PANASONIC PT-AE8000U (US VERSION) PT-AT6000E (EUROPEAN VERSION) IFA BERLIN 2012 New LCD 1080p 3D Projector - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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post #481 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 11:23 AM
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Let me first say that the 2D picture of the 8k seemed better than my RS40... even the black levels. The image also appears sharper and the colors seem more accurate. Granted, I have not calibrated it, but out of the box Cinema1 is fantastic in Economy lamp mode.

Anyway, my issue... I have it mounted from the ceiling 12 feet away and using a level, I have determined that it is perfectly level along with my new 120 inch screen. I used the lens shift joy stick (hate that thing) to make the final alignments. After all of that, I have key stoning issues, i.e. the top of the picture tapers in a little. Sure, with my 3 inch wide black projector screen frame, I can hide it, but it is noticeable when there is a 4:3 picture or when I access the menu system.

I keep verifying that it's level and I have never experienced this before with my 3 previous projectors all mounted in the same spot using the same mount. Is it possible that the lens is damaged? Maybe I can angle the projector down just a bit to fix this, but then I'm introducing slight focus issues. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm very picky, but for 3K it should have a perfectly square picture. Thanks.
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post #482 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tklein2 View Post

Let me first say that the 2D picture of the 8k seemed better than my RS40... even the black levels. The image also appears sharper and the colors seem more accurate. Granted, I have not calibrated it, but out of the box Cinema1 is fantastic in Economy lamp mode.
Anyway, my issue... I have it mounted from the ceiling 12 feet away and using a level, I have determined that it is perfectly level along with my new 120 inch screen. I used the lens shift joy stick (hate that thing) to make the final alignments. After all of that, I have key stoning issues, i.e. the top of the picture tapers in a little. Sure, with my 3 inch wide black projector screen frame, I can hide it, but it is noticeable when there is a 4:3 picture or when I access the menu system.
I keep verifying that it's level and I have never experienced this before with my 3 previous projectors all mounted in the same spot using the same mount. Is it possible that the lens is damaged? Maybe I can angle the projector down just a bit to fix this, but then I'm introducing slight focus issues. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm very picky, but for 3K it should have a perfectly square picture. Thanks.

I'm so happy I read this! I set up my 8K 2 weeks ago to replace my 4K. The 4K was a breeze to install and align. The 8K was more challenging with the joystick but after it was up I could NOT fully correct the key stoning I was having. It's not a major issue...don't notice it if the room is dark...but it is there and I literally tried to correct it for 30 minutes to no avail. I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was going to dismiss it but now I'm wondering if I should be calling Panny...

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post #483 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by IQ22 View Post

I'm so happy I read this! I set up my 8K 2 weeks ago to replace my 4K. The 4K was a breeze to install and align. The 8K was more challenging with the joystick but after it was up I could NOT fully correct the key stoning I was having. It's not a major issue...don't notice it if the room is dark...but it is there and I literally tried to correct it for 30 minutes to no avail. I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was going to dismiss it but now I'm wondering if I should be calling Panny...

Hmmm... now that I think about it, if you look at the bottom of the projector, it does not have 4 adjustable legs, only 2 in front. I wonder if the lens is setup to display a square picture when the projector is on a perfectly level table with the adjustable legs at their smallest height? If that is the case, then we would need to aim the projector down a small amount when hanging if from the ceiling.
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post #484 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 01:57 PM
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I just got off the phone with Panasonic projector support. First, the guy had no idea that the warranty was for 2 years, second he told me that if I was not using a Panasonic mount, they would not entertain any picture distortion issues. I told the guy that made no sense and that level is level regardless of the mount. I told him I would put it on a table and insure that the issue still exists. If I do that, then he said to send picture of the projector on a level table and the projected image issue to "projectorsupport@us.panasonic.com", along with my case number & team 15 in the subject. If they determine that there is an issue, within the 1st 30 days of ownership, I can exchange it with them for a new one or have it fixed and turned around within 4 business days of them receiving it. I would pick the exchange if it comes down to it.

If there are others out there that are noticing a key stone issue, please post it, along with your mounting situation. Tonight I will attempt to angle the projector off level.
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post #485 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tklein2 View Post

I just got off the phone with Panasonic projector support. First, the guy had no idea that the warranty was for 2 years, second he told me that if I was not using a Panasonic mount, they would not entertain any picture distortion issues. I told the guy that made no sense and that level is level regardless of the mount. I told him I would put it on a table and insure that the issue still exists. If I do that, then he said to send picture of the projector on a level table and the projected image issue to "projectorsupport@us.panasonic.com", along with my case number & team 15 in the subject. If they determine that there is an issue, within the 1st 30 days of ownership, I can exchange it with them for a new one or have it fixed and turned around within 4 business days of them receiving it. I would pick the exchange if it comes down to it.
If there are others out there that are noticing a key stone issue, please post it, along with your mounting situation. Tonight I will attempt to angle the projector off level.

