ratios instead of a CIW like you get with a 1.78 screen. Assuming you are not doing the shrink method, you still do use the projectors full panel for 1.78. Because you will be zooming in and out so much depending on if you are watching 1.78 or scope, having a motorized lens is a major benefit and makes life MUCH more pleasant.

There are advantages/disadvantages to both zooming and using a A-lens that should be saved for another thread, or look up one of the many discussions on the subject in the 2.35 CIH forum. This is a can of worms in and of itself which is why it is best not to open it here! tongue.gif

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post #311 of 384 Old 09-15-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

The zoom method is also known as poor mans CIH since you are doing CIH without a lens, but you are not using the projectors full panel for 2.35 like you get with an A-lens (you are getting the same thing you would with a 1.78 screen as far as 2.35 material goes, but you are just framing it out for CIH so the bars are no longer visible). You are basically just framing a CIH movie and letting the black bars spill over the top/bottom of the screen (if you have a dark screen wall, you wont see these at all). For 1.78 material, you now have to zoom the projector back down (or shrink it with a VP) in order to fill the screen properly since you are now maintaining a CIH between aspect ratios instead of a CIW like you get with a 1.78 screen. Assuming you are not doing the shrink method, you still do use the projectors full panel for 1.78. Because you will be zooming in and out so much depending on if you are watching 1.78 or scope, having a motorized lens is a major benefit and makes life MUCH more pleasant.
There are advantages/disadvantages to both zooming and using a A-lens that should be saved for another thread, or look up one of the many discussions on the subject in the 2.35 CIH forum. This is a can of worms in and of itself which is why it is best not to open it here! tongue.gif

Thanks. I'll do more research elsewhere. The last time I studied these issues, the discussion was 4:3 vs 16:9 but probably analogous issues as now. Been a while since I upgraded my projector!
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post #312 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I would strongly suggest at least a motorized lens if you will be zooming. When I first got my 2.35 screen I still had my manual lens RS1 and it got VERY annoying and VERY old manually switching aspects at the projector, especially focus. Moving to the RS40 and being able to do this from the remote made a HUGE difference for me. Focus in particular is so much easier to get dead on since you can stick your nose right to the screen vs standing 16' across the room.
Lens memory takes all this a step further and makes life even easier. While the lens memory is not 100% accurate most of the time on the JVCs, it will get you extremely close with the only adjustment being some minor lens shift. Zoom is always perfect and focus usually is as well. Having said that, the most important thing from my experience is to at least have a motorized lens with lens memory being the gravy so to speak.
No way would I go back to a manual lens at this point doing the zoom method.

I agree with Toe. I would not do a scope screen with a projector that has manual controls for lens shift, zoom and focus. Even if the projector was table mounted so that the controls were readily available, it would become a chore to do all the time. The next time you are watching TV and movies for the evening, count how many times you would have needed to change the aspect ratio.

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post #313 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 12:08 PM
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Or you can take the cheap Redneck approach. I put my projector on a 24 inch drawer slide. A simple push back and forth to change zoom. No need to adjust focus, and if you get the correct angle, no need to lenshift. A couple inches overshoot top and bottom on 16X9 (no big deal) but otherwise a simple, if not very elegant solution. (No, nothing to do with Projectors at CEDIA but this thread is half dead anyway.)

You move your projector close to 24" and do not feel the need to adjust focus?

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post #314 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 02:26 PM
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You move your projector close to 24" and do not feel the need to adjust focus?


Yeah. What's your point?

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post #315 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 04:00 PM
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LOL. Would have only been funnier if the OP replied with that!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

Or you can take the cheap Redneck approach. I put my projector on a 24 inch drawer slide. A simple push back and forth to change zoom. No need to adjust focus, and if you get the correct angle, no need to lenshift. A couple inches overshoot top and bottom on 16X9 (no big deal) but otherwise a simple, if not very elegant solution. (No, nothing to do with Projectors at CEDIA but this thread is half dead anyway.)

Do you mean a Redneck approach that is cheap or an approach that a cheap Redneck would employ? Maybe they mean the same? smile.gif Just trying to be sharp and remain in focus. smile.gif
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post #317 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 07:51 PM
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My friend was a redneck and computer programer (I'm from Texas, you'll find those types here).
I am more just a tech guy (not redneck in a Texas sense, but in Texas a redneck is like beyond just your average Redneck), then another friend of ours was 100% full blown redneck.

