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post #1 of 17 Old 08-20-2012, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Been happy with my tweaked pan ae700 now for...hmm...since it came out biggrin.gif
Now time to get a full hd i guess...
Any suggestions on what to get?
Looked little at pan7000..and epson 9000..(don't know what it's called there?..)....jvc x30...and the Sony hw30...
Any hints what's the best in that class? smile.gif
Mm..yes! ..btw....I'm an impulsive byer...don't want to speculate too many days biggrin.gif
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-20-2012, 10:33 PM
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Depends if you want 3D or not, depends on primary viewing content, and your screen size and all that jazz.
Unless you need a 2.35 screen, I'd scratch the Panny from the list.

If your main concern is movies and not as much into 3D, I'd lean towards the JVC X30.

If you mainly watch movies but also put a lot of hours on a projector each year (say more than 500, then I would look at the Sony hw30es instead of the JVC).

If your main emphasis is 3D or more of a mix of viewing but still with a lot of 3D watching, then I'd lean towarsd the Epson 5010.

If your concern is only to get the absolute best 3D with still decent looking 2d, then I'd lean towards the Benq w7000 or Acer h9500bd.


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post #3 of 17 Old 08-21-2012, 12:29 AM
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What about the Mitsubishi 7800d? ... that has a better lens than the benq, prob better 2d ... but its not as bright .. ok thats where it falls short
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-21-2012, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!
Will use 16:9 screen..so i'll scratch Panasonic from my list smile.gif
...ok i'll will take a closer look at the jvc,sony and epson..
Do jvc have bad lamps or why you recommended sony if watching more hours/year like 500h?
Cheers!
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-21-2012, 11:02 AM
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I have been looking to add a projector to use for movies and sports. My current Samsung 63" C8000 plasma has a great picture but definitely want the bigger projector experience. I have an old NEC 6PG with perfect CRT's (like 200 hours) but the power supply or something went out and doesn't currently work. Beside when it did it really REQUIRED a near blacked out room. Right now thinking about putting in a tension electric screen to drop in front of the plasma for night viewing. Room is 30' x 16 1/2', dark brown walls so when I watch the plasma at night the walls are not visible, and thinking a 106" 16:9 screen. The screen would be placed in the middle of the 30' wall (no other option based on the room design), and the projector would then be mount on the 16' wall with most likely a 13'-13 1/2' throw range. I have read a LOT on these forums and still haven't made my decision.

What I have been considering
Epson 8700UB (refurb) baseline
JVC RS40 (refurb) +$200
JVC RS25 (new) +400
JVC RS45 (refurb) +650
JVC RS45 (new) +1000
Epson 5010 (new) +1000

Originally I was interested in the Epson 5010 because of the light output for sports, but after reading all the the reviews on projectorreviews I am really more interested in light output for "best mode". This is because how else would you want to watch a movie? I want great black level, which draws me to the JVC models, and the fact that they are easily brighter in "best mode" than even the Epson 5010 light cannon.

Please help me out here with viewing sports. Since the average picture level when watching sports is normally much brighter, how much does "best mode" matter for that? I saw the video that Art F on projectorreviews did for the 8700UB (with dynamic mode) in a somewhat lighted room, and the sports looked fine. Would the light output of an RS25 be acceptable using its dynamic mode (853) with some ambient light from 13' or so? I haven't had the chance to preview any projectors displaying sports in a lighted room in person so I am looking for some input. Since the picture level is typically higher I wouldn't think that the black level comes into play as much.

If it wasn't for the fact that the newer JVC models seem to exhibit an issue with the bulb it would be a no brainer for me to go with them, but not going to lie, the whole issue makes me nervous. And that is what leads me looking at the Epson 8700UB and the RS25. I received a refurb replacement for a Toshiba widescreen projection TV I bought back in the mid 90's and never had an issues with that, so I don't really worry too much about refurb vs new since the warranty comes with it. Only a "lemon" would be a problem I guess.

Any input would be appreciated, but right now it's a toss up between the 8700UB, RS25, and RS40/45.

Thanks,

Mike
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-21-2012, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks guys!...i've decided to try the epson tw9000 (5010?) seems to be about right for me.. smile.gif
cheers!/h
now....find a screen to go with that... :P
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-21-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post

I have been looking to add a projector to use for movies and sports.

