JVC DLA-RS48 / DLA X55 projector with 3D RF glasses and E-shift CEDIA 2012 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RonF View Post

Hey Kraine mentions 240Hz for the clear motion drive. Is that right, was it like that for the RS40, 50, 60 series or it came in with the 2012 models or is that a typo?

Everything from the past couple versions have been 120hz panels so I highly doubt this is anything more than a typo Ron.

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post #272 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think it was you or someone else that recently asked why I don't talk much about the HW30's 3D performance when I was a big fan of it when I first saw it last year. It's all become relative to me now. I started with a 720P 3D DLP projector that had killer 3D for the price and a ghost-free, flicker free image. When I first saw the RS40 in Dec 2010, I thought something was wrong with it. The ghosting and flicker was driving me mad and didn't watch much 3D on the JVC's.
The HW30 was better, less flicker, ghosting was tolerable, but certainly not absent. Then I started with the W7000 and the party was over for the Sony. Non-owners who have never seen it can bash the contrast levels, but there is a reason why Kris Deering and Chris Heinonen called this some of the best 3D they have ever seen. The image is ROCK SOLID. I don't know how else to describe this, but it's like watching 2D, but in 3D mode. There is zero flicker, zero ghosting and the image is razor sharp in 3D. I can watch 3D for 4+ hours and my eyes / brain are happy as can be.
3D DLP performance has become the benchmark for 3D performance in my book. Sure I wish the contrast was as good as the JVC, but the complete lack of ghosting and flicker easily offsets this for me. I don't know what my reaction is going to be when I see the HW50 and upcoming JVC's. I still saw flicker on the 480hz panels on the 5010.
My main interest in the upcoming JVC's is the 2D performance. I love the RS55 2D PQ and none of the projectors last year came close (IMO) to replicating the PQ of the RS55. Cine4home and AreaDVD's comments about major e-shift improvements have me looking forward to the cold month of December. smile.gif

Yeah that was me. You loved the HW30 when you first got it and at that time you even though the HW30's 2D was close enough to the RS40/50 that it was good enough. I'm just glad that I haven't seen 3D on a DLP so that my expectations are lowered as I really prefer not to drop money down on 2 projectors and I know the lacking contrast would drive me nuts. As for the flicker I notice it a lot when I first put on the Xpand 104s but my eyes seem to adjust after than and the flicker isn't as noticeable. I'm over 40 now and I know my eyes aren't as good as they were about 5 years ago as I was one of those guys who used to do PC support and couldn't stand even working on a person's computer when their CRT had a refresh rate of 60Hz as it gave me a headache looking at it within seconds. I only have the RS-45 but the 2D picture is great and presently the HW50 is the one I am looking at to upgrade to and my biggest concern is how much black level am I going to lose if I were to make the switch. AVS has started filling pre-orders so I assume yours is on the way correct? My pre-order is on hold at the moment as I'm awaiting your findings. The RS-46 is next on the list for me but it's pretty much the same projector as the RS45 that I have now but with (hopefully) less ghosting in 3D.
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post #273 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 07:32 PM
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The JVC is great and all, but changing projectors is its own fun. If I could change my PJ out weekly, I would just for the added fun :P


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post #274 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The JVC is great and all, but changing projectors is its own fun. If I could change my PJ out weekly, I would just for the added fun :P

If money weren't an issue I think many of us would be buying weekly projectors as well.
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post #275 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:05 PM
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The worst is buyer's regret, changing to a PJ and then realizing the last one you had was actually better (been there done that).


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post #276 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

If money weren't an issue I think many of us would be buying weekly projectors as well.

This is going to be my first and I'm getting real tight on budget now. Things add up quickly when doing a room. I can easily see how this hobby gets to the extreme
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post #277 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

No offense to Kraine but that was one tough confusing read (I'm sure from the poor translation), but I see he finally stated the CP's used to calibrate with. Is it just me or do they still look woefully undersaturated Geoff? Could the seemingly defective lamp affect this I wonder?
However like you say the fact they would even allow a pre-prod unit from leaving their facility without proper QA testing speaks volumes IMO. Very concerning indeed. rolleyes.gif
Smart Kevin......you picked up on the undersaturated primaries. Every color mode too.....I'm hopeful that will be rectified in the production units but it would not surprise me one way or the other. It might also be that the projector performed nominally at the factory and later failed in the field.

