NEW EPSON HOME CINEMA 3020, 5020 and 6020 AVAILABLE IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER 2012 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 782 Old 11-14-2012, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movieaddict View Post

Does anyone know if any RF glasses will work on the 5020? My girlfriends kid is only 3 and epsons glasses are way to big for him. Also a little pricey for a 3 yr old in my opinion to be playing with so I need to get him some cheaper and hopefully more durable kids 3d glasses. I've found some off eBay that use Bluetooth for 37$ or so with shipping but don't want to buy them if they won't work. Any help is greatly appreciated as I've held the glasses for him and he is hooked on wanting to watch tangled 3d now lol

Not poking into your parenting but I believe it is suggested that children that young should not use 3D as they are still developing. This is not my opinion, just read it in several different places so I have no personal experience with it being accurate. wink.gif

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post #362 of 782 Old 11-14-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Not poking into your parenting but I believe it is suggested that children that young should not use 3D as they are still developing. This is not my opinion, just read it in several different places so I have no personal experience with it being accurate. wink.gif
Jason


Defiantly an understandable concern but from what I've already read children by the age of two have already developed binocular vision and 3d has no harmfull effects. I've only read any negative thoughts on it from forums really and even then not that much. And i only take that with Grain of salt (no offence intended btw). I'm defiantly a very health conscious person to if I felt it was not a good idea or I hear from a doctor or some other professional source I'm wrong I won't let him watch 3d. Hell I probably wouldn't even watch it around him so he would know about it if I heard it was bad for him. But hey I still might be wrong ill research it some more just to make sure.
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post #363 of 782 Old 11-14-2012, 09:31 PM
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I am curious - Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of 5010 with 5020? I do know that about contrast ratio is higher in 5020, but is the difference large enough to be actually perceptible in practical environment?
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post #364 of 782 Old 11-15-2012, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xplorar View Post

I am curious - Has anyone done a side-by-side comparison of 5010 with 5020? I do know that about contrast ratio is higher in 5020, but is the difference large enough to be actually perceptible in practical environment?

I have the same question. The 5010 is cheaper right now, while still available. I know what is different about the 5020, I just wonder if the 5020 is worth the $400 more. Right now ProjectorPeople has the 5020 for $2600 and the 5010 for $2200.

Aren't glasses cheaper for the 5010?

Opinions?

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post #365 of 782 Old 11-15-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyJonesBSME View Post

I have the same question. The 5010 is cheaper right now, while still available. I know what is different about the 5020, I just wonder if the 5020 is worth the $400 more. Right now ProjectorPeople has the 5020 for $2600 and the 5010 for $2200.
Aren't glasses cheaper for the 5010?
Opinions?

This may or not be helpful to answering your question.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/summary.php
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post #366 of 782 Old 11-15-2012, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

This may or not be helpful to answering your question.
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/summary.php

That did help. It's going to be the 5020 for me.

Thanks

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post #367 of 782 Old 11-15-2012, 07:19 AM
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I've owned both...go 5020 for sure if you can afford it!
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post #368 of 782 Old 11-15-2012, 06:09 PM
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Does 5020 allows any panel convergence alignment?
Can't find it in the user manual confused.gif

Thanks.
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post #369 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 07:22 AM
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Yes it does..but it changes the color on the screen where you use it, it does not work correctly.
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post #370 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 08:10 AM
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I purchased the 5020 last week from AVS and it is a great projector right out of the box! During the week I started playing around with some of the different settings and by the end of the week I reset all of my settings back to factory new. The only change I made was to lower the 3D brightness 1 notch below the maximum setting as recommended by Zombie10k. I get a great picture!!!!!!!!!!!!

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post #371 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 04:59 PM
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Epson 6020 arive and are ready for sale on the 27th
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post #372 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 05:58 PM
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was wrong about the CFI, they never implemented it in 3D, although I had been expecting it to be, at least for 1080p/30.

-art

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post #373 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dagameballa View Post

Yes it does..but it changes the color on the screen where you use it, it does not work correctly.

