Official Owners' Thread, Panasonic PT-AE8000U (US version) PT-AT6000E (European version) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

My initial impressions on this projector can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/794089/jamis-theater-thread/930#post_22672221
Overall I am very happy with it out of the box in Normal mode, running the lamp on ECO. I've done very little to adjust the picture otherwise besides increasing the sharpness a bit.
One 'issue' I have is the aggressive FI modes. I liked MODE1 on my AE3000 for everything except video games, but MODE1 on the AE8000 has the 'soap opera' effect to me on HDTV and movies, which means MODE2 and MODE3 are probably going to be unusable for me.
Anyone else notice this?

I actually feel the same way, I don't know how most people enjoy using the FI modes on this projector. When I had a AE4000u I thought mode 1 was good (2 and 3 sucked). On the AE7000/8000 however I think the FI sucks and is unusable without seeing motion that looks like the Soap Opera Effect from some LED/LCD tvs.
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post #722 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMenke View Post

I purchased two pairs of the Xpand YOUniversal glasses because I'm still waiting on my two free pairs of Panasonic glasses. I have to agree that the Xpand lenses seemed surprisingly dark to me at first. However that was with picture mode set to REC709 and Eco mode on the lamp - what the heck was I expecting? tongue.gif When I set the picture mode to Dynamic and the lamp to Normal, the picture was plenty bright. To get the Dynamic mode looking accurate, I popped in the Blu-ray DVE HD Basics, set the projector into 2D > 3D simulation and wore the glassed while adjusting Contrast, Brightness, Color, and Tint. I am very satisfied with the 3D image on this projector through these glasses. At the moment my only test material is How to Train Your Dragon. I was not prepared for the incredible sharpness that you experience, not to mention the true 3D geometry of objects...as opposed to the "flat cardboard cutouts" look that I have seen with LCD television in store demos.
I decided to use the Picture Memory feature to save one setting for 2D movies and TV and another setting for 3D...makes the setup for 3D very easy and the transition back to 2D just as simple. The only other thing I need to do is switch the lamp power depending on viewing mode.

I have both Panasonic brand and Xpand glasses for my 7000 and tried them with 8000 when I had it.
Pretty much everyone agreed that Xpand were quite inferior to Pannys with major ghosting.
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post #723 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 10:06 AM
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Has anyone tried a Darbee Darblet with their AE8000 yet?

FOR SALE - Definitive Technology CLR3000. PM me if interested.
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post #724 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Received my AE8000U & did a quick comparison to my Sony HW50. My Panny unit must be a lemon, b/c its focus uniformity was just horrible. Download the following images of the NEC test screen & see for yourself. Both images were shot from the same position, same lens, etc. within minutes of one another, so they're entirely comparable.
Panny AE8000U:
http://f.cl.ly/items/072T2Q1V0h1k333j3z2E/PT-AE8000U-LensIssue.jpg
Sony HW50*:
http://cl.ly/LSbD/SonyHW50ES-Unit2-FocusUniformity.jpg

Based on my recent experience, the Panasonic unit is "within spec".

Of note, my 7000 has very good focus uniformity, better than your Sony - I was told that I got lucky and got a perfect 1 out of 1000 unit with my 7000.

I am waiting for JVC RS-56 reviews and if it is good I will probably take the plunge. In the meantime will upgrade my cheapo ceiling mount (it works OK but is a huge pain to adjust) to a Peerless setup with a side to side adjuster.
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post #725 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamis View Post

My initial impressions on this projector can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/794089/jamis-theater-thread/930#post_22672221
Overall I am very happy with it out of the box in Normal mode, running the lamp on ECO. I've done very little to adjust the picture otherwise besides increasing the sharpness a bit.
One 'issue' I have is the aggressive FI modes. I liked MODE1 on my AE3000 for everything except video games, but MODE1 on the AE8000 has the 'soap opera' effect to me on HDTV and movies, which means MODE2 and MODE3 are probably going to be unusable for me.
Anyone else notice this?

I don't see it at all. My daughter was watching The Amazing Spiderman with me and she complained that the presentation was "too clear...it looks too real...doesn't look like a movie."

To me, I want the presentation as clear, detailed, and fluid as possible. The only issue I've noticed with the FI modes on the 8000 vs. my old 3000 is that the higher modes sometimes seem to lag and then there is an odd "catch up" where the motion seems to move perceptibly faster. I notice this primarily during closeups of faces.
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post #726 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durack View Post

I have both Panasonic brand and Xpand glasses for my 7000 and tried them with 8000 when I had it.
Pretty much everyone agreed that Xpand were quite inferior to Pannys with major ghosting.