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post #278 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

This is going to be my first and I'm getting real tight on budget now. Things add up quickly when doing a room. I can easily see how this hobby gets to the extreme

Yah, I have undersaturated pennies.


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post #279 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:17 PM
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Yah, I have undersaturated pennies.

I see what you did there. biggrin.gif

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post #280 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The worst is buyer's regret, changing to a PJ and then realizing the last one you had was actually better (been there done that).

I'm doing my best to avoid this as well especially with the potential of changing from a JVC to a Sony. Years ago I was highly anticipating the infinite black level Pioneer plasmas being a black level fiend but when that fell through I moved to front projection. My expectations have since come down to reality as those types of black levels are way off in projector land and months ago I would raise the screen on my manual projector so as not to see the lower 2.35:1 bar but in the last several months I've stopped obsessing over the pickier things. If only projectors could be viewed in stores as easily as TVs so as to give consumers a better idea of what to expect. Oh well, we are in the minority here at AVS.
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This is going to be my first and I'm getting real tight on budget now. Things add up quickly when doing a room. I can easily see how this hobby gets to the extreme

If this is your first projector I don't think you are going to be disappointed in the class of projectors you are looking at. 3D might not be up to expectations on many projectors but you'll likely be surprised how nice of a 2D picture you'll get in this price range. If your budget is too tight I'd look at the RS-46 as well. I upgraded from an RS2 and I was very pleased with that upgrade. The RS2 clone was my first projector.
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post #281 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:44 PM
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I remember seeing the movie Apollo 13 on the Pioneer Plasmas at Best Buy in the old days, that was the first time I really recognized what black levels can do (it was in a semi-dark part of the TV room).


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post #282 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I'm doing my best to avoid this as well especially with the potential of changing from a JVC to a Sony. Years ago I was highly anticipating the infinite black level Pioneer plasmas being a black level fiend but when that fell through I moved to front projection. My expectations have since come down to reality as those types of black levels are way off in projector land and months ago I would raise the screen on my manual projector so as not to see the lower 2.35:1 bar but in the last several months I've stopped obsessing over the pickier things. If only projectors could be viewed in stores as easily as TVs so as to give consumers a better idea of what to expect. Oh well, we are in the minority here at AVS.
If this is your first projector I don't think you are going to be disappointed in the class of projectors you are looking at. 3D might not be up to expectations on many projectors but you'll likely be surprised how nice of a 2D picture you'll get in this price range. If your budget is too tight I'd look at the RS-46 as well. I upgraded from an RS2 and I was very pleased with that upgrade. The RS2 clone was my first projector.

I have a rs46 on preorder. So that will be my first one. I can really care less about 3d it's just a bonus. Mostly used for 2d Movies and gaming
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post #283 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 09:00 PM
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Projectors can't compete with the ANSI contrast that the Pioneer plasmas had. I've since put that image out of my head so as to be content now as no projector comes close. Dark scenes do look better on the JVCs in comparison though as they have an overall lower black level. But on scenes with a some bright areas on the screen the black levels pretty much vanished into the darkness. Maybe some day on a projector but no time in the near future.
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post #284 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 09:02 PM
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Mostly used for 2d Movies and gaming

Hopefully not competitive gaming. cool.gif

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post #285 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 09:36 PM
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Hopefully not competitive gaming. cool.gif

Well everyone competitive and people say these is bad I'm kinda curious to see how bad it will effect me
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post #286 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 09:43 PM
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Well everyone competitive and people say these is bad I'm kinda curious to see how bad it will effect me

I'm far from a hardcore gamer, but do find myself blowing off some steam from work on a late night COD smack down. Lag does make a big difference, especially in FPS games.

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post #287 of 795 Old 10-18-2012, 11:36 PM
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some comments on AV forum regarding a recent demo of the X55 and X95.


"It wasn't all 4 models, just the X55 and X95. The X55 looks like the sweet spot in the range, the e-shift works well and it has the full CMS. I specifically asked for the lantern scene in Tangled as we all know that's a real test of any PJs 3D ability and I'm very happy to report that it was near perfect. Not perfect but not far off. A good, real world improvement on the outgoing generation as far as 3D is concerned. The 3D glasses have bigger lenses too, which is good. I'd prefer them bigger still, but again, it's an improvement, as is the use of RF for syncing"

That is a tough 3D scene.
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post #288 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 12:27 AM
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Yah, much of the Tangled movie is nearly unwatchable on the RS-45 in 3D...


