Buying advice: JVC X30 or JVC X9? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 08-05-2012, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi to everyone,

I searched all the forum and I could not find specific buying advice for JVC projector: I came across a store which sells new JVC X30 and new JVC X9 for the same price (I'm not too interested in 3D and I watch only documentaries and movies).

The main differences between the X30 and X70/X90 are contrast and 4K. Since the X9 has better contrast than the X30, and both don't have 4K, I would assume that the X9 is better suited to my needs than the X30. Please advice and comment! Help me chose what's better for my needs.

Thanks in Advance!
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-06-2012, 05:58 PM
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I am guessing that your screen is not real big. With that being the case, I would guess that the X9 might be the better choice for you because of the CMS and higher contrast. Would help if we knw your screen size, screen gain and viewing distance.
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post #3 of 31 Old 08-07-2012, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I appreciate your time and expertise.

What is CMS?

I own a Yamaha DPX 1200 and yesterday I saw the JVC X30: the contrast and black levels are incredible but the colour is off. My Yamaha, 7 years old, and worth maybe 10$ does a much better job!

The vendor then used the same screen type & size, side by side and switched on an X70! Now, that's what I call natural. the colours are still not as brilliant as on my DPX1200 but the whites and skin tones are much better than on the X30!

So, a few questions:
1. Can a professional calibration bring the X30's colours to the same (or near) level of the X70?
2. Which devices share the same colour chips of the X70? Of course the X90 but what about the X7 and X9? HD750? HD900? Unfortunately the X70 is priced at 510,000yen (6,500$ equivalent) new and it's outside my range. So I'm looking for something as close as possible.

Screen size 140"
Maker Kikuchi (I think 1.0 gain)
Room completely white except beige carpet and very low black marble table in the middle
Viewing distance 4.5m

In reference to the contrast potential of my room, pls note that I will darken the room with a black, matt, curtain to go all around. But the ceiling will remain white.
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post #4 of 31 Old 08-07-2012, 08:35 AM
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A 1.0 gain screen with a 140" on a JVC is really pushing it. It is not something I'd personally attempt, that screen is too big and it will end up too dim.
Take a look at the Epson 5010 or Benq w7000 or something else that is brighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

Thanks, I appreciate your time and expertise.
What is CMS?

So, a few questions:
1. Can a professional calibration bring the X30's colours to the same (or near) level of the X70?
2. Which devices share the same colour chips of the X70? Of course the X90 but what about the X7 and X9? HD750? HD900? Unfortunately the X70 is priced at 510,000yen (6,500$ equivalent) new and it's outside my range. So I'm looking for something as close as possible.
Screen size 140"
Maker Kikuchi (I think 1.0 gain)
Room completely white except beige carpet and very low black marble table in the middle
Viewing distance 4.5m
In reference to the contrast potential of my room, pls note that I will darken the room with a black, matt, curtain to go all around. But the ceiling will remain white.

Each JVC will calibrate slightly differently, but only the RS-55/RS-65 (x70/x90) have the full CMS. The older JVC's RS-50/Rs-60 (x7/x9) also have a full CMS, but there were some issues with using the CMS as compared to the newer models in which the CMS appears to work better.

If someone calibrated the gamma for you properly and the gray-scale, then the RS-40/RS-45 should generally be accurate enough for most peoples' tastes. There is some unit variance to its accuracy, so cannot say exactly how accurate the unit you purchased will calibrate. Sometimes it tends to exhibit a slight color bias that cannot be 100% removed, but it's not very noticeable in most content even when its there. Keep in mind that no projector really calibrates perfectly either, but the RS-45 lacking a full CMS may not calibrate quite as good as a few others in its price range. That said, most likely the RS-40/RS-45 you saw was just setup improperly and did not have gray-scale or gamma calibrated. You also have to keep in mind that so many movies have their own color inaccuracies and bias so that it makes it hard to judge a calibration unless you are looking at somewhat neutral content. You could be watching a movie and one projector might look more accurate even when the opposite is true.

