Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread - Page 57 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread
curttard's Avatar curttard 03:03 PM 01-04-2014
I don't remember seeing a "clear black" setting. I've tried with eshift off entirely, and also in film mode with all settings at 0, and the image still looks crazy grainy to me.

I just feel like I must be doing something really wrong, or the projector is screwed up. I've spent a lot of time with a friend's RS35 and then RS65, and saw none of these issues. The picture smoked that of the HC4000's in every respect, in every type of scene. I know those models have the handpicked stuff, but this is a dramatic difference I'm talking about.
Quote:
JVCs (I have 2) are indeed centered lens projectors; however, I found them not to be as flexible to position them as say Epsons. The main drawback IMO is that the JVCs can't be too high with respect to the screen. I am guessing it is challenging to keep the image geometry correct after a certain angle. Nevertheless, it is still a workable height range.

But if it's centered lens, and I have it at 58" from the ground and level, shouldn't the center of the image be 58" from the ground? Instead, the bottom of the image is maybe 70" from the ground, with the center well into the ceiling. As a result, I have to use an enormous amount of lens shift right from the start, instead of a very small amount as I would expect.

One other thing: In the custom gamma adjustment, if I adjust a particular point an enormous degree in a particular color -- say, cut the red by 100s at 100% -- then the example greyscale at the bottom of the menu window shows that step on the greyscale ramp reflecting that change -- like the 100% step will now be very blue. But when I save the settings and exit, the actual image doesn't seem different -- a 100% white window looks the same as it did before the adjustment. What am I missing?

Feel like I'm going crazy here...

seanbryan's Avatar seanbryan 03:09 PM 01-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I don't remember seeing a "clear black" setting. I've tried with eshift off entirely, and also in film mode with all settings at 0, and the image still looks crazy grainy to me.

I just feel like I must be doing something really wrong, or the projector is screwed up. I've spent a lot of time with a friend's RS35 and then RS65, and saw none of these issues. The picture smoked that of the HC4000's in every respect, in every type of scene. I know those models have the handpicked stuff, but this is a dramatic difference I'm talking about.
But if it's centered lens, and I have it at 58" from the ground and level, shouldn't the center of the image be 58" from the ground? Instead, the bottom of the image is maybe 70" from the ground, with the center well into the ceiling.

One other thing: In the custom gamma adjustment, if I adjust a particular point an enormous degree in a particular color -- say, cut the red by 100s at 100% -- then the example greyscale at the bottom of the menu window shows that step on the greyscale ramp reflecting that change -- like the 100% step will now be very blue. But when I save the settings and exit, the actual image doesn't seem different -- a 100% white window looks the same as it did before the adjustment. What am I missing?

Feel like I'm going crazy here...

Oops, my apologies about the clear black suggestion. I thought you had the 4910 not the 4810. I need to pay more attention. Still, for grain/noise issues I'd take a hard look at what MPC mode and slider settings are being used.
curttard's Avatar curttard 10:33 PM 01-06-2014
I'm using the Film mode with all settings at 0.

Am I crazy or is there no Sharpness control of any kind on the 4810? At least not with eshift off?
curttard's Avatar curttard 09:31 PM 01-08-2014
I've now taken measurements with a brand new i1 display pro (3) as well as my older i1 display LT, with ColorHCFR and Calman, and both meters in both programs show gamma of 1.5 (for a preset of 2.2) to 1.8 (for preset of 2.6). What the hell? It certainly doesn't look like the gamma is anywhere near that bad, and how on earth could it be so terrible?

And the killer is I don't know if the measurements are accurate. Do I know what these movies "should" look like? Beats me.

Also, if I'm using the custom gamma controls to fix the gamma, is there any reason to bother with the color temperature controls? I.e., is there a reason to adjust greyscale with the basic RGB gains and offsets, or should I just adjust them individually for each point on the scale in the gamma adjustment screen?
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 08:59 AM 01-09-2014
How are you placing your meter? How bright/dim is your room? How far away you are taking measurements?
curttard's Avatar curttard 09:48 AM 01-09-2014
Meter is on tripod in front of the screen, centered, as close as I can get it with a tilt to avoid the shadow. Getting around 14 ftL. Room is a total batcave, no light whatsoever, front half of the room is velvet and rear half is black felt.
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 10:51 AM 01-09-2014
You setup is optimal. Can you share your calibration graphs/reports? is it mainly flat at 1.5, or is it going all over the place? My JVC 4810 is still in a box. I need to finish up my setup. However, if I recall correctly (I calibrated it before moving down to FLA) the unit gave me a pretty steady curve. I used my radiance xe to fine tune just a few spots.
curttard's Avatar curttard 12:01 PM 01-09-2014
Yes, tonight I'll reset it to out of box settings and post the charts. I was using Natural picture, 6500 color temp, and 2.2 gamma to start. I'll be happy to start with whichever settings you'd like.
curttard's Avatar curttard 08:44 PM 01-09-2014
Here they are. Pic mode Natural, color mode Standard, color temp 6500k, gamma 2.3, all controls at 0, NR all at 0, MPC mode Film with all settings at 0:




curttard's Avatar curttard 09:32 PM 01-09-2014
It seems like the only way for me to get a gamma of 2.2 is to dramatically lower every point on the Custom Gamma curve, which drastically dims my image. It almost seems like everything is working in reverse -- the gamma of 1.5 looks pretty good, nice pop and contrast, while 2.2 is just across-the-board dark and looks like crap. Shouldn't the lower gamma be the "flatter" one?

Also, using the 6500k or 7000k color temp as recommended in the thread, the only way to get a good RGB at 100% is to go with a red gain of -37 and green gain of -29 or thereabouts. Blue stays maxed out at 0. Again: What the hell??? My best result at 100% was with the preset of 8500K, and this actually also made the gamma much closer to 2.2 across the board, although unsurprisingly red was low for the top half of the greyscale, so I'll probably use 8500K as my starting point for my next attempt at calibrating. But it just seems weird, almost like something's off with the lamp or something. Why are my out of the box settings so wildly out of whack with everyone else who has posted in this thread over the past 13 months or so?

I'm going nuts here, I've wanted a JVC for years and now I've had one for over a week and still haven't enjoyed a movie because I can't get it right.
StevenC56's Avatar StevenC56 09:34 PM 01-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

It seems like the only way for me to get a gamma of 2.2 is to dramatically lower every point on the Custom Gamma curve, which drastically dims my image. It almost seems like everything is working in reverse -- the gamma of 1.5 looks pretty good, nice pop and contrast, while 2.2 is just across-the-board dark and looks like crap. Shouldn't the lower gamma be the "flatter" one?

I'm going nuts here, I've wanted a JVC for years and now I've had one for over a week and still haven't enjoyed a movie because I can't get it right.

What was the reason you went with last years model?
curttard's Avatar curttard 10:15 PM 01-09-2014
Cost.
StevenC56's Avatar StevenC56 10:50 PM 01-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Cost.
I figured the 4910 would have been less at the advanced sale prices.
curttard's Avatar curttard 07:16 AM 01-10-2014
4910 was around $4500 or so iirc at pre-order price from AVS. This 4810 was a B-stock, also from AVS, for $2750.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 07:23 AM 01-10-2014
Deleted.
StevenC56's Avatar StevenC56 08:15 AM 01-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

4910 was around $4500 or so iirc at pre-order price from AVS. This 4810 was a B-stock, also from AVS, for $2750.

OK-Understood. Didn't know your 4810 was B stock unit.
curttard's Avatar curttard 12:43 PM 01-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

You can't fix the JVC's slight black crush without washing out the image.

My biggest pet peave of the JVC line.

Set it to the gamma you like and leave it.

I've put in countless hours trying to pull out the shadows, only to find out it looks great in certain scenes and totally destroys others.


I have a lot of real world pics that the JVC struggles at:

Here's 2



You "should" be able to see the v shaped lapell on bonds right side (your left)

*** below pic is overexposed to show the detail ***







You "should" be able to see the individual church pews. Not on the JVC... Lol.

*** below pic is overexposed to show the detail ***



Toe: does the Lumagen allow you to create a gamma point at 1% or less?

If so make sure that is 2.22 or just under. That may not mess with the image enough to screw up the rest.