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post #289 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 01:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

Everything from the past couple versions have been 120hz panels so I highly doubt this is anything more than a typo Ron.

Yes you're right, my mistake. It's 120hz, I correct it on the review.

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post #290 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 01:31 AM
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Think the new projector panels speed up for 3D along with a lowering of CR, but they drop back to 120hz for 2D along with the stellar CR

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post #291 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

some comments on AV forum regarding a recent demo of the X55 and X95.
"It wasn't all 4 models, just the X55 and X95. The X55 looks like the sweet spot in the range, the e-shift works well and it has the full CMS. I specifically asked for the lantern scene in Tangled as we all know that's a real test of any PJs 3D ability and I'm very happy to report that it was near perfect. Not perfect but not far off. A good, real world improvement on the outgoing generation as far as 3D is concerned. The 3D glasses have bigger lenses too, which is good. I'd prefer them bigger still, but again, it's an improvement, as is the use of RF for syncing"
That is a tough 3D scene.

Not to be negative here, but as I have mentioned this exact scene was brought up last year as well. Last year it was reported that the lantern scene had NO ghosting on the 45/55/65, now we have gone a step back to near perfect? This comment about Tangled tells us absolutely nothing in light of this from my perspective. Zombie I wait for your comparison as it is the only one of value to me at this point since you can fire up the same scenes from last year to see how much we have improved, or not improved.

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post #292 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

This is going to be my first and I'm getting real tight on budget now. Things add up quickly when doing a room. I can easily see how this hobby gets to the extreme

It is tough to build a room all at one time. That is why many of us build it up slowly over time and upgrade. I certainly would not have the system that I have, if I had to buy it all at one time.

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post #293 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The worst is buyer's regret, changing to a PJ and then realizing the last one you had was actually better (been there done that).
and that is EXACTLY why I decided not to make the change from my RS40 to the HW50 (2D fanboy and not interested in 3D)
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post #294 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Not to be negative here, but as I have mentioned this exact scene was brought up last year as well. Last year it was reported that the lantern scene had NO ghosting on the 45/55/65, now we have gone a step back to near perfect? This comment about Tangled tells us absolutely nothing in light of this from my perspective. Zombie I wait for your comparison as it is the only one of value to me at this point since you can fire up the same scenes from last year to see how much we have improved, or not improved.

I don't remember that. Do you know where you read it? Link?

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post #295 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 07:34 AM
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I don't remember that. Do you know where you read it? Link?

Mike, I will try and track it down when I get home from work or if I have time at lunch. I am betting it was also an AVforum preview since it seems a bit ironic to be hearing about this same exact scene again. I have mentioned in previous posts this season about this scene being brought last year as well before this most recent preview of the new models.

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post #296 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Not to be negative here, but as I have mentioned this exact scene was brought up last year as well. Last year it was reported that the lantern scene had NO ghosting on the 45/55/65, now we have gone a step back to near perfect? This comment about Tangled tells us absolutely nothing in light of this from my perspective. Zombie I wait for your comparison as it is the only one of value to me at this point since you can fire up the same scenes from last year to see how much we have improved, or not improved.

I was mainly interested in AreaDVD's comment on Sammy's adventures. No one would have said this movie looked ok on the current models if they were paying attention. smile.gif

"Next up is a 3D comparison between the 2011 models DLA-X30 and DLA-2012 model X-35 on the program. When software was "Sammy's Adventures" in 3D. The DLA-X30 with the old shutter glasses provides a direct AB comparison less detail, also, especially in the rear image planes is more ghosting seen. Colors appear slightly distorted, and there is indeed reasonable, but noticeable loss of brightness. Use the new glasses and the DLA-X35, is the faithful image detail, sharper and mainly occurs less crosstalk. Color losses are smaller, the image brightness is greater, the detail contrast excellent. Also, the entire image stability is better, also is the new shutter system less susceptible to head movements. At a second Live-example - a film about the earth at the time of the dinosaurs - is also clear that the DLA-X35 produces less visible ghosting and provides more stability in the rear image planes. Despite all the improvements - the crosstalk is completely gone yet, but now reduced to a level that enables a lot more harmonious movie experience. "

I'm looking forward to seeing the RS56 since I already like the e-shift1 on the 55.

