OFFICIAL THREAD SONY VPL-HW50ES new SXRD Projector IFA BERLIN 2012 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yusuf.0088 View Post

I guess people compare hw30 and rs45 because of 3D.
Not a secret, that JVC has best black level and worst ghosting, though I never owned it.
sanderdvd, If your budget allows, I advise keep rs45 for 2d, and buy hw50 for 3d. If you will be satisfied with hw50's black level, you always can sell rs45.

They are compared because they are in the same price category. Both projectors have their own strengths.
It all comes down to ones environment and priorities. If you plan on gaming for instance you probably wouldn't go the JVC route.
If you are a black level junky you probably wouldn't go the Sony route.

Maybe accurate colors is a top priority for you ect.

There are a number of reasons one will pick one projector or the other.
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post #62 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 08:31 AM
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I m really in doubt about going from my RS45 to the HW50 now that I read the last few posts. I have the opportunity to sell my JVC RS45 for a very good price and found a good price for the HW50 in Germany so in the end I only have to pay $ 400 for this 'upgrade/sidegrade'. The slow panels of the JVC is the thing that really bothers me and of course the non watchable 3D. Thing is that I am a black level junkie and I watch 2D 95% and will be watching 5% 3D. Will I really loose THAT much black level on the HW50?
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post #63 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I m really in doubt about going from my RS45 to the HW50 now that I read the last few posts. I have the opportunity to sell my JVC RS45 for a very good price and found a good price for the HW50 in Germany so in the end I only have to pay $ 400 for this 'upgrade/sidegrade'. The slow panels of the JVC is the thing that really bothers me and of course the non watchable 3D. Thing is that I am a black level junkie and I watch 2D 95% and will be watching 5% 3D. Will I really loose THAT much black level on the HW50?

The vw95 would be a better move if you want to maintain near JVC contrast.
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post #64 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I m really in doubt about going from my RS45 to the HW50 now that I read the last few posts. I have the opportunity to sell my JVC RS45 for a very good price and found a good price for the HW50 in Germany so in the end I only have to pay $ 400 for this 'upgrade/sidegrade'. The slow panels of the JVC is the thing that really bothers me and of course the non watchable 3D. Thing is that I am a black level junkie and I watch 2D 95% and will be watching 5% 3D. Will I really loose THAT much black level on the HW50?

I'm in a similar boat as yourself. My projector will be 100% movies but I wan't good 3D. The JVC is OK but it lacks brightness and has bad crosstalk. Not to mention I use FI in 2D and I really want the ability to use it in 3D as well. I've seen the HW30 in a darkened room at Best Buy and the black levels look pretty good on the screen they use however I use a Dalite HP screen which raises black levels slightly. When I took a sample into the store the black levels were too high for my taste.

Having said that Art's comments seem conflicting. I'm concerned with some of his comments because if you read many of his reviews it's apparent that he cuts/pastes a bit of his info. Projector Central said that black levels on the RS45 are definitely better than the Epson and Panasonic. The HW50 is said to be equal with the 5010. The question would be how comparable are these two?

I can sacrifice a small amount of black levels for better 3D and FI in 3D but not much.
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post #65 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

The vw95 would be a better move if you want to maintain near JVC contrast.

Didn't I read at some point that you sold your RS40 and got an Epson 5010 or was that someone else? If it was you, how much better is the RS45 over the 5010? Is it enough to notice the difference if not comparing the two side by side?
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post #66 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dsm1212 View Post

Mine was shipped yesterday too, but it must be coming by Fedex-Pedestrian because it's not due to be delivered until next Tues :-(.

Please keep us posted when you get your HW50ES - been trying to order one from one of the DC area stores, but nobody can get them yet - calling sony, they have no idea when they will be available. Anticipation is building...ceiling mount installed - waiting for arrival of first projector!
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post #67 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I'm in a similar boat as yourself. My projector will be 100% movies but I wan't good 3D. The JVC is OK but it lacks brightness and has bad crosstalk. Not to mention I use FI in 2D and I really want the ability to use it in 3D as well. I've seen the HW30 in a darkened room at Best Buy and the black levels look pretty good on the screen they use however I use a Dalite HP screen which raises black levels slightly. When I took a sample into the store the black levels were too high for my taste.

