JVC New Projectors Announced - CEDIA 2012 - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 04:29 PM
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Just found this on the AV Forums preview thread, which seems to confirm the 1300 lumens theory, but I've asked GaryB for a confirmation as well:

"Next we move on to the new model in the range, the DLA-X55R. In basic terms this is a mid-range projector which shares the 50,000:1 contrast and 1,300 lumens specifications of the entry model, but also adds in the new e-shift2 4K scaling device, improved 3D playback (includes RF emitter and glasses) and a full suite of calibration controls including the same Colour Management System (CMS) as the higher end models"

The x55 is the rs48, so same as the rs4810 in this regard.
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post #722 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

... the DLA-X55R. In basic terms this is a mid-range projector which shares the 50,000:1 contrast and 1,300 lumens specifications of the entry model, but also adds in the new e-shift2 ..."

It doesn't seem likely to me that the 4810/55 somehow escapes the lumen loss an extra optic in the path always inflicts.

Is there any reason to think you guys across the pond have better/more consistent information than we do?

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post #723 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post


Is there any reason to think you guys across the pond have better/more consistent information than we do?

they have contact with a well informed JVC staffer who has direct access to the engineers in Japan. These folks have already cleared up a number of questions about the tech copy on the US sites. (wire grid differences between models, # of color profiles, etc)
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post #724 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 06:53 PM
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Am I right for saying the RS4810 will definitely have better black levels and contrast compared to the upcoming Sony hw50? Art from projectorreviews.com has given it a very favorable review saying that the Sony has "very good black levels".
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post #725 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I watched MI4 Ghost protocol last night @ 14 feet from my 142". great visuals but a ridiculous movie overall. E-shift looked excellent with MPC set to 2 and the darby @ 30%.
I can't wait to see the e-shift 2. Cine4home's preview gives some evidence that it's going to be more intelligent that the RC on the Sony.
@ Holiday 121 - spend the extra and get the Cinema Contour frame. It's very well built and looks fantastic, especially at the larger sizes.
ALL - check out the new 'Terminator' UK release w/ DTS HD audio on the JVC. It looks better than ever and the dark battle scenes are made for the JVC.


If I go with the contour frame it means I have to step down in size. Which I might just have to make that sacrifice. I just wanted to go a big as I could. Not sure in the price difference got to check it out
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post #726 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

If I go with the contour frame it means I have to step down in size. Which I might just have to make that sacrifice. I just wanted to go a big as I could. Not sure in the price difference got to check it out

The Cinema Contour frame is a better choice, especially when you are talking about a larger screen.

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post #727 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I watched MI4 Ghost protocol last night @ 14 feet from my 142". great visuals but a ridiculous movie overall. E-shift looked excellent with MPC set to 2 and the darby @ 30%.
I can't wait to see the e-shift 2. Cine4home's preview gives some evidence that it's going to be more intelligent that the RC on the Sony.
@ Holiday 121 - spend the extra and get the Cinema Contour frame. It's very well built and looks fantastic, especially at the larger sizes.
ALL - check out the new 'Terminator' UK release w/ DTS HD audio on the JVC. It looks better than ever and the dark battle scenes are made for the JVC.

This has become one of my reference movies (love it), but Friday nights viewing of The Avengers in 3D... now that was ridiculous (...ly good albeit the expected ghosting!).

I forgot to mention I applaud your choice of The Art of Flight... with the Darby on the RS55... that too is ridiculous for a reference choice... spectacular! wink.gif

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post #728 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:05 PM
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Just looked at the prices . Would cost almost a $1,000.00 more between a perm and a cinema contour Jesus lol
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post #729 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:08 PM
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Just looked at the prices . Would cost almost a $1,000.00 more between a perm and a cinema contour Jesus lol

Shouldn't be anywhere near that much. Call Mike Garrett at AV Science for a price.

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post #730 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:28 PM
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The Cinema Contour has an angled frame to eliminate the frame causing shadows from the projected light hitting the screen fabric plus it comes with a fuzzy light absorbing coating on the frame instead of reflective black metal. If one is not getting a masking system to go over a fixed frame screen, the da-lite Cinema Contour is the Da-lite screen of choice. If one is purchasing a hang over masking system (Da-lite sells both a vertical and horizontal masking hang over frame) then since the screen material frame will be hidden bya the masking frame and one would want the screen fabric to be as close to the mask as posssible, a Da-lite Imager frame is a better and cheaper choice.

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post #731 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:31 PM
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Ok thanks for the info. I guess Contour it is . At work now so can't make the call. But I guess I will just have to sacrifice some viewing size. I'm sure it won't matter
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post #732 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Ok thanks for the info. I guess Contour it is . At work now so can't make the call. But I guess I will just have to sacrifice some viewing size. I'm sure it won't matter

Why not get the Carada Brilliant White Screen? Its a great screen for a great price. The gain is 1.3 though, so if you want a higher gain the Carada won't be for you.
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post #733 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Why not get the Carada Brilliant White Screen? Its a great screen for a great price. The gain is 1.3 though, so if you want a higher gain the Carada won't be for you.


