Purchasing Projector - Runco? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello

I am about to purchase a new projector and have been looking at several models. I am looking at the Runco 650i and 750i. Does anyone have any opinions about this line or comparisons / thoughts on alternatives to the Runco 750i. I've seen the projector in action and it is quite impressive. My budget is sub 10k. throw distance approx. 20 feet and the screen is 120" diag.

The sales guy at the local Runco dealer did quite a sales job on me and I just want to verify his rave reviews with the general unbiased A/V community.

Any opinions/suggestions would be helpful.

Thank you.
grewper
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post #2 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 06:17 AM
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The thing to bear in mind with LED models is that they are based on similar base engines. Runco Q750/650, Digital projection Cine LED and Vivtek H9080 all use the Delta engine. The Sim2 Mico 40/50/60 and Tru Vue Vango use the Chilin engine. The main difference being the Chilin engine uses liquid cooling and the LEDs can be driven harder = more light output.
There is also the newer Sim2 M150 which is brighter (supposedly 1000 lumens) and also 3D but has a retail around $28k. The Digital Projection dVision 35 is similar in brightness to the M150 and again retails for $35k (I think). Not sure what engine they are using and out of budget anyway.
The Tru Vue Vango is being sold through AVscience with the EE color processing box, the price used to be close to what you have set as your budget but I would recommend contacting them to see what they can offer.
With LEDs, the color is directly proportional to the light output so if you drive the LEDs harder the colors tend to be over-saturated. The Truvue EE color processing box provides various settings to help in various lighting conditions to compensate. At least that is how I understand it so it should offer some value to the bundle they are selling.

The more basic consideration is where what kind of space you would be putting the projector in. Now I am just going on what other people have said here but the Delta engine models are probably only going to work well on 100" or less screens in a light controlled room. I saw the M150 on a 110" screen with a little ambient light and it looked pretty good but far better with the lights off. If there is going to be some ambient light then I would plan carefully and potentially look at brighter bulb based models.
JapanDave uses a 14' curved screen with the Vango, not sure what settings/gain screen he used to accomplish that but it obviously is possible:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1283827/japandave-dedicated-theater-build/300

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post #3 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grewper1 View Post

Hello
I am about to purchase a new projector and have been looking at several models. I am looking at the Runco 650i and 750i. Does anyone have any opinions about this line or comparisons / thoughts on alternatives to the Runco 750i. I've seen the projector in action and it is quite impressive. My budget is sub 10k. throw distance approx. 20 feet and the screen is 120" diag.
The sales guy at the local Runco dealer did quite a sales job on me and I just want to verify his rave reviews with the general unbiased A/V community.
Any opinions/suggestions would be helpful.
Thank you.
grewper
I really like the 750i, but be aware there are some drawbacks to these units. Make sure you don't see RBE on the darker scene's during demo. I would match it up with a HP screen and place the projector just above eye level to get some brightness out of it.
Those Runco's should be a bit higher than 1/2 of your budget. Dealer getting rid of old stock.
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post #4 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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FWIW...
Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

With LEDs, the color is directly proportional to the light output so if you drive the LEDs harder the colors tend to be over-saturated.

Actually the LEDs used in these are just inherently oversaturated, they (each) have a fixed wavelength of light they output and it's a very narrow band. How hard you drive them doesn't really matter, LEDs aren't like normal lightbulbs that change their color as you drive them harder (hotter), they are what they are.
Quote:
The Truvue EE color processing box provides various settings to help in various lighting conditions to compensate. At least that is how I understand it so it should offer some value to the bundle they are selling.