Having said that Art's comments seem conflicting. I'm concerned with some of his comments because if you read many of his reviews it's apparent that he cuts/pastes a bit of his info. Projector Central said that black levels on the RS45 are definitely better than the Epson and Panasonic. The HW50 is said to be equal with the 5010. The question would be how comparable are these two?

I can sacrifice a small amount of black levels for better 3D and FI in 3D but not much.

Their RS45 review should have been redone, they saw a blue tint issue in low APL scenes that no on else has seen or commented on. I watch plenty of dark sci-fi on my RS55 and that would have been distracting for certain.

Realistic expectations have to be set here for black floor fanatics with HP screens. Looking the native contrast:

JVC > VW95 > Epson 5010 ~ Hw50 > HW30 > BQ W7000

I thought the 5010 had very good black levels overall, but if we're watching the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution, I wouldn't mistake the black floor and overall dynamic image for the JVC.

The main strength of the HW50 is likely going to be the well above average calibrated lumen output. Hopefully 3D has been improved as well. The HW30's 3D was impressive in August 2011, but then the Epson came out with equally good 3D and a bit less flicker due to the higher panel speed. Neither were as perfect as DLP in this regard.

with the 2.8HP, I want the lowest possible black floor possible. This is where the JVC is still going to reign in this area for dark sci-fi fans.
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post #68 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 01:14 PM
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so will a upgrade from the RS45 to the RS46 be noticable in PQ or will this only give you better lamp life (probably because we don t know for sure how the new lamps will last of course) and maybe a slightly better 3D?
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post #69 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Didn't I read at some point that you sold your RS40 and got an Epson 5010 or was that someone else? If it was you, how much better is the RS45 over the 5010? Is it enough to notice the difference if not comparing the two side by side?

Nope that wasn't me. I'm happy with the RS45 at the moment. I believe that was Steve? No projector upgrades planned for this year. I may finally buy one of those black diamond screens if the itch continues to grow. smile.gif

@sanderdvd
I'm not sure it will be much of an upgrade, if any for current RS45 owners. The RS56 would be considered more of a true upgrade.
The lamp life jury is still out. The 003 lamp has been good so far for me. I see no need to change projectors because of it.
Contrast hasn't changed, so I really have my doubts the image quality would be any different.

I'm going to hold out till after the first of the year when B-stock RS55's become available. wink.gif
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post #70 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Their RS45 review should have been redone, they saw a blue tint issue in low APL scenes that no on else has seen or commented on. I watch plenty of dark sci-fi on my RS55 and that would have been distracting for certain.
Realistic expectations have to be set here for black floor fanatics with HP screens. Looking the native contrast:
JVC > VW95 > Epson 5010 ~ Hw50 > HW30 > BQ W7000
I thought the 5010 had very good black levels overall, but if we're watching the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution, I wouldn't mistake the black floor and overall dynamic image for the JVC.
The main strength of the HW50 is likely going to be the well above average calibrated lumen output. Hopefully 3D has been improved as well. The HW30's 3D was impressive in August 2011, but then the Epson came out with equally good 3D and a bit less flicker due to the higher panel speed. Neither were as perfect as DLP in this regard.
with the 2.8HP, I want the lowest possible black floor possible. This is where the JVC is still going to reign in this area for dark sci-fi fans.

I've not noticed the blue either. My old SXRD LCOS RPTV is plagued with blue in dark scenes so I'd probably see it if that were an issue with mine. I've been a black level fanatic and have wanted more than the JVC but little has changed in that area the last few years and quite frankly I've somewhat given up on expecting more. I'm will to sacrifice a little for some improvements in other areas. My understanding is the FI is better with less artifacts (and I do like more aggressive FI) and the RC should be an improvement in sharpness since I don't have a Darbee. The Sony also has FI in 3D which is nice and from my reading I believe I recall the Sony's having more pop than the JVC on sports and animation which I do watch a bit of animated movies. The lumen output sound nice for 3D but likely in 2D I'd watch the Sony in low lamp mode. Presently I have a 119" 2.4 gain HP screen and I watch the RS45 in normal(low) mode with the manual iris at -15 and it's plenty bright.

I only 3D I've seen projectorwise is the HW30 and the RS45 so I'm certain that the Sony's would be a big improvement for me as I've never seen the Epson or the a DLP (which is probably a good thing for me at this stage in 3D). Did you like the HW30 better than the Epson for 2D?

