MITSUBISHI HC5, new 3D SXRD projector based on HC9000 2500 euros - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 12:00 AM
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My point is, all current digital projectors suffer from low (<1080 lines on 1080p content) motion resolution, regardless of price tag. Am I wrong?
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post #92 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 08:10 AM
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I do not know. I don't know that much about the internal electronics driving the mirrors and what not.

All I know is from the perspective of a programmer, I can see that when the motion gets the fastest, more pixels are being updated on the screen faster, so that is going to be closer to the MAX bit-rate of the internal processing, internal bus speeds between the different chips, and the processing code. It'd be like hitting 100% CPU on your video card, but I don't know if that's the real reason. For all I know that has nothing to do with it, and the real reason is more like what you said, something internally goes on beyond VP and slows it down when the mirrors are going too fast.

Interesting, just don't know.


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post #93 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

My dealer says the HC5 and HC9000 are the same projector. He use to sell the 9000 and now sells the HC5. Prices are really great on this unit!
Makes me consider one at his current pricing.

I was originally told that also, but they can't be exactly the same. The HC5 does not weigh as much as the HD9000, so there are some changes. Just what, i do not know.

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post #94 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was originally told that also, but they can't be exactly the same. The HC5 does not weigh as much as the HD9000, so there are some changes. Just what, i do not know.
Excuse me, where did you see that it weights differently?
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post #95 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I was originally told that also, but they can't be exactly the same. The HC5 does not weigh as much as the HD9000, so there are some changes. Just what, i do not know.

The biggest source of weight in most CE devices is the power supply. Given the problems in the early HC9000s, it is likely there is a new PS in the 5. Maybe more efficient. Other than that, who knows?

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post #96 of 226 Old 05-10-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

The biggest source of weight in most CE devices is the power supply. Given the problems in the early HC9000s, it is likely there is a new PS in the 5. Maybe more efficient. Other than that, who knows?

Actually, I just checked the Mitsubishi global site. Both the HC9000 and the HC5 show on their site as weighing 14.5kg. Also, I found a seller through an AVS member that says to email him and he says he can prove they are the same unit. Also says he has the scoop on why they changed the naming. I'll post what he gives me.

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post #97 of 226 Old 05-12-2013, 12:54 PM
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I heard back from the dealer via email. His information is anecdotal, but seems valid. The early HC5 units came in plain boxes with the 9000 books, manuals and spec sheets included. Given the marketing sheets for both are exactly the same, his deduction is that they are and since several Mits reps indicated the same thing, it makes sense. In fact, the reps expressing it is an upgrade is due to the fact that the HC5 contains the new designed power supply that was added to the 9000 as well as the updated CMS.

No one knows for sure, but the story is that the HC9000 early units were problematic enough that they changed the designation to make sure there was no confusion whether or not someone was getting the upgraded unit as they were by the HC9000 and HC9000 "advanced" naming scheme.


TIFWIW
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post #98 of 226 Old 05-12-2013, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I heard back from the dealer via email. His information is anecdotal, but seems valid. The early HC5 units came in plain boxes with the 9000 books, manuals and spec sheets included. Given the marketing sheets for both are exactly the same, his deduction is that they are and since several Mits reps indicated the same thing, it makes sense. In fact, the reps expressing it is an upgrade is due to the fact that the HC5 contains the new designed power supply that was added to the 9000 as well as the updated CMS.

No one knows for sure, but the story is that the HC9000 early units were problematic enough that they changed the designation to make sure there was no confusion whether or not someone was getting the upgraded unit as they were by the HC9000 and HC9000 "advanced" naming scheme.


TIFWIW

Is that why they change some model numbers like BenQ W7000+ or something like that?

Any owners able to comment on 3D performance or fast moving images?
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post #99 of 226 Old 05-13-2013, 10:27 AM
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Does anyone know about the warranty on the HC5?

Is Mitsubishi honoring them?

 

I can't find any info on Mitsubishi's USA site.

