Thinking of a Runco Q-750i - Looking for advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 88 Old 08-28-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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First time getting into a media room / projector set up. I was thinking about either the JVC X70 or the Sony 95ES. Then today I was talking to a dealer who said he is selling off his Runco Q750i since the new model is about to come out. The dealer said the projector was rarely used - under 100 hours since he just uses it for demos during private appointments. I have an appointment later this week.

Without getting into specifics about pricing, before any negotiating, my quoted price for the JVC is $1,000 more than the Sony, and the quoted price for the Runco is $1,000 more than the JVC.

I don't know how much these Runco models get discounted before new ones come out, but does this sound like a good price cut on the Runco?

Also, even if that model has actually been running way more than indicated, do these LED products deteriorate much? From what I have read today, since there is no bulb, you just enjoy the product for years with very little deterioration in brightness and quality.

I know that ultimately much depends on what I want to use it for. I know the Runco doesn't do 3D. While 3D would be fun to watch sometimes, I doubt I would watch much 3D even if I buy a model that can show 3D. I plan on using the room for all types of viewing. It will be mainly sports and movies, but also regular TV watching. It won't be used for games.

Even though the product is a demo (unclear how much wear and tear) can't do 3D, and is an older model than either the Sony or JVC, do you think its still worth more money than either of those products? None of the dealers I have been to have any combination of these models, so I haven't been able to see them side by side, so its hard to made a good comparison. Also, when viewing in different stores, lighting, quality of the screen etc. make it even harder to compare what looks best to me.

Thanks for your comments.
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post #2 of 88 Old 08-28-2012, 10:45 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1365980/benefits-of-led-projectors
Check out the above thread. I really like the image the 750 puts out. You don't have to wait for the projector to warm up, or worry about leaving it on overnight.Having said that I think it would be to dim for your application (a high gain screen would offset this a bit).
If you are not in to big of a hurry, some new units are just being announced at the trade shows this week.
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post #3 of 88 Old 08-30-2012, 08:42 PM
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Send me you email I have a great review of the Runco and SIM2 LEDs.

I also have owned a Q-750 for more than a year and there is NO loss of light and I have a lot more than 100 hours on mine. Other than the size and weight, which some think is too much, it is a great machine.

David

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra
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post #4 of 88 Old 09-04-2012, 03:20 PM
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I certainly agree with the above replies as I've owned a Runco Q-750D - exactly like the Q-750i but with a separate input control box - for almost one year now and it has worked flawlessly an average of 10~12 hours per day, even during Summer months when i like to keep room temperature at 80 degrees; I occasionally check the exhaust fan temperature with my hands and every time is hard to tell the difference in temperature between the input fan and the exhaust fan, that's how cool these huge LED projectors run.
Those LED colors are something to behold : even after years of watching LED pjs often times i still find myself mesmerized by their purity and depth (and i do mean every single color of the spectrum) and contrary to video purists i watch my Runco LED pj in its native color as oversaturated as it may be, as i find that it does not impart any "sunburn" look to people's skin, foliage shows deep and varied shades of green, blue skies don't appear oversaturated, etc. I imagine that has to do with the fact that even though its measured color "points" are rather oversaturated they do so by almost the same exact amount AND location on the CIE color chart for all three R/G/B primaries.
Black level and shadow detail are excellent; I've never seen a JVC LCOS pj in person, which i imagine has killer ON/OFF contrast ratio, but keep in mind that when it comes to ANSI contrast ratio these LED pjs are unbeatable according to test reports, with Projector Central measuring the highest ANSI contrast ratio ever measured for a pj at over 800:1.
In my particular case, when it came time to get a new projector, it HAD to be a LED pj because of the way i watch TV for hours every day and i did not want to have worries concerning lamp usage/burnout/pricing, internal lamp explosion, high temperature, heat affecting other internal components after hours of constant usage, LCD / LCOS micro display failure due to internal heat, color change and drop in brightness over the lifetime of the lamp, etc.
Also keep in mind that these LED pjs should be used with screens no larger than 100"~106" diagonal to achieve a recommended onscreen brightness of 18 ft-L (on a 1.3 gain screen) as well as very low black level of 0.002 ft-L; For comparison's sake, black levels for JVC LCOS and Sony SXRD have been measured from 0.001 ft-L to as low as 0.0005 ft-L, which would technically indicate black levels twice to four times lower than 0.002 ft-L.
The only "problems" i have with my Runco Q-750D are its size and weight (full metal enclosure), but as a reviewer pointed out, after a nuclear exchange the only two things left on Earth would be cockroaches and Runco projectors...Ha !...
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post #5 of 88 Old 09-04-2012, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your comments everyone. I saw the Runco last week and it was clearly the best picture. Maybe it was set up better than the others I have looked at, but it looked terrific. I have read a few more reviews and the biggest negative I have read is the $15K suggested retail price may not be the best "value". Since I have been offered this projector for not too much more than the new jvc and sony, I think the 750 is my best choice. Since the 750 has been in the market about 2 years, a good sized price cut seems reasonable. I will see what comes out of CEDIA this week, but if it doesn't look like I can get anything as good or better in the price range in the next little while, I think I'll get the 750.

