JVC New Projectors Announced - CEDIA 2012 - Page 36 - AVS Forum
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post #1051 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 07:15 AM
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I was told the same thing at CEDIA about the new lamps and that they should last 4,000 hours. They are from a different manufacturer and I was also told that they have been tested by JVC and the problems are solved. I also forgot to report that JVC was using the old glasses when I tested Sammy's adventure with 3D. They only had a few pairs of the new glasses available. Even with the old glasses I observed less ghosting. We will have to see if things are really improved when the new models come out.
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post #1052 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I was told the same thing at CEDIA about the new lamps and that they should last 4,000 hours. They are from a different manufacturer and I was also told that they have been tested by JVC and the problems are solved. I also forgot to report that JVC was using the old glasses when I tested Sammy's adventure with 3D. They only had a few pairs of the new glasses available. Even with the old glasses I observed less ghosting. We will have to see if things are really improved when the new models come out.

Old glasses/new glasses did not make any difference as far as ghosting last year, so chances are it will be the same this year.

As for the lamp, I will believe it when/if it happens. We already have some suspect reports from the pre-prod models of under performing bulbs (Krains and the "dim, dim" 3d report by another member) which shakes my confidence a bit. Even the RS40/50/60 had a 3000 hour rated lamp life and there were/are numerous reported issues with those.

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post #1053 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 07:52 AM
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Hopefully the glasses are not a factor when it comes to ghosting. Still deciding which projector I am going to "switch" to but if glasses were an issue having to purchase 6 pairs of JVC glasses is very expensive at $179 a pair. As far as I know AVS is unable to get discounts on the accessories.
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post #1054 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 08:05 AM
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my guess is a change inside the projector for the improved 3D. If I still have my RS55 when the 4810 and 56 arrives, I'll test it with the new JVC glasses.

These guys had some good impressions on a recent demo in the UK.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1688780-exclusive-avforums-event-experience-new-line-up-jvc-projectors-2.html
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post #1055 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Hopefully the glasses are not a factor when it comes to ghosting. Still deciding which projector I am going to "switch" to but if glasses were an issue having to purchase 6 pairs of JVC glasses is very expensive at $179 a pair. As far as I know AVS is unable to get discounts on the accessories.

I doubt ghosting performance will make an ounce of difference between the old and new glasses, just like last year. I think the one area the new glasses will have the most benefit is the tint which looks to be tamed vs the old models which I bet will be nice. Also, were last years glasses rechargeable? I still use the Xpand 103s and original JVC glasses which are battery powered. I love the idea of not having to deal with batteries and being able to recharge instead which will be great with the new glasses (maybe this was introduced with last years models though?). Of course all that will be moot if the ghosting is not significantly better since my 3d watching will be about what it is now which is next to none. tongue.gif

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post #1056 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 08:19 AM
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my guess is a change inside the projector for the improved 3D. If I still have my RS55 when the 4810 and 56 arrives, I'll test it with the new JVC glasses.
These guys had some good impressions on a recent demo in the UK.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1688780-exclusive-avforums-event-experience-new-line-up-jvc-projectors-2.html

Sounds like Eshift2 is still a subtle difference from some of those remarks. To quote post #41.........E-shift I found cleaned the image up. Thats it. I didn't see a night and day difference when turning on or off. I saw a great difference with the Reality Creation but in many ways i saw artefacts too with RC that i didn't see with E-shift. I also note that e-shift levels are adjustable. I didn't play with this. So my question is how much will people like me who have further view distances (1.4 and 1.8) really benefit from eshift2? If it is that subtle, is it even worth it for the further view distance/smaller screen guys? confused.gif How much impact do the adjustable levels have that are mentioned in that post?

Also loved how they used IMAX Under the Sea.........that is one of the few titles that looks excellent on both the 40 and 45 I had with only a few instances of ghosting on the whole disc, one of which is right in the opening credits. Come on JVC...........throw up something challenging if the ghosting is TRULY improved. frown.gif They also used the final battle in The Avengers..........is that a ghosting torture scene as I have not seen it in 3d (only 2d)? How to Train Your Dragon was also used which does have some ghosting here and there, so that is definitely a better test although still not a real test IMO that something like Despicable Me, Grand Canyon, Patagonia, Sammy's, etc.....would provide.