"Now we have the DLA-X75R with and without eshift2 viewed in Star Wars Episode III (from the movie begins). Especially in view of the Star Destroyer from the top you can see that even with DVDs eshift2 more sharpness and detail in the picture brings. And this proves even more convincing than the first-generation eShift, as a comparison with the DLA-X70R, which is a coarser and not so delicately textured image ready. By means of clever Dark-/Bright level circuit (here used - Dark level optimization of fine patterns and details in the image), you can more effectively work out fine details. "

I don't recall anyone discussing the extra 3D gamma mode adjustments that are only available in the 55 and 56. We'll have to see what that's all about when they arrive.

"The two top models gamma settings of 2 points were extended to 9 points, wherein the two smaller models it remains at two points (A / B)."

ErweiterungGamma.jpg
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post #297 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 08:06 AM
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Mike, I dont know how to link it from my phone, but post #693 in the JVC DLA-X30/70/90 discussion/owners thread on AVforums mentions the comparison I am talking about. I will find the actual comparison when I get another minute.......need to get to work! tongue.gif

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post #298 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
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FWIW, here is my recollection:
The JVC models before the RS20 generation suffered from bright corners. It was said that one reason for this issue was the lightpath. The RS1s/RS2s had the lamp placed on the side of the unit and a mirror was necessary to bend the light at a right angle so that it could fire down the lightpath into the light engine and out the lens. This mirror caused light scatter and caused bright corners.The RS20/RS25 generation had the lamp mounted at the back of the PJ. It was a straight shoot from the back to the light engine and out the lens. As a result, the bright corners issues was conquered (among other things).
But, there were a lot of complaints about the RS20 design. The lens was off center and that made mounting a little bit more difficult and there were some complaints about how it looked. Inputs were on teh side, not back. Custom installers did not like the design. So, JVC went with form over function and reverted to a side mounted lamp that required the mirror. The bright corners returned in varying degrees.
There are likely other engineering issues involved in these design decisions. It is also likely that I am completely wrong. But, this is how I remember it. For that reason, I always thought that the RS20 design was the best. I have heard some people convincingly argue that the RS35 is the best projector JVC ever made (including current models). If your priority is like mine, good old fashioned picture quality, without things like FI and eshift and with things like a CMS that actually works, it is a pretty good case to make.

I just started reading through this thread and came across this somewhat off-topic discussion that peaked my interest. I have an old HD-350 (RS10) that I bought used. I'm using an even older Prismasonic anamorphic lens with this and while it's not perfect, it looks pretty darn good to me. My question is this...I have read about problems with JVC projectors and Panamorph lenses, specifically the older UH380 and problems with light scatter. After seeing these comments about the lightpath and change in design from the RS1/RS2 to the offset of the RS10/RS20 generation, I'm wondering if the light scatter was only a problem due to the older JVC design? The reason I ask is that I feel that even the older UH380 lens would be an upgrade from my Prismasonic H1400R. I have avoided the older Panamorph due to comments about it not playing well with JVC's. Anyone have knowledge or firsthand experience with these?
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post #299 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 09:47 AM
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I think mbw23air could answer some questions about the panamorph/jvc combo. He uses a UH480 with a RS40.
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post #300 of 795 Old 10-19-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dropzone7 View Post

I just started reading through this thread and came across this somewhat off-topic discussion that peaked my interest. I have an old HD-350 (RS10) that I bought used. I'm using an even older Prismasonic anamorphic lens with this and while it's not perfect, it looks pretty darn good to me. My question is this...I have read about problems with JVC projectors and Panamorph lenses, specifically the older UH380 and problems with light scatter. After seeing these comments about the lightpath and change in design from the RS1/RS2 to the offset of the RS10/RS20 generation, I'm wondering if the light scatter was only a problem due to the older JVC design? The reason I ask is that I feel that even the older UH380 lens would be an upgrade from my Prismasonic H1400R. I have avoided the older Panamorph due to comments about it not playing well with JVC's. Anyone have knowledge or firsthand experience with these?

I haven't tried the UH380 as I did read the reports of the light scatter problem even with the newer JVC models in the 2.35 forum and that why I went with the UH480. Since the models coming out this year still have the same body design I can't see the problem eliminated with them.

Mike

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