The main purpose of the EE box is to remap smaller gamuts (BT.709/SMPTE-C used on consumer video) to larger ones (the native gamut of an LED projector) "smartly" so as to allow the benefit of the wider gamut for things that should be very saturated while not doing bad things to colors (like skin tones) that would look wrong with a normal linear remapping. It's also got some presets that do different remappings that can supposedly "compensate" for different ambient lighting conditions.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #5 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for all the feedback guys. I demo'd this pj on the dark knight blue ray and the blacks looked pretty good. I just want to do my due diligence on the unit before dropping this kind of cash on a projector. I've never spent this much money on a projector before. I've done some research on the sim2 LED models and they're pretty pricey.
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post #6 of 17 Old 09-26-2012, 07:44 PM
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It has been a while since I saw the Runco, but my impression was that it threw an excellent picture. I liked the fact that with virtually a push of the button you could use the larger gamut for richer, more saturated colors or if you are a "purist" you can drop back to Rec. 709 settings.

My concerns would be like the others have mentioned: screen size and light output...and if you have any issues with RBE.

The first can be calculated and for the second I recommend either watching a fast moving black and white movie (like Memento) or fast scrolling white credits. If you don't see any weird flashes of color then don't worry.

Personally, if I had the budget and the space I would pick the Runco.

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post #7 of 17 Old 09-30-2012, 08:46 AM
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I have seen a few projectors over the past month, and the 750i was easily the best picture I saw in my price range, which is about the same as yours. I was close to pulling the trigger, but a couple of things held me back.

First and most importantly, and this sounds like it may be an issue for you, is the light output. From what I have heard and read, you should not be using the pj on screens much larger than 100 inches diagonal. At 120, you are pushing things to the limit. On a 100 inch screen the image looked terrific. I am starting from scratch and need to build a room and buy a screen, so I am very flexible. I would however like about a 120 inch screen.

A second less important factor for me is the 750i does not do 3D. While not critical, if I am spending all this money on everything, it would be nice to have the ability to watch 3D on occasion.

I haven't seen the Sim2 M150 but it sounds like it has exactly what I would want. Unfortunately its double what I am willing to spend, and it sounds like its too pricey for you. Maybe one of their lower end models (eg M50) might be an alternative.

If you are a Runco fan, the x200i should be coming out around now, and while the list price is a fair bit over your target (15K) , hopefully you could get one for just a couple thousand over your target price. That however might not be what you want since its is not LED, and you are paying for 3D. Based on the press releases , it should be a good fit with your screen size. I will be looking at that one when I can.
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post #8 of 17 Old 09-30-2012, 03:19 PM
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Have you demoed the Tru Vue Vango? Its cheaper than most LEDs and should be able to handle 120" (at least by what JapanDave has achieved). I did see the X200i at CEDIA, it was pretty good but not hugely different from single-chip DLPs they were made several years ago. Certainly doesn't do colour like an LED

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post #9 of 17 Old 10-01-2012, 08:25 PM
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yeah, i think so, I demo'd this pj on the dark knight blue ray and the blacks looked pretty good. I just want to do my due diligence on the unit before dropping this kind of cash on a projector. i like it very much .91.jpgsmile.gif
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-04-2012, 09:17 AM
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If you like the Runco and like the dealer, I'd suggest you buy it. If the Dark Knight looked good, how can you go wrong? I've seen the 750i selling for a lot less than its list price. As suggested in an earlier post, you may want to shop around or try to bargain with your original dealer.

I demoed the 750i, and really loved it. But bought the Vango. I decided I needed more light than the 750i provided, even on my High Power screen. Football games (and most other sports) really come to life with a brighter projector.