I encountered, I believe, what you are talking about. After my first attempt, I noticed that while "convergence" was better, parts of text letters in the menus picked up a bluish caste. (I had only adjusted red). Last week I took another stab at it. I did the four corners (the way it works) then two center area lines, for red and green, then switched over to blue, and repeated the process. I'm looking at the menus right now, and it looks rather good. Even at a foot or two (looking at the menu text.

I don't really know what Epson is doing here with this system, but from my experience, I'd say try again. Note, if your choice of colors is grayed out, that's because the color listed under Select Color, is not one of the colors offered in that selection. ie. Select Color says Red, then B/G will be grayed out. if you are on Blue, then R/G will be grayed out.

The final results look really good, and Really far better than this projector with the alignment turned off. -art

-art

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post #374 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufilo View Post

Does 5020 allows any panel convergence alignment?
Can't find it in the user manual confused.gif
Thanks.

Yes, and it should be somewhere in the manual. You will find it on the Extended menu setting, as LCD Alignment. -art

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post #375 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 07:36 PM
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Looking for my first projector with a 120" .8 gain screen. Projector will be about 16-17 feet away. Should I go 6020 or JVC DLA X-55.
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post #376 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presenter View Post

I encountered, I believe, what you are talking about. After my first attempt, I noticed that while "convergence" was better, parts of text letters in the menus picked up a bluish caste. (I had only adjusted red). Last week I took another stab at it. I did the four corners (the way it works) then two center area lines, for red and green, then switched over to blue, and repeated the process. I'm looking at the menus right now, and it looks rather good. Even at a foot or two (looking at the menu text.
I don't really know what Epson is doing here with this system, but from my experience, I'd say try again. Note, if your choice of colors is grayed out, that's because the color listed under Select Color, is not one of the colors offered in that selection. ie. Select Color says Red, then B/G will be grayed out. if you are on Blue, then R/G will be grayed out.
The final results look really good, and Really far better than this projector with the alignment turned off. -art


It appears the ability to correct is going to vary greatly via sample.

I did about 12-16 points on both Red and Blue (as they align to Green) and did the process properly as it goes through the steps (corners first) and it most definitely does alter the color across the screen (regardless of seemingly improved convergence). This feature is a pseudo alignment and while it can be used in moderation, to improve convergence, a unit that requires a reasonable amount of 'shift' is not likely to come out looking better based upon my experience with it on two different 5020's. So what I am saying here is do not rely upon the LCD alignment to fix a seriously misconverged 5020, simply exchange it if you get one that is 1 pixel row or more out.

For what it's worth, I have years of experience with convergence adjustments from getting my start into the world of front projection via CRT and would spend hours upon hours perfecting it (driving my eyes to see pixel aligmnment patterns for 20-30 minutes after the process had been completed wink.gif).

Jason
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post #377 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:11 PM
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[quote name="bigman69" url="/t/1427196/new-epson-home-cinema-3020-5020-and-6020-available-in-october-and-november-2012/330#post_22585397"
I just bought the Epson 3020, have critically viewed 6 blu-rays so far in 3d, and have not noticed any ghosting at all. This seems to track the positive reviews so far, that ghosting has practically been eliminated..[/quote]

A question - what setting for the glasses not on the glasses, in the 3D menu, of course?

-art

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post #378 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:25 PM
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Zombie! - greetings.

I saw a comment a couple of pages back where someone quoted you, or rather quoted someone quoting you as saying the 5020 clocks in at 80ms in terms of lag times.

OK, last year, that was just about what the HC5010 was measuring. This year I got 50 ms out of the HC5020. I didn't try to eliminate features one at a time, I just turned off a bunch to get that consistent measurement:
CFI: Off
Dynamic Iris: Off
Super REsolution: Off
even the main 3D setting: Off (rather than auto)

But the one that I suspect is the critical one (besides CFI which should be a no brainer), is on the Settings Advanced menu, I believe.

