Official Owners' Thread, Panasonic PT-AE8000U (US version) PT-AT6000E (European version) - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 3551 Old 10-13-2013, 05:31 PM
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I think some people are much more sensitive to this kind of issue than others. A bit like the DLP rainbow effect - which in over five years of regular use of a DLP I've seen only a few times. How I missed this downside of LCD projectors I have no idea - honestly I didn't catch it mentioned once in all my internet rummaging. I think I was just more focused on finding a highly rated projector that met my throw distance distance constraints.

I have tried it with a few movies. It literally looks like SD content to me. Effectively it's 540p, not 1080p. Probably this exacerbated by typically sitting about 2 screen heights from the screen - closer than normal. I have a "good" reason for this. My wife has an eyesight problem that means she needs a screen that fills her field of view as much as possible. A 120" screen with a ~10 foot viewing distance does this pretty well. But that is close enough for this kind of problem to be very apparent. When we first started doing this it was mostly DVD content and really only the DVD menu in terms of text. Today it's 1080p content, regular use of the Xbox and PS4 dashboards and in-game HUDs. My background as a game developer makes me hypercritical of pixel level issues, especially text. (I like crispy pixels. Decades of staring at them have programmed me to interpret hard, square pixels as sharp and "correct" even though they're their own kind of noise.)

Basically any technology that can't be completely aligned isn't going to work for me. Back to single-chip DLP then - although finding one with a ~1.4 throw ratio at this price point looks tricky. Has anyone any experience of adapter lenses? I should probably ask on a different subforum...
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post #2162 of 3551 Old 10-13-2013, 05:44 PM
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double post
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post #2163 of 3551 Old 10-13-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansyme View Post

I have tried it with a few movies. It literally looks like SD content to me. Effectively it's 540p, not 1080p. Probably this exacerbated by typically sitting about 2 screen heights from the screen - closer than normal.

Basically any technology that can't be completely aligned isn't going to work for me. Back to single-chip DLP then - although finding one with a ~1.4 throw ratio at this price point looks tricky. Has anyone any experience of adapter lenses? I should probably ask on a different subforum...

I would be shocked if something else isn't the cause of this. If in moving footage what you are viewing looks like 540p then something somewhere in your setup is likely wrong (or your projector is faulty) as a one pixel alignment should be only be possibly perceivable on text when sitting even at two screen distances.

In my temporary setup I have been using the ae8000 at around 10 feet from a 92" screen and I actually find the Panasonic in moving footage looks sharper then my w7000 dlp (though the dlp is superior for text). At 120" at your viewing distance you are sitting way to close (which is fine if you would like) but 1080p is not going to be all that sharp (outside of maybe the best of the best references tittles).

I would be checking all your settings and making sure nothing is incorrect there then if the problem is still present try and get a demo at a hifi store of the ae8000. If that still fails I would recommend looking at getting a darbee which can be used to greatly increase the perceived sharpness and pop of an image.

I would also recommend looking at a Darbee. Not the best image below of it in action but it gives you an idea and most places you can buy it have a return policy if you don't like it so it is well worth a shoot.




What are your projector settings set at, also what other components are you using how are they connected and what are they set at?

edit: also it was brought to my attention that with dlp at such distance viewing could actually be a bit worse because rainbow effect is more pervasive with eye movement. I myself cannot see the rainbow effect but this is something you should consider assuming you do go with another projector.

I do think a dlp if you are not rainbow sensitive (or like me rainbow blind) would be the way to go, the thing I think you may be noticing is aliasing (or the perceived aliasing) that can occur with misalignment. I very much so wish they could improve the black levels and release a dlp that costs around $4 to 5k. I'm just imagining all the best things of a benq w7000 combining with all the best things of a jvc and none of the weaknesses. Such a projector would be beyond amazing.
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post #2164 of 3551 Old 10-13-2013, 08:44 PM
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Hi,
How is the Detail Clarity Processor ? Is it similar to the Darbee ?
Thank you in advance
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post #2165 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by evo5 View Post