Besides all that, some nice favorable reports which is great. smile.gif

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post #1057 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 09:15 AM
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Sounds like Eshift2 is still a subtle difference from some of those remarks. To quote post #41.........E-shift I found cleaned the image up. Thats it. I didn't see a night and day difference when turning on or off. I saw a great difference with the Reality Creation but in many ways i saw artefacts too with RC that i didn't see with E-shift. I also note that e-shift levels are adjustable. I didn't play with this. So my question is how much will people like me who have further view distances (1.4 and 1.8) really benefit from eshift2? If it is that subtle, is it even worth it for the further view distance/smaller screen guys? confused.gif How much impact do the adjustable levels have that are mentioned in that post?
Also loved how they used IMAX Under the Sea.........that is one of the few titles that looks excellent on both the 40 and 45 I had with only a few instances of ghosting on the whole disc, one of which is right in the opening credits. Come on JVC...........throw up something challenging if the ghosting is TRULY improved. frown.gif They also used the final battle in The Avengers..........is that a ghosting torture scene as I have not seen it in 3d (only 2d)? How to Train Your Dragon was also used which does have some ghosting here and there, so that is definitely a better test although still not a real test IMO that something like Despicable Me, Grand Canyon, Patagonia, Sammy's, etc.....would provide.
Besides all that, some nice favorable reports which is great. smile.gif

rwestley did throw in Sammy's at CEDIA and he reported the ghosting was much better than what he sees on his RS45. I think it is pretty clear that the 3D is improved. The only question is if it is enough for the guys that want good 2D and 3D from a single projector. I don't think the LCOS projectors are ever going to match the DLP's as far as 3D ghosting goes, but then again the DLP's will never match the LCOS projectors native contrast spec. Pick your poison. smile.gif

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post #1058 of 1073 Old 10-27-2012, 09:36 AM
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rwestley did throw in Sammy's at CEDIA and he reported the ghosting was much better than what he sees on his RS45. I think it is pretty clear that the 3D is improved. The only question is if it is enough for the guys that want good 2D and 3D from a single projector. I don't think the LCOS projectors are ever going to match the DLP's as far as 3D ghosting goes, but then again the DLP's will never match the LCOS projectors native contrast spec. Pick your poison. smile.gif

Nothing is clear for me at this point Mike in all due respect from all I have seen of my 40, 45 and going off the hype of last year and what ultimately materialized. One of the latest reports talking about "dim, dim" 3d makes me wonder if the 3d lumens are even as good as last year, much less improved. Waiting for the Zombie shots/report which should be very telling as far as what if any real improvement there is. I am certainly not expecting DLP like ghosting performance out of JVC or any other non DLP projector and flicker will no doubt be the same on the new JVC units, but a significant ghosting improvement would be great and a step in the right direction. Of course a significant improvement to me might mean something different vs someone else. I would like to see major improvement for not only blu ray 3d, but top/bottom and side by side material as well like games which is an even bigger challenge for these non DLP machines. I still also find it a shame that JVC still does not have CMD available for 3d in the 3rd gen machines which I assume is a hardware limitation.

rwestley SA test is promising, but at the same time he only watched about 5-10 minutes as I remember and even in that short time did notice some ghosting still.........how is the whole movie going to look?

Chances are I will just have to stick to my original plan and get a DLP at some point for 3d when I can score a BenQ for a bit lower then they are selling for now. I really want to avoid the clutter of a 2 (or 3!) projector setup if possible though. From my experience with the Acer 5360, contrast is not as big of a factor IMO in 3d once you put on the glasses which help level the playing field to some degree. Solid ghosting/flicker performance is MUCH more important from my perspective from what I have experienced. I am still holding out to see the Zombie shots/report though before making any decision on which way to go this year as far as a projector (up to and including buying nothing and sitting it out until next year and just enjoying the 45)........time seems to be going VERY slow right now! tongue.gif

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post #1059 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 04:52 PM
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Cine4home has just posted an update on the tests for the new JVC projectors (still with preproduction units).
Here: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/JVC_X-Serie_2012/JVC_DILA_2012.htm#Update

As I'm trying to work out which model would be suitable for upgrading my RS20 (either the RS4810 or RS56), I did a couple of quick calculations based on the updated cine4home data comparing the X55/RS4810 and X75/RS56 and the original HD750/RS20.
Assuming middle zoom, high bulb, Iris 3/4 open I arrived at the following lumens/contrast comparison:
RS20 - 700 lumens, 30750:1 contrast
RS4801 - 763 lumens, 29250:1 contrast
RS56 - 730 lumens, 41000:1 contrast