The line about the Panny mount is ridiculous. I'd have to assume the % of people using the "official" amount is ridiculously small. I'm interested in hearing your findings. I won't be able to do it tonight, but perhaps I can run the same test this weekend (although I loath to take the unit down after all the effort I spent adjusting the darn joystick)!

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post #486 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 02:27 PM
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Hello mods....can we merge the two panny threads...its getting kinda tough going back and forth. Lots of good info in both threads!!
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post #487 of 497 Old 10-18-2012, 04:08 PM
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Merge please, and confirm once done. Thx!!
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The Moderno Theatre! Slideshow (here, and here!)
Pixar screenplay slideshows here!
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post #488 of 497 Old 10-19-2012, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tklein2 View Post

Let me first say that the 2D picture of the 8k seemed better than my RS40... even the black levels. The image also appears sharper and the colors seem more accurate. Granted, I have not calibrated it, but out of the box Cinema1 is fantastic in Economy lamp mode.
Anyway, my issue... I have it mounted from the ceiling 12 feet away and using a level, I have determined that it is perfectly level along with my new 120 inch screen. I used the lens shift joy stick (hate that thing) to make the final alignments. After all of that, I have key stoning issues, i.e. the top of the picture tapers in a little. Sure, with my 3 inch wide black projector screen frame, I can hide it, but it is noticeable when there is a 4:3 picture or when I access the menu system.
I keep verifying that it's level and I have never experienced this before with my 3 previous projectors all mounted in the same spot using the same mount. Is it possible that the lens is damaged? Maybe I can angle the projector down just a bit to fix this, but then I'm introducing slight focus issues. Anyone else experiencing this? I'm very picky, but for 3K it should have a perfectly square picture. Thanks.

I'm happy to report that it was user error. It turned out that the new screen I installed was not true! After taking it down and readjusting it, everything looks great! Panasonic's 8k image appears to be perfectly true. Sorry if I got you guys nervous.
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post #489 of 497 Old 10-23-2012, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgapt View Post

Yeah, I've played with the calculators before. I was actually looking for someone who had some experience with projectors as this is my first. Last night I went ahead and moved my projector back to approx. 15.5 to 16 feet. I can easily zoom out to 136" now. I can't tell that much if any loss of brightness, but I am sure there is some loss in FL.
One thing I have read is that you have to have the lens level with the top of the screen for lens memory to work. I have NOT noticed that at all. Am I missing something?

Doesn't have to be level, just can't be above the top of the screen

Please let me know how it turns out. Just picked up a Draper XT1000 1.0 gain 2.35 148" for my theater. Room is dedicated theater so it will be a bat cave. I used the calculators from projector central and it said I would be fine at 16' throw. Apparently I will end up at 18FL. Strangely enough I tried the same settings with a JVC projector at 1300 lumen and ended up at 17FL?

Sent from my GS3

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post #490 of 497 Old 10-24-2012, 08:06 PM
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I've been using the 8000 since it has come out. So far I'm pretty happy with my purchase. I have a 135" Elite Screen and haven't been disappointed. I have the 8000 ceiling mounted about 14-15' back in a total light controlled room with two rows of 3 seats (first row about 14', 2nd 18') in a 15x24' room.

I can say that it is pretty bright and I can even turn up my wall sconces and still view sports (ie. super bowl party style). The 3D is pretty nice. I have watched Kung Fu Panda 2 in 3D and it's pretty awesome, however, it is noticeably darker. The movie is mostly dark though. I have other 3D movies that I have yet to test (only one live action: Tron: Legacy). Also, I played an old PS3 game (Ico) in 3D and it was very dark even after turning up the brightness all the way in the game. I enjoyed the 3D part but found myself constantly looking "under" the glasses to look for brighter details. Fast camera movement didn't keep up very well either. This is probably one of the first 3D games though so I wouldn't put much stock in it. I have one or two other 3D games I'll look into later.

More on 3D, I just got a 3D capable DVR from Time Warner (my cable provider) and tried to watch their 3D movies on demand (they have several free short films). However, I ran into a problem with seeing two distinct images top/bottom style and I couldn't make it work. It wasn't until I went into the 3D menu on the 8000 and took it off Auto and put it specifically on Top/Bottom view before it would work. So it looks like Auto does not work on the 8000.