Are you high up on the pre-order list for the HW50?

On a side note, I kinda wonder if dark scenes are raised slightly but the 2.8 gain screen over the 2.4 screen. I originally had a 106" 2.8 gain screen and I dreaded the thought of getting the 2.4 gain screen when they quit making the 2.8 material. When I initially made comparisons I put up a 12" x 12" square against a cheap 1.1 screen I had and on an all black screen with the RS45 the blacks were brighter on the 2.8 material than the 1.1 material. I recently tried a 1.1 gain screen up against my 2.4 material and I couldn't tell the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

so will a upgrade from the RS45 to the RS46 be noticable in PQ or will this only give you better lamp life (probably because we don t know for sure how the new lamps will last of course) and maybe a slightly better 3D?

From what little I've read the RS46 is basically the same projector as the RS45 but with better 3D (which has yet to be confirmed).
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

Nope that wasn't me. I'm happy with the RS45 at the moment. I believe that was Steve? No projector upgrades planned for this year. I may finally buy one of those black diamond screens if the itch continues to grow. smile.gif...

Must have been someone else then. I think Steve was the guy who had the issues with his RS40 and wasn't very happy about it correct? At least from memory I thought I recall someone whoser user name at started with a J and liked their RS40 but wanted better 3D and got the Epson. Oh well. smile.gif
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post #71 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post


I only 3D I've seen projectorwise is the HW30 and the RS45 so I'm certain that the Sony's would be a big improvement for me as I've never seen the Epson or the a DLP (which is probably a good thing for me at this stage in 3D). Did you like the HW30 better than the Epson for 2D?

Are you high up on the pre-order list for the HW50?

On a side note, I kinda wonder if dark scenes are raised slightly but the 2.8 gain screen over the 2.4 screen. I originally had a 106" 2.8 gain screen and I dreaded the thought of getting the 2.4 gain screen when they quit making the 2.8 material. When I initially made comparisons I put up a 12" x 12" square against a cheap 1.1 screen I had and on an all black screen with the RS45 the blacks were brighter on the 2.8 material than the 1.1 material. I recently tried a 1.1 gain screen up against my 2.4 material and I couldn't tell the difference.

I went back and forth on the 2D PQ between the HW30 and 5010, both had different qualities I liked. I thought the 5010 looked more 'digital' than the HW30, mainly due to the pixel spacing which was a somewhat apparent on my 142" @ close seating distance.

I think the 2.8 was underrated since there seems to be more than .4 gain difference between the two. I heard some state that they measured 3.0 with max gain which is how I have mine set up. -11 on the RS55 will light up the 142" 2.8 to the point of making me squint on some bright scenes.

I was watching a bluray on Bob Marley's life (amazing visuals and sound) and there are intensely bright scenes that drop to total blackness. This was startling because my brain said 'Lights out' for about 2 seconds there. I think looking at the patches compared to 1 another is difficult without taking the entire screen and perceived brightness into consideration.

As soon as the HW50's land with AVS, we are starting with the HW50 as the first projector for round 2 of the upcoming V2.0 of the shootout.

I know the HW30 well and looking forward to see this new model in action on the big HP. I still have my RS55 & W7000 for some comparisons as well until the new JVC's arrive.
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post #72 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 10:27 PM
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I keep reading that the throw ratio of 50 is "limited". Can someone kindly tell me what it is as I don't see it on the Sony website. Thanks in advance.
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post #73 of 302 Old 10-04-2012, 10:45 PM
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Throw ratio on any projector with a zoom lens is defined as a range. The smaller number in the range when multiplied by the 16/9 screen width is the closest the projector can be placed with respect to the horizontal distance from the lens surface to the screen that the projector can be placed with the image filling the screen The larger number when multiplied by the screen width is the longest distance the projector can be placed with respect to the screen without overfillling the screen. For example, the JVCs have throw multipliers of 1.4 to 2.8. The Sony's range is more limited being about 1.37 to 2.18 or so. I am going from memory here. Someone can correct me if I have it wrong. My numbers are close however.

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post #74 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:04 AM
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The fun will begin soon...

