SONY VPL-HW50ES unveiled at IFA in september 2012 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 01:26 AM
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i saw yesterday at a dealer in munich the 50 at a 3 meter wide screen.

picture looks great.

3d looks surprising bright and this is a huge advantage.

i also saw there the new sony 4k 84" with 4k 2d material and 3d full hd passive.
both looks very good.
lines that are visible in 3d are gone at about 3 meter distance from the display.
so in most cases a no issue.
the best distance was at around 1 times the picture wide in distance.
there your eye can see all the 4k and no pixels are visible.
when you get used to 4k there is no way back.
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post #92 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

maybe in that shop ?

They released this video (23 minutes) but it's in German :


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post #93 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:00 AM
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not this dealer a other one in munich.
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post #94 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:08 AM
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more info was posted at http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php%3Ftopic%3D126277.0&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsony%2Bhw50%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbo%3D1%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D881%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=ngVZUMSZJqWEiwKfwoCgBA&ved=0CDgQ7gEwAA



"Just put the projector in place and our matte white screen of 2m30 with 1.0 gain lowered to see what comes out of this bit can be squeezed.
Lamp high
Iris /open Iris / open
Kleur temp gecalibreerd 6500 Celvin Calibrated color temp 6500 Celvin
Gecalibreerde REC 709 stand Calibrated 709 REC mode
Gamma 2.2 Gamma 2.2

Here we measure an astounding 33 Ftlmb!!
Lamp hoog Lamp high
Iris /full Iris / full
D65 gecalibreerd D65 calibrated
Gamma 2.2 Gamma 2.2 "

which i beleave puts the lumens at 1063.56? not sure if i calculated that right smile.gif
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post #95 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvetpoet View Post

[...]
which i beleave puts the lumens at 1063.56? not sure if i calculated that right smile.gif

Hi,

1058 lumens with the data sheet I use usually, not so far wink.gif
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post #96 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebes View Post

Hi,
1058 lumens with the data sheet I use usually, not so far wink.gif

Thanks! I wans't sure with the metric to imperial conversion if I fudged something smile.gif
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post #97 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:41 AM
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does the 50 have vertical lens shift for us people with anamorphic lens?
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post #98 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 12:22 PM
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Yes, both horizontal and vertical.
Quote:
Installation Features
Focus : Yes (Manual)
Shift : Yes (Manual)
Shift Range : V: +/- 0.71V; H: +/- 0.25H
Ultra Low Fan Noise : 21dB
Zoom : Yes (Manual) 1.6X
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post #99 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 07:40 PM
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Art has updated his blog. He seems to be really impressed with it smile.gif


"Yes, the HW50ES is definitely brighter than the less expensive HW30ES and even the more expensive VPL-VW95ES. Mike measured best mode (zoom at mid-point, of course) at a massive 992 lumens!

Brightest mode was just shy of 1300 lumens, but for best bright mode, Bright TV measured 1131 lumens. That may not be in the league of some flame throwers like the Epson and Panasonic projectors, but it is much brighter than any of those comparing calibrated best modes."

"Good news. 3D brightness seems to be way up, thanks to apparently glasses, new algorithms, etc. Note, these glasses are not compatible with Sony 3D LCDTVs to the best of my knowledge. Glasses are rechargeable and come with a USB connector on one end, and a small plug on the other that goes into the glasses behind a soft cover that you move out of the way to expose the socket."

"If your thing is by far, movies first, dedicated or at least very good light controlled room, this Sony’s going to be really, really tough to beat. As big a fan as I tend to be of the Epson 5010, I suspect the new 5020′s biggest advantage over this Sony will be the much lower selling price, and the maximum brightness, rather than an advantage in picture quality"

Hopefully review up at the end of next week.
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post #100 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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thanks for posting. It's good to see Sony come back with a nice upgrade to the HW30. Hopefully there is a contrast improvement as well.