Owners seem very happy with their decision. The lack of brightness deterioration is a big selling feature. Even though it appears other projectors start out brighter, it seems that once a bulb has been used for a few hundred hours, the brightness will drop close to the Runco. I was originally thinking of getting a 110 inch screen, but it sounds like I should cut that down by about 5 or 10 inches.

Another thing I have considered is the relative newness of the technology, but it doesn't seem like there are many bugs to work out, and I haven't read about any real problems. I don't think the size should be a problem as long as it does not interfere with the screen if ceiling mounted in front of my chairs. I guess I can always put it behind the chairs if I need to. I have read that the 750 isn't especially quiet, but I doubt its any real concern.
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post #6 of 88 Old 09-04-2012, 08:38 PM
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irjs >>> I forgot to mention that you shouldn't be too concerned about buying a "demo" Runco LED pj; Mine was also a demo unit and i figured that even if the projector had been used for hundreds of hours it would still be OK by me because it uses LEDs for illumination, thus avoiding loss of brightness and color change due to lamp aging as well as no internal heat damage to circuit boards. Also keep in mind that Luminus Devices sells the R/G/B LED chipset to anyone for only $230 or so, and from internal pictures i have seen for the projector it seems pretty easy to simply unscrew the installed LED chipset and re-install a new one, IF such procedure ever has to be performed considering that the estimated lifespan of these chipsets is very conservatively estimated by some manufacturers at 20.000 hours minimum and more accurately at 50.000 hours of use by Luminus Devices.
As for screen size, it should be fine with a 110 inch diagonal screen as long as it is higher than unit gain. Perhaps the highly rated Da-Lite HIgh Power 2.4 gain screen ? Check out the screen review at www.hometheater.com.
Fan noise, what fan noise ? On my Runco LED pj all i hear is a very low tone "woosh" sound that is hardly noticeable and as far as "rainbows" are concerned (and i can easily see them) i was very occasionally bothered by them when i used my portable LG LED presentation pj, but with the Runco LED pj the only way i can see them is if i turn my head left/right as fast as i can while watching the screen, truly an exercise in futility...
Perhaps you should try to bargain down the price of the Runco to the same price as the JVC by informing the dealer that you are strongly considering the JVC because of its lower price and the fact that it's brand new and offers top-of -the-line technology ? Remember you got the cash, the economy for selling expensive A/V gear is not exactly booming right now and dealers are eager to make deals to get rid of last year's equipment to make room for new stuff.
BTW, there are quite a few professional reviews available online for the Runco Q-750i and its clones, the Digital Projection M-Vision Cine LED and the Vivitek H9080FD; As for the lower-cost Runco Q-650i introduced last year with a msrp of $10,000.00, according to the test report at Home Theater Magazine it did not exhibit the same low black level of 0.002 ft-L but a somewhat higher level of 0.0049 ft-L, perhaps because it uses a lower cost DMD chip ???
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post #7 of 88 Old 09-05-2012, 02:01 AM
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Hi MCaugusto .... haven't heard from you in a while, hope your doing well.