A full CMS is the ability to edit the color gamut, generally at a minimum the ability to adjust primary (RGB) and secondary colors (CMY) for adjusting gain, saturation, and hue. However, you'd also expect the ability to fine tune gamma and tune some other things. Some projectors allow gray-scale and gamma but not all settings for adjusting the color gamut (much like the RS-45 lacks). What the CMS does is extends the standard calibration ability to allow you to fine tune the colors at different levels of intensity to allow them to be more true to their natural color (a non-calibrated gamut is kind of like mixing paints that are close to the correct color, but not quite perfectly accurate). The JVC RS-40 and RS-45 does NOT have a full CMS, but the color gamut is fairly close, but as noted there are unit variances to each unit. There are programs on an HTPC that allow you to add a FULL CMS for free, but they are hard to use and a bit tedious to setup. You can buy a video processor to do it (Lumagen or DVD iDUO).
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-07-2012, 10:59 AM
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Thanks, Coderguy. I had a post partially typed out and ran into internet problems and lost it. I agree about the screen. Did the OPer light up that size screen with his Yamaha? I don't hardly see how, but if he did the projectors that he is talking about are brighter than the Yamaha. The X30/RS45 is the brightest of the projectors listed above.
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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@coderguy,
Thank you. You explained very thoroughly and simply everything. The good news is that I should be able to calibrate the X30 almost perfect skin tones, whites and colour balance. Previously I was swaying to the X7 and X9 instead of the X30 only because of the colour neutrality of the X70 colour chip. But, as you said, perhaps the calibration was not perfect... very likely. I'll check the X30 in another dealer.
Thanks, really. You have no idea how much I appreciate all you guys who lend a hand. Not only you're probably saving me thousands of dollars but, more important, you are helping me get what I want.
I know, it sounds stupid that I don't know what I want... but I only know the end result which I want and I don't know how to get it!

@ Mike and coderguy
Screen: I'm shopping for a new screen as this one has some sagging... Consider that other forum members are helping me to make my living room very black with black matt velvet curtains etc... So I should not suffer any light reflection.
Before, my Yamaha was constantly on full brightness and, to be honest, I would have enjoyed something a bit brighter. But colours were very natural. And I miss that.

Screen size: 140" (16:9)
What screen gain do you recommend?
Viewing distance: 4.8m
Lens distance: 4.9m
The room will have black non reflecting curtains all around but, possibly, still have a white ceiling.
Please consider that my finances are super stretched and rather than compromise I will wait a year or so before upgrading components. Priority to the projector, then screen, then curtains, then media recorder player
Considering the size of the screen, how do the X30 and X7 and X9 lumens compare? more or less the same?

Again, coderguy and Mike, thanks, I really appreciate your help!
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post #7 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 05:23 PM
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I would look at the Da-Lite HIgh Power screen for that setup, but it sounds like large screens may be out of your budget, but if you can splurge for the HP and mount the JVC close to your head it will give around 1.8 to 2.2 gain depending exactly where you mount it and where you sit. Otherwise, you will probably be ok at 1.5 gain, but you may burn through more lamps then you want to. It really depends how many hours you put on your projector each year and how much you mind spending for lamp replacements.

The problem going above 1.4 to 1.5 gain with a normal screen (non-retro-reflective) is often hot-spotting and other issues, 1.4 to 1.5 gain seems to be where the cut-off point is for most screens not to have too many side effects. That said, the HP screen doesn't have many side effects as long as you can put up with its caveats (odd mounting spots, narrower bright viewing cone so that 2 people per row is best in theater).

Since you said your finances are super stretched, you may need to do a DIY screen instead, I don't think you can get good cheap screens at that size (even a Da-Lite HP is expensive in that size).
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post #8 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