You have a choice of Fine or Fast image processing. Switching to fast, is probably the reason for a 30 ms drop in lagtime although turning off some of those others might be helping. the Epson was a consistent 50 with an occasional 49 and one 48 measured. Some of those features can probably be turned on without affecting the lag time.

My setup is the Macbook Pro, a high quality 3 meter HDMI cable, and timer software. I realize I cannot determine how much lag the Mac screen suffers, but it would seem from others out there that it's pretty minor, almost certainly under 10 ms? Last year with exactly the same setup, I measured 80-81, now 50-49. Whether that's fast enough for some of the hard core, others will judge. My two gamers that blog about lag times and projectors seem to think 50 ms is about the highest tolerable with serious gamers doing fast games. One has the 5020 (just received it today, from me) and the other is getting the Epson 3020 that I have here, on Saturday. BTW the 3020 measured exactly the same. Both bloggers have been banned over here, I guess for putting in links to their blogs, so you'll have to hit my site to read their gaming take on the Epson projectors and others. -art

-art

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post #379 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigman69 View Post

I might proceed with caution with the 5020.
I just took delivery of a 3020 this past saturday, and after less than 3 hours of use it has suffered from a pinkish/purplish dust blob at least a few pixels across (very noticeable in white/light background)....
Epson is shipping me a new one as we speak.
Hope this isn't a trend, I was worried about the non-sealed light path....
Otherwise picture is quite good for a $1,500 projector. Watched Madagascar 3d blu-ray and I could not detect any visible crosstalk/ghosting.

Hang onto that dust blob, it could become a collectors item. But seriously very few people encounter them. Not counting pico projectors the large majority of projectors out there do no have sealed light paths, (that's millions a year, perhaps a couple hundred thousand home projectors a year. Keep in mind, this is the biggest forum around. If 100 people are actively complaining about dust blobs, then others may have something to worry about. Nothing different in that regard from last year's Epson 3010 and 5010 and 6010, that's 10's of thousands of units. I'd say, get it swapped out and live the rest of your life dust blob free.

But you probably don't want to scare the natives. -art

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post #380 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Projector Lad View Post

And Art over at ProjectReviews.com has almost completed his review of the 5020UB... per their update approx 2 hours ago :-)
Projector Reviews
Art is working hard on the Epson Home Cinema 5020UB review. Stay tuned....
2 hours ago

50 ms, using MacBook Pro as the computer display... That's almost a perfect 30 ms better than last year's 5010. -art

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post #381 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presenter View Post

Zombie! - greetings.
I saw a comment a couple of pages back where someone quoted you, or rather quoted someone quoting you as saying the 5020 clocks in at 80ms in terms of lag times.
OK, last year, that was just about what the HC5010 was measuring. This year I got 50 ms out of the HC5020. I didn't try to eliminate features one at a time, I just turned off a bunch to get that consistent measurement:
CFI: Off
Dynamic Iris: Off
Super REsolution: Off
even the main 3D setting: Off (rather than auto)
But the one that I suspect is the critical one (besides CFI which should be a no brainer), is on the Settings Advanced menu, I believe.
You have a choice of Fine or Fast image processing. Switching to fast, is probably the reason for a 30 ms drop in lagtime although turning off some of those others might be helping. the Epson was a consistent 50 with an occasional 49 and one 48 measured. Some of those features can probably be turned on without affecting the lag time.
My setup is the Macbook Pro, a high quality 3 meter HDMI cable, and timer software. I realize I cannot determine how much lag the Mac screen suffers, but it would seem from others out there that it's pretty minor, almost certainly under 10 ms? Last year with exactly the same setup, I measured 80-81, now 50-49. Whether that's fast enough for some of the hard core, others will judge. My two gamers that blog about lag times and projectors seem to think 50 ms is about the highest tolerable with serious gamers doing fast games. One has the 5020 (just received it today, from me) and the other is getting the Epson 3020 that I have here, on Saturday. BTW the 3020 measured exactly the same. Both bloggers have been banned over here, I guess for putting in links to their blogs, so you'll have to hit my site to read their gaming take on the Epson projectors and others. -art

The proper way to test this is with a CRT display and in this instance we repeated 62 ms over and over in THX/Cinema/Natrual (FAST) with variances based upon other changed settings (but no changes lowered the lag below 62 ms, only raised it).