How is your new projector doing ?

Maybe one day I would win the lottery and buy a RUNCO.

I sent you a notice for advise on buying a projector, hope you can read it soon....
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post #8 of 88 Old 09-05-2012, 02:44 PM
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I expect there will be deals coming during CEDIA on these LEDs. Be a good time to hook up with your local DPI or Runco dealer. I've got requests in from several of my customers. We sell demo or B stock DPI LEDs, never had any issues with them FWIW. Very nice unit for the right size screen. The DPI's are a little boxy, but we are able to get more demo units that come out of shows and from reps than Runco's. Same light engine

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post #9 of 88 Old 09-05-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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MCaugusto, thanks for your comments. Since I will need to buy a few things to get my home theater all set up, the dealer should be able to cut his profit margins on individual items and still make a few bucks on me. Like you say, cash is king these days. The Q750 for the same as the advertised price of the JVC-X70 would make it look even better. Good to hear your demo is working out well. For me, if it lasts 10 years that will be more than enough. With the way technology changes, in 10 years the standard might be 8K instead of 1080p, with a robotic arm that can get you a beer from the fridge.

Good to hear that your fan is quiet. During the demo there was a noticeable hum in the room, but the dealer said it was his air conditioner. It didn't seem to be coming from the pj, so I am sure its not a problem.

From what I have heard, I should try to keep the gain somewhere between 1.0 and 1.3. Anything between 100 and 110 inches should look just fine. If I go 110 inches a 1.3 might be best. Under 110 I can likely do a little lower. Thanks for the link, I will read it in a minute.
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post #10 of 88 Old 09-11-2012, 05:14 PM
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FYI the dealerprice was $5K.
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post #11 of 88 Old 09-11-2012, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad I waited until CEDIA was over. My dealer called me to let me know about the new Runco x-200i. The price of the q750 is even lower now. 2 questions.

1. Apart from what Runco says on their website about the x-200 does anyone have some info on it? I have read its very bright and 3d, but what about the picture quality? I'm wondering if it would be a good upgrade from the 750?

2. General question about sports viewing, which I will be doing quite a bit. I have read that projectors with CFI to smooth the motion are a good thing to have for watching sports. This sony vw95 is something I keep thinking of, primarily for how cfi is supposed to improve sports. The Runcos I have watched sports on had a jerky look them. I mentioned this jerky look to the person I am thinking of doing business with (he doesn't have the projector hooked up to a TV source), and he said that he has never had a complaint about sports from his customers, and perhaps the projectors were not set up right for TV viewing. Does that make sense? Even without CFI, are Runco's at least as good as the sony vw95 for sports?
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post #12 of 88 Old 09-11-2012, 09:50 PM
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Yes, I actually saw the X200i at CEDIA but only with a 3D demo. It was reasonably bright and the 3D was very smooth and created a nice feeling of depth. I hate to say this but it looked a lot like other 0.95" single chip DLP models I have seen, maybe slightly more refined and with well implemented 3D. I certainly didn't feel too bad going home to my IN83. I could be wrong here but they made no mention of it being an LED model and it didn't have the intense color saturation of the other LED models I saw, although that could have been a result of the 3D setup. The 3D was very well implemented but after seeing the colour in 2D on the Sim2 M150 I was smitten. Its a shame I didn't get to see 3D on the M150 or 2D on the X200i. Considering it was demoed in a completely light controlled demo theater, it didn't blow me away. Especially considering the size of the thing and the price.