I should receive mine tomorow smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
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post #75 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:08 AM
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Amazon shows them shipping on Oct 23
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post #76 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:14 AM
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Rick, good to hear. Did you previously own the VW90? and can you PM me the Canadian dealer you ordered from. My dealer had no info as of last week.


Jason, I hope you get yours soon. Honestly, I trust your opinions far more then any other review sites, especially 3D. I don't understand why review sites rate 3D so subjectively when there are easy tests to run for things like ghosting. Instead we get comments like "looks brighter and has less crosstalk then last years model" really prove it. Do the pantagoria (sp?) test. LOL. Also do you plan on trying the new Mitsubishi? I'm intrigued by the ability to clamp down all the iris and get great blacks. I wouldn't mind a DLP with Epson like blacks at around 500 lumens. I have a total batcave so that should be bright enough.
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post #77 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:16 AM
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Is that the 30 or 50? it looks like the 30.

Rick - great news, let's hear all about it !
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post #78 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Rick, good to hear. Did you previously own the VW90? and can you PM me the Canadian dealer you ordered from. My dealer had no info as of last week..

In the last 3 years, I tested about 10 projectors... My 4 last one was... Mits HC9000, Sony VW95, Sony HW30 and JVC RS45.

I am very used to the Sony HW30 picture in 2D and 3D. If the 3D image is better/brighter I will know in a couple of tests... My 3D blu ray disk are ready and waiting biggrin.gif
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post #79 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:23 AM
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Jason, I hope you get yours soon. Honestly, I trust your opinions far more then any other review sites, especially 3D. I don't understand why review sites rate 3D so subjectively when there are easy tests to run for things like ghosting. Instead we get comments like "looks brighter and has less crosstalk then last years model" really prove it. Do the pantagoria (sp?) test. LOL. Also do you plan on trying the new Mitsubishi? I'm intrigued by the ability to clamp down all the iris and get great blacks. I wouldn't mind a DLP with Epson like blacks at around 500 lumens. I have a total batcave so that should be bright enough.

They should be landing soon with AVS. As soon as they get here, I'll get started asap. It's relatively easy to take the 'through the lens' screenshots. not sure why the pro reviews avoid this.

yes on the HC8000 as well.
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post #80 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post


Jason, I hope you get yours soon. Honestly, I trust your opinions far more then any other review sites, especially 3D. I don't understand why review sites rate 3D so subjectively when there are easy tests to run for things like ghosting. Instead we get comments like "looks brighter and has less crosstalk then last years model" really prove it. Do the pantagoria (sp?) test. LOL. Also do you plan on trying the new Mitsubishi? I'm intrigued by the ability to clamp down all the iris and get great blacks. I wouldn't mind a DLP with Epson like blacks at around 500 lumens. I have a total batcave so that should be bright enough.

They should be landing soon with AVS. As soon as they get here, I'll get started asap. It's relatively easy to take the 'through the lens' screenshots. not sure why the pro reviews avoid this.

yes on the HC8000 as well.

Zombie, I have the same Sammy Adventure disk as you... I will try to take the same picture you did to compare the ghosting
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post #81 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:41 AM
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Zombie, I have the same Sammy Adventure disk as you... I will try to take the same picture you did to compare the ghosting

great news, can't wait to hear your overall thoughts compared to the other models you've had.
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post #82 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 09:56 AM
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Zombie, I have the same Sammy Adventure disk as you... I will try to take the same picture you did to compare the ghosting

great news, can't wait to hear your overall thoughts compared to the other models you've had.

By the way, when you take the picture on the HW30. The 3D glasses brightness setting was on wich number 2 or 3, 4 ?
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By the way, when you take the picture on the HW30. The 3D glasses brightness setting was on which number 2 or 3, 4 ?


i'd typically keep it on 3. I'm assuming the glasses are the same as before?
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post #84 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 11:29 AM
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By the way, when you take the picture on the HW30. The 3D glasses brightness setting was on which number 2 or 3, 4 ?


i'd typically keep it on 3. I'm assuming the glasses are the same as before?

