Official Owners' Thread, Panasonic PT-AE8000U (US version) PT-AT6000E (European version) - Page 186 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5551 of 5573 Old 06-20-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
"The others" meaning which manufacturers and models?

I'm not sure what your point is. Constant Image Area is difficult to attain. And 99.9% of people could care less once they figure out it is mathematically exceptionally difficult to obtain unless you're willing to commit to a particular screen size ONLY to achieve CIA, or you have >1 screen. You have to get the aspect ratios, throw distance, and image area all correct. This tends to be quite challenging.

Unless someone has a specific need, they're better off going with industry standards and fitting an odd image to a standard size for viewing. 99.9% of people don't need constant image area for any particular purpose. How many films are in 2.06:1 and how many people care? I don't see the Panny's inability to do that as a detriment. How many people don't buy a PJ because it won't do some obscure aspect ratio? I'd bet close to zero. How many people would not buy a PJ if it didn't support 16:9? Almost everyone.

The most common AR's are 4:3 (1.33:1), 16:9 (1.78:1), 2.35:1, 2.39:1, and 2.40:1. Less common are 16:10 (1.6:1), 1.85:1, and 1.9:1. There's no easy method of choosing a screen size in one of these ratios and trying to match a corresponding ratio, then tinkering with screen sizes to find one that displays both in the same space. It's an exercise 99% of people will lose interest in after about 5 minutes. If it were simple and straightforward, everyone would do it.

If OTOH, you're saying other PJ's support aspect ratios other than 16:9, 4:3, and 2.35:1, I can understand that appeal if someone has a particular interest. For example, some folks might strongly prefer being able to render a 2.40:1 screen because it is able to preserve the original image from 2.35:1 to 2.40:1. A minor point to some people, and an important point to others. Since the Panny locks in the 2.35:1 AR, that could be a detriment to someone with that perspective.
What in the world are you talking about? CIA on a single screen with or without masking on one or two screens is simple. With a single screen and no masking, you buy a screen with a 2.04 aspect ratio. That's it, nothing else to do. So if you buy a 10' wide (viewing) screen, the (viewing) height will be 58.8". So you're 2.35 image will be 51" x 120" (42.5SF) and your 16:9 image will be 58.8" x 104.66" (42.7SF). Since the Panny can't do this, I will use the JVC for calculating throw. You can mount the JVC anywhere from 14' to 24'-6". That is it. Nothing else to do. CIA is a great way to go, with one exception, without masking, you will always have unused screen, with either format.

With two screens, you just buy the two screen sizes as exampled above. If using 10' wide, you buy 2.35 of 51" x 120" and 16:9 of 58.8" x 104.66". Use lens memory to fill both screens.

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post #5552 of 5573 Old 06-20-2017, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
What in the world are you talking about? CIA on a single screen with or without masking on one or two screens is simple. With a single screen and no masking, you buy a screen with a 2.04 aspect ratio. That's it, nothing else to do. So if you buy a 10' wide (viewing) screen, the (viewing) height will be 58.8". So you're 2.35 image will be 51" x 120" (42.5SF) and your 16:9 image will be 58.8" x 104.66" (42.7SF). Since the Panny can't do this, I will use the JVC for calculating throw. You can mount the JVC anywhere from 14' to 24'-6". That is it. Nothing else to do. CIA is a great way to go, with one exception, without masking, you will always have unused screen, with either format.

With two screens, you just buy the two screen sizes as exampled above. If using 10' wide, you buy 2.35 of 51" x 120" and 16:9 of 58.8" x 104.66". Use lens memory to fill both screens.
I see. I was thinking you were talking about CIA where no masking is required and there's no empty space.

So, what is it about the Panny that it can't do in that regard, since it can do 16:9 and 2.35:1? It's not a requirements AFAIK for the AE8000 to use CIH, so why wouldn't it be able to produce an image that is one height at 2.35:1 and another height at 16:9?

Is it possible to choose an aspect ratio other than 16:9 or 2.35:1 with an alternative PJ in the class of PJ's? Aren't all its competitors also natively 16:9 PJ's?