Thanks, Bill

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post #100 of 226 Old 05-13-2013, 10:59 AM
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I know someone that has seen both, though I have not personally. The feeling is that they are the same projector, or if any differences, they are small.
That said, it would be interesting if someone took on/off readings to try to confirm it.


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post #101 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 07:28 AM
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UPS shows "out for delivery", so my HC5 should arrive today. Unfortunately, UPS usually delivers late to my neighborhood (I have received items as late as 7:30PM) so I may not get as much quality time in tonight as I'd like. Hoping for a slow day for UPS today!

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post #102 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 AM
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Does the HC5 come close to the HW50es in terms of overall picture quality? How about a JVC45?

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post #103 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sn1ffb0 View Post

Does the HC5 come close to the HW50es in terms of overall picture quality? How about a JVC45?

Personally, from what I've seen, the HC5 has a better picture. The lens on the HC5 is a lot nicer than what's on the HW50ES and lends to a sharper picture (without the need to add artificial sharpening like RC) and it also helps boost ANSI contrast. The HC5's picture has a lot more pop where the HW50ES's picture can look a bit flat and soft. THe HC5 has great native contrast so you won't need to engage the dynamic iris like you'd need to over with the HW50ES to get better contrast and black levels.

The JVC is different. It has a decent lens and can look as sharp as the HC5 as long as convergence is good. Motion is a weakness imo of JVC projectors and the HC5 (and HW50ES) do much better natively with motion and better with frame interpolation on as well. Native contrast will be this projectors high point. It can have close to 10000:1 more on/off, but that doesn't automatically mean it's going to have better picture quality. For some reason this one aspect automatically means " Great PQ' on this forum. JVC is just lucky that they've built the projector well in other areas too. I'd say this comparison to the HC5 is a toss up and depends on your taste in certain aspects of picture quality. There is no definitive answer, but if I were you I'd look at either the HC5 or RS45.

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post #104 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Personally, from what I've seen, the HC5 has a better picture. The lens on the HC5 is a lot nicer than what's on the HW50ES and lends to a sharper picture (without the need to add artificial sharpening like RC) and it also helps boost ANSI contrast. The HC5's picture has a lot more pop where the HW50ES's picture can look a bit flat and soft. THe HC5 has great native contrast so you won't need to engage the dynamic iris like you'd need to over with the HW50ES to get better contrast and black levels.

The JVC is different. It has a decent lens and can look as sharp as the HC5 as long as convergence is good. Motion is a weakness imo of JVC projectors and the HC5 (and HW50ES) do much better natively with motion and better with frame interpolation on as well. Native contrast will be this projectors high point. It can have close to 10000:1 more on/off, but that doesn't automatically mean it's going to have better picture quality. For some reason this one aspect automatically means " Great PQ' on this forum. JVC is just lucky that they've built the projector well in other areas too. I'd say this comparison to the HC5 is a toss up and depends on your taste in certain aspects of picture quality. There is no definitive answer, but if I were you I'd look at either the HC5 or RS45.

Thank you very much.

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post #105 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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Do not buy an RS45! Only consider the newer models with the updated lamps (RS46 for instance). The RS45 has a great picture, but the lamp burn out problem is severe and not worth the trouble. The HC-5 is comparable, blacks are not as fantastic, motion is better.
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post #106 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 09:25 PM
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Some quick observations and I will try to post more detail later as I have to turn in soon.

First, this is the largest projector I have owned. The box is huge! In fact, the UPS guy looked a little flushed at 7PM when he rang the doorbell. I would say to CRT fans looking to upgrade to digital projectors that this one makes that jump much less noticeable if only in size alone. And, for those who asked, this is definitely a US unit. There is a designation on the box next to the label that it is meant for US sale.

I was able to place the projector on a high table behind my seating area and on top of its box to get some trial time with the unit- this put the unit almost dead center in the middle of the screen. First, I can tell you it is pretty sharp. Not as sharp as my Optoma DLP but sharper than most other PJs I have owned (mostly LCD). I can also say that dialing in the screen with this unit is a joy thanks to the power shift and zoom. Tonight I focused on making sure the unit was in good shape, so no calibration at all, just set it and forget it for now (Cinema mode, etc, etc.). I was focused on focus uniformity, making sure everything worked and playing with settings to stress test the unit. I can at least say it passed all with flying colors: convergence was spot on, sharpness was uniform all around the screen and everything seems to work as advertised.