I'm curious if they made enhancements with the 3D modes. The HW50 will be part of the next 3D mini-shootout thread coming soon. cool.gif
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post #101 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:15 PM
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I ordered the Darbee to try but now I wonder if it's necessary if I get the HW50. Seems Sony's Reality Creation Engine is doing the same thing as the Darbee.

Here's what Art says in his blog:

Reality Creation – Sony’s upscaling or upverting – or up something to “4k”. All the talk doesn’t matter, it’s not 4K. What it is, however, is rather stunning dynamic detail/sharpness enhancement.

This I can say about it. I consider the goals of Reality Creation to be similar to Epson’s Super-Resolution. That said, unless there’s a real improvement in Super-Resolution on the new 5020 and 6020 Epson projectors, then I think you can count on Sony having the better implementation.

The core difference – you can get more apparent detail/sharpness out of the Sony before artifacts start giving it an artificial look. In other words you can get a sharper seeming image out of the Sony before you start noticing things you really do not want to be noticing. Enough said for now.

I’m mostly keeping Reality Creation in the 35 and under settings level. (out of 100), yet it’s still creating an impressively crisp image. If I understand correctly (waiting for a white paper), the Sony’s algorithm is smart – not just the usual upscaling type processing, but rather clever. I believe it uses facial identification, etc. That is, the Sony projector tends to know what it’s trying to enhance, so that it doesn’t go over the top on things that would be obvious.
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post #102 of 149 Old 09-22-2012, 10:51 PM
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Based on Art's initial impressions of the HW50ES, I will have to give this as much consideration as the new JVC 4810. It's nice to see they made some significant improvements to the 3D brightness.
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post #103 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 12:33 AM
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does the sony 50 have vertical stretch for anamorphic users? The jvc's do.
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post #104 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

does the sony 50 have vertical stretch for anamorphic users? The jvc's do.

Yes it does...

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=8198552921666490151&langId=-1&XID=O:vplhw50es:dg_gglsrch:pla&cagpspn=pla#specifications
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post #105 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 05:59 AM
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I spoke to Rob McDonough from Sony the other day.Rob is Sony's main man in Sony projectors and he told me personally he would buy the Sony VPL-HW50ES over the Sony VPL-VW95ES.
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post #106 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 08:47 AM
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Hmmm that is an interesting comment. I currently have a hw30 and a 16x9 133" screen at maximum throw. The ONLY thing I don't love about it is the black levels. The pic looks great most of the time, but the darkest of scenes look like they have a bit of a grey instead of black to them.

I found the vw95 for a great deal, and am ready to pull the trigger (same price as the hw50 preorder price).

The reality creation in the 50 is interesting but I already have a darblet on the way. The main concern is black level. I would go with a jvc instead, but the lag for gaming and worse 3d kills that idea.

How do you all think the contrast will compare to the vw95?
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post #107 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 09:38 AM
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Contrast is my biggest concern between the 100,000:1 HW50 vs 150,000:1 VW95 also.Rob from Sony said he would still go with the HW50.
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post #108 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 09:52 AM
 
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I sampled the 30ES several times last year and could never get the lens to show the pixel structure. Several excuses were made. Then Kris Deering reported the 95ES also was resolution challenged and again certain people resented posting the obvious truth. The irony further pointed out was Sony uses top quality lens in their camera division. Why not call up Carl Zeiss?

Now Sony sends a clear and funny message in the 50's lens specification:
"All range crisp focus lens"

Further even the main Sony Product manager recommends the 50 over the more expensive yet still optically challenged 95.

See what happens when they kick out the short-sighted CEO Stringer and go back to their quality roots?

Members should also be aware that while Sony did upgrade the 50's optical engine, the new JVC's MAY only have improved optics in their $8K and up projectors.
While you should always choose carefully (while ignore the fanboys), the 50ES looks very promising indeed. No need to buy extra clutter either.
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post #109 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikitom View Post

Contrast is my biggest concern between the 100,000:1 HW50 vs 150,000:1 VW95 also.Rob from Sony said he would still go with the HW50.

