Looking for direction on upgrade from RS20 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-01-2012, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I just departed with my beloved RS20. She has been flawless but like everyone else, I just got the itch for an upgrade. Sadly I had ordered an RS55 from my dealer to replace it, and after agreeing on a price (which was very good, apparently too good), I am getting jacked around. So I am looking for something else.

My biggest problem is brightness. I am firing from 18' 6" with a VC lens on a 125" diagonal screen (2.35). Screen gain about 1.1. I'm at the max end of the throw range so obviously brightness is taking a hit.
The theater is a dedicated room with blue carpet and black ceiling with black and blue fabric covered walls. Zero ambient light.

My RS20 had great convergence and uniformity and was calibrated really well. I definitely want to see a noticeable improvement with this new projector. 3d has zero influence on me, but my daughter wouldn't mind it. smile.gif

Here is what I'm looking at.

Mitsubishi HC9000
JVC - B stock RS45
JVC - pre owned RS60

I love the placement flexibility of the Mits. The lens shift would allow me to mount the pj in my sofit instead of the drop hushbox protruding from below my sofit with my 20. That would really clean up the back of the room. I'm nervous about the black level compared to my RS20. I'm also really confused about the brightness. Most reviews stated it was brighter than the RS40-45, yet on projector calculator when I put distance and screen size it lists 7-8 lumens?????????????

I also love the idea of the pre owned RS60 but have heard it's the dimmest of the JVC projectors? This one comes with the 002 and 003 lamp. Did that help with the brightness any, or just lamp life? The calibration sheet on this one shows 768 lumens at mid zoom which seems on par with the RS20, not nearly as dim as others have made it out to be??????

* I'd love to check out the VW95 but it just won't work in my setup based on lens throw, so that one's out.

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post #2 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 05:29 AM
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I'm going from a HD350 (RS10) to an X30(RS45) and IMHO this is the minimum upgrade I could go for (most bang for buck I hope). As you are starting from a higher level with the RS20, I would suggest that you'd need to aim higher than an RS45 yourself. The contrast is similar and you lose the CMS (though the RS45 isn't so oversaturated as the RS10 - I have a Mini3D myself BTW). You might gain some sharpness and you'll lose the MIC issue that we both have (not really bothered me as I don't watch sport on mine where it seems more noticeable). I'm not considering 3D myself, so off my radar as it gives me a headache, so others will have to speak up on that score.

Apart from the brightness issues, you would get some increase in contrast with the RS60 though probably not any more brightness than the RS20. The lamp issue won't give you more brightness per see, just that they don't dim as fast (hopefully). Have you contacted AVS with a preorder deal for the X55 (RS56?) to see if that's even close to you original dealer's price?

Worth doing a search on CIne4home.de website (using a translator if you don't speak/read German) as they have measured the lumens and contrast at different zoom, iris and lamp power for the HD750 (=RS20) and the later X70 (=RS60) for you to compare. If I get time later I'll find them and put a link back in here. From their figures in my long throw (min zoom) setup I expect to virtually double my on/off contrast RS10 to RS45 (especially as the iris is now well open on my RS10 which reduces contrast further), so I hope this is noticeable. You'll need to check the numbers yourself to see how much of a jump your set up might give.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #3 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 12:46 PM
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Have you considered a Hipower or other higher-gain screen?

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post #4 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 01:36 PM
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If you're looking for brightness, I second that suggestion for considering a screen upgrade to an HP. Of course, you'll want to keep the PJ as centered on the screen as possible, so forget the sofit.

Personally, I'd stay away from either of the last generation JVCs because of the lamp issues. Even the 002 bulbs explode or die after 400-500 hours and the jury is still out on the 003 flapper lamps. Why take the chance? Consider that JVC changed the lamp and power supply in their upcoming models. If I were you, I'd get in on a pre-order RS4810 from AVS and wait three months for it to show up. It's not going to be any less bright than what you were used too, probably brighter (someone else can chime in on this).

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post #5 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

If you're looking for brightness, I second that suggestion for considering a screen upgrade to an HP. Of course, you'll want to keep the PJ as centered on the screen as possible, so forget the sofit.
Personally, I'd stay away from either of the last generation JVCs because of the lamp issues. Even the 002 bulbs explode or die after 400-500 hours and the jury is still out on the 003 flapper lamps. Why take the chance? Consider that JVC changed the lamp and power supply in their upcoming models. If I were you, I'd get in on a pre-order RS4810 from AVS and wait three months for it to show up. It's not going to be any less bright than what you were used too, probably brighter (someone else can chime in on this).

