Sony VPL-HW50ES or Epson 5020/6020 - First Projector - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 10-04-2012, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the process of purchasing my first projector/screen after realizing that a 65" plasma just wasn't giving me the immersion i was looking for. I've been reading the forums/reviews (Art F.) and following the timelines of the impending releases of the Sony VPL-HW50ES and the Epson 5020/6020.

The projector will be going in the basement rec room - which has a few windows due to it being a walk out basement. In the process of purchasing light controlled blinds, etc. but don't want to turn the rec room into a completely dark cave while watching football. Currently when watching movies on the plasma all the lights are out and its very dark in the evening, but during the day, we've hung up curtains to block some of the sunlght to reduce glare from the glass screen. (brand new home - so still moving in smile.gif)

My question is will the Sony provide enough brightness for during the day casual viewing (sunday football)? I was intiially sold on the epson, but i am a gamer and the dicussions regarding the lag made me very concerend. Also, seeing both the HW30ES and the Epson 6010 in action - i thought the Epson was rather soft and the Sony had much more pop/color/detail (both were in light controlled dark demo rooms at the store)

I've purchased a Black Diamon Zero Edge 108" screen with 1.4 gain. I'm hoping that will make the Sony deliver and provide a bright image in non-cave like conditions.
I've already installed the mount (@ 15ft from screen), and currently my main viewing couch is about 12ft from the screen.
Screen should arrive tomorrow or next week - and eagerly awaiting launch of the new projectors (can't get here soon enough!)

Viewing breakout:
Sunday Football
Blu-Ray AND 3d Blu-Ray Movies (usually nightime viewing)
Xbox/Ps3 (Madden, CoD, etc)
FiOS casual viewing (day and night)

Thanks!
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post #2 of 23 Old 10-04-2012, 11:02 AM
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I am in the same boat as you, I am looking at the same projectors and same size screen. Not sure about the SI screen for me , They are kind of pricey and I am sure if its worth the price or not. Who did you buy the screen from and what is your projector height off the floor?

I think in a month we will have some good projector reviews. That's what I am waiting for.
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post #3 of 23 Old 10-04-2012, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Agree the BD Zero Edge WAS pricey...been working with the Best Buy guys from Mag - and they've been pretty awesome. I purchased an entire system (Elite SC-65 Reciever, B&W CM9 Fronts, B&W CMC2 Center, and a Pannasonic 65" vt50) - but exchanging the 65" Vt50 cause its just not quite big enough - dont get me a wrong its a great TV but we want to use the downstairs for movies/sports and see TVs as more for casual viewing - it looks just a big as our 46in upstairs due to the size of the Rec room.

Wanted to have that same flat panel look, hence the BD Zero edge - they worked with me a bit on the price due to the entire HT package purchased.

I have my sanus mount already installed in the ceiling (8ft ceilings), and i've replaced my current Component Stand (wide vs tall) with a 18" Sanus Center speaker stand, and moving the components off to the side with a Sanus Component Tower/Rack (45in high).

I'm thinking the bottom of the screen will be about 30-32" off the ground since i have some more room now that the previous component stand is out of the way - should work out perfectly. i was toying with the 100" screen - but just knew i'd be kicking myself for not going larger. I have two small windows toward the ceiling and its 99" between the two (108" Zerod edge is 95" w so will fit perfectly between them) - other advantage of the zero edge - the thin bezel. If i went with standard screen, max would have been 100" due to the larger bezel footprint- so that justified the extra price.

I think right now the Sony VPL-HW50ES is my ticket due to no mention of the Epsons adressing the input lag issues and may be the best all around value for moives, 3d, sports, gaming.
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post #4 of 23 Old 10-05-2012, 06:44 PM
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I would certainly read the reviews carefully when the 5020 comes out, they should both be top choices but some different feature sets and strengths could obviously come into play.