Get the Epson 5010 or Benq w7000...
As far as the brightest best mode, that one goes to the Benq w7000, not the JVC.

Even though the JVC has a bright best mode, my bets are that the JVC lamp loses brightness MUCH faster than the Epson or Benq. Best modes aren't that important for Sports, really they matter almost none at all, because you rarely are even looking at peoples faces, you are just seeing generic helmet colors and jerseys and grass. Faces are where you mostly notice problems in calibration, it is visible in other aspects of the picture as well, but more so on objects once you start getting pretty far off.

Anyhow, the Epson 5010's Dynamic Mode doesn't have much color tint, so it won't matter, and it can do 1500 lumens. The other PJ to look at might be the Benq w7000, but the blacks aren't as good as the Epson. If I were choosing between the Benq and the Epson, I'd be kind of torn either way. I actually prefer DLP over LCD for many things, but for movies with dark scenes in them, the Epson will win. The Benq wins at most other things, and it's still just about as bright.

If you are more concerned with Sports and TV over Movies with dark scenes, the Benq w7000 is the better choice IMHO.


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post #8 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Even though the JVC has a bright best mode, my bets are that the JVC lamp loses brightness MUCH faster than the Epson or Benq.

True, but I could mitigate this by opening the JVCs' manual iris, right? I'm looking very hard at JVC right now, but I'm waiting for CEDIA before I do anything.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Get the Epson 5010 or Benq w7000...
As far as the brightest best mode, that one goes to the Benq w7000, not the JVC.
Even though the JVC has a bright best mode, my bets are that the JVC lamp loses brightness MUCH faster than the Epson or Benq. Best modes aren't that important for Sports, really they matter almost none at all, because you rarely are even looking at peoples faces, you are just seeing generic helmet colors and jerseys and grass. Faces are where you mostly notice problems in calibration, it is visible in other aspects of the picture as well, but more so on objects once you start getting pretty far off.
Anyhow, the Epson 5010's Dynamic Mode doesn't have much color tint, so it won't matter, and it can do 1500 lumens. The other PJ to look at might be the Benq w7000, but the blacks aren't as good as the Epson. If I were choosing between the Benq and the Epson, I'd be kind of torn either way. I actually prefer DLP over LCD for many things, but for movies with dark scenes in them, the Epson will win. The Benq wins at most other things, and it's still just about as bright.
If you are more concerned with Sports and TV over Movies with dark scenes, the Benq w7000 is the better choice IMHO.

Keep in mind the customer is coming from a CRT and he said: "I want great black level" With that in mind, I doubt that he will be very happy with a W7000. With a 1.0 gain 106" screen I would be concerned with a W7000 being too bright for movie watching. 1,000 lumens is about the lowest you can get that projector down too (per Art) and that provides you with too bright an image (31 Foot Lamberts) for movie watching. Coming from a CRT, I would have to give the nod to the JVC because of its higher native contrast. The JVC can get close to 29 Foot Lamberts in high lamp mode and 14 Foot Lamberts in low lamp mode with the iris closed all the way down. So that means you can select anywhere from 14 FL to 29 FL for your light output. Can't do that with any of the others.

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post #10 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Keep in mind the customer is coming from a CRT and he said: "I want great black level" With that in mind, I doubt that he will be very happy with a W7000. With a 1.0 gain 106" screen I would be concerned with a W7000 being too bright for movie watching. 1,000 lumens is about the lowest you can get that projector down too (per Art) and that provides you with too bright an image (31 Foot Lamberts) for movie watching. Coming from a CRT, I would have to give the nod to the JVC because of its higher native contrast. The JVC can get close to 29 Foot Lamberts in high lamp mode and 14 Foot Lamberts in low lamp mode with the iris closed all the way down. So that means you can select anywhere from 14 FL to 29 FL for your light output. Can't do that with any of the others.

Interesting - how would you evaluate the X30 or Epson 5010 - in regards to being too bright - on a 92" 1.3 gain white screen?
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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Although I agree about the black level issue coming from a CRT, I am not sure I'd choose a JVC for the primary viewing of Sports.

Too bright is rarely a big problem, but it can be. If you gave me two choices, one projector that was way too bright at first that I can buy an ND filter for $50 to use for only the first 500-1000 hours, then I'll take the too bright projector every time and just wait for the lamp to wear in. I am a heavy projector user though, and I have put up with images WAY too bright for the first 500 hours, we're talking blindingly without even using an ND filter (and I should have used the ND filter). It wasn't comfortable, but I was able to deal with it.