That was in my list of options. But I decided to mount projector on back wall 18 feet back. And figured why not just get the high power. I'm a fan of brightness. This is going to be my first setup so really have nothing to go off of
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post #734 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

Am I right for saying the RS4810 will definitely have better black levels and contrast compared to the upcoming Sony hw50? Art from projectorreviews.com has given it a very favorable review saying that the Sony has "very good black levels".

I think that's a safe bet. The preliminary native #'s are a fair bit less than the VW95 which I still found as a second runner up to the RS55 with my dark sci-fi (underworld, terminator, aliens, etc). With the HP screen I want the lowest black floor possible.

The Sony's big feature is likely going to be the calibrated lumens. We have to wait for the final product before knowing the exact D65 lumen output. It's been established that the HW50 lens is similar to the HW30 which caught some flack last year. I was fine with the HW30 PQ but it wasn't as sharp as my JVC's in an A/B comparison. They either made changes in the optical block, or the RC sharpening is leading the eye to believe there is a major change in PQ this year (or both?).

With the recent comments from Cine4home about the e-shift2 and potentially improved 3D, it looks like the HW50 and the 4810 will be duking it out this fall. I'd like to see the HW50 3D to see if any changes were made from the current HW30.
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post #735 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I think that's a safe bet. The preliminary native #'s are a fair bit less than the VW95 which I still found as a second runner up to the RS55 with my dark sci-fi (underworld, terminator, aliens, etc). With the HP screen I want the lowest black floor possible.
The Sony's big feature is likely going to be the calibrated lumens. We have to wait for the final product before knowing the exact D65 lumen output. It's been established that the HW50 lens is similar to the HW30 which caught some flack last year. I was fine with the HW30 PQ but it wasn't as sharp as my JVC's in an A/B comparison. They either made changes in the optical block, or the RC sharpening is leading the eye to believe there is a major change in PQ this year (or both?).
With the recent comments from Cine4home about the e-shift2 and potentially improved 3D, it looks like the HW50 and the 4810 will be duking it out this fall. I'd like to see the HW50 3D to see if any changes were made from the current HW30.

Art seemed to give the impression that the RS45 couldn't quite match the black levels of the HW50 but the RS45 has the better dynamic range. I also thought I mentioned others stating that the VW95 didn't have as black of blacks as the rs45s so this can be a bit confusing.

I know that the HW30 doesn't have the 3D of a DLP but were you fairly happy with the 3D of the HW30? You used to rave about it but not quite as much anymore.
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post #736 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

That was in my list of options. But I decided to mount projector on back wall 18 feet back. And figured why not just get the high power. I'm a fan of brightness. This is going to be my first setup so really have nothing to go off of

Sitting 10-12 feet back and mounting the projector 18 feet back is only going to produce a gain of about 1.4 to 1.6 or less with the HP screen from the angle to clear your head, the projector will need to be mounted at about 6 to 7 feet high or more depending on exactly how low you mount your screen and how high you sit off the ground (and the higher you mount the screen the less gain you will see from there, you could drop under 1.3 gain). You can cover the cheaper frames with a non-reflective coating, either a black fabric on the outside or other material (although I've never done it so I don't know how it looks).

The more expensive frames are always going to look better aesthetically, but it's going to cost a lot more. Note that I use a pulldown HP screen and the black metal reflects very little light because the metal is only at the very top of the screen. I am not sure how much the cheap Da-Lite frame would reflect. Once the lights go off, mine looks pretty close to a fixed frame, but yah when you see it in the room with the lights on, well it looks less aesthetically pleasing. Part of the reason it works in my setup is because the entire room is black, so the screen is almost invisible anyways because everything blends in.


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post #737 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

No, the 4810 is not the RS56 less the dual iris. We know that because the 4810 does not have the new wire grid found in the 56/66.

Is JVC really stupid enough to run two production lines for wire grid components? Surely it makes more sense to manufacturer just one in greater numbers.
According to specs the "new" wire grid does not improve performance noticeably anyway.
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post #738 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Art seemed to give the impression that the RS45 couldn't quite match the black levels of the HW50 but the RS45 has the better dynamic range. I also thought I mentioned others stating that the VW95 didn't have as black of blacks as the rs45s so this can be a bit confusing.
I know that the HW30 doesn't have the 3D of a DLP but were you fairly happy with the 3D of the HW30? You used to rave about it but not quite as much anymore.

I measured my own RS-45 at over 40,000:1 Native on/off. The numbers I saw someone post in the hw50 thread were 5,000:1 to 10,000:1 on/off, which is inline with last year's Sony hw30.
It's a pipe dream it will beat the JVC in dark scenes.


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post #739 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Art seemed to give the impression that the RS45 couldn't quite match the black levels of the HW50 but the RS45 has the better dynamic range. I also thought I mentioned others stating that the VW95 didn't have as black of blacks as the rs45s so this can be a bit confusing.

I know that the HW30 doesn't have the 3D of a DLP but were you fairly happy with the 3D of the HW30? You used to rave about it but not quite as much anymore.