Jason
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post #382 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I hope they can fix this in a firmware update soon, I've tried a number of settings and cannot get this this feature to activate when the projector is in 3D mode. I think the HW50 with the RC has a bit of an advantage here and would like to see the SR enabled in 3D.

Greetings Zombie. That was my bad. I had projected that super res and dynamic iris would be working way back pre Cedia on my First Look, I had really been pushing for the dynamic iris to work (as well as other dynamic features, from the time the 5010 came out. Back then they told me - well, you got what you asked for... I guess I only got part - but at least it was the most important part. , Seems to have stuck in my mind. In fact when I posted the competitor's page on Wednesday (working from memory), I said it again. The core review has it straight. - only the dynamic iris works, neither super-res nor CFI works in 3D. I fixed the competitors page earlier today.

Sorry about that. Writing up a review is a several-day process, and by the time I'm at the competitor's page - usually a week or more after the rest, I'm already finished playing with another projector and on to a third. It gets foggy sometimes. Well, my apologies. And my thanks to the "hard core enthusiast" who dropped me an email pointing it out. Well, back to the grind, writing up the Mitsubishi HC7900UB, and working with the BenQ W1070, and shortly (finally), the Optoma HD23. -art (JVC's should start arriving beginning of Dec.)

PS. as to Sony's RC, yep, it's great, and better than S-R. On 3D, though, I figure there's a lot more going on, so I'm less concerned about lack of S-R in 3D. I'm just happy to have the dynamic iris work in 3D. anything else is a bonus.

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post #383 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

It appears the ability to correct is going to vary greatly via sample.
I did about 12-16 points on both Red and Blue (as they align to Green) and did the process properly as it goes through the steps (corners first) and it most definitely does alter the color across the screen (regardless of seemingly improved convergence). This feature is a pseudo alignment and while it can be used in moderation, to improve convergence, a unit that requires a reasonable amount of 'shift' is not likely to come out looking better based upon my experience with it on two different 5020's. (one actually is a 6020) So what I am saying here is do not rely upon the LCD alignment to fix a seriously misconverged 5020, simply exchange it if you get one that is 1 pixel row or more out.
For what it's worth, I have years of experience with convergence adjustments from getting my start into the world of front projection via CRT and would spend hours upon hours perfecting it (driving my eyes to see pixel aligmnment patterns for 20-30 minutes after the process had been completed wink.gif).
Jason

Fair enough. It is, as you say: pseudo conversion... That virtually guaranties that "no good deed goes unpunished" or, poorly translated, the more you use a feature the more something else suffers. So what else is new. I can say, however, that in my case at least, there was a definite net improvement. Of that I have no question. Red across most of the screen was up close to a pixel, to the point I could easily spot it on a 100" size from 10 feet back when viewing credits or other high contrast, uniform imagery. Improvement on one of the two was slight, on the other, impressive. I would not be totally surprised though if there are times when using it might not be an improvement. Ya never can tell. -art

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post #384 of 782 Old 11-16-2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by presenter View Post

Yes, and it should be somewhere in the manual. You will find it on the Extended menu setting, as LCD Alignment. -art

And no, it is not a true physical alignment of the panels. I'm still waiting for that feature. You wouldn't think 2 or 3 servo motors and some firmware would add that much to the price.

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post #385 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by presenter View Post

Zombie! - greetings.
I saw a comment a couple of pages back where someone quoted you, or rather quoted someone quoting you as saying the 5020 clocks in at 80ms in terms of lag times.

OK, last year, that was just about what the HC5010 was measuring. This year I got 50 ms out of the HC5020. I didn't try to eliminate features one at a time, I just turned off a bunch to get that consistent measurement:

CFI: Off
Dynamic Iris: Off
Super REsolution: Off
even the main 3D setting: Off (rather than auto)

But the one that I suspect is the critical one (besides CFI which should be a no brainer), is on the Settings Advanced menu, I believe.