So according to the cine4home data, the RS4810 will have similar contrast to the RS20 but be a little brighter (I'm sure pretty much a wash), but the RS56 should have 30% more contrast for the same brightness, which should be a small improvement for darker scenes.
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post #1060 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 06:25 PM
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Cine4home has just posted an update on the tests for the new JVC projectors (still with preproduction units).
Here: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/JVC_X-Serie_2012/JVC_DILA_2012.htm#Update
As I'm trying to work out which model would be suitable for upgrading my RS20 (either the RS4810 or RS56), I did a couple of quick calculations based on the updated cine4home data comparing the X55/RS4810 and X75/RS56 and the original HD750/RS20.
Assuming middle zoom, high bulb, Iris 3/4 open I arrived at the following lumens/contrast comparison:
RS20 - 700 lumens, 30750:1 contrast
RS4801 - 763 lumens, 29250:1 contrast
RS56 - 730 lumens, 41000:1 contrast
So according to the cine4home data, the RS4810 will have similar contrast to the RS20 but be a little brighter (I'm sure pretty much a wash), but the RS56 should have 30% more contrast for the same brightness, which should be a small improvement for darker scenes.

Thanks for the link. You know, in real world terms that contrast difference between the 4810 and 56 will be very slight and not worth the price premium. In my opinion, you will see a real difference when you compare the 4810 to the top of the line RS66. The black floor on the 66 will be noticeably darker (with the proper dedicated room of course). Now, if only I had more money lying around...wink.gif
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post #1061 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 07:03 PM
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Hmm. The RS66 is significantly more expensive. If that is the case then JVC hasn't made any progress since the RS20 on contrast levels (which is a 4 year old projector) when compared to its modern equivalent the RS56. Take out the e-shift and the 3D and its basically the same projector? That's disappointing.
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post #1062 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 07:11 PM
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Hmm. The RS66 is significantly more expensive. If that is the case then JVC hasn't made any progress since the RS20 on contrast levels (which is a 4 year old projector) when compared to its modern equivalent the RS56. Take out the e-shift and the 3D and its basically the same projector? That's disappointing.

Take out the eshift, 3D, longer lasting bulb, and added brightness its the same as the RS20. Maybe its just me, but that is the reason its not the RS20. It's not the same projector for that reason. If contrast was the only reason to buy a projector, Epson and Panasonic will not sell at all
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post #1063 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 07:22 PM
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RS20 bulbs last a while unlike the newer JVCs. Brightness is also a wash as the cine4home data shows compared to the RS20. So basically from a lumens and contrast perspective the RS4810 is equivalent and if I want a noticeable jump in contrast I need to go to the RS66?
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post #1064 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Cine4home has just posted an update on the tests for the new JVC projectors (still with preproduction units).
Here: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/JVC_X-Serie_2012/JVC_DILA_2012.htm#Update
As I'm trying to work out which model would be suitable for upgrading my RS20 (either the RS4810 or RS56), I did a couple of quick calculations based on the updated cine4home data comparing the X55/RS4810 and X75/RS56 and the original HD750/RS20.
Assuming middle zoom, high bulb, Iris 3/4 open I arrived at the following lumens/contrast comparison:
RS20 - 700 lumens, 30750:1 contrast
RS4801 - 763 lumens, 29250:1 contrast
RS56 - 730 lumens, 41000:1 contrast
So according to the cine4home data, the RS4810 will have similar contrast to the RS20 but be a little brighter (I'm sure pretty much a wash), but the RS56 should have 30% more contrast for the same brightness, which should be a small improvement for darker scenes.

I think last years lumen numbers would carry more weight, than pre-production numbers. Pre-production units are just that, pre-production. They are to help the engineers to determine what areas need to be tweaked and improved. Do you really think the 46/4810 is really going to have 140 less lumens than last years 45?