I don't understand how the end result in your example is substantially different from what the Panny's offer. There's still unused space in one format or the other. In the example you mentioned, you would have unused space both vertically and horizontally if I understand you correctly. What is the benefit to the user? One could use 2 screens for the Panny as well if it were a priority to have no masking or zoom.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the light here, but I just don't see a disadvantage here to the Panny that would matter to the vast majority of users.

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post #5553 of 5573 Old 06-21-2017, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
Perhaps I'm just not seeing the light here, but I just don't see a disadvantage here to the Panny that would matter to the vast majority of users.
There isn't one.
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post #5554 of 5573 Old 06-21-2017, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Geek View Post
I see. I was thinking you were talking about CIA where no masking is required and there's no empty space.

So, what is it about the Panny that it can't do in that regard, since it can do 16:9 and 2.35:1? It's not a requirements AFAIK for the AE8000 to use CIH, so why wouldn't it be able to produce an image that is one height at 2.35:1 and another height at 16:9?

Is it possible to choose an aspect ratio other than 16:9 or 2.35:1 with an alternative PJ in the class of PJ's? Aren't all its competitors also natively 16:9 PJ's?

I don't understand how the end result in your example is substantially different from what the Panny's offer. There's still unused space in one format or the other. In the example you mentioned, you would have unused space both vertically and horizontally if I understand you correctly. What is the benefit to the user? One could use 2 screens for the Panny as well if it were a priority to have no masking or zoom.

Perhaps I'm just not seeing the light here, but I just don't see a disadvantage here to the Panny that would matter to the vast majority of users.
CIA is exactly that. The area of the 16:9 image is the same as the area of the 2.35 image. You can't do that with the Panny. That is because the Panny has to be mounted between the top and bottom of the image and with CIA, the 16:9 image is taller than the 2.35.

Yes with only a single screen and no masking, you will have unused screen with 16:9 and 2.25. How is that much different than when doing CIH with a screen without masking? Besides, with lens memory, it is very easy to shift the scope image down to the bottom and mask the top. Also pretty easy to mask the sides of the 16:9 image.

With a single row of seating and a 16:9 screen or a scope screen you have a compromise on either 16:9 or scope. With a scope screen, you end up with a compromised 16:9 image that is small. With a 16:9 screen you end up with a compromised scope image that is smaller than your 16:9 image. If your setup is mostly for movies, many people are more willing to compromise the 16:9 image to get the larger scope image. That is how my system is set up, but still, it is a compromise and I certainly notice it every time I have a movie that is in 16:9 format. It is also a big compromise for anybody that uses their system for TV viewing and sports. My way around that is to have two screens.

This is not some foreign or unusual idea. CIA is the ultimate system, but not many do it due to cost and complexity. Several companies make 4-way masking screens for CIA.
http://www.seymourscreenexcellence.com/CA.asp
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/sta...ectors-choice)

The other way of doing it with no masking and not having black bars or unused screen is to use two screens.

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post #5555 of 5573 Old 06-21-2017, 06:30 AM
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[quote=Mike Garrett;53781969]CIA is exactly that. The area of the 16:9 image is the same as the area of the 2.35 image.[quote]

I believe it's not necessarily 16:9 + 2.35:1, but that is what most people are after when they strive to setup CIA.


Quote:
You can't do that with the Panny. That is because the Panny has to be mounted between the top and bottom of the image and with CIA, the 16:9 image is taller than the 2.35.
Your comprehension of the AE8000's vertical offset is not correct. The PJ has a 100% maximum offset, meaning it is capable of being mounted with the center of the lens up to 100% above or below the distance from the center of the screen to the edge of the screen. Put another way, it is possible to mount it up to 50% of the screen height above or below the screen. The link to Panasonic's web throw distance calculator that I linked in a post above will calculate the maximum vertical and horizontal offsets.


Quote:
Yes with only a single screen and no masking, you will have unused screen with 16:9 and 2.25. How is that much different than when doing CIH with a screen without masking? Besides, with lens memory, it is very easy to shift the scope image down to the bottom and mask the top. Also pretty easy to mask the sides of the 16:9 image.
Yes, I completely agree. There's virtually no experiential difference. The end result if not identical, is close to it from a practical viewpoint.