@coderguy,
Thank you. You explained very thoroughly and simply everything. The good news is that I should be able to calibrate the X30 almost perfect skin tones, whites and colour balance. Previously I was swaying to the X7 and X9 instead of the X30 only because of the colour neutrality of the X70 colour chip. But, as you said, perhaps the calibration was not perfect... very likely. I'll check the X30 in another dealer.
Thanks, really. You have no idea how much I appreciate all you guys who lend a hand. Not only you're probably saving me thousands of dollars but, more important, you are helping me get what I want.
I know, it sounds stupid that I don't know what I want... but I only know the end result which I want and I don't know how to get it!
@ Mike and coderguy
Screen: I'm shopping for a new screen as this one has some sagging... Consider that other forum members are helping me to make my living room very black with black matt velvet curtains etc... So I should not suffer any light reflection.
Before, my Yamaha was constantly on full brightness and, to be honest, I would have enjoyed something a bit brighter. But colours were very natural. And I miss that.
Screen size: 140" (16:9)
What screen gain do you recommend?
Viewing distance: 4.8m
Lens distance: 4.9m
The room will have black non reflecting curtains all around but, possibly, still have a white ceiling.
Please consider that my finances are super stretched and rather than compromise I will wait a year or so before upgrading components. Priority to the projector, then screen, then curtains, then media recorder player
Considering the size of the screen, how do the X30 and X7 and X9 lumens compare? more or less the same?
Again, coderguy and Mike, thanks, I really appreciate your help!

With that throw distance and 140" diagonal 16:9 screen, Screen Inovations Solar 4K has enough gain that it would work well with an X30.
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 07:52 PM
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I think it's probably way out of his budget at the size he is wanting. Thinking DIY screen is his only answer.
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

... cut
if you can splurge for the HP and mount the JVC close to your head.
I sit about 15cm from the lens and about 4.7m from the screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

... cut but you may burn through more lamps then you want to. It really depends how many hours you put on your projector each year and how much you mind spending for lamp replacements.
About 1,000hrs/yr.
But my Yamaha DPX1200 burns about 1.5 lamps/yr (even though it is rated for 2,000 hrs). At 500$ each you can see how I thought of upgrading the projector to a natively brighter one, so that I won't need to keep it on full power all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Since you said your finances are super stretched, you may need to do a DIY screen instead, I don't think you can get good cheap screens at that size (even a Da-Lite HP is expensive in that size).
Pls consider that I keep a projector more than 5 yrs. Typically 7.
I can spend max 3,000$ per year for a grand total of 6,000$.
What do you advise me?

X30, New = 2,500$ (but rapidly, very rapidly dropping further - next month should be able to pick up a new one for 2,200/2,300USD)
X30, JVC refurbished (w/ full JVC 2 yr warranty) = 2,200$ and dropping fast.
X70, New = 6,700$ beyond budget
X70, Ex dealer demo = 5,700$ w/ old lamp beyond budget
X9 New = 3,800$ beyond budget (price dropping fast)
X9, JVC refurbished (w/ full JVC 2 yr warranty) = 2,800$
X7, New = 2,500$ (dropping fast, on a par w/ new X30)

Most important is neutral colour balance and real skin tone.
50% use w/ Downloaded Movies, 30% Netfilx, 20% HD Documentaries.
No 3D whatsoever and only about 2 or 3 BR per year.

Coderguy, THANKS a lot! I really appreciate your help!
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post #11 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 08:53 PM
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I'm going to throw you for a bit of a loop here.

Your first problem is going to be your downloaded content more than the projector you pick. I don't want to discourage you, but downloadable content and Netflix is not going to look that great on any projector (and this is not JVC's strength either). A JVC's strength is with Bluray disks. I watch a lot of Netflix and sometimes it looks really good, but it's just really inconsistent even if you are watching NETFLIX HD STREAMING. What I do for most of my viewing is I go to Redbox and use cable. One thing I noticed when moving from older 720p projectors to newer 1080p's was the 1080p projectors had a tendency to show more noise and faults in the image due to the higher resolution. With a clean source the 1080p looks worlds better, but without it, not so much.

If I were watching the type of content you are going to watch at that many hours (1000+ per year), I'd also consider either a two projector setup, or a DLP. For one, the JVC lamps aren't known to be spectacular, even if the issues are fixed. With 1,000 hours per year of usage, and your downloaded viewing content, it is hard to recommend a JVC without some reservations (even with gain). That said, AVS will stand behind the lamps if they go early, but then again for long-term usage it might get expensive.

If you are doing a 16:9 screen and NEVER plan on doing a 2.35, you might go with the B-STOCK RS-40 instead and pair it with a CHEAP DLP as a second projector. The RS-40 is essentially the same projector as the RS-45 except the RS-40 lacks 2.35 lens memory (which you won't need), but it will save you a few more hundred and give you some savings to buy an extra spare lamp with the money saved.