I'm looking forward to trying the Panasonic glasses to see if they are better, but with the Xpand I am not seeing anything I would describe as major ghosting. The primary situation where any ghosting (crosstalk) is visible at all is when there is a sharp transition from dark to light. For example a rope stretching across the sky on a ship: you can see a faint ghost on either side of the rope. This happens only rarely.

It may depend on the exact model of Xpand being discussed. Or possibly the firmware level. The YOUniversal model that I have is firmware upgradable. It started with v1.0.0 and ended up with something like v2.3.0 after update if I remember correctly.
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post #727 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 11:07 AM
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Xpands I am referring to is Xpand X103

Certainly possible that newer ones are better.
When I used X103 with 7000 and 8000 the 3D effect was much less pronounced and there was ghosting. They were essentially unusable and no one wanted to wear them.
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post #728 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 11:12 AM
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That's good to know...I would avoid the Xpand X103 model based on that feedback. The model I'm using is the X104.
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post #729 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 11:24 AM
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Any one here already received your rebate 3D glasses from Panasonic? If yes, how much did you wait to receive them?
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post #730 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durack View Post

Based on my recent experience, the Panasonic unit is "within spec".
Of note, my 7000 has very good focus uniformity, better than your Sony - I was told that I got lucky and got a perfect 1 out of 1000 unit with my 7000.
I am waiting for JVC RS-56 reviews and if it is good I will probably take the plunge. In the meantime will upgrade my cheapo ceiling mount (it works OK but is a huge pain to adjust) to a Peerless setup with a side to side adjuster.

Lame. It's a pain to go through units; not only for the manufacturer to keep sending out units (Sony seems pretty good about this anyway), but for me to keep swapping them out. I have better things to do with my time than do QC which should've been done by the company.

I was able to fiddle with the focus some more using a monocular to judge best focus; now for a 110" screen it's pretty uniform across the whole screen save for the upper left and lower right. Which is OK by me, given all the other strengths of the Sony. For example, I really found 3D to be unwatchable on the Panasonic. And Detail Clarity is nowhere near Reality Creation.

Zooming more for my 120" screen, focus uniformity is pretty poor. The lens on the Sony seems pretty temperamental though, again, nowhere near as bad as that AE8000U I briefly had.
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post #731 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Lame. It's a pain to go through units; not only for the manufacturer to keep sending out units (Sony seems pretty good about this anyway), but for me to keep swapping them out. I have better things to do with my time than do QC which should've been done by the company.

It is a pain - they are heavy, shipping them involved going out of my way to UPS store, etc.

Dealer that I bought the 8000 from told me they tested 2 units and they had the same focus problem. Thankfully, they managed to convince Panasonic to take it back so I will not be paying restocking fee even though the lamp has 14 hours on it, chances are if I called Panasonic directly they would have just told me that it is within spec and I should suck it up.

As I said, will wait for reviews on the JVC unit. It is expensive as heck but if it will give me the picture quality that I want, then I'll cough up the money.
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post #732 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMenke View Post

If I'm not mistaken, light output from a projector should be measured in terms of ANSI lumens according to IT7.215. Projector Central measured the AE7000 and AE8000 with these results in terms of ANSI lumens:
Mode AE7000 AE8000
Cinema 1 526 822
Cinema 2 1089 1612
Game 1204 1673
Normal 1300 1752
Dynamic 1685 2471
Rec. 709 592 821
D-Cinema 544 872

I know.
That confirms.
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post #733 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

I know.
That confirms.

Confirms what? Your other post seemed to imply insufficient light output. That conclusion seem inconsistent with > 2400 lumens on this projector, and other top 3D projectors like the Epson 5020.
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post #734 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 12:55 PM
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Ok guys, I am done calibrating this toy. Here is what I think, but first some details about the conditions of the calibration:

- Screen white mat, Gain 1.0
- Bat cave, totally.
- Calman 5 Ultimate software
- Jeti 1211 spectro-radiometer
- Quantumdata QD-780 pattern generator
- ISF Advanced workflow
- All steps, including CMS

At first I checked all presets at their native settings. REC709 was almost dead on, but ridiculously low on light output. 9 fL on low lamp, and 10.5 fL on normal lamp. Dismissed!
All other presets except the Normal preset measured funny. Dismissed!
Opted for the Normal preset.
>>>>>>>>> Now a word for the calibrators among us. This is one of the worst interface I ever had to use for calibration. This is truly calibration hell. A few examples:
- There is no hide button on the remote so you can hide the menu or submenu of a parameter while running a sweep/spot measurement. So for each measurement you have to navigate out and in again to wherever you were. Boy, did I curse Panny today...
- For CMS, I didn't know if I had to laugh or to cry. For every change, you have to 1) apply 2) save to profile 3) save the name of profile 4) navigate out 3 more steps. Imagine that, for each of the 6 colors you have 3 axis. After a few like trials I just ran through and barely averaged everything. This is the dumbest CMS menu I ever saw in my experience.