I currently own a Sony VPL-HW15 and am starting to drool over the HW50. When I bought the HW15 I had a unique chance to compare it in my home to a Benq W6000 DLP model and an Epson LCD. I like the Benq a bunch except for being sensitive to rainbows, and it was worse in that respect than the Optoma I was replacing. The HW15 just stood out to me as having a very refined image, very good color and not jumping out as doing anything wrong. I've never been unhappy with it, except that I want a 3D experience now, thus the HW50 envy.

I've seen and lusted over the BD screens at a local Magnolia, so I am sure BD ZE will be a fantastic choice for your room. I see that SI finally has a retractable motorized version of the BD... gonna have to look for more info on that, and I may have to choose between that or an HW50 for an upgrade!
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post #5 of 23 Old 10-05-2012, 07:24 PM
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If you haven't mounted your screen yet, I would suggest going even lower to the floor, if possible. I have a 119" screen and the bottom edge is 24" from the floor. After six years, I wish I had gone about four inches lower than that. I like the feeling that you are looking straight forward out a window rather than having to look somewhat up at the screen. I think it enhances that feeling of immersion you are looking for.

My two cents,
Duane
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-06-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input...
Projector arrives monday - screen hopefully monday or tuesday


Using the 18" Sanus Center Speaker stand (steel series) - and will place my center on top of that. Wil put bottom edge of the screen just a couple inches higher - so lowest i could go is maybe 28 or 29 inches. Center Channel is 8 5/8 inches tall.

Sitting about 12-13 ft back - but will see how things go once all the gear is here smile.gif Can't wait!
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-06-2012, 08:39 PM
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Did you order the Sony HW50ES? If so, how is it getting there on Monday if its not available yet?
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post #8 of 23 Old 10-06-2012, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Ordered direct from Sony. You can order now - who'll ship out on Monday.
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckortane007 View Post

Sitting about 12-13 ft back - but will see how things go once all the gear is here smile.gif Can't wait!
1st, either one of those as your 1st PJ is like hitting a home run on your 1st at bat so that's pretty sweet. 2nd, IMHO @12-13FT 108" will seem teeny in a short time. I'm at about 10Ft and I can easily upgrade from 100" to 120" minimum. That's the only weak point I see in your 1st set up.
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 12:07 AM
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I'm sure you will like it. I just put up it's little brother, the HW30ES (which is about half the price online vs. the 50es) today in my batcave home theater. It replaces a Sanyo Z3000 LCD projector, which I loved, but had developed some kind of streak down the middle of the screen.
The main difference I've noticed so far is the lack of screen door. I guess this is a LCoS feature. It makes the picture much smoother. I can get right up to the screen and not see the gaps between pixels. Amazing.
Also, the lens shift and zoom is NOT as good as the Panny/Sanyo/Epson LCD projectors... but it's still good... just do some calculations before you get one. I had to lower my ceiling mount (8ft ceiling) by about a foot.

The gaming lag was a big deal to me also. Bizzare that Epson hasn't addressed that. Go Sony!
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post #11 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 01:07 PM
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The Sanyo was a nice projector, but the SDE of LCD is a bummer once you go LCOS. LCOS is more consistent.


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post #12 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

I'm sure you will like it. I just put up it's little brother, the HW30ES (which is about half the price online vs. the 50es) today in my batcave home theater. It replaces a Sanyo Z3000 LCD projector, which I loved, but had developed some kind of streak down the middle of the screen.
The main difference I've noticed so far is the lack of screen door. I guess this is a LCoS feature. It makes the picture much smoother. I can get right up to the screen and not see the gaps between pixels. Amazing.
Also, the lens shift and zoom is NOT as good as the Panny/Sanyo/Epson LCD projectors... but it's still good... just do some calculations before you get one. I had to lower my ceiling mount (8ft ceiling) by about a foot.
The gaming lag was a big deal to me also. Bizzare that Epson hasn't addressed that. Go Sony!

Have to agree here. Most say if you sit far enough back you wont see Screen Door on LCD Projectors. While this is kind of true, it gives the picture an overall digital feel which is easily noticeable once you are used to DLP or LCOS.