I'm a hater of projector noise. One other reason I bought the Vango was I thought the 750i was too loud, but it turns out the Vango can also be way too loud when being driven by an image with very bright areas. The 750i has fan noise and power supply noise. The Vango has mostly power supply noise. When I first turn on the Vango, I can hear it from 30 feet away during its startup. Fortunately this is because it is showing a very bright image. During normal play back I can usually ignore its projector noise. With the 750i, I always heard its fans. [Disclaimer: I should mention that nine out of 10 people who visit my home do not think the Vango is anywhere near as loud as I do. My wife thinks I'm nuts - doesn't understand why I cannot hear her but can hear the projector from 30 feet.]
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-31-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for the reply. So I just acquired the Runco Q750i. I have some obvious questions if you dont mind giving me your advice on -

- Which AV Cables should I use with this projector? Obviously high quality HDMI cables are required. Which ones are the best out there that you recommend with this projector:
- What kind of Blu-Ray player is ideal to pair with this projector?
- I want to mount this projector to the ceiling, however I am a little constrained on the budget. Should I skimp out on the installer or get a qualified Runco dealer to install? Which mount should I use? Runco standard mount or a compatible certified Runco mount such as a Chief mount...

Thanks
Grewper
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-31-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grewper1 View Post

Thanks a lot for the reply. So I just acquired the Runco Q750i. I have some obvious questions if you dont mind giving me your advice on -
- Which AV Cables should I use with this projector? Obviously high quality HDMI cables are required. Which ones are the best out there that you recommend with this projector:
- What kind of Blu-Ray player is ideal to pair with this projector?
- I want to mount this projector to the ceiling, however I am a little constrained on the budget. Should I skimp out on the installer or get a qualified Runco dealer to install? Which mount should I use? Runco standard mount or a compatible certified Runco mount such as a Chief mount...
Thanks
Grewper

Congratulations on the projector. You made a good choice.
Use the Chief mount and do it your self.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ great place for cables
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-103/ latest and greatest.
What other gear do you have? What screen did you go with?
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-01-2012, 04:41 AM
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Yeah, don't confuse "expensive" with "high quality". It's imperative to use high quality (ie well constructed, certified) HDMI cables, but it really doesn't cost a lot to get such cables. I ran Monoprice cables for a while and they were fine. They worked great when it was just my source devices connected directly to my projector. But as I made my HDMI setup more complicated (added an AVM50V 3D and later a Darbee Darblet) I found that those cables caused handshaking issues so I ended up replacing them with BJC cables and it cleared everything up.

One other suggestion, keep your HDMI cables at least 6ft. I made the mistake of buying some really short ones and handshaking didn't work worth a crap with those, I've seen both Anthem and Lumagen recommend a minimum length of 6ft, so save yourself some trouble and keep the cables as short as possible but at least 6ft long.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #14 of 17 Old 11-01-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Yeah, don't confuse "expensive" with "high quality". It's imperative to use high quality (ie well constructed, certified) HDMI cables, but it really doesn't cost a lot to get such cables. I ran Monoprice cables for a while and they were fine. They worked great when it was just my source devices connected directly to my projector. But as I made my HDMI setup more complicated (added an AVM50V 3D and later a Darbee Darblet) I found that those cables caused handshaking issues so I ended up replacing them with BJC cables and it cleared everything up.
One other suggestion, keep your HDMI cables at least 6ft. I made the mistake of buying some really short ones and handshaking didn't work worth a crap with those, I've seen both Anthem and Lumagen recommend a minimum length of 6ft, so save yourself some trouble and keep the cables as short as possible but at least 6ft long.

Good advice on the cable length. Most devices are equalized for 6' or longer HDMI cables. That is why you can run into problems using shorter cables.

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post #15 of 17 Old 11-07-2012, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you.

I have a VUTEC screen that is eight feet wide. I know its a little big for the Runco, but I'm not ready to re-invest in the screen yet. I am looking to replace my old Pioneer Elite receiver which doesn't even have HDMI inputs, but currently looking at what the market has to offer in high quality receivers or pre/amps.

I also have 604 S3 B&W Tower Speakers with a LCR6 Center and DS6 Sides. I may be looking to replace those too in the near future.

How about yourself?
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post #16 of 17 Old 11-07-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you find the Darbee Darblet useful even with the video processor inside the Q750i?
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post #17 of 17 Old 11-07-2012, 03:20 PM
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What the Darblet does is not available on the video processor of the Q750i.
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