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post #13 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 06:01 AM
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The Runco X200i does not use LEDs for panel illumination; It uses standard UHP bulbs whereas the Runco Q-750 line employs the R/G/B LEDs PT-120 chipset from Luminus Devices that offers that same intense color saturation.
Concerning that "jerky look" displayed by the Runco Q-750i because it lacks frame interpolation, i do not watch any sports broadcasts but i do notice that sometimes, depending on type of content, some action scenes move so fast when i am watching my Runco Q-750D that my eyes are incapable of following the action onscreen, especially with recent blockbuster action movies; There were quite a few scenes during "Transformers 3 " that moved at such incredible speed onscreen that my eyesight could not follow them, try as i might. The projector didn't have any problems displaying those extremely fast-paced scenes, the problem was with my eyesight's ability to maintain track of them and i wonder if a small amount of frame interpolation could help in such situations, as irjs mentioned above ? I will try to watch some sport broadcast to see if i notice the same effect, which should he most visible with broadcasts of basketball, baseball, or football ?
donaldk >>> Any more info about the Runco Q-750i that you could share with us ? I am still curious if the Q-750i and its Vivitek / Digital Projection clones use the 0.95" DMD4 "Dark Chip" from Texas Instruments. I imagine it does considering its price, but why Runco persists on calling it "SuperOnyx DMD" chip ?
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post #14 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 11:27 AM
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No, but when it was first launched, an acquaintance was offered, at ISE, 5K and 7k for the one with the scaler, as dealer price.
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post #15 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

FYI the dealerprice was .
It's the wild west here now. Used to not be able to quote street prices. No we are posting dealer cost?? rolleyes.gif If that's OK, I'll beat anyone's price on one LOL.
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post #16 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 01:12 PM
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It was discussed here before, not deleted then, so why now, when the product is being discontinued.
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post #17 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

No, but when it was first launched, an acquaintance was offered, at ISE, 5K and 7k for the one with the scaler, as dealer price.

Well, since dealer cost has already been mentioned in this thread and continues being discussed, i guess it's okay for me to brag about the fact that i paid much less than the above quoted price for my Runco Q750D, the one with the external controller box/scaler.
Yeah, i paid less than 1/3 the dealer invoice cost for a top-of-the-line LED projector from Runco; He explained to me that his company was dropping its Runco dealership and wanted to get rid of a projector that had been set up in the store as demo unit for interested customers only and thus hardly used. He also explicitly asked me not to divulge his sale price to Runco, as he could get in trouble with the company for selling it below dealer cost.
I am just pointing out that as far as store demo digital projectors are concerned, even LED pjs, bargains are out there to be found, and it doesn't hurt trying to bargain down pricing even further when you're holding the cash in this economy.
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post #18 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 05:37 PM
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I've seen the Q750i. It was nice. But, if I compare it to my panny 7000, I only noticed about 15% better with better color and deep blacks.

For the price difference, I didn't think it was worth it.

But if you have money to burn, and you want to do it right, buy the 750. Your poor friends will love you and visit frequently.
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post #19 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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This weekend I hope to have time to look at a couple of projectors and just watch some HD TV. The biggest appeal to me of getting a projector in the first place was watching hockey, basketball and football on a 110 inch screen. If the experience is not going to be much better than my 60 inch kuro plasma, not much sense in getting a projector regardless of the price of the projector. Since I am starting with only a good sound system, its a lot of money to get a pj, screen, new receiver if I buy a 3D pj, chairs, and build a room. Since the cost of the projector will be notably less than the cost of everything else I'll need to do, I want to make sure I get a projector I am going to be very happy with, even if I have to spend a few extra dollars. However, if I can get something I love for less money then of course so much the better.

All the pj's I have seen look great with a blu-ray, but I want to go with a pj that will do a good job with HD TV. The thought of watching a good game on a 110 inch screen with a cold beer is too much to resist.
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post #20 of 88 Old 09-12-2012, 07:05 PM
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I have the DPI M VISION 260 LED. with an ISCO III lens and Cine Slide from GetGray (outstanding work Scott).

No problems with sports or movies.

I think it was CEDIA 2010 that Runco had a private dealer only release meeting. The price of admittance (dealer cost) was very aggressive.

