JVC DLA-RS48 / DLA X55 projector with 3D RF glasses and E-shift CEDIA 2012 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not a profesionnal photograph they are are not as good of the one from Zombie10K but even with my weakness they are a really good visual example of the sharpness difference between the different type of front projection solution.
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post #362 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:40 PM
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I don't agree. Look how easy it is to see sharpness difference in my photograph. Those line patterns work ONLY if we are viewing them in person, straight lines are distorted by the camera optics, the image needs to be taken FAR closer than you took the image (or take a picture of something else entirely).

You can't just take a pic of 2 straight lines, lol...


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post #363 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Same picture, same screen, same distance, different kind of projectors and even with my bad photograph talents they are a good illustration of what I see at home. So for me they are more then trustable wink.gif
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post #364 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:46 PM
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Straight lines don't tell you the effect on video, especially through a photograph.

Again, look at this post by me: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424180/jvc-dla-rs48-dla-x55-projector-with-3d-rf-glasses-and-e-shift-cedia-2012/330#post_22532223

How easy is it to tell sharpness difference if people did it like that on the eagle (then we can really tell). BTW, my image was OVERLAPPED and taken at the same time (2 projectors shooting on the same screen in one exposure with the images overlapped). Your image was taken in two different shots, that's a poor technique (although I understand you can't have every PJ at the same time, but still need to show something more interpretable).

JVC is sharper than some CHEAP DLP's, but some other cheap DLP's (and expensive ones) are sharper, but the point is the JVC is pretty darn sharp for a three-chip projector.


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post #365 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

SYour image was taken in two different shots, that's a poor technique (although I understand you can't have every PJ at the same time, but still need to show something more interpretable).
JVC is sharper than some CHEAP DLP's, but some other cheap DLP's (and expensive ones) are sharper, but the point is the JVC is pretty darn sharp for a three-chip projector.

Good point coderguy, but how many professionnal reviewers do the same ? And aren' t able to have both models at the same moment ? cool.gif It's the best solution we have found to compare different kind of projectors in a long time and much better than using the visual memory. I'll try to do the best with what I have in hands and after more of 67 projectors reviews, I think that I'm able to see the sharpness difference between a DLP and a D-iLA.

http://www.cinetson.org/phpBB3/projecteurs-f2/recapitulatif-des-tests-projecteurs-worf-t32216.html
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post #366 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

JVC is sharper than some CHEAP DLP's, but some other cheap DLP's (and expensive ones) are sharper, but the point is the JVC is pretty darn sharp for a three-chip projector.

And once again I agree, but with the BenQ 1070 I have found a sharper one on a very small price.
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post #367 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 12:58 PM
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Well you don't necessarily need every projector at the same time, all you have to do is have a baseline reference. For instance, I can now compare ANY projector as long as 1 of those 2 projectors are also included in every future photograph in which I shoot an OVERLAY for sharpness comparisons. I can just overlay 3 projectors in ALL future photos instead of 2 to always include the baseline projector, even when only comparing the sharpness of two projectors. This validates the image because as long as the baseline projector looks the same between all images taken, then the other sharpness images should be valid in reference to each other. Even this method isn't 100% full-proof, but it is about as close as you can get.

My complaint isn't just the techniques reviewers use, it's the images themselves. I mean straight lines aren't very interesting even if it did show a difference.

I like my eagle tongue.gif


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post #368 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 01:10 PM
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It was cancelled yes, before my message.
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post #369 of 795 Old 10-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I discounted that X55 photo right from the get-go. The photo is horrible. Bonds face has no detail. It looks like the photo was overexposed.

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post #370 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 10:19 AM
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A month or so ago I had my w7000 in my system for a few weeks rather than my current RS50 which is very sharp. I kept marvelling at the sharpness of 70 or so great scenic photographs I have saved on a PS3 and playing with the Darblet settings. I got used to it. Then I put the RS50 back in and it was kind of a shock to see it seemed virtually, unscientifically, every bit as sharp as the W7000. With a much finer picture. It may not be but wow it is really close.
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post #371 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy 
Of course high-end DLP's are even a step up sharper over the Benq than the JVC, but it's not that noticeable in actual viewing.

Not sure I completly agree with you here coderguy. But I have had the opertunity to own two of the sharpest dlps ever made. The Marantz VP-11S2 and the Samsung A900B.