LCOS is 90% Fill ratio, DLP is 80%, and LCD is about 50% I think.. (might be 60% now for the new panels)

From all reports the HW50 seems like an excellent Projector.
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post #13 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 05:27 PM
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Panasonic's don't suffer from SDE with their smoothscreen tech.

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post #14 of 23 Old 11-05-2012, 09:19 AM
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Hello,
Is there any update of this topic ?
I'm quiet interested to know if the hw50 has low input lag.
I'm a hardcore gamer, so...
Thanks !
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-05-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straxjam View Post

Hello,
Is there any update of this topic ?
I'm quiet interested to know if the hw50 has low input lag.
I'm a hardcore gamer, so...
Thanks !

Hi, the HW50 measures 30ms in the 'gaming' mode setting in the projector. There are a few reports of 50ms and 62ms on the 5020. The Sony seems to be the leader now of the new models in regard to lag time.
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post #16 of 23 Old 12-03-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbickle View Post

Have to agree here. Most say if you sit far enough back you wont see Screen Door on LCD Projectors. While this is kind of true, it gives the picture an overall digital feel which is easily noticeable once you are used to DLP or LCOS.
LCOS is 90% Fill ratio, DLP is 80%, and LCD is about 50% I think.. (might be 60% now for the new panels)
From all reports the HW50 seems like an excellent Projector.

will we feel the digital thing(soap opera i think you mean) if we use lcos or lcd? sorry for my english kind regards
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post #17 of 23 Old 12-03-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoey67 View Post

1st, either one of those as your 1st PJ is like hitting a home run on your 1st at bat so that's pretty sweet. 2nd, IMHO @12-13FT 108" will seem teeny in a short time. I'm at about 10Ft and I can easily upgrade from 100" to 120" minimum. That's the only weak point I see in your 1st set up.

I also sit at 10ft & I'm finding that while I like the immersion of my 120" screen, I can see the compositions better with a 110" screen (that I drape on top of the 120" screen just for testing purposes). I also agree with the other poster about lowering your screen; I find that when I stand up the image feels more immersive... which means I need to lower my screen.

The 120" at 10ft sitting distance is 1.15x SW. With a 110" screen & 10ft sitting distance, that's 1.25x SW. As much as I like the big image, I'm thinking of going with the latter. With the 120" at my sitting distance I almost get a little lost in the image & the process of looking around at the beautiful image, while great, detracts from absorbing the full composition of shots IMHO.

Anyone else agree? I myself am still a little torn on whether or not I want to downgrade my screen size (I'm buying a new screen b/c I want new material; namely, the HCHP material from Da-Lite).

Cheers.
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post #18 of 23 Old 12-03-2012, 10:53 PM
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The 120" at 10ft sitting distance is 1.15x SW. With a 110" screen & 10ft sitting distance, that's 1.25x SW. As much as I like the big image, I'm thinking of going with the latter. With the 120" at my sitting distance I almost get a little lost in the image & the process of looking around at the beautiful image, while great, detracts from absorbing the full composition of shots IMHO.

Anyone else agree?

We sit about 12' from a 118" wide screen, which is about 1.25 screen widths. It's about right for me . And a little closer to our 106" wide 16:9 screen - that works out to about 1.30 screen widths. Looks great though - especially with the new Darbee !!

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post #19 of 23 Old 12-03-2012, 11:13 PM
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Mounting close to the floor has absolutely nothing to do with correct screen installation. Height depends on where your direct line of sight hits the screen. Correct positioning with one row is about 1/3 the way up from screen bottom. Perhaps a tad (inch or two) heigher. It actually depends on the angle which of course will change with the viewing distance but that is too long a post at this hour.Just set it so that with your normal head in a chair position tour eyes look at the 1/3 up spot or a few inches above that. With two rows with the second row about a foot higher we try to have the second row sight line hit 1/2 up. I am exhausted from the Redskins game.