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post #21 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 05:18 AM
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The Runco Q-750i, the Digital Projection M-Vision Cine LED and the Vivitek H9080FD are essentially clones, the Runco Q-750D has the same innards but its inputs and video processing are placed in an external control box...
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post #22 of 88 Old 09-14-2012, 04:52 PM
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That's what he said just in a different way.

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post #23 of 88 Old 09-26-2012, 04:03 AM
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So I'd imagine a q750o for $8K would be too much?
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post #24 of 88 Old 09-26-2012, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grewper1 View Post

So I'd imagine a q750o for $8K would be too much?
Hardly. The "dealer price" quoted above is not correct. Nor is the unit discontinued AFAIK.
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post #25 of 88 Old 09-26-2012, 10:45 AM
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Anyone know if there is a replacement unit planned for the q750i?
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post #26 of 88 Old 09-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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According to my Runco rep, not at this time. I believe they have been looking a the higher lumen output units like DPI and Sim2 have. The DPI higher lumen LED is an OEM from Projection Design and as such I'm not sure if it has the same light engine as Sim2, or if it's a souped up Delta. As far as I know the only 2 light sources are the ones from Chi Lin, and Phatlight. If they do release a brighter one like those, you can count on it having similar price as the DPI and Sim2 units.
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post #27 of 88 Old 10-04-2012, 09:46 PM
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I am thinking of a Runco 750i or Sony VPL-VW1000ES. Price aside, which has a better picture in 2D? My screen is 110" diag 1.3 dalite. My room is flat black and Kodak 18% Neutral Grey with no windows.

I have seen the Sony and I am impressed. I currently had an old Runco 1000cxi 720P and was still impressed with it considering it was 10 years old.

As anyone seen these two projectors side by side?

Again, please consider the price difference not to be an issue.

Also thinking of getting a d-box chair. Thoughts from current owners are welcome.

McIntosh MX-151; (3) McIntosh 601, Sony VPL1000ES, (2) Furman IT 20i, equi-Tech, Surge-X; Dunlavy SC-IV; McIntosh speakers; (8) full class A amps, floating walls, bass traps, flat traps, Helmhotz traps, slat traps, poly cylinders, quadratic diffusers, skyline diffusers, Polly cylinders, abffusers
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post #28 of 88 Old 10-04-2012, 09:46 PM
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BTW, I have not seen the Runco 750i

McIntosh MX-151; (3) McIntosh 601, Sony VPL1000ES, (2) Furman IT 20i, equi-Tech, Surge-X; Dunlavy SC-IV; McIntosh speakers; (8) full class A amps, floating walls, bass traps, flat traps, Helmhotz traps, slat traps, poly cylinders, quadratic diffusers, skyline diffusers, Polly cylinders, abffusers
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post #29 of 88 Old 10-05-2012, 06:54 AM
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I would say that in your situation of price differential between projectors not being an issue, the only reason i see for you to get a Runco LED pj versus a Sony 4K pj would have to be the usage associated with the pj : are you a heavy user keeping your pj running for hours every day, like a regular TV ?
That was certainly the main reason i got my Runco Q-750D (besides an incredible sale price) and i haven't regretted one minute of it ever since and, of course, if you google "Runco Q-750i" you'll get links to several professional reviews of that pj and its clones...
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post #30 of 88 Old 10-05-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtremehometheatr View Post

I am thinking of a Runco 750i or Sony VPL-VW1000ES. Price aside, which has a better picture in 2D? My screen is 110" diag 1.3 dalite. My room is flat black and Kodak 18% Neutral Grey with no windows.
I have seen the Sony and I am impressed. I currently had an old Runco 1000cxi 720P and was still impressed with it considering it was 10 years old.
As anyone seen these two projectors side by side?
Again, please consider the price difference not to be an issue.
Also thinking of getting a d-box chair. Thoughts from current owners are welcome.

For that size screen the Runco 750i will do fine...................I've seen the projector, and it was excellent.

Keep in mind, LED projection will be short lived.....................and from what I've heard from those in the know concerning LED TV's, the bulbs are being pushed and have shown considerable dimming over time. Don't know if this is true about led projectors, but makes sense that the same holds true too.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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