Amazing clarity and almost always a true looking out the window effect on any good to great source material.

Just wish they would have been brighter.

But because of that I am still going with a JVC! smile.gif
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post #372 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Not sure I completly agree with you here coderguy. But I have had the opertunity to own two of the sharpest dlps ever made. The Marantz VP-11S2 and the Samsung A900B.

You have a really big screen and I'm guessing your screen/viewing ratio is less than most.
I've never seen those projectors, but I can only speak for my JVC even though I've seen other JVC's (not in my own room).

This might be a way to test how much increasing sharpness helps (for HTPC anyhow), throw some text on the screen, then take a few steps back, does the text appear sharper as you step back?

IME, even a cheaper DLP that is not sharper looks different, so how much of it is sharpness or just the DLP look or processing is hard to say.


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post #373 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 12:34 PM
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Wish I still had one of the Super high end DLPs to use.

The 4 DLPs I owned have been the

Marantz VP-11S2 (.95" Darkchip 4 - screen size at the time 94" diagonal)
Samsung A900B (.95" Darkchip 4 - was the very first projector on the massive 150" wide, but with only 470ish max calibrated lumens it was not bright enough.)
BenQ W6000
BenQ W7000 (owned for only 5 hours or so.)

I'm not sure if it was just significantly better lens on the darkchip 4 machines, or the bigger .95" DLP chips, but the "sharpness" differences were not even in the same category.

The Marantz and Samsung could produce images that just scream "real life".

The BenQ's never make or made me think what on screen is real, just a sharp digital look to me.

If you ever find a used Marantz VP-11S2 or Samsung A900B super cheap, pick one up, they are amazing projectors.
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post #374 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraine View Post

I can see the difference but I'm a DLP addict. smile.gif And coderguy not only high end DLP are sharper than the JVC, but the D-ila still win the contrast war. smile.gif

I know a guy who bought a Sony VW1000 and said, that this device is sharper than a 3-Chip-DLP-High-End DLP for about 80.000€ ... Funny thing, isn't it ?

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post #375 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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Some news from C4H from germany. Ekki from C4H just said, that there is NO PROBLEM with the lamp of the new X55 ! It's a software bug: sometimes the 3D picture is too dark, sometimes not. The X35 doesn't show that bug. Here is the complete posting in german language:
Quote:
Hallo zusammen,

inzwischen haben wir uns mit dem X35/X55 ausführlich beschäftigt und können Licht in die „dunkle 3D Performance“ des X55 beim letzten Shootout bringen:

Wir haben herausgefunden, dass es sich hierbei um einen sporadischen Softwarebug handelt: Wenn man von 2D auf 3D Material wechselt, kann es vorkommen, dass der X55 dieses besonders dunkel projiziert. Man kann aber auch Glück haben und dann schaltet er problemlos ins „helle“ 3D um. Richtig reproduzierbar konnten wir den Fehler nicht provozieren, er scheint aber wahrscheinlicher aufzutreten, wenn man vorher mit der 2D->3D Konvertierung gespielt hat.

Der X35 hat diesen Softwarebug nicht und zeigt daher immer die maximal mögliche 3D Performance. Ohne Bug sind beide übrigens in 3D nahezu identisch.

Es handelt sich also nicht um ein Lampenproblem, sondern nur um eine buggy Vorserien-Firmware. Das erklärt auch die unterschiedlichen Ergebnisse bei den ersten öffentlichen Auftritten des X55, obwohl es sich dabei um ein- und dasselbe Gerät handelte: In Kassel z.B. lief er ohne den sporadisch auftretenden Bug, der dafür aber murphy-mäßig beim letzten Shootout dann zugeschlagen hat.

Also Entwarnung, hat nix mit der Lampe zu tun

Wir haben auch jede Menge Messdaten zum X35 / X55 gesammelt und werden die nun redaktionell aufarbeiten.

