Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 1855 Old 01-28-2013, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I think I found the perfect settings for shadow detail on the JVC RS4810.

I would like some people to try it and see how they feel about it...

Do a custom 2.2

5% = 55
10% = 102
15% = 153
20% = 205
30% = 307
40% = 409
50% = 512
60% = 614
70% = 716
80% = 818
90% = 921
95% = 972

Without measuring the gamma, please just view it for a bit. Everything just looks "right" at these settings for me.

It measures low in gamma, but just feels and looks "correct" (hard to explain)

Let me know what you think.

I tried this and I think it looks pretty good. I was using "normal" (2.2) gamma with the dark level bumped up 4, and I also was experimenting with the "film tone" up a click or 2. I think this new gamma curve looks better. I actually think it makes the brighter scenes pop a bit more than what I was using. The 4 clicks of dark level adjustment (and messing with film tone) was probably more aggressive than I realized, causing the brighter images to "flatten out" a bit. But I'm just guessing.

I'm sticking with your setting now. I'd still like to be able to pull out more shadow detail, but I haven't talked myself into getting a lumagen yet (though I'm working on me).

Just curious though, I know you said this measures low, but how low is it measuring? And is it a flat gamma or is it doing an "S" curve?
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post #902 of 1855 Old 01-28-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

I think I found the perfect settings for shadow detail on the JVC RS4810.

I would like some people to try it and see how they feel about it...

Do a custom 2.2

5% = 55
10% = 102
15% = 153
20% = 205
30% = 307
40% = 409
50% = 512
60% = 614
70% = 716
80% = 818
90% = 921
95% = 972

Without measuring the gamma, please just view it for a bit. Everything just looks "right" at these settings for me.

It measures low in gamma, but just feels and looks "correct" (hard to explain)

Let me know what you think.

I tried this. The image is pleasing. Watched the opening of Captain America; it drew out a little more of the opening castle scene and the black leather coat worn by Schmidt.

Willie
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post #903 of 1855 Old 01-29-2013, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

I tried this and I think it looks pretty good. I was using "normal" (2.2) gamma with the dark level bumped up 4, and I also was experimenting with the "film tone" up a click or 2. I think this new gamma curve looks better. I actually think it makes the brighter scenes pop a bit more than what I was using. The 4 clicks of dark level adjustment (and messing with film tone) was probably more aggressive than I realized, causing the brighter images to "flatten out" a bit. But I'm just guessing.
I'm sticking with your setting now. I'd still like to be able to pull out more shadow detail, but I haven't talked myself into getting a lumagen yet (though I'm working on me).
Just curious though, I know you said this measures low, but how low is it measuring? And is it a flat gamma or is it doing an "S" curve?

Page 6 in the calibration reports in post 42 of the RS66 thread shows what JVC's "Normal" gamma profile looks like:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1444222/new-jvc-dla-rs66-x95/40_40#post_22893101

If my '66 is representative, there aren't any ideal gamma factory presets. You have to go custom to get it right...
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post #904 of 1855 Old 01-29-2013, 01:36 PM
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I am strongly considering this PJ for my yet to be built HT. They broke ground today on the house so in 4 months or so I will be starting to set it up.

Do any of you notice any motion issues with sports for action TV or movie sequences?

I am not a big fan of 3D so what if any I watch will be a real novelty and not important so 2D is vitally important to me. That is why I believe I will be better off with the RS4810 than the Sony 50ES. I also like the idea of CIH simplicity with the lens memories. I would love to be able to go up the JVC ladder to a RS66 but that is not going to happen so I believe the RS4810 is a great compromise for me.
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post #905 of 1855 Old 01-29-2013, 01:51 PM
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If you are sensitive to motion issues, you will be with blu ray movies anyways. But with sports, it watchable for me with the clear motion on low. Not better than DLPs, but for movies its much better in this price range.
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post #906 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 10:38 AM
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I just noticed a weird issue with the e-shift on my RS4810.

What I am seeing is a type of noise or dithering in the image. It is most visible along the borders of high contrast areas. The edges look "alive" as though they are crawling with noise.

This is with e-shift off


And thisis on


These aren't great pictures, but I think it captures the "noisey" edges I'm seeing. And in real time this noise along the edges is shimmering or crawling, not static.

The pictures are with e-shift in FILM mode, dynamic contrast and smoothing at 0 and enhance at 50. The image is solid with e-shift off, and with it on it gets this shimmering noise. On certain patterns it is easily visible from seating distance.