You have a choice of Fine or Fast image processing. Switching to fast, is probably the reason for a 30 ms drop in lagtime although turning off some of those others might be helping. the Epson was a consistent 50 with an occasional 49 and one 48 measured. Some of those features can probably be turned on without affecting the lag time.

My setup is the Macbook Pro, a high quality 3 meter HDMI cable, and timer software. I realize I cannot determine how much lag the Mac screen suffers, but it would seem from others out there that it's pretty minor, almost certainly under 10 ms? Last year with exactly the same setup, I measured 80-81, now 50-49. Whether that's fast enough for some of the hard core, others will judge. My two gamers that blog about lag times and projectors seem to think 50 ms is about the highest tolerable with serious gamers doing fast games. One has the 5020 (just received it today, from me) and the other is getting the Epson 3020 that I have here, on Saturday. BTW the 3020 measured exactly the same. Both bloggers have been banned over here, I guess for putting in links to their blogs, so you'll have to hit my site to read their gaming take on the Epson projectors and others. -art

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

The proper way to test this is with a CRT display and in this instance we repeated 62 ms over and over in THX/Cinema/Natrual (FAST) with variances based upon other changed settings (but no changes lowered the lag below 62 ms, only raised it).
Jason

Art - Hi, I'm also using a CRT via VGA for the testing which has traditionally been the accepted way of measuring lag time. My measurements were closer to 70 MS, the only difference is I had the iris @ normal, not fast which explains the discrepancy between my measurements @70ms and the other Jason @ 62ms. I couldn't find 50ms on this particular sample regardless of the setting combinations. In the exact A/B setup with the HW50, I can put the Sony in 'gaming' mode and achieve a repeatable 30ms.

I'm not a heavy gamer and realize that some folks stated a noticeable improvement vs. last year, but regardless of 50ms vs 62ms, most agree it's not quite the Sony @ 30ms. It's good to see the effort for gamers though.

Regarding the SR & FI in 3D - I would have liked to see Super Resolution and FI in 3D mode this year. On my 142", I appreciate the SR used in moderation in 2D (same with RC on the HW50) and it would have been a nice feature on 5020. FI is a controversial topic, but I think Sony did a great job with the FI in 3D on the HW50 and wanted to also see this on the 5020 as well.

imo, the iris in 3D didn't have as much impact as I was expecting. In a direct A/B with the Sony (alternately covering each respective lens for comparison), I think the Sony (contrast wise) looks as good, if not better than the 5020 with the DI on.
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post #386 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

imo, the iris in 3D didn't have as much impact as I was expecting. In a direct A/B with the Sony (alternately covering each respective lens for comparison), I think the Sony (contrast wise) looks as good, if not better than the 5020 with the DI on.

If I were to upgrade my 6010 to a 6020 then one big reason would be for the DI in 3D. If the DI doesn't make much difference in 3D then why bother? I'd like to hear more opinions concerning how the DI works in 3D on the 5020/6020. Does changing the DI to high speed make a difference? What's the problem here? Art seems to think it makes a substantial difference while Zombie doesn't.
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post #387 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 01:25 PM
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Force10, I am waiting for the arrival of the 6020 and plan to purchase one as soon as they are released. Are you sure about their availability on November 27th? What is your source? Thanks.
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post #388 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 01:59 PM
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Can yoy use the Samsung 3D active glasses # SSG-2100AB with Epson 5020.

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post #389 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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I have ordered a 6020 through my local dealer. When I talked to him on Friday, he said the projector was on order and should be to them on Tuesday Nov. 20th.
We are looking to install the week of Nov. 26th if there are no delays.
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post #390 of 782 Old 11-17-2012, 06:33 PM
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Hi guys,
After making a decision about settling on 5020, I was thinking whether to get wireless 'e' version. Any advantages or disadvantages? Other than spending $300 more.

JHT
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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