Just thought I'd follow up on this ancient post :P

The JVC doesn't do as bad as you maybe think there. Here are the JVC pics you posted, followed by actual framegrabs from the bluray:

JVC:



Bluray frame:

casino_zpsa1233514.jpg


JVC:



Bluray frame:

incred_zps0c7cc6d4.jpg



It doesn't look to me like you're "supposed" to be seeing much more if any at all than the JVC is showing.
rhale64L7's Avatar rhale64L7 05:55 PM 01-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Just thought I'd follow up on this ancient post :P

The JVC doesn't do as bad as you maybe think there. Here are the JVC pics you posted, followed by actual framegrabs from the bluray:

JVC:



Bluray frame:

casino_zpsa1233514.jpg


JVC:



Bluray frame:

incred_zps0c7cc6d4.jpg



It doesn't look to me like you're "supposed" to be seeing much more if any at all than the JVC is showing.
wow on my phone the images look almost dead on identical.
curttard's Avatar curttard 06:11 PM 01-12-2014
They look pretty much identical on my (calibrated) laptop as well. At least in terms of detail in the dark areas.
rhale64L7's Avatar rhale64L7 08:31 PM 01-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

They look pretty much identical on my (calibrated) laptop as well. At least in terms of detail in the dark areas.

Yes in the dark areas on my phone looks about identical.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 09:26 PM 01-12-2014
Deleted.

Sorry trying to post in all the JVC threads last night and clicked and pasted in wrong thread.
ScottJ's Avatar ScottJ 01:04 AM 01-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Additional Info:

· The update will require a Windows computer (Has been tested with Windows 7).
· The computer will need to have an RS232 Serial connection.
· If the computer does not have an RS232 Serial connection, then a USB>RS232 Serial Adaptor will need to be purchased.
· You will need an RS232 Null Modem Cross Cable.
. Microsoft .NET framework program may need to be updated.

Hopefully the update will be released this week.

This thread is for the year-old 4810. I assume this doesn't apply.
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 10:09 AM 01-13-2014
I have always wondered about claims like these ones. I don't have access to a commercial reference projector or TV for that matter. What exactly am supposed to see when properly calibrating my displays is to me a best educated guess scenario. The latter premise is of course after all settings have been mathematically calibrated according to calibration guidelines and software. Images you see in forums like the ones posted have no meaning since the images are displayed on computer displays, phones or tablest which more than likely aren't calibrated.
I have seen reviews where verbal descriptions of what you are supposed to see are next to screen shots. Again, words such as barely, almost, just about, etc are used which really don't quantify well the results. A printed (text and screen shots) corroborated guide would be IMO the best way for DIY people to really compare their results.
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 10:25 AM 01-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Here they are. Pic mode Natural, color mode Standard, color temp 6500k, gamma 2.3, all controls at 0, NR all at 0, MPC mode Film with all settings at 0:




I think the difference between the 4810 and 4910 has nothing to do with you are reporting. Here are few observations:
Loosing a bit of light to get the proper gamma (and overall calibration) is expected when you calibrate PJs. It is really a trade-off. How much light are you willing to compromise to obtain accurate colors and gamma is up to you. If you have a completely light controlled room as you have stated, it should not be an issue. BTW, what kind of screen do you have? please specify the model and gain.
Your RGB balance is OK for a unit not calibrated and so is your gamma. I wish the latter would be a bit flatter around 2, but it only means you'll have to spend more time adjusting it.

First, adjust your brightness and contrast. This first step is probably the most important of all. Make sure to use a good set of patterns and to go back and forth until you get them as perfect as possible. I like the flashing white and black bars. It gives me a better idea of where I am, and where I need to go.
Second, adjust your RGB values. You should expect to be within 2% of ideal values. (post your results at this point if you don't mind).
Recheck your Brightness and Contrast and adjust if necessary. You may have to readjust your RGB values again if you adjust your brightness and contrast.
Third, adjust the gamma. Take your time. Do small changes. The gamma at very low and high stimulus are very sensitive.
Finally adjust your color using first your main color controls. Then, use your color management.