Overall, your setup is a tough one to recommend a specific model due to your viewing type of mostly streaming and downloadable content on such a large screen.
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post #12 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 09:07 PM
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Your post contains excellent info.

But I'm wondering about this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

it is hard to recommend a JVC with a big screen at all (even with gain). .

How big is "big?"

I'm using my JVC RS55 with a Stewart ST-130 (1.3 gain) screen, using image sizes of up to 125" wide for scope, and about 135" diagonal for 16:9. I find it plenty bright (and I really don't like dim images), such that I've never even had to venture near opening up the iris all the way even in low bulb mode (after about I'm guessing 400 hours or more on the bulb). Well, I do like to open the iris up for sports on the bigger image sizes, but for movies I've been amazingly happy with image brightness over time.
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 09:12 PM
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I agree that is bright enough at 1.3 gain for a while, but being an enthusiast the way I see the JVC's is every +1 on the aperture is 2000+ loss in Native On/Off.

The other thing is just how lucky someone is with lamps and how many hours they use it per year, 1000 hours per year on a 140" screen is a LOT of usage for a JVC lamp the way things have been playing out lately. It is really hard to go by one person's experience on one lamp, but overall in my long-term projector experience, rarely have I felt I had too much brightness, almost always I want more as the lamp ages. We could take wild guesses and say the average JVC lamp lasts 1000 to 1500 hours before major dimming, some may rarely approach 2000, some may only get to 500. He noted he wanted to get away from expensive lamps on his Yamaha, the JVC is pretty expensive on lamps here too. So that was the main point.

NOTE:
I am NOT saying that he shouldn't buy a JVC, I am just saying it is a harder decision in his position, and that he has more obstacles than some do.
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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@ Rich,
When I looked at JVC's brightness I was considering Rich's posts and experience.

@ coderguy, you are right: my HT ignorance led me to believe that what is considered the most acclaimed brand of pjs would be a safe bet. But your post exposes many issues... and questions...

- I don't have cable here bcs it's 80% Japanese content and the remaining English language payperview costs as much as renting the same movie in BR.
- I don't have a tuner bcs I couldn't care less for Japanese TV or sports in general.
- I don't rent bcs of cost and bcs not all US films are out in Japan. And if they arrive they are always 6 months late.
- Netflix or downloaded content are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better selection and price/film.
- I wish you could help me to find other HD film/documentary sources.
- I films, about one per night w/ my GF, as we're both movie & popcorn fans.
- I often watch HD documentaries at lunch
- I only miss F1, Superbike and MotoGP.
- I need a home networked HT bcs much of our downloaded content is resident on different computers
- I usually copy content on a USB memory stick and I play it from my WD HD-TV
And that's how I add up to some 1000hrs/yr. Basically I need HD films/documentaries at at reasonable prices.

1. Any content source advice?
2. What is RedBox?
3. Would you help me to understand what my (technical) needs are?
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post #15 of 31 Old 08-08-2012, 10:14 PM
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Since you are in Japan, your downloaded content might be better than what we are used to in the United States (I am not sure). Blurays are awesome on the JVC. Redbox is just a machine that is in front of stores that you can rent movies (DVD and Blurays) from like a soda machine, but instead a movie comes out (not sure if they have the same thing in Japan).

The only thing you have going against you is the longevity of the JVC lamps and the brightness fading. You might also consider an Epson 5010 (probably a different model number in Japan?), but the issue with that one is coming from a DLP you may not like the LCD image as much. I'd say try to get out and go see the JVC and an Epson 5010 yourself to compare. I'm sure there are a few at stores for viewing in Tokyo somewhere. In your position, it is harder to give a confident recommendation because the viewing type is more complex as well as the large screen + requested lamp life, but I think the Epson 5010 might be a better match overall if I had to guess.