Viele Grüße,
Ekki

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post #376 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

Some news from C4H from germany. Ekki from C4H just said, that there is NO PROBLEM with the lamp of the new X55 ! It's a software bug: sometimes the 3D picture is too dark, sometimes not. The X35 doesn't show that bug. Here is the complete posting in german language:
Quote:
Hallo zusammen,

inzwischen haben wir uns mit dem X35/X55 ausführlich beschäftigt und können Licht in die „dunkle 3D Performance“ des X55 beim letzten Shootout bringen:

Wir haben herausgefunden, dass es sich hierbei um einen sporadischen Softwarebug handelt: Wenn man von 2D auf 3D Material wechselt, kann es vorkommen, dass der X55 dieses besonders dunkel projiziert. Man kann aber auch Glück haben und dann schaltet er problemlos ins „helle“ 3D um. Richtig reproduzierbar konnten wir den Fehler nicht provozieren, er scheint aber wahrscheinlicher aufzutreten, wenn man vorher mit der 2D->3D Konvertierung gespielt hat.

Der X35 hat diesen Softwarebug nicht und zeigt daher immer die maximal mögliche 3D Performance. Ohne Bug sind beide übrigens in 3D nahezu identisch.

Es handelt sich also nicht um ein Lampenproblem, sondern nur um eine buggy Vorserien-Firmware. Das erklärt auch die unterschiedlichen Ergebnisse bei den ersten öffentlichen Auftritten des X55, obwohl es sich dabei um ein- und dasselbe Gerät handelte: In Kassel z.B. lief er ohne den sporadisch auftretenden Bug, der dafür aber murphy-mäßig beim letzten Shootout dann zugeschlagen hat.

Also Entwarnung, hat nix mit der Lampe zu tun

Wir haben auch jede Menge Messdaten zum X35 / X55 gesammelt und werden die nun redaktionell aufarbeiten.

Viele Grüße,
Ekki
Which, Google translated reads:
Quote:
Hi all,

now we have dealt with the X35/X55 detail and can light in the "dark 3D performance" bringing the X55 at the last shootout:

We have found that this is a sporadic software bug is: If you switch from 2D to 3D material, it may happen that the X55 this projected especially dark. But you can also get lucky and then it connects easily to the "bright" 3D. Properly reproducible we could not provoke the error, but it seems more likely to occur when you have been playing with the 2D-> 3D conversion.

The X35 has this software bug is not, and therefore shows the maximum possible 3D performance. Without bug in the way the two are nearly identical 3D.

So it is not a bulb problem, but only a buggy pre-production firmware. It also explains the different results in the first public appearances of the X55, although that is acted by one and the same device: In Kassel eg He ran without the intermittent bug that but murphy moderately slammed the last shootout then.

So clear, has nothing to do with the lamp

We have also collected a lot of data to the X35 / X55 and are now coming to terms with editorial.

Best regards,
Ekki

Geof
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post #377 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 07:10 PM
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One more instance where JVC's entry model is better than the higher models. cool.giftongue.gif

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post #378 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

One more instance where JVC's entry model is better than the higher models. cool.giftongue.gif

I'm getting anxious for my r46 now
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post #379 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Are readers honestly going to believe the X55 looks this bad. So the X55 is going to look worse than the X70 when all other opinions so far indicate otherwise?
X55 - shadow detail on the wing is lost, was this calibrated?
e-shift2.jpg
RS55
e-shift1.jpg

Just for kicks and giggles... My shot off a BenQ W6000 and my iPhone 5 camera, no Tri-pod... smile.gif

Uploading now...

1c5f840a5c684a156b2fc47ef46966f4.jpg

Zombie10k I think your Camera is better then a cell camera... smile.gif

One thing I find a little weird in my pic is there was "scrolling green lines" in my shot, I wonder if the camera was picking up on the spinning color wheel...

You can see the green lines in my picture.
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post #380 of 795 Old 10-28-2012, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Just for kicks and giggles... My shot off a BenQ W6000 and my iPhone 5 camera, no Tri-pod... smile.gif
Uploading now...
1c5f840a5c684a156b2fc47ef46966f4.jpg
Zombie10k I think your Camera is better then a cell camera... smile.gif


Compared to the older model iPhones I like my i5 camera as well nice pic
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post #381 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Which, Google translated reads:
Quote:
Hi all,
now we have dealt with the X35/X55 detail and can light in the "dark 3D performance" bringing the X55 at the last shootout:
We have found that this is a sporadic software bug is: If you switch from 2D to 3D material, it may happen that the X55 this projected especially dark. But you can also get lucky and then it connects easily to the "bright" 3D. Properly reproducible we could not provoke the error, but it seems more likely to occur when you have been playing with the 2D-> 3D conversion.
The X35 has this software bug is not, and therefore shows the maximum possible 3D performance. Without bug in the way the two are nearly identical 3D.
So it is not a bulb problem, but only a buggy pre-production firmware. It also explains the different results in the first public appearances of the X55, although that is acted by one and the same device: In Kassel eg He ran without the intermittent bug that but murphy moderately slammed the last shootout then.
So clear, has nothing to do with the lamp
We have also collected a lot of data to the X35 / X55 and are now coming to terms with editorial.
Best regards,
Ekki

I thought the issue with some of the preproduction models were the low brightness in 2D??
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post #382 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

I thought the issue with some of the preproduction models were the low brightness in 2D??