Quote:
With a single row of seating and a 16:9 screen or a scope screen you have a compromise on either 16:9 or scope. With a scope screen, you end up with a compromised 16:9 image that is small. With a 16:9 screen you end up with a compromised scope image that is smaller than your 16:9 image. If your setup is mostly for movies, many people are more willing to compromise the 16:9 image to get the larger scope image. That is how my system is set up, but still, it is a compromise and I certainly notice it every time I have a movie that is in 16:9 format. It is also a big compromise for anybody that uses their system for TV viewing and sports. My way around that is to have two screens.

This is not some foreign or unusual idea. CIA is the ultimate system, but not many do it due to cost and complexity. Several companies make 4-way masking screens for CIA.
I don't disagree with you. I went through the same thought process and chose to prioritize a 2.35:1 screen. I also chose not to use a masking system. I have considered using a grey screen instead of my current white screen in an effort to improve the effect of the side panels fading into the background when in 16:9 mode. However, that obviously has other implications (but it's one possible method of attempting to improve the black levels of unmasked areas). 2.35:1 is easier to tackle by simply moving the image up or down, as you've mentioned.

You've jarred my memory on the masking panels. I recall Carada used to make the best (and rather expensive) masking system (fully automatic/electronic). I don't know if they still make it.

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post #5556 of 5573 Old 06-24-2017, 07:02 AM
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I just put the new bulb in my AE8000. The old bulb had 4,005 hours on it and the projector was starting to turn itself off after 10 minutes. So it seemed like time. But before putting the new bulb in I measured the brightness with a test pattern and my light meter. The old bulb measured 11.7 to 12.0 lux (the pattern had some animation so it wasn't constant). After putting in the new bulb, and measuring as closely as I could (same time of night, all lights out, light meter hand-held at the same rough position, etc.) I measured 21.8 to 22.5 lux.

So the new bulb gave me almost twice the light output. It's like a new projector, for about $500 (or given the hours, just over a dime per hour). Seems like a good deal.

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post #5557 of 5573 Old 06-26-2017, 06:05 AM
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Question Weird color bars on top and bottom of the screen

I just noticed strange color bars on the top and the bottom of the screen. There is a blue-ish bar at the top and a red-ish one at the bottom across the screen. It can be easily spotted on the test screen especially on the right hand size on the white area. My PJ has around 1900 hours on it. Is this normal behavior of ageing lamp or something else? No other issues with PJ.
Please check attached picture. Any feedback appreciated.
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post #5558 of 5573 Old 06-26-2017, 06:16 AM
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I've never seen anything like that. I have gone through 2 lamps (4,000 hours each) over 4 years and on my 3rd. There can be dust problems, but that looks too neat to be dust. I suspect an electrical problem.

To diagnose, try these things:
1) try a different input on the projector
2) try different sources
3) try connecting a source directly to the projector (to rule out your long cable)
4) if possible, try something other than HDMI (you may find an old laptop with VGA that you can connect)

Let us know,
Mike
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post #5559 of 5573 Old 06-28-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
I've never seen anything like that. I have gone through 2 lamps (4,000 hours each) over 4 years and on my 3rd. There can be dust problems, but that looks too neat to be dust. I suspect an electrical problem.

To diagnose, try these things:
1) try a different input on the projector
2) try different sources
3) try connecting a source directly to the projector (to rule out your long cable)
4) if possible, try something other than HDMI (you may find an old laptop with VGA that you can connect)

Let us know,
Mike
Thanks. Will check this weekend.

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post #5560 of 5573 Old 06-29-2017, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Have you checked the specs on that awesome projector they are offering you? Unless 3D and lens memory is a must have for you, then this this replacement is a no brainer! DLP design with no lamp! ...no filter..no fan. Combo laser/led illumination...3500 lumens....Even if you don't need it further down the road, you can sell it for a lot more than a used 8000....
Very interesting. My 8000 is approaching 5 years old and I will soon either need to buy my third lamp or replace the projector. I'm wondering if the AE8000 replacement will incorporate some of the features of the rz370.