VUDU has the highest quality streaming, but it is also far more expensive, although you can often catch the 99 cent movie of the day for $1.99 in HD. HULU Plus has some good quality streaming for their HD content, but the selection is limited (you run out of stuff to watch pretty soon and they don't add new things that fast). Hulu Plus is good at first. I'd put Netflix as 3rd best streaming quality behind Vudu and HULU plus, but Netflix has the best selection and is less expensive. For me anyhow, Amazon.com has the worst / lowest quality HD streaming. Of course it might just be my setup. I am not sure what other types of viewing you could do, other than buying or renting movies.
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post #16 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Content:
Nope! No Red Box in Japan and we download from the US or Russia.
Here there is not much English content.
Besides, neither of us can read a lot of Japanese so websites are quite difficult to search through.
What's the best source of HD 1080p content at reasonable prices. Or, rather, does a content source at reasonable price even exist?
Is Netflix only 720p?
I view HD movies, are they not 1080p?
Any other content providers which stream 1080p?
By content I mean films.

Hardware:
They carry the Epson 5010 and I watch it. Along with Mitsubishi, and others... It was not very movie like. By "movie like" I mean it felt electric or digital.
The best image came from the X70/90 (I could not make out any difference whatsoever!!), then X30 then the Sony VW1000 and finally the VW95.
They were the closest both in colour and texture to my tastes.

I also checked the lamp prices of both JVC and Epson... both around 300$. No particular convenience to go the Epson way.
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post #17 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so, I'll just have to live with the fact that lamp life cost will be there.
About 750$/yr Yamaha
About 450$/yr JVC (assuming same performance)
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post #18 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I agree that is bright enough at 1.3 gain for a while, but being an enthusiast the way I see the JVC's is every +1 on the aperture is 2000+ loss in Native On/Off.
The other thing is just how lucky someone is with lamps and how many hours they use it per year, 1000 hours per year on a 140" screen is a LOT of usage for a JVC lamp the way things have been playing out lately. It is really hard to go by one person's experience on one lamp, but overall in my long-term projector experience, rarely have I felt I had too much brightness, almost always I want more as the lamp ages. We could take wild guesses and say the average JVC lamp lasts 1000 to 1500 hours before major dimming, some may rarely approach 2000, some may only get to 500. He noted he wanted to get away from expensive lamps on his Yamaha, the JVC is pretty expensive on lamps here too. So that was the main point.
NOTE:
I am NOT saying that he shouldn't buy a JVC, I am just saying it is a harder decision in his position, and that he has more obstacles than some do.

The lamp on the Yamaha makes the JVC lamp look affordable. The screen that I recommended has been tested at 1.37 gain. That along with the fact that an X30/RS45 is much brighter than his Yamaha, I feel pretty comfortable with matching that to a 140" diagonal 16:9 screen.
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post #19 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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@ Coderguy, Rich and Mike,

Guys, thanx a million. You're very helpful and if you pass by Tokyo, I'll have a guest room waiting for you in my home!

1. Software:
I'll have to do with Vudu, Hulu and Netflix for the time (until BR prices will fall or I will be able to rent them over the internet)

2. Hardware
PJ:
I'm strongly considering JVC X9, refurbished by JVC, with 2 yrs warranty, new lamp and free delivery at home.
Basically I will be buying a new X90 w/out e-shift and 1:10000 less contrast for 2,800$
I don't think I can get a much better value for money than that.
Screen:
Mike's advice (or any other) will be my next investment.
Media-player+HDD+Network?
Any advice for the best network player (for Vudu, Hulu, Netflix) w/ 1TB HDD, possibly w/ independent internet download enabled, and recording functions?
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post #20 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 08:27 AM
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Keep in mind that the x9 (RS-60) is the dimmest of all these projectors. Due to an issue with the CMS making it less bright as well as it not being as bright from the start, it will not put out nearly the same amount of lumens as the X30 or X3 or x70. Sure it is tempting to get that slightly better black levels, but you will lose too much brightness. JVC fixed this problem on the newer models, that is why you can often find JVC X9's ridiculously cheap for their quality, because of the brightness issue.

There is no way I would install a JVC RS-60 (x9) on a 140" screen with 1.3 gain, that is a bad idea. The x30 is borderline enough, much less the x9. I think you will be ok with the x30 or the x70, but not the x7 or x9 (they are both dimmer, the X9 being the dimmest).