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post #1065 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 07:58 PM
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With a new DC bulb, power supply & light engine tweaking its certainly possible that lumens output has gone down (and weren't there reports from a French forum of less lumens?). However it seems that it is speculation at this point and best to wait for the final production units before drawing any conclusion. Hopefully we see more lumens and better contrast for the final units which are due around this time next month.
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Do we know if the bulbs will be DC?
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post #1067 of 1073 Old 11-09-2012, 08:14 PM
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With a new DC bulb, power supply & light engine tweaking its certainly possible that lumens output has gone down (and weren't there reports from a French forum of less lumens?). However it seems that it is speculation at this point and best to wait for the final production units before drawing any conclusion. Hopefully we see more lumens and better contrast for the final units which are due around this time next month.

Might want to check into that review a little bit. Also it has not been confirmed that the lamp is DC. It does have a new power supply, but mat not be DC. I have been told to expect the same or slightly more 2D lumens and an increase in 3D lumens.

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post #1068 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 07:13 AM
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I think last years lumen numbers would carry more weight, than pre-production numbers. Pre-production units are just that, pre-production. They are to help the engineers to determine what areas need to be tweaked and improved. Do you really think the 46/4810 is really going to have 140 less lumens than last years 45?

Does the RS4810 have the E-shift as this will reduce the lumens by 100 according to JVC's specs for the X55 verses the X35 (non Eshift)?

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post #1069 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 08:01 AM
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Does the RS4810 have the E-shift as this will reduce the lumens by 100 according to JVC's specs for the X55 verses the X35 (non Eshift)?

It has Eshift 2.

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post #1070 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 08:11 AM
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I think last years lumen numbers would carry more weight, than pre-production numbers. Pre-production units are just that, pre-production. They are to help the engineers to determine what areas need to be tweaked and improved. Do you really think the 46/4810 is really going to have 140 less lumens than last years 45?

Well the 4810 in particular is rated 100 lumens less than the 45 (1200 vs 1300) and has eshift2, so considering that we should expect ~100 lumens or so less, right?

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post #1071 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 08:24 AM
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Thanks for the link. You know, in real world terms that contrast difference between the 4810 and 56 will be very slight and not worth the price premium. In my opinion, you will see a real difference when you compare the 4810 to the top of the line RS66. The black floor on the 66 will be noticeably darker (with the proper dedicated room of course). Now, if only I had more money lying around...wink.gif

There's a few extra features of the RS56 I'm interested in seeing. I'm curious about the extra 3D gamma modes and the mobile device controls. I've been yelled at before for making adjustments during a movie, especially to the picture tone controls and the dark/bright level controls on the RS55. It would be cool to use the ipad or android to make a quick adjustment without the large menus popping up on the screen.

RS56.jpg

I just noticed the new 3D glasses have a 2D mode for those not interested in seeing the 3D. I think that's a good feature as I've definitely been in the situation where a few people didn't want to watch a movie in 3D and then have to collectively decide if it's 2D for everyone.

I'd also like to see how the auto-calibration compares with a calibrated meter I have from Tom Huffman. I don't have a mini 3D lumagen and manual calibrations can be time consuming, especially adjusting the gamma curve. If this gets it 'close enough' that I can run through an auto cal every 50-100 hours in a few minutes, that would be a great feature.
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post #1072 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 09:23 AM
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I'd also like to see how the auto-calibration compares with a calibrated meter I have from Tom Huffman. I don't have a mini 3D lumagen and manual calibrations can be time consuming, especially adjusting the gamma curve. If this gets it 'close enough' that I can run through an auto cal every 50-100 hours in a few minutes, that would be a great feature.
What would be an even greater feature would be a longer lasting more stable lamp that would alleviate the need to calibrate every 50-100 hours. Here's hoping the lamp hype is true....

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post #1073 of 1073 Old 11-10-2012, 09:34 AM
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...It would be cool to use the ipad or android to make a quick adjustment without the large menus popping up on the screen...

You can already do that now with your RS55 I believe. I've used iRule for things like gamma selection, /cmd, etc and nothing is on screen. The changes for Brightness/Contras Etc, is only seen on the bottom of the screen. LIkely the new app may hide it all together but iRule is one of the coolest apps ever. You can customize your interface, make multiple screens for one activity and swipe to change through pages. And what is great is that most commands are discreet and you won't get things out of sync like the standard commands used in the Logitech Harmony devices. Right now I'm controlling my RS45, Denon 3808CI, and Insteon lighting over IP. It's only $50 and it fairly simple to program (but designing the interface can be a little time consuming).

I sound like a commercial but iRule for me has been as great as the HP screen which says a lot. biggrin.gif

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