The Benq's IRIS is adjustable in the service menu and you can change the Min/Max position to work like a static aperture, it doesn't increase native on/off though like it does on the JVC. That said, it seems people are having trouble saving the Service Menu settings on that projector, but if they can save it, you should be able to drop the lumens to 500 to 700 or so. Also, you can use a darker gamma and contrast settings to perceptibly curve some of the brightness problem, it will still look way too bright above 80 IRE, but it will be more bareable for average shows. It will cause some blending and crush to do this, but it does work as a temporary solution.

I like too bright, because it usually only lasts 100-300 hours then we get that 15%+ drop-off or more.


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post #12 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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the "too" bright situation i also have been thinking about...if one have a projector..lets say 5000lumens....(fantasy number)
isn't it just drop contrast level on proj....like we do on todays tv's?...and then of course calibrate...?
or is it different with projectors?...
cheers!/H
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 02:35 PM
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Changing the contrast controls too much does mess up the calibration, and only provides some benefit to a lower perceivable brightness. Using a darker gamma and min. contrast settings and brightness settings, you can do it but there are side effects. Still at some point it's a hopeless cause and you'll need the ND filter. The gamma + contrast solution usually only gives you a 25% to 50% perceivable assistance. So you can probably make 20 fL to 25 fL bareable (maybe up to 30 fL on some), but after that on most projectors it's hopeless and you'll be watching it blindingly bright. The image will be a bit washed out compared to a best mode though, but it's ok temporarily usually.

That said, just buy an ND filter.
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Changing the contrast controls too much does mess up the calibration, and only provides some benefit to a lower perceivable brightness. Using a darker gamma and min. contrast settings and brightness settings, you can do it but there are side effects. Still at some point it's a hopeless cause and you'll need the ND filter. The gamma + contrast solution usually only gives you a 25% to 50% perceivable assistance. So you can probably make 20 fL to 25 fL bareable (maybe up to 30 fL on some), but after that on most projectors it's hopeless and you'll be watching it blindingly bright. The image will be a bit washed out compared to a best mode though, but it's ok temporarily usually.
That said, just buy an ND filter.


What size filter for the Epson 5010????
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 05:49 PM
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It depends on the room, the mounting position of the projector, how you calibrate it, so setup the projector first, and then determine if it's too bright to bother you or not.
You might just wait 50 hours or so to see if it DIMS enough to no longer bother you, then decide if you still want the ND filter.

If you want to buy one now for your screen size, I'd say get one that drops the light output by about 35%, which is a 3/4 f-stop. You can always remove it later.
I do not know the lens measurements of the Epson lens, so you'll have to look that one up.


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post #16 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

Interesting - how would you evaluate the X30 or Epson 5010 - in regards to being too bright - on a 92" 1.3 gain white screen?

With a 1.3 gain screen the X30 would be a little bright in a light controlled room with the iris closed all the way down. It would probably be around 18/19 Foot Lamberts, depending on mounting location. The Epson could be about the same in low lamp, but only if you set the iris to manual and then you lose your black levels. A little brightness is not a bad thing, but 1,000 lumens onto a 106" 1.0 gain screen is 31 Foot Lamberts, that is very bright.

Coder guy is a readily admitted brightness freak. Nothing wrong with that. That is just what he prefers. That is why he uses a 106" High Power screen. I also use a 106" High Power screen in one of my rooms, but I am using it with low lamp on a Marantz projector that probably only puts out 250 lumens. smile.gif

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post #17 of 17 Old 08-22-2012, 09:23 PM
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I just hate buying new lamps, but yes I do prefer it at 14 fL as the absolute minimum, whereas some people don't mind 10 fL. My problem below 14 fL is the bright scenes lose that punch factor. The thing about it is, with an ND filter at first, you can set things up way too bright.

So here is my logic:
The first 500 hours is where you lose most of the lamp's brightness (well in relativness anyhow). If you can hit the target fL at 500+ to 1000+ hours in low lamp, then that is better despite conventional wisdom that might say we need to shoot for 14 fL right away in the first range of hours. I don't push this religion on others, I just say that it's possible to do. If I don't hit my target fL even until 1000 hours, well then at least that means I will be absolutely maximizing lamp life (or close to it).


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