The redneck tech guy had to translate between me and the full blown redneck, because I don't think I understood a word that boy was saying...
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post #318 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

What are the screen requirements to take advantage of this? I have a 16:9 screen. By automatic, can you take full advantage of the resolution of the projector whether it's a 16:9 film or 2.35:1 screen? I don't have masking on my 16:9 screen.
Also, doesn't the projector need some sort of anamorphic lens to take full advantage of different aspect ratios? Just wondering what advantages are of easily switching with automatic focus, zoom, etc.
Thanks.

The simplest approach is to use a 16:9 screen large enough to accommodate the width you want for scope movies and let the projector display the native aspect ratio of the source unaltered. No zooming, adjustments or A-lens required, its completely set and forget.
Both scope and 16:9 content will fill the screen width, only the height will change as it does in the source. Scope movies on Bluray are not encoded anamorphic so the image is only about 810 pixels high, the remaining 270 lines are encoded as black bars in the video and dont contribute to image resolution.
Displaying the 810 active lines of a BD scope image the same height as the 1080 active lines of 16:9 content results in a softer image via zoom or A-lens, no way around that. Depending on the screen size-viewing distance this softness may or may not be objectionable.
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post #319 of 384 Old 09-17-2012, 10:48 PM
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Yeah. What's your point?

Seriously I just cannot stop laughing.
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Seriously I just cannot stop laughing.

Agree biggrin.gif

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Made me laugh also. Many people on here are so anal (I am one of them) that they want a projector with power focus, so that they can walk up to the screen and adjust the focus by seeing the individual pixels. A JVC with E-shift did change that a little, since you could not see pixel grid structure.

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post #322 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

The zoom method is also known as poor mans CIH since you are doing CIH without a lens, but you are not using the projectors full panel for 2.35 like you get with an A-lens (you are getting the same thing you would with a 1.78 screen as far as 2.35 material goes, but you are just framing it out for CIH so the bars are no longer visible). You are basically just framing a CIH movie and letting the black bars spill over the top/bottom of the screen (if you have a dark screen wall, you wont see these at all). For 1.78 material, you now have to zoom the projector back down (or shrink it with a VP) in order to fill the screen properly since you are now maintaining a CIH between aspect ratios instead of a CIW like you get with a 1.78 screen. Assuming you are not doing the shrink method, you still do use the projectors full panel for 1.78. Because you will be zooming in and out so much depending on if you are watching 1.78 or scope, having a motorized lens is a major benefit and makes life MUCH more pleasant.
There are advantages/disadvantages to both zooming and using a A-lens that should be saved for another thread, or look up one of the many discussions on the subject in the 2.35 CIH forum. This is a can of worms in and of itself which is why it is best not to open it here! tongue.gif

Zooming is also a bummer when it comes to movies that switch there aspect ratio.

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post #323 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Made me laugh also. Many people on here are so anal (I am one of them) that they want a projector with power focus, so that they can walk up to the screen and adjust the focus by seeing the individual pixels. A JVC with E-shift did change that a little, since you could not see pixel grid structure.

Not true... I turned eshift off first and then back on every time... Lol.
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post #324 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 10:22 AM
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Agreed. Turning eshift off is important for getting the best focus. Luckily, the demo mode makes it easy to do. And I think it's a given that we're way more anal on here than the average person. smile.gif
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post #325 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 12:05 PM
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Zooming is also a bummer when it comes to movies that switch there aspect ratio.

Agreed! I still dont understand why JVC cant tweak the masking to give us enough range for this! confused.gif

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post #326 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 12:10 PM
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Agreed! I still dont understand why JVC cant tweak the masking to give us enough range for this! confused.gif

Lumagen already have. wink.gif

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post #327 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
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Zooming is also a bummer when it comes to movies that switch there aspect ratio.

I wish they would label ALL blu rays that have aspect changes. Is it too hard to label 2 aspect ratios on the blu ray case?
Dark Knight has both aspects labeled, but Scott Pilgrim only has one (the beginning of the movie is scope).

Is there a website, blog, etc., that has a list of all the blu rays with multiple aspect ratios?
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post #328 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 12:21 PM
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Not true... I turned eshift off first and then back on every time... Lol.

You know that everybody does not know how to turn off E-shift using the hidden menu. smile.gif

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post #329 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 01:49 PM
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You know that everybody does not know how to turn off E-shift using the hidden menu. smile.gif
Well then they're not anal...rolleyes.gifsmile.gif

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post #330 of 384 Old 09-18-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Zooming is also a bummer when it comes to movies that switch there aspect ratio.

Constant image height (CIH) is a problem any way you do it because Bluray video is constant image width (CIW), image height varies with the aspect ratio.
Projectors are 16:9 native, use a 16:9 screen and changes in aspect ratio are not a problem, no adjustments needed.
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