In the end I managed to get a good picture, sort of (I am very very picky), in the Normal mode with normal lamp mode.

But I gotta say that next time a customer calls me for this Panny projector, I'll get a few aspirins first.
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post #735 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Ok guys, I am done calibrating this toy. Here is what I think, but first some details about the conditions of the calibration:
- Screen white mat, Gain 1.0
- Bat cave, totally.
- Calman 5 Ultimate software
- Jeti 1211 spectro-radiometer
- Quantumdata QD-780 pattern generator
- ISF Advanced workflow
- All steps, including CMS

Could you let me know the numbers you got on Nomal mode with the lamp on Normal? How many inches is your screen and what throw distance?
Thanx --
Helcio
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post #736 of 3551 Old 12-10-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by helcio.carvalho View Post

Could you let me know the numbers you got on Nomal mode with the lamp on Normal? How many inches is your screen and what throw distance?
Thanx --
Helcio

I'd rather keep the settings to myself for this one, as this was only for evaluation so I didn't really do my best.
My screen is 130" 16/9. Throw distance 5.40 m.
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post #737 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

I'd rather keep the settings to myself for this one, as this was only for evaluation so I didn't really do my best.
My screen is 130" 16/9. Throw distance 5.40 m.

Hm. It would be nice if you could share -- maybe you managed a tweak no one else did...

BTW, any o'youse over a 500 hr. lamp yet? Any sign of a flicker?
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post #738 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 03:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Ok guys, I am done calibrating this toy. Here is what I think, but first some details about the conditions of the calibration:
- Screen white mat, Gain 1.0
- Bat cave, totally.
- Calman 5 Ultimate software
- Jeti 1211 spectro-radiometer
- Quantumdata QD-780 pattern generator
- ISF Advanced workflow
- All steps, including CMS
At first I checked all presets at their native settings. REC709 was almost dead on, but ridiculously low on light output. 9 fL on low lamp, and 10.5 fL on normal lamp. Dismissed!
All other presets except the Normal preset measured funny. Dismissed!
Opted for the Normal preset.
>>>>>>>>> Now a word for the calibrators among us. This is one of the worst interface I ever had to use for calibration. This is truly calibration hell. A few examples:
- There is no hide button on the remote so you can hide the menu or submenu of a parameter while running a sweep/spot measurement. So for each measurement you have to navigate out and in again to wherever you were. Boy, did I curse Panny today...
- For CMS, I didn't know if I had to laugh or to cry. For every change, you have to 1) apply 2) save to profile 3) save the name of profile 4) navigate out 3 more steps. Imagine that, for each of the 6 colors you have 3 axis. After a few like trials I just ran through and barely averaged everything. This is the dumbest CMS menu I ever saw in my experience.
In the end I managed to get a good picture, sort of (I am very very picky), in the Normal mode with normal lamp mode.
But I gotta say that next time a customer calls me for this Panny projector, I'll get a few aspirins first.

I don't know exactly what it is, maybe it's the hyperbolic writing style, but these conclusions seriously lack credibility and merit in my opinion. Too fast on the trigger and nothing to indicate a careful, thorough approach paying attention to detail.

There's just no way you can "dismiss" this projector as an absolute pile of junk and abomination before the gods, a projector with no redeeming qualities or features. It's an excellent unit for home theater use. I'm not saying that just because I own one; I'm saying that because it is objectively and demonstrably true.
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post #739 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 08:23 AM
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I can understand why you hurt when I write those things.
I am sorry this was not my intention. If you are happy with it then then that's what counts.
You probably missed it but I specifically wrote that this was an evaluation only so I didn't go all the way with the calibration.
But i did go far enough to understand how bad was the interface.
So to resume, this projector has 2 big problems:
- Worst interface for calibration. All those who don't calibrate won't notice of course.
- Boast high numbers for the sake of publicity but in fact if you want to have a decent picture quality you lose a substantial amount of light. Too much compared to the competition.