Can you check with Rob if they use better lenses on the HW50 this year ?
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post #110 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

Can you check with Rob if they use better lenses on the HW50 this year ?


He is a tough guy to get a hold of after numerous phone calls I was able to get a hold of him the other day.From the specs on Sony's website I seen comparing the VW95 and the HW50 it looks like they are using the same lens on both.
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post #111 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 11:59 AM
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Everyone. I am about to buy my first projector for my light controlled, dedicated theater room. Currently we have a 65" plasma that the electric screen will drop down in front of. My primary interest is movies but I would like to play video games (fps) as well as watch college football with lights on (for football). It would also be nice if my younger kids could watch movies without having the lights all the way down.

Four questions:
- Do I need to look elsewhere if I like to play first person shooters (lag)?
- I need a lot of vertical lens shift and the Sony does not seem to match the Panasonic AE7000/8000 in this regard based on my reading of the manuals. I can't figure out why Sony would limit this unless their design would not allow for a sharp picture at the extremes of lens shift.
- Any thoughts on screen gain for this projector?
- Will this projector allow for "decent" viewing with lights on in the back of my 24' long room ( I know this is difficult to answer).

Thanks!
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post #112 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Members should also be aware that while Sony did upgrade the 50's optical engine, the new JVC's MAY only have improved optics in their $8K and up projectors.

Keep in mind though that improvements to the 'optical block' does not necessarily mean any improvement to the lens. I have a 50ES on pre-order & will be curious to see how the lens holds up in the center vs. the extremes. As for pixel structure, LCOS is not supposed to show that much pixel structure anyhow, no? Since I personally haven't seen any of the high-end Sony's, sadly I will not be able to even subjectively compare the sharpness of the lens once I receive my 50ES...
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post #113 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikitom View Post

He is a tough guy to get a hold of after numerous phone calls I was able to get a hold of him the other day.From the specs on Sony's website I seen comparing the VW95 and the HW50 it looks like they are using the same lens on both.


Tikitom, Ranger and Hififun

I have seen 3 HW30´s and on all 3 I could adjust focus, so it pixels was cleary seen, but the 95ES ( which I have now ) lens is cleary better - sharper and more uniform clearer/sharper over the hole picture/ panel area.

I still dont get / see what Kris talk about with the lenses confused.gif

I compared the X70 and the 95ES and in sharpness, and the X70 isnt´ sharper IMO. ( just for comparison with a other lens/projector in the same price level )

Hififun.

what do you mean by : " yet still optically challenged 95". ? Have you heard one owner say the optic was bad ? ( and yes, if I did find it bad, I would say it smile.gif - or even one who complain over the picture is soft or defocussed ? ( the only one I have heard about ,was Kris - maybe he got a bad one !? - but if they all was "bad" / "not so good" wouldnt you / everybody els have heard about it ?? or do we 95ES owners keep it as a secret wink.gif , to trick other people into buying a crap projector mad.gifconfused.gif

And have you seen one your self, and found it "bad" ?

BTW
. Whats wrong with the "All range crisp focus lens"

Go see the 1000ES ( and yes, I have seen that too ) - it has, I quote : " Sony has developed the 4K All-Range Crisp Focus (ARC-F) lens specifically for the VPL-VW1000ES projector to produce optimised 4K images. By incorporating this super high-resolution lens, high precision and high quality picture is realised in every corner of the image".

This lens is very good, so actually Sony can make quality lenses ( but I agree that Zeiss can too - but their better optics cost too smile.gif )

Anyway, the HW 50 sound very promising cool.gif ( especially on one area, where the 95ES isnt in the top - it is not a light canon calibrated, so if you want to go big screen or very bright in 3D, this HW50 sounds like a good contender or buy a HP screen smile.gif )

dj
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post #114 of 149 Old 09-23-2012, 03:43 PM
 
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You raise some very good questions that i also seek the answers to. Concrete information is hard to come by, so we all must use what we can get. I go to dealers when i can and have the stamina to deflect pushy salesman while concentrating upon PQ.