Post results.
curttard's Avatar curttard 08:10 PM 01-13-2014
Not sure what you mean about 4810 vs 4910, I never mentioned the 4910. I got a very good greyscale and gamma by using a color temp (I forget which, maybe 8000k) that gave me a good 100% and using the RGB gains to get that dead-on, then using the custom gamma to tweak every other point on the greyscale. But I lost a lot of light and am now down to 10 ftL with the iris at -9. It's a unity gain white screen.
isisyodin's Avatar isisyodin 09:04 PM 01-13-2014
Someone on a previous post mentioned it. Never mind.
Excellent news about your results. 10Ft/L is not that bad. My older RS55 was about the same. Your call is now what will make you happier: a dimmer but balanced image or a brighter not so balanced image. JVCs are well known for having a great picture but always a tad dim; reason why JVCs should me paired up with a high gain screen. I use a 1.3 gain 92" screen. No complaints here.
curttard's Avatar curttard 10:41 PM 01-13-2014
From what Zombie10k reported in his exhaustive comparisons, the JVCs should be brighter than the Epson 5030 in 2D, with only the Sonys being brighter as far as higher end projectors go. Earlier in this thread it seemed like most who measured actually got more lumens once they were calibrated. It seems most in the JVC threads are running with iris at -15 as well. I'm a little shy of 14' back on a 115" screen and only getting 10ftL on a brand new lamp with the iris at -9; that seems a little off to me. FWIW, Projector Central says 26ftL, although that would be in High lamp maybe? But obviously switching to High would certainly not come close to more than doubling my ftL in any case.
curlyjive's Avatar curlyjive 10:53 AM 01-15-2014
I'm thinking about replacing my RS40 with a Bstock 4810 if they become available in the coming months.

The one issue that concerns me from reading this thread and the AVFORUM review is the undersaturation issue, especially green, that cannot be fixed with the CMS. AVFORUM received replacement from JVC that was fine, and JVC claimed it was not a firmware issue, but a bad sample.

Questions:

1) How prevalent is this issue really?

2) Is eshift2 as blurred looking with up close text as some of the screenshots in this thread indicate...as opposed to shift1?

3) Has any firmware release fixed any major issues?

4) Anything else to be aware of?

5) Do you feel the RS4810 is a worthwhile update over the RS40? My main concern is reliability of those quirky units and the lowering release value it will have down the road.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 11:02 AM 01-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

I'm thinking about replacing my RS40 with a Bstock 4810 if they become available in the coming months.

The one issue that concerns me from reading this thread and the AVFORUM review is the undersaturation issue, especially green, that cannot be fixed with the CMS. AVFORUM received replacement from JVC that was fine, and JVC claimed it was not a firmware issue, but a bad sample.

Questions:

1) How prevalent is this issue really?

2) Is eshift2 as blurred looking with up close text as some of the screenshots in this thread indicate...as opposed to shift1?

3) Has any firmware release fixed any major issues?

4) Anything else to be aware of?

5) Do you feel the RS4810 is a worthwhile update over the RS40? My main concern is reliability of those quirky units and the lowering release value it will have down the road.


1. Is an issue that 99.9% of buyers would not know the difference if they did not have a way to measure it.

2. Unless you plan to highly magnify the image, I doubt you will not be able to tell the difference.

3. The 4810's were relatively trouble free, so if it is not broke, don't try to fix.

4. Would consider the 4910 with the dynamic iris.

5. Yes and the 4810's reliability is much higher than the 40's.
curlyjive's Avatar curlyjive 11:14 AM 01-15-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

1. Is an issue that 99.9% of buyers would not know the difference if they did not have a way to measure it.

2. Unless you plan to highly magnify the image, I doubt you will not be able to tell the difference.

3. The 4810's were relatively trouble free, so if it is not broke, don't try to fix.

4. Would consider the 4910 with the dynamic iris.

5. Yes and the 4810's reliability is much higher than the 40's.


1) I do have an i1Pro and calman and would be measuring and calibrating. Now, it may not present itself as a very noticeable on screen issue, other than measurements, so that is a factor as well. Still I am trying to get to the bottom of whether this is something most units are affected by. My RS40 measures very well (at least at 75% Stimulus), so I wonder if I would actually see the issue.

2) Good

3) Good

4) I'm not a fan of dynamic irises. If an Iris didn't bother me, I'd also keep an eye out for a used Sony 95ES as they were well regarded and apparently sony will transfer there warranty from owner to owner.

And I'm pretty stuck on going Bstock because you get a much better value, thee is little year to year variation in most cases, you don't take a HUGE depreciation hit, and you still get a full warranty! Same reason I refuse to buy a brand new car and go with pre-certified cars that have a warranty.

5) That is good to know. It also seems that the out of the box RGB measurements show much more red in the these lamps. I have to pull green and blue down like 40-50 clicks on my RS 40 (2 bulbs) in order to get good greyscale tracking. Having to pull much less green out would be a huge benefit to brightness. I realize there is lamp to lamp variance, but this seems to be a common observation for both respective models.
Tags: Jvc , Jvc America , Jvc Dla Rs4810 3d Home Theater Projector
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