Other than that the 8000 is a good projector.
It has good 3D, a powered zoom with memory and that places it above its competitors, for those who plan on 2:35 of course.
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post #740 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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Ok, here you are.
But please note that I wouldn't call that a full calibration.
It's better then nothing, that's it.
I attached 3 pics, but forgot Gamma.
So Gamma was set at Simple and -2 for H, M and L.


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post #741 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 02:18 PM
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post #742 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 02:59 PM
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Excellent review! I could have wrote it, I just do not have the talent.
I confirm every word and more.
That guy was gentle when he wrote that the "professional controls" were useless.
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post #743 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 03:08 PM
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Aren't these the same guys who praised the Lexicon BD-30, which was actually an Oppo BDP-83 stuffed inside another housing with a $3000 price adder?
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post #744 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 03:13 PM
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Thanx for sharing, Xtrips.
Once again -- anyone out there over 500 hr lamp time? Any sign of a flicker?
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post #745 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

I can understand why you hurt when I write those things.
I am sorry this was not my intention. If you are happy with it then then that's what counts.
You probably missed it but I specifically wrote that this was an evaluation only so I didn't go all the way with the calibration.
But i did go far enough to understand how bad was the interface.
So to resume, this projector has 2 big problems:
- Worst interface for calibration. All those who don't calibrate won't notice of course.
- Boast high numbers for the sake of publicity but in fact if you want to have a decent picture quality you lose a substantial amount of light. Too much compared to the competition.
Other than that the 8000 is a good projector.
It has good 3D, a powered zoom with memory and that places it above its competitors, for those who plan on 2:35 of course.

Here's the problem: you bluster into an owner's thread posing as a competent professional calibrator...but you don't talk like one. You talk like a guy with some equipment and perhaps enough knowledge to be reckless and dangerous but not informative or enlightening. Regardless of your subjective opinion of the controls, if you can't calibrate this projector to produce a pleasing image then the problem is most likely your skills not the projector's inherent limitations.

I'm starting to get the idea that you might be here just here to troll...I guess I was a little slow on the uptake and took the bait. redface.gif
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post #746 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMenke View Post

Here's the problem: you bluster into an owner's thread posing as a competent professional calibrator...but you don't talk like one. You talk like a guy with some equipment and perhaps enough knowledge to be reckless and dangerous but not informative or enlightening. Regardless of your subjective opinion of the controls, if you can't calibrate this projector to produce a pleasing image then the problem is most likely your skills not the projector's inherent limitations.
I'm starting to get the idea that you might be here just here to troll...I guess I was a little slow on the uptake and took the bait. redface.gif

cool.gif As you please.
"Informative, enlightening", big words. I never said I would review this projector.
I took an hour of my time to tackle this unit and it was enough to find many flaws which I felt the urge to share because of all the hype around it.
Just out of curiosity, did you try to calibrate your unit? Or have it calibrated?
Anyway, you will see more and more of this kind of talk about the 8000 surfacing in the near future.
Those flaws won't go quiet, take my word for it.
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post #747 of 3551 Old 12-11-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMenke View Post

Here's the problem: you bluster into an owner's thread posing as a competent professional calibrator...but you don't talk like one. You talk like a guy with some equipment and perhaps enough knowledge to be reckless and dangerous but not informative or enlightening. Regardless of your subjective opinion of the controls, if you can't calibrate this projector to produce a pleasing image then the problem is most likely your skills not the projector's inherent limitations.
I'm starting to get the idea that you might be here just here to troll...I guess I was a little slow on the uptake and took the bait. redface.gif

+1

The so-called "calibrated" settings shown on those screen shots tell it all.
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post #748 of 3551 Old 12-12-2012, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

cool.gif As you please.
"Informative, enlightening", big words. I never said I would review this projector.
I took an hour of my time to tackle this unit and it was enough to find many flaws which I felt the urge to share because of all the hype around it.
Just out of curiosity, did you try to calibrate your unit? Or have it calibrated?

Calibrated? Nope not yet. Doesn't make sense with less than 100 hours on the lamp and panels.
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Originally Posted by xtrips View Post

Anyway, you will see more and more of this kind of talk about the 8000 surfacing in the near future.
Those flaws won't go quiet, take my word for it.

If competent evaluators deem the projector unworthy, I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is a guy who just learned to light matches running around spilling gasoline in a barn full of hay.
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post #749 of 3551 Old 12-12-2012, 05:23 AM
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+1
The so-called "calibrated" settings shown on those screen shots tell it all.

Frightening.
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post #750 of 3551 Old 12-12-2012, 06:13 AM
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Oh man did I hurt you.
Instead of running wild with assumptions about me and what I do, why don't you try and use your money back guarantie wink.gif ?
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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