I will try to report more as I watch more content.
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post #491 of 497 Old 10-25-2012, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holmern View Post

Please let me know how it turns out. Just picked up a Draper XT1000 1.0 gain 2.35 148" for my theater. Room is dedicated theater so it will be a bat cave. I used the calculators from projector central and it said I would be fine at 16' throw. Apparently I will end up at 18FL. Strangely enough I tried the same settings with a JVC projector at 1300 lumen and ended up at 17FL?
Sent from my GS3

I haven't had any problems with mine. Picture looks good, but 148" WOW. Now I can't imagine how huge that will look. Screen envy. How big is your room?
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post #492 of 497 Old 11-05-2012, 11:17 AM
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This review (which I wrote) might be of interest to anyone browsing this thread:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-pt-at6000-201211052339.htm

David Mackenzie
DVD/BD Compressionist/Author
Reviewer & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest
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post #493 of 497 Old 12-14-2012, 06:33 PM
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Finally got my free 3D glasses today, so I'll be testing them out tonight. Do I need to do anything special to connect them to the projector, or do they automatically sync up when the projector goes into 3D mode?
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post #494 of 497 Old 01-29-2013, 06:26 AM
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The PT-AE8000U (US VERSION) PT-AT6000E, can owners confirm, in 3D (for 3D gaming) and set to "gaming mode"... is there any input lag?

I have an optoma HD33, in 3D with all the image processing turned off its completely lag free for gaming, but put it into 3D and a tiny bit of input lag occurs. Enough to make FPS difficult.

Thanks for your time. biggrin.gif
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post #495 of 497 Old 02-10-2013, 09:06 AM
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is there any way to change screen alignment how can i enter there
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post #496 of 497 Old 03-04-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post

Finally got my free 3D glasses today, so I'll be testing them out tonight. Do I need to do anything special to connect them to the projector, or do they automatically sync up when the projector goes into 3D mode?

Can I ask how long it took for you to get your glasses? I know the rebate form says 6-8 weeks, but did it really take that long? I'm hoping not... Panasonic received my rebate on 2/21/13
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post #497 of 497 Old 09-04-2013, 08:18 PM
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KEYSTONE EFFECT:

The keystone effect comes only from one problem: that projection screen and LCD panel inside the projector are not perfectly parallel.
If anything else caused it, such as some internal misalignment of the projector lens, which is extremely unlikely, you'd have a blurry picture.

Since that's not the case, the reason is very simple: You don't have your projector set up properly.
However you measure what is "level" does not matter one bit as it is NOT THE HOUSING of the projector that produces the image, but the LCD chip inside of it. You cannot possibly know its exact position and orientation to be able to claim anything. Even if Panasonic was to give us a clue as to exact location of the LCD panel, it would make very little sense as it would have to be in 3d, and that;s almost impossible. The only way would be to print the exact plane of the LCD panel on at least two sides of the projector, like on the top and on the side, and even then - how would one use that to measure how parallel are those small lines to a large screen?

Therefore, it is much easier to start from this simple fact: screen and LCD panel which are parallel, will always, with no exception, produce an image which has all sides parallel; EVEN when the lens is de-centered. With that in mind, one can also work backwards: if there is any keystone effect on the image, meaning the edges of the projected image are not parallel, there can only be one cause: the LCD panel is not parallel to the projection screen. So, work backwards: continue adjusting the position/orientation of the projector until you achieve perfect geometry of the picture.

Panasonic may have taken all this into account when they created the mount for the projector; if I were Panasonic, I too would not be interested in knowing what other mount someone may be using as there is no way to know how that mount would influence the geometry of the picture.

If you don't understand it all, just to illustrate, look through your window and notice how some cars or buildings or people seem smaller because they are further, and some appear larger because they are closer. Now, if you wanted to make sure that we all saw exactly the same thing, we would all have to be the same height, and in the same building, and looking through the same window... hence, Panasonic has all the right to ask their users to use only their mounts so that Panasonic knows all the variables. Otherwise, it is a shot in the dark.

As for me, I would just use any mount I like, but would take full responsibility for the quality of the image, and not expect the impossible: The keystone effect has nothing to do with one's level or any other measurement- it has everything to do with the orientation of the LCD panel in relationship to the screen. If those are not parallel, keystone will be present, a sign to continue working on the setup some more. Once the geometry of the image is good, you have achieved the correct position/orientation of the projector.

This is all nothing new, but since I have been working in the industry of digital images before most people ever even heard of such stuff, I feel a bit qualified to explain this (in truth, I really don't like it when a good product gets bad rap for someone's lack of understanding).

Just to illustrate how these things work: have you ever seen how a DP on a film set adjusts the focus? Do you think they look through the viewfinder and adjust it the way most photographers do? No, and the reason is that a movie is projected on a huge screen and even the minutest error will be blown up and easy to spot. So a good DP, in a close up shot where focus is critical, will NOT rely on focus ring and lens, but will rather measure with measuring tape the distance from the actors eyes, to the so called "film plane" which is always indicated on film cameras (and some pro still photo cameras, such as Nikon). Then, once that measurement is taken, they will dial it in on the lens, taking into account all other possible things such as variations that happen due to changing focal length on a zoom lens and so on.... I am only mentioning this to show that adjusting a lens/image plane with relationship to the subject/projection screen is no small matter. It is to be taken seriously, but luckily at least when it comes to setting up your PJ you only have to do it once. And then, make sure no one bumps into your projector.
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