So far, I am impressed with the picture quality right out of the box and I could actually live with it without calibrating it and that says a lot as I am usually obsessed with calibrating everything. There is no doubt this is the best black level performance I have ever owned and I watched snips of several movies with dark scenes and noted the shadow detail also blew away my Optoma and anything else I have owned.

After about 4 hours, I can already tell you it is staying here, no doubt. In fact, I have already ceiling mounted it a few minutes ago.

Tomorrow is another evening with this fine projector, some minor calibrating (greyscale will come later- at roughly 50 hours) and maybe a full length movie. I will try to post a full review then. I'll also grab a few pictures at that time. Thanks to all who suggested this projector, it is definitely worth the effort.

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post #107 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 09:42 PM
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Yeah, it's very large. The second largest I've owned. The NuVision ProVu P2 is even larger! (If you can imagine)



Would you mind posting a picture of some text? I'm curious how yours came converged.

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post #108 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 10:34 PM
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post #109 of 226 Old 05-14-2013, 10:43 PM
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The newer style JVC chassis is roughly the same length as the NuVision, but about about 2/3 as tall and 2/3 as wide. Roughly as big as the HC-5 but more boxy and a little less imposing.

I don't know if you've seen any of these but here's a picture with the JVC DLA-X3 next to a bunch of other units.



As you can see, the JVCs are fairly large.

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post #110 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post




Would you mind posting a picture of some text? I'm curious how yours came converged.


I'll see what I can do this evening. I'll certainly post some shots of it mounted as well. Give me an idea of text you are familiar with that works well for this purpose and I'll see what I can do.

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post #111 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 06:36 AM
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Here's a good one http://www.avsforum.com/t/889226/official-sony-kds-xxa3000-owners-thread/12690#post_16708421 You can test sharpness in corners and in the center.
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post #112 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 06:42 AM
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This is a good test to check focus uniformity.

http://hometheaterphotos.com/projector2/NEC_pattern_1.jpg

you would need to display it on a PC / Laptop @ 1920 x 1080

enjoy the projector, that's a heck of a bargain for a model that's similar in performance to the expensive VW90 that was out just a few years ago.
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post #113 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dmaven View Post

Do not buy an RS45! Only consider the newer models with the updated lamps (RS46 for instance). The RS45 has a great picture, but the lamp burn out problem is severe and not worth the trouble. The HC-5 is comparable, blacks are not as fantastic, motion is better.

The version 1 lamp that came in the RS40 was a problem. The version 2 lamp that came in the RS45 was pretty good. The version 3 lamp that has been sold as a replacement lamp for the last 15 months has been a good lamp. You don't read about issues with version 3 lamps. All of the B-stock RS45's ship with version 3 lamps. I am still using my version 2 lamp. Over 800 hours on the projector and am still using low lamp with the iris closed down 3/4's of the way. My screen is 0.85 gain and 9' wide. I do gain some brightness because I use an A-lens.

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post #114 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This is a good test to check focus uniformity.

http://hometheaterphotos.com/projector2/NEC_pattern_1.jpg

you would need to display it on a PC / Laptop @ 1920 x 1080

enjoy the projector, that's a heck of a bargain for a model that's similar in performance to the expensive VW90 that was out just a few years ago.

Zombie

I saw you posted that link in the Sharp 30K thread and I used it last night as my HTPC is connected to my projector through my Receiver. I saw no issues at all with focus uniformity on any part of the screen. As I said earlier, not as sharp as my Optoma, but definitely sharp.