Hi,
How is the Detail Clarity Processor ? Is it similar to the Darbee ?
Thank you in advance

It is okay(ish), nothing ground breaking. Putting it beyond 3/4 introduces ringing, up to that point it provides a small little bit of sharpness. It is nothing like the Darbee.
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post #2166 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 11:39 AM
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Initially I was standing back at the projector fiddling with the focus. I was using a PS3 directly connected to the HDMI input with the playstation just sitting at the dashboard. By 540p I mean that it seemed like I couldn't get it to focus properly - it was fuzzy and reminded me of badly scaled SD content. It also seemed to have purple fringing, like a lens with visible chromatic aberration. On moving closer I could see the misaligned color channels.

It's kind of infuriating. I did some research on how these projectors work and while I can see where misalignment would creep in, I would have expected part binning and manufacturer calibration to deal with it to the point where you really wouldn't notice it. In my case the error is constant across the screen, so sliding the green channel down a pixel and the red up half a pixel looks like it would fix it in my case.

It certainly isn't as visible with typical movie content. But it doesn't look any better than the old 720p projector either. Video with a lot of overlay graphics (e.g. ESPN) looked poor too.

There probably is some placebo effect at work here. Once I noticed the misalignment it was pretty much impossible for me to unsee it.

Thanks for the help anyway.

BTW the Darbee does look interesting. I don't really care as far as current HD content is concerned, but I assume this would sharpen up old DVD content quite a bit?
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post #2167 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansyme View Post

Initially I was standing back at the projector fiddling with the focus. I was using a PS3 directly connected to the HDMI input with the playstation just sitting at the dashboard. By 540p I mean that it seemed like I couldn't get it to focus properly - it was fuzzy and reminded me of badly scaled SD content. It also seemed to have purple fringing, like a lens with visible chromatic aberration. On moving closer I could see the misaligned color channels.

It's kind of infuriating. I did some research on how these projectors work and while I can see where misalignment would creep in, I would have expected part binning and manufacturer calibration to deal with it to the point where you really wouldn't notice it. In my case the error is constant across the screen, so sliding the green channel down a pixel and the red up half a pixel looks like it would fix it in my case.

It certainly isn't as visible with typical movie content. But it doesn't look any better than the old 720p projector either. Video with a lot of overlay graphics (e.g. ESPN) looked poor too.

There probably is some placebo effect at work here. Once I noticed the misalignment it was pretty much impossible for me to unsee it.

Thanks for the help anyway.

BTW the Darbee does look interesting. I don't really care as far as current HD content is concerned, but I assume this would sharpen up old DVD content quite a bit?

I hear you. I'd send it back, then. No question. What has been seen can often not be unseen... frown.gif
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post #2168 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansyme View Post

Initially I was standing back at the projector fiddling with the focus. I was using a PS3 directly connected to the HDMI input with the playstation just sitting at the dashboard. By 540p I mean that it seemed like I couldn't get it to focus properly - it was fuzzy and reminded me of badly scaled SD content. It also seemed to have purple fringing, like a lens with visible chromatic aberration. On moving closer I could see the misaligned color channels.

It's kind of infuriating. I did some research on how these projectors work and while I can see where misalignment would creep in, I would have expected part binning and manufacturer calibration to deal with it to the point where you really wouldn't notice it. In my case the error is constant across the screen, so sliding the green channel down a pixel and the red up half a pixel looks like it would fix it in my case.

It certainly isn't as visible with typical movie content. But it doesn't look any better than the old 720p projector either. Video with a lot of overlay graphics (e.g. ESPN) looked poor too.

There probably is some placebo effect at work here. Once I noticed the misalignment it was pretty much impossible for me to unsee it.

Thanks for the help anyway.

BTW the Darbee does look interesting. I don't really care as far as current HD content is concerned, but I assume this would sharpen up old DVD content quite a bit?


