Marantz VP 15S1 Replacement - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I just registered to attend this years CEDIA in Indianapolis. I am looking forward to (hopefully) being able to see the DLP competitors in action.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #32 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 02:45 PM
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Shadow detail...

The people that say the JVC's have better shadow detail then a good DLP is confusing shadow detail as used by me and many others.

It is very difficualt to see the difference between black level 16 / 17 / 18 (video level) on the RS55 I had owned even after calibration. The gamma controls are just not precise enough to get that low. Even with the 5% gamma correction, it is still only calibrating video levels around 26, that's nowhere near level 16 / 17 / 18

All DLP's I have worked with do an amazing job with differentiating 16 / 17 / 18 . That to me, is shadow detail.

I 100% agree 16 / 17 / 18 are not as dark on DLP as they are on a JVC. But it is much easier to see the seperation making shadow detail easier to see while a movie is playing.

I use some very specific scenes in movies that have "shadow" details all the way down to 16. On the JVC you barly see them, on the DLP's you can easily. So take that for what it's worth.

If that is not shadow detail I need to know what better term I can use to describe this in the future.

One huge and i mean huge benifit of the JVC though is how Dementional the image can look in dark scenes. To me that is the major benifit of the super high on / off.

No current DLP that i have seen can touch a JVC in this aspect. And it is a very addicting feature indeed.
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post #33 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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SOWK-

Didn't you once have a VP15S1 in your theater?

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #34 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

SOWK-
Didn't you once have a VP15S1 in your theater?

VP-11S2.
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post #35 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

It is very difficualt to see the difference between black level 16 / 17 / 18 (video level) on the RS55 I had owned even after calibration. The gamma controls are just not precise enough to get that low. Even with the 5% gamma correction, it is still only calibrating video levels around 26, that's nowhere near level 16 / 17 / 18

It is difficult to calibrate the gamma on the JVC, it can take hours. My VL 16/17/18 are OK on my RS-45. I don't always use the same gamma and brightness settings in every movie. I don't know about your RS-55 though (or the RS-55 in general), I mean every unit is a bit different. Some movies just weren't filmed or mastered that well to be as dark on the gamma and black floor as the JVC can go (since movie projectors have such higher black floors). So, shadow detail in some scenes is just going to be easier to see when the black floor is higher, but that is not a function of the shadow detail capabilities of the projector but instead is a side effect of a darker black floor.

Despite that, I usually see better detail on the JVC in dark scenes than I've ever seen before on any other projector. Take the below image as an example (look at the definition of the texture in the pattern between their shoulders), this image was taken at the same time (top over bottom) with 2 PJ's running at the same time. Gamma is both exactly 2.2 on both PJ's and the fL was the same. I've repeated the experiment on different projectors.



Another side effect I sometimes see on some DLP's (but probably not higher-end ones so much), is that even though they are better in bright scenes a little bit, they tend to be worse when mixed scenes are slightly on the darker side (DLP tends to show a bright veil over the image when you A/B, sort of like below). Even though the scene is a mixed contrast scene, it's just dark enough to where On/Off starts mattering more. Even in scenes that are sometimes just a tiny bit brighter than evening time brightness have this effect on DLP's I've seen (and I've seen the effect on 3-chip DLP's as well). Many films have lots of scenes near evening time or darker, although it is mostly because I am a big fan of WESTERNS and SCI FI I suppose.



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post #36 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 05:32 PM
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Why is there a pure black oval on the left side of Harry potter on both pictures?
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post #37 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 05:55 PM
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I was trying to make sure both the top and bottom were equalized (or something like that) to what I was seeing on the screen based on the camera. I took the pictures a long time ago. I didn't get it exact, but it was close enough.

The DLP I used was a Mits hc4000 (not a high-end one), but ANSI contrast has been measured as high as 1000:1, most of the measurements were 700:1 to 800:1 though. The Native On/Off was measured anywhere between 3,200:1 and 3,800:1. It actually does contrast as good as many far more expensive projectors (better than some), although it wasn't quite as sharp and it had no IRIS like Runcos do.


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post #38 of 45 Old 08-12-2012, 09:11 PM
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I just switched from a Marantz VP-15S1 to a Runco Q750d. I find the Runco just as bright or brighter than the Marantz - also quieter with a gorgeous picture. I use a Studiotek 130 110 inch wide 1:2.35 screen with Panamorph anamorphic lens.
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post #39 of 45 Old 08-13-2012, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Any ideas on what a fair price would be to ask for my VP15S1? It has a new bulb with only 6 hours.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #40 of 45 Old 08-13-2012, 03:52 PM
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I've watched a few auctions on eBay for this specific projector. Don't expect more than $1500.
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post #41 of 45 Old 08-13-2012, 03:53 PM
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Your not going to like the answer probably...

They have been going for about 2000 Or less on eBay and the gon.
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post #42 of 45 Old 08-13-2012, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not at all surprised. I need to decide on what I want to purchase first; then I will know if i am willing to let it go for that amount. It's all relative.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #43 of 45 Old 09-01-2012, 08:28 PM
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I would consider the SIM2 Crystal 45. The price is within the range you are looking to spend and it will best your Marantz.

I don't recall you saying what size screen/shape you have. You can definitely go bigger with the SIM and you have the option of going to a 2.35:1 with a lens if you want to spend up to your budget.

B.
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post #44 of 45 Old 09-02-2012, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

I would consider the SIM2 Crystal 45. The price is within the range you are looking to spend and it will best your Marantz.
I don't recall you saying what size screen/shape you have. You can definitely go bigger with the SIM and you have the option of going to a 2.35:1 with a lens if you want to spend up to your budget.
B.

Thanks Brian- There doesn't seem to be a lot of information circulating about this projector. Can you qualify your stating "...it will best your Marantz." ? Have you seen both and done a comparison?

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #45 of 45 Old 09-02-2012, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlynch View Post

Thanks Brian- There doesn't seem to be a lot of information circulating about this projector. Can you qualify your stating "...it will best your Marantz." ? Have you seen both and done a comparison?

Yes, I've seen both, but not side by side. I recommend going to a SIM2 dealer and looking at the Crystal 35 or 45.

B.
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