My daughter has been watching the projector all day today, so I am probably getting close to the 500 hour mark on my 002 version lamp. Did replace another JVC lamp for a customer today. That makes five for me in the last year. As for brightness, the 4810 is going to be brighter than your RS20. I would guess 25% to 30% brighter. You also gain the E-shift. I think the 4810 would be the projector that I would shoot for, coming from a RS20.

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post #6 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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1) I can't change screen, it's AT. No way around it.

2) I don't know if I can wait till December for the 4810. smile.gif I do love the specs on it, but who's to say it won't be another bulb fiasco or something new on them this year. JVC hasn't had the best QC rep the last few years.

I think I might end up pulling the trigger on the HC9000 and calling it a day until laser.

I really wish I could find someone who has done a side by side with a 20 and HC9000, or even a similar spec'd JVC.

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post #7 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 04:25 PM
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I haven't compared them,but a good friend did. He owned the RS45 and bought the Mits 9000 afterwards. His comments were the mits 9000 is little brighter than the RS45. It also appeared a tad sharper. In the end he parted with the mits 9000 simply because it could not match the contrast/black levels of the RS45. He returned to the RS45 and now owns the RS55, which he says is even better.
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joesyah View Post

I haven't compared them,but a good friend did. He owned the RS45 and bought the Mits 9000 afterwards. His comments were the mits 9000 is little brighter than the RS45. It also appeared a tad sharper. In the end he parted with the mits 9000 simply because it could not match the contrast/black levels of the RS45. He returned to the RS45 and now owns the RS55, which he says is even better.

I really like the idea of the 55 but just can't justify it at this point in the game. I'm looking for something at a little less price point until laser, etc.

I really don't think there are many projectors that can compete with the JVC's in the black level dept. That's kind of their claim to fame. I personally would deal with a hair less BL and a projector that doesn't need a new bulb every 300 hours (RS40/45), or one that puts out a third the lumens it's advertised at (RS50/60).
Don't get me wrong, I love JVC, but have been kind of soured on them as of late. I want to want another one, but find myself leaning elsewhere.

Wish I could find a pre owned RS35. smile.gif

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post #9 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 08:43 PM
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The 4810 is the JVC to watch this year for it's features / price point. e-shift 1 was a great feature and the early previews indicate that the e-shift 2 is going to be noticeably better.

JVC is banking on those new lamps. Based on other projectors with a similar style DC lamp, they should perform well over a period of time.
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post #10 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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I've got a RS40 with anamorphic lens 13 feet back in a blacked out room shooting onto a Focupix fixed frame 125" 2.35 screen which has a rated gain of 1.5 but reported as a little lower by some. My brightness is fine but I wouldn't want any less brightness as lamp is a 003 version with just a little over a hundred hours and I set iris anywhere from -8 to -12.

I would definitely get a RS4810 with the improved light path, lamp, and power supply. The projector comes with a 3 year warranty and the lamp is under warranty for 1 year or 1,000 hours. AV Science has a great preorder price and you will also get eshift2.

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post #11 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The 4810 is the JVC to watch this year for it's features / price point. e-shift 1 was a great feature and the early previews indicate that the e-shift 2 is going to be noticeably better.
JVC is banking on those new lamps. Based on other projectors with a similar style DC lamp, they should perform well over a period of time.

Sigh. You guys are killing me. Let me go into cryrogenic sleep and wake up a couple months from now. smile.gif

Just to remind you guys though; each year JVC projectors have been hyped as the cats meow, and look at what has transpired. JVC has screwed the early adopters the last few iterations. Who's saying this year will be any different? To be safe, I'd really be waiting about 6 months, for all the problems to rear their ugly head.

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post #12 of 20 Old 10-02-2012, 09:37 PM
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Sigh. You guys are killing me. Let me go into cryrogenic sleep and wake up a couple months from now. smile.gif

Just to remind you guys though; each year JVC projectors have been hyped as the cats meow, and look at what has transpired. JVC has screwed the early adopters the last few iterations. Who's saying this year will be any different? To be safe, I'd really be waiting about 6 months, for all the problems to rear their ugly head.

I don't need to be reminded, I owned an RS40, RS50 and now the RS55. smile.gif The RS55 was a noticeable improvement over the RS50. It was brighter and I am now a solid fan of the e-shift. This is a great projector, my favorite of the JVC's so far.

I like jumping in early and seeing what's going on with these new models. This is JVC's third attempt at this chassis, they've had quite a bit of time to hear the cheers and jeers over the last 2 years. The lamp change alone is a big deal. The length of the warranty is a statement that they finally have some confidence with the lamps.