Perhaps forum blasphemy, but when my second lamp hit 5000 hours I reset the counter to zero and have since put another 3000(?!) hours on the lamp. I'm sure it will give up the ghost one of these days, but so far it's still throwing a pretty solid picture. Anyone else have a similar experience?
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post #5561 of 5573 Old 06-29-2017, 03:49 PM
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I think I hit 9K on my first lamp! ECO and HA mode it's whole life.
I replaced the whole projector as to have a spare.
Vince

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post #5562 of 5573 Old 06-29-2017, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by compaddict View Post
I think I hit 9K on my first lamp! ECO and HA mode it's whole life.
I replaced the whole projector as to have a spare.
Vince
Interesting. I still have my first lamp, which has 5000 hours on it. When #2 goes, I may just run #1 til it dies. I really don't want to buy another $400 lamp for a five year old projector. That will almost guarantee that Panny announces their new and much improved HT PJ the next day. Heck, if I wind up without a working lamp for a few days, I still have my old AE2000 that I can fire up.
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post #5563 of 5573 Old 06-29-2017, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMJack View Post
Interesting. I still have my first lamp, which has 5000 hours on it. When #2 goes, I may just run #1 til it dies. I really don't want to buy another $400 lamp for a five year old projector. That will almost guarantee that Panny announces their new and much improved HT PJ the next day. Heck, if I wind up without a working lamp for a few days, I still have my old AE2000 that I can fire up.
Pretty safe to say that Panasonic has quit the home theater projector market... They seem to only be in the commercial/media projector market now...
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post #5564 of 5573 Old 06-29-2017, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Pretty safe to say that Panasonic has quit the home theater projector market... They seem to only be in the commercial/media projector market now...
You may be correct, but I hope not. If they weren't planning to replace the AE8000, I would have expected them to just continue production until it was clearly obsolete. I don't consider that to be the case, and it may not be until 4K and/or laser-LED projectors are the norm.

Back somewhat on topic, since the first AE8000's are now almost five years old, I'm curious what other owners (who are happy with the AE8000 features/performance) would consider for replacements. On first glance, it looks like the Sony HW45ES might be a logical candidate.
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post #5565 of 5573 Old 07-02-2017, 04:16 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxxiu View Post
I just noticed strange color bars on the top and the bottom of the screen. There is a blue-ish bar at the top and a red-ish one at the bottom across the screen. It can be easily spotted on the test screen especially on the right hand size on the white area. My PJ has around 1900 hours on it. Is this normal behavior of ageing lamp or something else? No other issues with PJ.
Please check attached picture. Any feedback appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sargent View Post
I've never seen anything like that. I have gone through 2 lamps (4,000 hours each) over 4 years and on my 3rd. There can be dust problems, but that looks too neat to be dust. I suspect an electrical problem.

To diagnose, try these things:
1) try a different input on the projector
2) try different sources
3) try connecting a source directly to the projector (to rule out your long cable)
4) if possible, try something other than HDMI (you may find an old laptop with VGA that you can connect)

Let us know,
Mike
Hi,

I performed all suggested tests with no positive result at all.
At the end I just disconnected all cables and stayed with projector's own test screen.
There are still colorful belts one at the top and second at the bottom of the screen.
It looks like something produced by the projector itself.

Any ideas what it might be? Is it something to worry about? Do you think new lamp will fix it (or it's safer to no invest in it anymore)?
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post #5566 of 5573 Old 07-02-2017, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxxiu View Post
Hi,

I performed all suggested tests with no positive result at all.
At the end I just disconnected all cables and stayed with projector's own test screen.
There are still colorful belts one at the top and second at the bottom of the screen.
It looks like something produced by the projector itself.

Any ideas what it might be? Is it something to worry about? Do you think new lamp will fix it (or it's safer to no invest in it anymore)?
Unfortunately, it appears your projector needs service... That is not a defect that will be fixed by replacing the lamp..
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post #5567 of 5573 Old 07-03-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by deano86 View Post
Unfortunately, it appears your projector needs service... That is not a defect that will be fixed by replacing the lamp..
I agree with deano86. The new lamp will not fix it.

My case:
Years ago my Panasonic AE2000 showed a cyan bar on the bottom and the cause was a displacement of the red polarizer. Each polarizer (cristal or plastic) is bonded to it's metal frame with little adhesive ribbons. Maybe because of the heat+bumps+vibration, the cristal moved. The polarizer's zone that had been in contact with the adhesive (with a bar form) was dirty and blocked the light in that zone. My PJ was ceiling-mounted. I opened the PJ and fixed it myself.