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post #20 of 23 Old 12-04-2012, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mounting close to the floor has absolutely nothing to do with correct screen installation. height depens on where your direct line of height hits the screen. Correct positioning with one row is about 1/3 the way up. Perhaps a tad (iunch or two) heigher. It actually depends on the angle which of course will change with the viewing distance but that is too long a post at this hour. I am exhausted from the Redskins game.
Everything stated above is mostly correct, but I think the most often made mistake with screen installation is to mount big screen "too high" in a single row theater. Why so? Equipment racks from TV era often need to fit below the screen etc. The vertical bottom of the image often stays in same position when people swap 40-50 inch TVs to 100+ inch screen and obviously one ends up looking upwards.

My 110 inch 16:9 screen is just 23 inches from the floor and immersion it gives for both 2D and 3D is just amazing. I measured my eye level on my sofa (a cozy one, one sits quite low in it) and despite being a bit on the taller side 6 ft 2" my eye level is just 40 inches from the floor. So if I did mount my screen on a "traditional" of the used height of 30 or so from the ground I'd have pretty much whole 2.35:1 picture above my eye level, which IMO kills the immersion quite bad. Ok, my setup is a bit more clever than that as I move 2.35:1 image to the bottom of the screen and mask the grey bar above the picture, but even so I would not put screen any higher than it currently is.

Local pro that sells screens visited my house for other reason recently and I showed him my theater room. He left fully convinced that "lower is better2; obviously unless there is a reason to mount higher like having multiple rows...

Often, when given a chance one does not go to 1st row in the movies to avoid looking upwards, yet for various reasons home theater room is quite often build a bit like 1st row on the movie theater.

Here's what THX says about vertical viewing angles.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/hdtv-set-up/
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post #21 of 23 Old 12-04-2012, 06:29 AM
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I am exhausted from the Redskins game.

Awesome game.

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post #22 of 23 Old 12-04-2012, 11:43 AM
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Probably means nothing unless the Skins beat baltimore this Sunday. then they are really in the hunt for the dision crown or a wild card. the whole mess will likely then come down to last game, Dallas at home.

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post #23 of 23 Old 01-14-2013, 05:04 PM
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I realize this thread has gone over a month with no entries but since I am in a very similar position to the OP I would like to see what, if anything, has changed over the past month with more folks using both of the projectors listed here.

I am in the process of building a new house. We are a ways from making a final projector/screen choice so I have been reading every thread I can find on the projectors in my price range ($2500-3500). My room is dedicated and has light control but is not a true home theater in the sense that others have their rooms painted black and use it only for HT. The room is a true Media Room with audio (stereo and multichannel), TV, movies and general entertainment use (when the wife can run me out of it). The room is 15X18 and is all on a single level with 10' ceiling. All equipment will be rack mounted with the projector ceiling mounted. I anticipate 90% movies and the rest TV or maybe HTPC (TBD). I like the idea of 2.4:1 but 16X9 would be better for TV etc. No gaming is planned so delay is not an issue. The speakers are not going to be behind the screen and the front L/R with be just outside the screen area (color of speakers in to be matte black). 2D is the priority...3D is of very minor interest at this time....just can't enjoy it at the current level and the wife hates it so not an issue right now.

If money were no object I would go anamorphic lens with automatic masking of a 16X9 screen with a 120" diagonal. However, money is an issue and the extra cost of the lens and the sled is too much for the budget. I am think of a video processing with a Lumigen or similar device to do the 2.35:1 (and other scaling). It seems a more cost effective solution. The other idea is to go with a projector with a power lens and memory but in my price range that looks like the Panny 8000 which scares me with the lousy warranty and frequent complaints of various types.

My current thoughts are with the Sony 50ES as it seems to be the best at 2D vs the Epsons. Another option might be a JVC but the they are pricey and there is no real history on the new lamp design yet so if it does work out I still have that as an option. I still have 3 months before the projector will be installed.
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