Exactly, the preproduction unit that I had reviewed has low brightness in 2D wink.gif Good point tigerfan33 and apparently they are saying that it was the same unit.
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post #383 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 
I thought the issue with some of the preproduction models were the low brightness in 2D??

I know exactly one guy, who measured too low lumen values in 2D: kraine. That's the same guy who also measured 1704 lumens (calibrated !) with a Sony HW50 and also 400 lumens behind (!!!) the shutter system. Fantastic values, but impossible in reality. Sorry, but I am bored to discuss this values anymore.

I don't think, that the X55 used by Ekki from C4H is the same unit like kraines' device (the device I have seen was in germany the entire october 2012). I have seen that device by myself: there have never been problems with the brightness in 2D, also not with 3D at the home cinema event in Kassel. The 3D problems could be seen first 2 weeks later at a local home cinema dealer in germany. But also there were no problems with the brightness in 2D.

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post #384 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 08:19 AM
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+1

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post #385 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 08:27 AM
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I won't be to hard on anyone, as he may have had a bad sample, but that just means we need more input from other sources to confirm or deny the light output claims. Even still, he still may have had a bad sample.

Although Kraine... If your Bond pic was "calibrated" you need to work on your "calibration" skills, or camera skills... As you can still see the dark details (glasses / under wing) on my super quick cell phone camera pic.

Literally just pointed at screen and took 1 picture.

Hehe...

So I can't defend you there. smile.gif
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post #386 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 08:36 AM
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When you know that you have a wrong model, you don't publish a preview like he did. Unless you want to be the fastest in the world to write a review to say "I am the best, look at me!"
It is not a right attitude, and it is why he has been asked to delete his preview.
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post #387 of 795 Old 10-29-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I won't be to hard on anyone, as he may have had a bad sample, but that just means we need more input from other sources to confirm or deny the light output claims. Even still, he still may have had a bad sample.
Although Kraine... If your Bond pic was "calibrated" you need to work on your "calibration" skills, or camera skills... As you can still see the dark details (glasses / under wing) on my super quick cell phone camera pic.
Literally just pointed at screen and took 1 picture.
Hehe...
So I can't defend you there. smile.gif

Who said that this pic was taken after calibration ? Maybe nutcracker not me (private joke for projofan) . tongue.gif

On my review you have the value after calibration for the brightness, the color accurary. I took the Bond picture only to show the difference between the effect of the RCP from SONY and the E-SHIFT from JVC on the same picture. There is nothing to do with calibration here.

A little reminder :

http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/342-JVC-DLA-X55-5.html
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post #388 of 795 Old 10-30-2012, 10:38 AM
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Can you guys recommend a screen to buy? I'm planning to get the JVC X55r and need to buy the screen but i have no idea which one. I will have a completely light controlled room and the projector will be shooting from 13ft. I can spend up to $800 and i'm looking for a 120" screen, i will mostly be watching 2D.
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post #389 of 795 Old 10-30-2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabrixce View Post

Can you guys recommend a screen to buy? I'm planning to get the JVC X55r and need to buy the screen but i have no idea which one. I will have a completely light controlled room and the projector will be shooting from 13ft. I can spend up to $800 and i'm looking for a 120" screen, i will mostly be watching 2D.

I would get the Carada Brilliant White Screen (1.3 listed gain, ~1.1 real world gain). For a fully light controlled room, the Carada is a great screen. It is very similar to the Stewart Studiotek 130 except cheaper. The price for the precision series of the Carada would be in that $800 ballpark for a 120" screen. Carada also has excellent customer service. I'm gettting a Carada myself when I decide when to get a projector.
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post #390 of 795 Old 10-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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Thank you Sed, that seems like a really nice screen.
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