If it were me, I'd even want 1.5 gain at least for that screen size and an x30 or x70, but everyone has a different idea on what is bright enough (for me I calculate it as partly visible brightness but partly lamp costs). I'd give up on the idea of the x7 or x9 entirely unless you want to go to a much smaller and/or much higher gain screen.
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post #21 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Woooooooooooooooooow!!!! eek.gif

This is such a cold shower! No, I won't go beyond 1.4 or 1.5 as we have 2 seats separated by 2 meters (at about 4.7m from the screen).
So no X9 and back to X30...
Next investment is the dark velvet curtain and after that a media-player w/ HDD, WiFi, that can stream Vudu and Hulu and, possibly, also Netflix Plus. Later on a BD player (Oppo93?) and next year a good +1.4 gain screen.

Coderguy, thank you a million!!!!!
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post #22 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 08:56 AM
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The x3, x30 or x70 (not X7) is your best bet as they are relatively close in brightness (any of these will work), the others are all dimmer.
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post #23 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascanio1 View Post

@ Coderguy, Rich and Mike,
Guys, thanx a million. You're very helpful and if you pass by Tokyo, I'll have a guest room waiting for you in my home!
1. Software:
I'll have to do with Vudu, Hulu and Netflix for the time (until BR prices will fall or I will be able to rent them over the internet)
2. Hardware
PJ:
I'm strongly considering JVC X9, refurbished by JVC, with 2 yrs warranty, new lamp and free delivery at home.
Basically I will be buying a new X90 w/out e-shift and 1:10000 less contrast for 2,800$
I don't think I can get a much better value for money than that.
Screen:
Mike's advice (or any other) will be my next investment.
Media-player+HDD+Network?
Any advice for the best network player (for Vudu, Hulu, Netflix) w/ 1TB HDD, possibly w/ independent internet download enabled, and recording functions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Keep in mind that the x9 (RS-60) is the dimmest of all these projectors. Due to an issue with the CMS making it less bright as well as it not being as bright from the start, it will not put out nearly the same amount of lumens as the X30 or X3 or x70. Sure it is tempting to get that slightly better black levels, but you will lose too much brightness. JVC fixed this problem on the newer models, that is why you can often find JVC X9's ridiculously cheap for their quality, because of the brightness issue.
There is no way I would install a JVC RS-60 (x9) on a 140" screen with 1.3 gain, that is a bad idea. The x30 is borderline enough, much less the x9. I think you will be ok with the x30 or the x70, but not the x7 or x9 (they are both dimmer, the X9 being the dimmest).
If it were me, I'd even want 1.5 gain at least for that screen size and an x30 or x70, but everyone has a different idea on what is bright enough (for me I calculate it as partly visible brightness but partly lamp costs). I'd give up on the idea of the x7 or x9 entirely unless you want to go to a much smaller and/or much higher gain screen.

Agree with Coderguy, X9 is not bright enough for that size (excluding HP screen) screen. Also don't just go by manufacturer's specs with respect to gain. With a 140" diagonal screen, I would only look at the RS45/X30, paired with a High Power would be great if you could low mount the projector. Also paired with the Screen Inovations Solar 4K it would be a good match. An X9 paired with a High Power would work, but only if the projector was mounted a little above your eye balls.
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post #24 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

... (excluding HP screen) screen.
Is HP screen a brand or a type?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Also don't just go by manufacturer's specs with respect to gain.
Hmmm, good advice. I'll look up in this forum's screen section.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

With a 140" diagonal screen, I would only look at the RS45/X30, paired with a High Power would be great if you could low mount the projector. Also paired with the Screen Inovations Solar 4K it would be a good match.
So far I have 3 names:
HighPower
Screen Innovations Solar4K
Stewart-ST (+1.37)
I'll check for the best cost/performance out of these 3 makers
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

An X9 paired with a High Power would work, but only if the projector was mounted a little above your eye balls.
Ceiling mount + wide spread audience (left&right) - my home has a thick floor carpet with lots of pillows on which to sprawl.
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post #25 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 06:04 PM
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The high power is screen made by the Dalite company here in the US. I have a 142" 16:9 version of their older 2.8 gain material.. it wasn't cheap at this size. The new material is a bit lower gain @ 2.4. This is the maximum gain you can get when putting the projector as close as possible to eye level (usually a wall or shelf mount). The benefit is a much brighter image than you'll get with a unity gain screen (1.0). It doesn't work as well with a ceiling mount... might as well pick a less expensive low gain screen.

lamps will dim over time as well.. so when the projector lamp is new, it's as bright as it's going to get, then go down hill from there.

if your limited to a ceiling mount, a projector like the Epson 5010 and it's torch mode could likely light up a low gain 140" in 2D, but wouldn't expect much in 3D. Same thing for the BQ W7000 which puts out 1500 lumens in 2D.