I've been playing with e-shift on and off for a while, and I don't think I was seeing this until recently. What I've also seen is that with e-shift on, if I turn down enhance all the way to 0 this effect mostly disappears.

Is this normal for e-shift and MPC? I know there are differing opinions about the bennefits of e-shift and some think that using the MPC sliders can make the image look to "processed" for their tastes. But I haven't read anything in the forum about e-shift/MPC adding obvious crawling/shimmering like what I'm seeing here. In seeing this type of "crawling noise" along high contrast edges from normal seating distance, I would think that it would have been pointed out here already if it was normal.

Thoughts?
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post #907 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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What is the source Material? I would be willing to try it as well if I have the disk you are using.
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post #908 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 11:15 AM
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I'm curious as well, I'll try it on my RS55 w/ E-shift 1.

I noticed a difference when comparing e-shift 1 (top) and e-shift 2 (bottom), I wonder if this has anything to do with what you're seeing.

e-shift2.jpg

e-shift4.jpg
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post #909 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 11:16 AM
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This picture is from the Spears and Munsil blu ray. It is from from chroma alignment pattern. Once I noticed this, I just looked for a pattern with bright colored lines and this one seems to show it off really easily. Visible from seating distance of about 1.4 screen widths
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post #910 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm curious as well, I'll try it on my RS55 w/ E-shift 1.

I noticed a difference when comparing e-shift 1 (top) and e-shift 2 (bottom), I wonder if this has anything to do with what you're seeing.

e-shift2.jpg

e-shift4.jpg

Yes, I remembered these pictures of yours where the pixel structure looks a little weird. But what I am seeing is literally moving/crawling/shimmering along the edges, and I didn't remember anyone saying they were seeing such a thing.

I have some iPhone video of it (quality os only so-so), but I'm not sure how to go about posting that.
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post #911 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

Yes, I remembered these pictures of yours where the pixel structure looks a little weird. But what I am seeing is literally moving/crawling/shimmering along the edges, and I didn't remember anyone saying they were seeing such a thing.

I have some iPhone video of it (quality os only so-so), but I'm not sure how to go about posting that.

What kind of content are you seeing it with?

you can post the video on youtube and post a link.
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post #912 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 11:40 AM
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my calibrator showed me on a test pattern and he was using a test pattern generator. Mine wasn't crawling but had a distinct yellow shadow/noise to the right of the solid line. It was very noticeable. I thought this was normal???????
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post #913 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 01:19 PM
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e-shift off


e-shift on


In real time, the rough-looking edges you can see here seem to be crawling. It kind of looks like as if this were a special effect and these lines are "electrified" or something.

This is using FILM with enhance only at 50 (dynamic contrast and smoothing at 0). And what I am seeing is easly visable at 1.4 screen widths (my seating distance). Keep in mind, these pictures are somewhat blown out and hiding it somewhat. In reality it is much more obvious. Plus the rough edges are basically moving.

I put in some real movies and it is also visable in normal material, although in that case you have to be lookng for it and it's not as obvious. But I paused on a cityscape scene in The Avengers and I could make out these "crawling edges" on some of the buildings.

If this is how eshift 2 and MPC is supposed to look, then I'd never use it and I can't imagine anyone here being comforatable using it if they were seeing what I was seeing. It would only be worse and more obvious at a closer seating distance where eshift is supposed to add the most benefit. But ultimately I need to find out if my unit has a problem that needs to be addressed or not.

So, from seating distance (not up next to the screen) put in Spears and Munsil and go to the chroma separation pattern. Using eshift in FILM (or any other) and with enhance at the mid-point, do all of colored lines and edges look shimmering/crawling/electrified. What I'm seeing should be very easy to see from seating distsance. Even if you weren't told what to look for you'd see it right away. It would be very obvious to anyone. So if you'r eseeing a stable image without crawling edges, then there's something up with my unit.

Appreciate any feedback you guys can offer.
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post #914 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 01:45 PM
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Actually I think I am seeing the same thing. And I did not see this on the RS55 to my recollection. I've maintained for some time now that I prefer eshift1, To me eshift2 does not look natural and I've resorted to turing it off for the most part. A definite let down for me.