Didn't his RS45 have some odd blue tint in low APL scenes? I can't speak for his particular copy, but i've seen all these models in my HT that i've calibrated myself.

With the HP I can clamp the iris to -11 or lower and still have a bright image on the RS55. None of the other models look quite the same with the deep black floor of the JVC. I'm specifically focusing on 2 genre's that put a beating on a projector in this department. dark-sci and stage concerts. The first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution is my benchmark.

When we're dealing with mixed contrast scenes, it's a little more difficult to compare. The Sony had a great image and I liked it for the 3D and 2D HDTV.

The problem with the 3D is this... once you see a completely ghost free image with absolutely no flickering, it creates an image of what 3D should look like. Very easy on the eyes, sharp and crystal clear. I know folks say we shouldn't go hunting for ghosts, but if it's there, it's there. The eye may not be drawn to it, but it's likely the sub-conscience contributor to eye fatique and headaches. The flicker has much to do with this as well.

Watching 3D DLP for 4+ hours is like watching regular TV. This is the benchmark we need to eventually get to, with the excellent contrast of the JVC. Cine4home's comments have me looking forward to seeing the 3D on the new models.
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post #740 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I measured my own RS-45 at over 40,000:1 Native on/off. The numbers I saw someone post in the hw50 thread were 5,000:1 to 10,000:1 on/off, which is inline with last year's Sony hw30.
It's a pipe dream it will beat the JVC in dark scenes.

As far as mounting the screen there will be only a one inch clearance from the top of the screen to the ceiling. My ceilings are 8 feet high.

I can easily mount the projector on the back wall right above eye level. Not sure in the height because I have not purchased my seats. They will not be on a riser so I'm guessing maybe 6 feet or 7 feet up on the back wall. This should be able to get me the correct 2.4 or close to it gain am I correct?


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post #741 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 10:39 PM
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My cinema contour is very close to the top of the ceiling. Once you see how well built the black velvet frame is, you'll understand why it's that much more $$.

getting the projector as close to eye level will provide maximum gain. In this position, you can crank down the iris on the JVC and get the bright 'Plasma on the wall' look with excellent contrast.
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post #742 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 10:51 PM
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This looks like the direction I will be heading. I have to order the screen soon because I don't want to get my pj and not have a screen.
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post #743 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

With the HP I can clamp the iris to -11 or lower and still have a bright image on the RS55. None of the other models look quite the same with the deep black floor of the JVC. .

Zombie, what fL do you get with the iris all the way down to -11 on the RS55 with a 140" screen?
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post #744 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:03 PM
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Murray - hi, I'll measure it this week. I watched MI4 Ghost protocol the other night @ -11 and felt like I could turn it down some more to -13. The brightness is still excellent on the HP since I have the RS55 close to eye level.

I did an experiment and decided to run the lamp at high altitude mode since this projector was new. I haven't measured it in a while, but it looks great right now.
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post #745 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:09 PM
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What exactly does fl mean foot lambert? But in noob terms
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post #746 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

As far as mounting the screen there will be only a one inch clearance from the top of the screen to the ceiling. My ceilings are 8 feet high.

I don't mean to dash your hopes, but see this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428036/jvc-new-projectors-announced-cedia-2012/720#post_22453379

I don't know how you are planning to get near 2.4 gain (no way), 2.2 gain is more like it ONLY if the projector is very close to your eyes (and that assumes the projector is within 1 or 2 feet of your head and the screen angle is exactly optimal). The numbers you gave earlier show more realistically a 1.3 to 1.6 gain, depending on exactly how your angles come out.


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post #747 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I don't mean to dash your hopes, but see this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428036/jvc-new-projectors-announced-cedia-2012/720#post_22453379
I don't know how you are planning to get near 2.4 gain (no way), 2.0 to 2.2 gain is more like it if the projector is right next to your eyes (and that assumes the projector is within 1 foot of your head).
The numbers you gave earlier show more realistically a 1.3 to 1.6 gain, depending on exactly how your angles come out.

So then if I mounted it from ceiling 15 feet back a carada screen would be about the same as a hp and if not barely a difference in brightness?
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post #748 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:17 PM
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No, mounting the PJ 15 foot back changes it, you said 18 foot back originally.
You may be able to squeeze out 1.8 gain or slightly more if you mount the thing only 3 to 5 feet from your head, that is a different thing entirely than mounting the PJ at 18 feet back.
The angle becomes less severe at that distance and increases the gain.

On the original measurement you gave, if you mount it at 18 feet back and you sit at 12 feet back, then the HP screen will produce about 1.5 to 1.6 gain, if you sit at 10 feet back, the projector will need to be raised a bit more to clear your head, which is why the gain drops (and because the distance to the screen affects the angle).


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post #749 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:20 PM
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Well I understand that. But I have 2 options . If I ceiling mount I can do 15-18 feet back. If I shelf mount which is the only way I can get it almost at eye level it would have to be 18 feet back.
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post #750 of 1073 Old 10-01-2012, 11:23 PM
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I missed the part about 18 feet back, that changes the situation with the HP.

I have the RS55 @ ~16 feet from the 142", seating is ~14 feet.
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