FYI -despite the advertised specs, the X9 was one of the dimmest JVC projectors since the old RS2. The newer X90 is noticeably brighter in it's best mode than last years model.. however I would still not recommend it with a 140" low gain screen, even in 2D. ~900 lumens wouldn't cut it for me on a screen that big without some appreciable gain.
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post #26 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
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The high power is screen made by the Dalite company here in the US. I have a 142" 16:9 version of their older 2.8 gain material.. it wasn't cheap at this size. The new material is a bit lower gain @ 2.4. This is the maximum gain you can get when putting the projector as close as possible to eye level (usually a wall or shelf mount). The benefit is a much brighter image than you'll get with a unity gain screen (1.0). It doesn't work as well with a ceiling mount... might as well pick a less expensive low gain screen.
lamps will dim over time as well.. so when the projector lamp is new, it's as bright as it's going to get, then go down hill from there.
if your limited to a ceiling mount, a projector like the Epson 5010 and it's torch mode could likely light up a low gain 140" in 2D, but wouldn't expect much in 3D. Same thing for the BQ W7000 which puts out 1500 lumens in 2D.
FYI -despite the advertised specs, the X9 was one of the dimmest JVC projectors since the old RS2. The newer X90 is noticeably brighter in it's best mode than last years model.. however I would still not recommend it with a 140" low gain screen, even in 2D. ~900 lumens wouldn't cut it for me on a screen that big without some appreciable gain.

So I have a ceiling mount that is center the screen but about 8" above the top, I have the lens shift all the way down to get it on the screen. If I shelf mounted the projector dead center would I notice a big difference in brightness on my 1.1 screen?
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post #27 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 07:08 PM
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So I have a ceiling mount that is center the screen but about 8" above the top, I have the lens shift all the way down to get it on the screen. If I shelf mounted the projector dead center would I notice a big difference in brightness on my 1.1 screen?

Changing the mounting position of a projector only helps with retro-reflective screens or screens with non-uniform gain. Most regular screens will not benefit from changing your mounting position, you would need a Da-Lite High Power screen to get more gain by changing your mounting position + changing your screen material.



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post #28 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you know if the X9 inferior lumens output, with respect to the X90, was/is caused by the old lamps or if it is inherent in its design?
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post #29 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
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Changing the mounting position of a projector only helps with retro-reflective screens or screens with non-uniform gain. Most regular screens will not benefit from changing your mounting position, you would need a Da-Lite High Power screen to get more gain by changing your mounting position + changing your screen material.

Going from a 1.1 to a 2.4, is there really a big noticeable difference in brightness? I have a 106" screen now and was thinking about buying the one listed below but I don't want to spend that kind of money on a slight increase or something that's going to lessen the black levels or contrast.

Da-Lite 71409 Perm-Wall Screen

106" diagonal image size (16:9 viewing area)
viewing area: 92"W x 52"H
High Contrast High Power® surface with screen gain of 2.4
optimal viewing angle range is 20° half-angle, 40° total
1" aluminum frame with anti-reflective black powder-coat finish
vinyl screen material is durable and easy to clean
overall dimensions: 96"W x 56"H
warranty: 1 year

Do you think this is a good screen?
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post #30 of 31 Old 08-09-2012, 08:00 PM
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Do you know if the X9 inferior lumens output, with respect to the X90, was/is caused by the old lamps or if it is inherent in its design?

Not the lamp, since they both use the same lamp. Also the ST130 is 1.3 gain. The Solar 4k was the material that measured 1.37 gain. With a 16' throw, you are looking at a little over 17 Foot Lamberts in low lamp mode. Not bad for such a large room, particularly in a good room.
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