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post #915 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 01:55 PM
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If I wanted to buy a used pj with e-shift 1, would I also get the bad bulb design? Or was there an e-shift 1 model with the new optical setup and new bulb design (and I'm not just talking about the "flapper" bulb to try to fix the problem).
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post #916 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 02:08 PM
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I saw a similar effect on an X55 I saw. They put on an Adele concert BluRay and there are lots of close ups showing her face and the microphone. I kept seeing this effect around the edge of the microphone body (like a kind of moving ringing effect) and just figured that they must have set the MPC settings too high in an attempt at a 'wow' effect (and/or maybe sharpness was ramped up). In any case it wasn't an effect I cared for having previously seen the same disc at home on my X35, but I'd presumed it could be toned down as I don't recall seeing the effect the first time I saw an X55. confused.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #917 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

My old fpj1/rs2 has horrible convergence. I would LOVE to buy a 4810 but want terrific convergence and focus as I sit at 1x screen width. If anyone has a 4810 that qualifies, I would love to buy it. I will make it worth your while.wink.gif

After looking at these photos of e-shift 2, I think I'll change my search to a used RS55. If anyone has a RS55 with excellent convergence and focus, PLEASE pm me. smile.gif

Tom

My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
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post #918 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I saw a similar effect on an X55 I saw. They put on an Adele concert BluRay and there are lots of close ups showing her face and the microphone. I kept seeing this effect around the edge of the microphone body (like a kind of moving ringing effect) and just figured that they must have set the MPC settings too high in an attempt at a 'wow' effect (and/or maybe sharpness was ramped up). In any case it wasn't an effect I cared for having previously seen the same disc at home on my X35, but I'd presumed it could be toned down as I don't recall seeing the effect the first time I saw an X55. confused.gif

Kelvin,

Wow. Yeah, a moving ringing is a good way to describe what I'm seeing. I'd have bet good money that this was some sort of defect because I really can't process how it could go unnoticed by reviewers and the members here doing shoot outs and comparisons. I still have to wonder if what I'm seeing is somehow an exacerbated effect.

I'll try posting video later. I'm trying to do it now from my iPhone and it keeps failing when I try to post it to YouTube.
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post #919 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 03:24 PM
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I don't know if it's something that gets exaggerated with certain content since we watched various other clips of westerns and action films but I particularly noticed on the Adele disc since I'd watched it only the day before at home so it was familiar to me. However, there were half a dozen other guys there and they seemed to be in awe of this projector so I didn't feel I wanted to stick my head above the parapet so to speak (especially as it was a whole day event and we saw and heard some other amazing kit that day, it seemed churlish if not rude to be negative).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #920 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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That is not on mine. Just tried it. I'll post pics in a bit.

Eshift - off



Eshift - on

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post #921 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:09 PM
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@seanbryan -- I just checked and my 4810 doesn't have the shimmering effect either. It looks just like SOWK's image and edges are rock-solid with no crawling.

I'd check your BD player (and any other equipment in the signal path) before you conclude the projector's at fault.
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post #922 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Monahan View Post

After looking at these photos of e-shift 2, I think I'll change my search to a used RS55. If anyone has a RS55 with excellent convergence and focus, PLEASE pm me. smile.gif

Tom
Wow. From a sample size of one (maybe two), and from screen shots on top of that, you've decided that last year's model is a smarter buy? I think I'd go look at an RS48 in person before I came to that conclusion.
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post #923 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:16 PM
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Mode and MPC settings?

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post #924 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Film

17
0
0

Even tried

Film

50
0
0

Both fine.


Tried every MPC mode to try to replicate. Nope... Solid as can be.
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post #925 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

@seanbryan -- I just checked and my 4810 doesn't have the shimmering effect either. It looks just like SOWK's image and edges are rock-solid with no crawling.

I'd check your BD player (and any other equipment in the signal path) before you conclude the projector's at fault.

I'll definitely do more trouble shooting, but in what way would the BD player cause this if the image is completely fine when eshift is off and then gets messy ONLY when the eshift is on?
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post #926 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Film

17
0
0

Even tried

Film

50
0
0

Both fine.


Tried every MPC mode to try to replicate. Nope... Solid as can be.

For me Film 20,0,0 and Darbee 35
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post #927 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:36 PM
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SOWK,

Just to clarify, your seeing it just as clean as your pictures above even with enhance at 50, correct?
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post #928 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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post #929 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

For me Film 20,0,0 and Darbee 35

Blee,

Are you saying that this pattern looks clean and solid for you using film 20,0,0? If so, can you check 50 as well?
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post #930 of 1855 Old 01-30-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

Blee,

Are you saying that this pattern looks clean and solid for you uisng film 20,0,0? If so, can you check 50 as well?
I will later. I may turn it up to 35, but I like it best at 20. Gives me the cleanest image, the extra sharpening really bothers me
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