I certainly understand the hesitation. The good news is, there's plenty of folks who dive in early and will have detailed reports. Many of these folks are previous JVC owners as well.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-03-2012, 03:16 PM
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I've had my RS-20 for a while now (2500+ hours usage in total)... jumped on the pre-buy bandwagon when it was announced... been itching to upgrade but frankly nothing I've personally seen or heard about the newer JVC models has convinced me that any of them would be a significant upgrade over what I see.

Now that I've added a Lumagen XS and 125 color matrix calibration (thanks to Chromapure and a Display 3 pro) the picture is better than ever (onto a 120" diagonal AT 2:35 screen). I am curious about the 4810 or 56 however... but I will wait and see what others experiences are with them before testing the upgrade waters again.
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post #14 of 20 Old 10-03-2012, 03:31 PM
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I actually just bought an RS20 because none of the new offerings interested me. Yes, price was an issue, but I figure I'll get back about 80-90% of my investment by the time JVC releases a revolutionary model, hopefully next fall. From what I've gathered, none of the current or upcoming JVC models are really all that much better than the previous couple versions. The panels are a bit better, contrast improves a slight amount, motion is better, but I doubt any of these I'd really notice unless I spend near $10k.

However, the 4810 does seem pretty nifty. And, if it turns out to be stricken with issues, you can always resell it. There will be plenty of people who will still want to buy it from you, even if it means you lose a couple hundred.

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post #15 of 20 Old 10-03-2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I really like the idea of the 55 but just can't justify it at this point in the game. I'm looking for something at a little less price point until laser, etc.
I really don't think there are many projectors that can compete with the JVC's in the black level dept. That's kind of their claim to fame. I personally would deal with a hair less BL and a projector that doesn't need a new bulb every 300 hours (RS40/45), or one that puts out a third the lumens it's advertised at (RS50/60).
Don't get me wrong, I love JVC, but have been kind of soured on them as of late. I want to want another one, but find myself leaning elsewhere.
Wish I could find a pre owned RS35. smile.gif

Most of the "bad" RS-45 bulbs last 600-900 hours, you could end up on the low side as always though and get much less, or you could get more (some have gotten 1500+).
JVC has been giving free bulbs when people have the issue (so I would not say that JVC has screwed anyone), and you generally end up getting a total of 2000+ lamp hours until the warranty runs out. For at least half or more of users, that is more hours then many will ever even use. For some heavy users like myself, it is an issue, but the RS-45 is a pretty awesome projector even though it does not have e-shift and the 3D sux. There isn't a better projector in its price range for pure 2D usage, and with the added Darby it gives the image a bit more punch to bring the image up to a pretty high standard.

There is some indiciation that the V3 lamps might be better, and I haven't seen as many people posting about lamp issues with the RS-45 lately, but it's hard to say since most people do not use their projectors long enough to know.


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post #16 of 20 Old 10-04-2012, 02:15 AM
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Maybe the Sony HW50 is an option for you which is just around the corner. It has some nice features like Reality Creation, has good implemented Frame Interpolation, lots of brightness for 3D is according to reviews is supposed to have great black level. With the Sony you will also threat yourself with much better (faster) panels than tyhe JVCs.
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post #17 of 20 Old 10-04-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe the Sony HW50 is an option for you which is just around the corner. It has some nice features like Reality Creation, has good implemented Frame Interpolation, lots of brightness for 3D is according to reviews is supposed to have great black level.

Won't work. Not enough lens throw.
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With the Sony you will also threat yourself with much better (faster) panels than tyhe JVCs.

Hence another reason I was leaning towards the HC9000.

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post #18 of 20 Old 10-04-2012, 01:30 PM
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For around $300, you could Totally change your mind on upgrading your RS20....Get the Darbee Vision Darblet; a small little video processor that has changed my personal RS20 experience....it's really that much of a difference in contrast and sharpness (with no added noise!)

PS....Then you could get a new bulb from AVS (and the Darblet).....g o o d t o G O ! ! ! biggrin.gif

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post #19 of 20 Old 10-04-2012, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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For around $300, you could Totally change your mind on upgrading your RS20....Get the Darbee Vision Darblet; a small little video processor that has changed my personal RS20 experience....it's really that much of a difference in contrast and sharpness (with no added noise!)
PS....Then you could get a new bulb from AVS (and the Darblet).....g o o d t o G O ! ! ! biggrin.gif

I could have. biggrin.gif

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post #20 of 20 Old 10-06-2012, 11:03 AM
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Ditto.

I actually regressed from a RS20 to a RS2 clone and got a Darbee as well as a new lamp. Had finished playing with the Sony as well, HW10, HW15 and VW60. Color might be a tad more natural but can't deal with the iris or the contrast.

The RS4810 sure looks good on paper; lets see if QC is up there after the initial love affair.

Have something to look forward to in 2013.
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