Yes same glasses as HW30, VW95 and VW1000
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Amazon shows them shipping on Oct 23
It getting difficult to follow the logic here.
Amazon shows for the Sony VPLHW30ES:
This item will be released on October 23, 2012
then
Date first available at Amazon.com: August 5, 2011 ... Then there are two used ones for sale redface.gif

For here and now, is this thread for the 50ES or the 30ES?
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post #86 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 05:47 PM
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I went back and forth on the 2D PQ between the HW30 and 5010, both had different qualities I liked. I thought the 5010 looked more 'digital' than the HW30, mainly due to the pixel spacing which was a somewhat apparent on my 142" @ close seating distance.
I think the 2.8 was underrated since there seems to be more than .4 gain difference between the two. I heard some state that they measured 3.0 with max gain which is how I have mine set up. -11 on the RS55 will light up the 142" 2.8 to the point of making me squint on some bright scenes.
I was watching a bluray on Bob Marley's life (amazing visuals and sound) and there are intensely bright scenes that drop to total blackness. This was startling because my brain said 'Lights out' for about 2 seconds there. I think looking at the patches compared to 1 another is difficult without taking the entire screen and perceived brightness into consideration.
As soon as the HW50's land with AVS, we are starting with the HW50 as the first projector for round 2 of the upcoming V2.0 of the shootout.
I know the HW30 well and looking forward to see this new model in action on the big HP. I still have my RS55 & W7000 for some comparisons as well until the new JVC's arrive.


Thanks for all of your comments Jason! When you compare the RS55 to the RS55 in 2D could you possibly adjust the brightness setting on the JVC to give us with a JVC an idea of what black levels are like on the HW50? For example, if you your RS55's manual iris is set at -11, the brightness at 0, with the lamp set to normal mode, and both projectors have a blank input (both outputting a black screen) you could adjust the brightness on the JVC to match the Sony as close as possible. So for example the Sony HW50's best black level might match the JVC when the brightness is set to +1 on the JVC. If this was true then those of us with JVCs could set our projector's manual iris, lamp mode, and brightness to what you use to get a baseline for what to expect with the Sony HW50. This may not help so much with mixed content but it may give somewhat of a baseline comparison for those of us who can't see these projectors in action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

Rick, good to hear. Did you previously own the VW90? and can you PM me the Canadian dealer you ordered from. My dealer had no info as of last week...

+1

Zombie has been very helpful to many here and many reviews are often too vague on areas that many have questions about. I'm actually looking forward to what Zombie see so as to help me decide on what route I want to take for an upgrade. I'm really hoping the HW50 is somewhat closed to the JVC when it comes to contrast as the brightness and such for 3D sounds more appealing to me over the VW95 in 3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

In the last 3 years, I tested about 10 projectors... My 4 last one was... Mits HC9000, Sony VW95, Sony HW30 and JVC RS45.
I am very used to the Sony HW30 picture in 2D and 3D. If the 3D image is better/brighter I will know in a couple of tests... My 3D blu ray disk are ready and waiting biggrin.gif

Did you like the VW95 as much or more in 2D as the RS45? How much better was the 3D on the VW95 over the JVC?
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post #87 of 302 Old 10-05-2012, 06:39 PM
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Amazon changed their listing

It was previously for the SONY VPL-HW50ES and listed for $3998

Typical Amazon screw up
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post #88 of 302 Old 10-06-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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My HW50ES is on the way ETA Monday wink.gif The review and a shootout with the VIEWSONIC PRO9000 will follow by the end of next week smile.gif

Visit the new pjhc.fr forum here : http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/forum/
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post #89 of 302 Old 10-06-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

The fun will begin soon...
I should receive mine tomorow smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif
I soooooooo curious about your review! Escpecially how the black level is compared to JVC! I ll let my descision to upgrade from my RS45 to the HW50 depend on your review!!
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post #90 of 302 Old 10-06-2012, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Throw ratio on any projector with a zoom lens is defined as a range. The smaller number in the range when multiplied by the 16/9 screen width is the closest the projector can be placed with respect to the horizontal distance from the lens surface to the screen that the projector can be placed with the image filling the screen The larger number when multiplied by the screen width is the longest distance the projector can be placed with respect to the screen without overfillling the screen. For example, the JVCs have throw multipliers of 1.4 to 2.8. The Sony's range is more limited being about 1.37 to 2.18 or so. I am going from memory here. Someone can correct me if I have it wrong. My numbers are close however.

Thanks Mark for the explaination- sorry but I wasn't really asking for a definition of throw ratio but the actual numbers (range) for the Sony which you did state an approximation. Does anyone know the exact numbers.Thanks
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