Now, your case:
-If you project a black image, can you see something -not black- in that zone? If yes, and this is not a fix, you could try the mask function with formats not 16:9.
Seing your image, the cyan bar on the top suggest absence of red, so something could be blocking the red path in this area. But de magenta bar on bottom indicates absence of green. See my avatar to understand additive colors.
I have no knowledge of another cause for these uniform horizontal bars. So, IMHO, your PJ could have a polarizer displacement. But, you're having 2 different-color bars... 2 at one time?
Things that could explanin the above:
-Do you remember if the 2 bars appeared at the same time?
-Do you have / had the PJ ceiling-mounted (upside down)? This could bring more heat to the polarizers and melt/soften the adhesive.
-Do you change it to a normal position? (or vice versa)
-Did your PJ overheated? Or did you move it when it was still hot?

Hope it helps.
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post #5568 of 5573 Old 07-04-2017, 11:37 PM
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A further update on my pj goings on.

In the end i was able to demo the rz370 in my home against the 8000, now the 370 on its own gives a good image very sharp and all appeared good so i thought, until i set them both up side be side, i went to on to compare them on a 106 scope screen flicking between the images the colours on the 370 was dreadful, blues was worst, gravity for instance the earth was green, and the older movie fools gold, again the sea towards the end of the movie, the bahamas again was green, i think not.lol.
But it didn't stop there, there was green tinge to the entire image, flesh tones was just all wrong !, i did what i could but with a lack of cms it was pretty hopeless. But the reviews for the 370 said as much.

So after a long couple of years of doing battle with the 8000 i admit defeat, it will be going back anough is anough, i genuinely do not believe it will remain fault free in the longevity.

So thanks to all who chipped in with my woes,you have all been very helpful, deano86 in particular.
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post #5569 of 5573 Old 07-05-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sim20 View Post
A further update on my pj goings on.

In the end i was able to demo the rz370 in my home against the 8000, now the 370 on its own gives a good image very sharp and all appeared good so i thought, until i set them both up side be side, i went to on to compare them on a 106 scope screen flicking between the images the colours on the 370 was dreadful, blues was worst, gravity for instance the earth was green, and the older movie fools gold, again the sea towards the end of the movie, the bahamas again was green, i think not.lol.
But it didn't stop there, there was green tinge to the entire image, flesh tones was just all wrong !, i did what i could but with a lack of cms it was pretty hopeless. But the reviews for the 370 said as much.

So after a long couple of years of doing battle with the 8000 i admit defeat, it will be going back anough is anough, i genuinely do not believe it will remain fault free in the longevity.

So thanks to all who chipped in with my woes,you have all been very helpful, deano86 in particular.
Well, that is too bad... Yes, I knew the RZ370 is more of a commercial grade projector, but I thought that you could at least put it in some sort of default "home theater" image mode and then tweak the individual Red, Green and Blue Contrast and Brightness settings to achieve a nice even 6500 deg. grayscale. But, for that, it really helps to have a light meter and a proper test pattern disc. I wouldn't think you would have to mess with the CMS... as that can be tricky... especially without a light meter. But at the very least, I figured you could at least sell RZ370 and get a lot more money than you would for your broken 8000... .to get at least something back.. Are you able to get a full refund for your 8000?
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post #5570 of 5573 Old 07-05-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ferbal View Post
I agree with deano86. The new lamp will not fix it.

My case:
Years ago my Panasonic AE2000 showed a cyan bar on the bottom and the cause was a displacement of the red polarizer. Each polarizer (cristal or plastic) is bonded to it's metal frame with little adhesive ribbons. Maybe because of the heat+bumps+vibration, the cristal moved. The polarizer's zone that had been in contact with the adhesive (with a bar form) was dirty and blocked the light in that zone. My PJ was ceiling-mounted. I opened the PJ and fixed it myself.

Now, your case:
-If you project a black image, can you see something -not black- in that zone? If yes, and this is not a fix, you could try the mask function with formats not 16:9.
Seing your image, the cyan bar on the top suggest absence of red, so something could be blocking the red path in this area. But de magenta bar on bottom indicates absence of green. See my avatar to understand additive colors.
I have no knowledge of another cause for these uniform horizontal bars. So, IMHO, your PJ could have a polarizer displacement. But, you're having 2 different-color bars... 2 at one time?
Things that could explanin the above:
-Do you remember if the 2 bars appeared at the same time?
-Do you have / had the PJ ceiling-mounted (upside down)? This could bring more heat to the polarizers and melt/soften the adhesive.
-Do you change it to a normal position? (or vice versa)
-Did your PJ overheated? Or did you move it when it was still hot?