What I did notice is that I like viewing PC text better on the HC5. The higher contrast makes the text "pop" more against a white background. I will also say this, but not sure how to phrase it..... there is a lot of DLP-style "pop" to the image from this projector. I watched the beginning of "Nothing to Lose" with Tim Robbins last night. There are bright colors in the titles at the beginning and there was a real deep contrast to the colors that was not there when I re-watched it afterward on the Optoma. I had to turn on the Optoma Brilliant Color (or whatever Optoma calls it) to get the same effect, but that screwed up the colors after the movie came in.

Part of it could be calibration, but there is "something" pleasing there... somehow reminds me of the Christie DLP projector in my nearest cinema (just opened- state of the art projection). Please take this with a grain of salt, but I said something about it reminds me of it, not that it is better, as good as, etc.

Have to be careful people are not posting that I said this PJ is a Christie killer. smile.gif

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post #115 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 09:31 AM
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And by the way, this thing is pretty darn bright. I can't imagine needing any more lumens in 2D- I started with some lights on if the room while setting up and I could have left them on for all but serious movie watching. Haven't seen 3D yet (emitter/glasses should be here by Friday) or calibrated 2D, but it is definitely brighter than my Optoma or the last couple of LCDs I had before that (Epson 1080UB, Mits HC6800).

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post #116 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 09:34 AM
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That might be the effect of proper color saturation. Or CLO (color light output). The separation of RGB elements in this projector's spectre is outstanding.


Here's color separation graph for Optoma HD300X (HD3300):


The same's for all single chip DLPs, I believe. More or less. Some units are better in this regard, like BenQ W7000:


This might be the magical thing about 3chip DLPs everyone talks about. They just have WLO (white light output) = CLO (color light output), which means color saturation might meet the Rec.709 standards. My Sharp XV-Z30000 couldn't.
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post #117 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Thanks to all who suggested this projector, it is definitely worth the effort.

Congrats! Keep your impressions coming. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Where does the JVC fit in there for size ?

I show the Mits being 1.5" wider and 3.5" longer than the JVC's. I care because my hushbox would prefer a shorter PJ but I could handle this with a few modifications.
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The version 1 lamp that came in the RS40 was a problem. The version 2 lamp that came in the RS45 was pretty good. The version 3 lamp that has been sold as a replacement lamp for the last 15 months has been a good lamp. You don't read about issues with version 3 lamps. All of the B-stock RS45's ship with version 3 lamps. I am still using my version 2 lamp. Over 800 hours on the projector and am still using low lamp with the iris closed down 3/4's of the way. My screen is 0.85 gain and 9' wide. I do gain some brightness because I use an A-lens.

Thanks Mike, that is good to know.

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post #118 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 09:55 AM
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Elix - can you show the R709 charts with full saturation tracking down to 25%?

How is the focus uniformity?

any chance you have the L/R 3D patterns? I'd like to see the crosstalk performance since the original HC9000 was beat up a bit from some owners who saw visible crosstalk (similar to the VW90 before they fixed it a bit in VW95).

3D lumens would be appreciated as well, curious to see the light output in 3D. thanks and enjoy the new projector.
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post #119 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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Zombie, I still haven't received it but thanks in advance smile.gif It should arrive this week, finally!
I wouldn't be able to test 3D because I didn't buy original 3D emitter. I decided to go with MV3D kit. I will have to solder an adapter (5 mini din to 3.5mm stereo jack).
Judging by this document the total white luminance of 1 derives from 3 components using these coefficients: EY′= 0.2126ER′+ 0.7152EG′+ 0.0722EB'. For any luminance level these coefficients holds true. You just take different Y values at 100 IRE, 75 IRE, 50 IRE, 25 IRE or whatever IRE and multiply them by 0.2126 for Red, 0.7152 for Green, 0.0722 for Blue. Here I made a little spreadsheet for everyone's use.
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post #120 of 226 Old 05-15-2013, 01:41 PM
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I saw that modification on the cine4home site, I tried it with the HC8000 and didn't have much luck (5 pin mini-din -> 3.5mm stereo). I didn't spend a lot of time on it though, but would be curious to see it work.

A generous fellow member might send in his HC5 to add to the shootout thread. that's what makes this site great, video nerds from around the world uniting for a single cause... biggrin.gif
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