An optical system in a projector is comprised of many parts, as each can have an impact upon the optical quality. The issue here is to raise awareness so manufactures can make improvements. Members tore-up Projector Central review comments for not discussing the 3D ghosting of the new Panasonic 8000. Good! Panasonic even added optical lens coating this year to improve the contrast.

I have little doubt that the 50ES is a big step up in quality over the 30 based upon what Art's wife states and knowing the designer of the 1000 was responsible for the reworking 50ES optical block.

LCoS projectors have always suffered from weak ANSI contrast (hence the Darbee mating). The ratio between On/Off and ANSI should be more balanced. The ANSI suffers i suspect because of light scatter in the optical block, so its maybe not primarily the lens. You should always be able to see the discrete pixel structure up-close in any 100+ inch screen in a properly implemented projector.

But i do worry about improvements to dynamic contrast, as this is meaningless. I will keep an open mind and hope the Sony places first as I've been waiting for a long time for something decent to be released, in spite of the superficially excellent reviews. Later the owners told a radically different story. The Sony line though is quite reliable and i hope they have raised the native contrast and lowered the black level.
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post #115 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 09:00 AM
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We were told at the show, that the lens in the HW50ES and the HW30ES are the same. I am working to get confirmation. I can state as a fact, that the HW50ES and VW95ES do not share the same lens. Part of what you are paying for with a VW95ES is higher quality optics, not that the HW50 optics are bad, just that the VW95ES is built to a higher standard and therefore costs more.

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post #116 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 11:10 AM
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No contrast measurements but some more impressions where posted

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php%3Ftopic%3D126277.0&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dsony%2Bhw50%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26tbo%3D1%26biw%3D1133%26bih%3D881%26tbs%3Dqdr:w%26prmd%3Dimvns&sa=X&ei=ngVZUMSZJqWEiwKfwoCgBA&ved=0CDgQ7gEwAA

"The improved optical block also shows that the speed of the panels has been improved a bit panos go in my opinion a bit smoother and the motion blur from the previous Sonys was already quite ok here is a little improved. Not only do I see only one artefactje popping up, I also get a strong feeling that the so called soap look a lot less present than in previous models, allow me some more material to enjoy this completely carve out. "


"Brightness in 3D was more than adequate for my 2m50 matte white screen, which is also nice to have, together with the Black Diamond screens are now even without the use of additional filter, which in the 95 and the 30 still needed.
Motion flow in 3D. Motion flow into 3D works great for me and gives a very good overall result, the built-emitter is a relief compared to the 30, it is now doing a good job. "


"I'm very curious what it is going to give if I C95 and HW50 side by side and put the same source material comparable on an at both projectors.
. I conclude provisionally with the same bold conclusion as the one I started with, apart from any slight difference in sharpness and of course the electrical functions of the C95 I give the HW50 a better score than his big brother"
.
Cross talk is mentioned a little but not in detail. I wouldn't be suprised if its the same as the 30.

I really ownder how much of the preceived contast is real or just the reality engine?
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post #117 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 11:35 AM
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Can somebody translate that translation:)

I wonder if the Darbee would offer any further benefit over Sony's DRC.
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post #118 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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The bottom line is another experienced reviewer who prefers the 50 over the 95.
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post #119 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

The bottom line is another experienced reviewer who prefers the 50 over the 95.


I woulnt quite go that far. He didn't do a side by side and how much of it is from the processing? A Darby on the 95 might be better?

Don't get me wrong I'm on the preorder list but the lense on the 95 is much better then then 30.
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post #120 of 149 Old 09-25-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by velvetpoet View Post

I woulnt quite go that far. He didn't do a side by side and how much of it is from the processing? A Darby on the 95 might be better?
Don't get me wrong I'm on the preorder list but the lense on the 95 is much better then then 30.

I think you are correct but then again the lens on my Ruby is at least as good as the one on the 95!

I think I will join you on the preorder.
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