Hope it helps.

Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated.
- indeed, thanks to the masking feature of this PJ, those colorful bars are not visible during 2.35:1 film projections (so in worst case scenario I will just live with them);
- masking is eliminating (covering/hiding) those nasty top and bottom bars (thank you Panasonic for such a fantastic feature);
- PJ was recently moved as I changed the house (and there were no artifacts before the move). I am too suspecting that something must have gone wrong during the move, even though projector was packed into its original box and protected and the move itself was just few blocks further so nothing extraordinary during transportation;
- it is not ceiling mounted and it's not changing position. It sits steadily on top of the designated cabinet;
- never had any overheat issues as it has plenty of space around;

Can you elaborate more on how you fixed displaced polarizers in your projector? Maybe it's worth to take a look inside my projector?
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post #5571 of 5573 Old 07-06-2017, 11:22 AM
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Hi Foxxiu.
It will take more than a look inside to know if this is your problem, and some skill to fix it.
You have to disassemble your PJ. If you don´t feel confortable with this kind of delicate job, then don´t try it.
This is an old link (9 years ago).
Official Panasonic AE2000 thread
The uploaded images's links doesn't work anymore. I can send you the complete post if you PM me a mail.
3 Questions remains:
1. Did the problem appeard suddenly or get worse gradually? If gradually, did the bars get higher with the time? or darker?
2. Do you remember if the 2 bars appeared at the same time?
3. If you project a black image, can you see something -not black- in that zone?
And a new one
4. Does the bars go along the entire wide of the screen?

Last edited by ferbal; 07-06-2017 at 11:26 AM.
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post #5572 of 5573 Old 07-16-2017, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferbal View Post
Hi Foxxiu.
It will take more than a look inside to know if this is your problem, and some skill to fix it.
You have to disassemble your PJ. If you don´t feel confortable with this kind of delicate job, then don´t try it.
This is an old link (9 years ago).
Official Panasonic AE2000 thread
The uploaded images's links doesn't work anymore. I can send you the complete post if you PM me a mail.
3 Questions remains:
1. Did the problem appeard suddenly or get worse gradually? If gradually, did the bars get higher with the time? or darker?
2. Do you remember if the 2 bars appeared at the same time?
3. If you project a black image, can you see something -not black- in that zone?
And a new one
4. Does the bars go along the entire wide of the screen?
Hi Ferbal,

Thanks for your reply.
I pm'ed you my email as electronics is my hobby, so it'll be just a matter of time to get my hands onto this awesome PJ internals

Back to your questions:
1. I noticed the problem after unpacking everything in the new house. Since then it is "stable".. luckily not getting worse nor change
2. The two bars appeared at the same time
3. When projecting black screen, the bars are not visible at all
4. The bars go along the entire width of the screen

Hope, you can figure what's wrong and give me some hints how to fix it.

Last edited by foxxiu; 07-16-2017 at 01:51 AM. Reason: update
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post #5573 of 5573 Old 07-17-2017, 12:30 PM
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Temp Light Blinking

I got one of these given to me third hand. It has a problem during startup where it goes through part of its initialization, but then the Temp light continuously blinks.
I don't have the contact to go back and see what they did to cause or try to remedy this issue. The lamp never turns on, so I can't get to the diagnostics page.

I was able to download the service manual, and I got it apart to the temperature sensors. The surprising thing is that I got it back together again without any extra parts too. That only showed me that the problem wasn't a loose cable, or anything physically toasted. Thermocouples rarely go bad, so I'm thinking that the problem is that expensive board in there. I don't think my home air temperature is less than -36 or higher than 43 degrees C. I would probably notice that.

The troubleshooting chart in the service manual says to "Check each temperature sensor". Does anyone know how to do that?

It looks like a few people have had this problem. Were they just returned for factory service? Was there any word on where the actual problem is? I'd like to avoid spending the $1K to change that A-P.C board.

Thanks

Paul

Last edited by pauldow; 07-18-2017 at 07:06 AM. Reason: Clarified the problem.
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