This is a very basic question, but did you reset the video output settings on your PS3 to ensure is sending a 1080P signal to your PJ?
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post #2169 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 12:53 PM
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Yes I did - no harm checking though!
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post #2170 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briansyme View Post

Initially I was standing back at the projector fiddling with the focus. I was using a PS3 directly connected to the HDMI input with the playstation just sitting at the dashboard. By 540p I mean that it seemed like I couldn't get it to focus properly - it was fuzzy and reminded me of badly scaled SD content. It also seemed to have purple fringing, like a lens with visible chromatic aberration. On moving closer I could see the misaligned color channels.

It's kind of infuriating. I did some research on how these projectors work and while I can see where misalignment would creep in, I would have expected part binning and manufacturer calibration to deal with it to the point where you really wouldn't notice it. In my case the error is constant across the screen, so sliding the green channel down a pixel and the red up half a pixel looks like it would fix it in my case.

It certainly isn't as visible with typical movie content. But it doesn't look any better than the old 720p projector either. Video with a lot of overlay graphics (e.g. ESPN) looked poor too.

There probably is some placebo effect at work here. Once I noticed the misalignment it was pretty much impossible for me to unsee it.

Thanks for the help anyway.

BTW the Darbee does look interesting. I don't really care as far as current HD content is concerned, but I assume this would sharpen up old DVD content quite a bit?


Then I would try and see a show room or demo one elsewhere and see if you got a unit with notable bad alignment that is causing the issue.

I myself don't use a darbee but apparently the better the content the more effective the darbee is, though there has been some debate about this.
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post #2171 of 3551 Old 10-14-2013, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by briansyme View Post

Yes I did - no harm checking though!

Bummer, I was hoping it was something as simple as that. I do have a PS3 (fat one) hooked to the 8000 via a Denon 4311 and the PQ is just great. BTW - I received Beyond: Two Souls and I'm planning to try it today................cool.gif
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post #2172 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 06:32 AM
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Phew, just spent four days reading through this thread whenever I had a spare moment, trying to convince myself that upgrading from the AE7000 will be worth the extra grand or so it'll cost me. Hmmmmm, decisions.
The two things that are worrying me are the color uniformity issue (WilliamG) and crosstalk in 3D. I'm a big fan of 3D and it was the sole reason I upgraded from the 4000 to the 7000. My 7k has obvious crosstalk on quite a bit of content and as mentioned by others it's worse in the colder months, almost disappears in summer. Of course I'm not expecting the unit to be 100% crosstalk free, you won't get that with LCD, but if the 8000 at least performs a little better in this respect then that alone would be worth the upgrade, especially considering the improvement in brightness. Are there any former 7k owners who can confirm that crosstalk is at least slightly better on the 8k?
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post #2173 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by inefekt View Post

Phew, just spent four days reading through this thread whenever I had a spare moment, trying to convince myself that upgrading from the AE7000 will be worth the extra grand or so it'll cost me. Hmmmmm, decisions.
The two things that are worrying me are the color uniformity issue (WilliamG) and crosstalk in 3D. I'm a big fan of 3D and it was the sole reason I upgraded from the 4000 to the 7000. My 7k has obvious crosstalk on quite a bit of content and as mentioned by others it's worse in the colder months, almost disappears in summer. Of course I'm not expecting the unit to be 100% crosstalk free, you won't get that with LCD, but if the 8000 at least performs a little better in this respect then that alone would be worth the upgrade, especially considering the improvement in brightness. Are there any former 7k owners who can confirm that crosstalk is at least slightly better on the 8k?

I have not seen the ae7000 so from experience I have no idea, but if I where you I would not upgrade. The differences in 2d are apparently only slight and the crosstalk is still very obvious with the ae8000. You would be much better of getting a second projector for 3d, which can be had for under $1000 with essentially no crosstalk in a budget dlp projector. Though I understand it may be difficult having two projectors depending on your setup.
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post #2174 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 08:15 AM
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Just a heads up for everyone waiting for their 3D glasses. Panasonic has been out of stock (or so I'm told) due to high demand. I called over two weeks ago to check on glasses that were due to me quite a while back as I sent my form in July. I was told they were shipping on the Friday of the week I called. They were not shipped as they ran out before they could be shipped. I'm told that they will ship tomorrow and I can call to get a tracking number then. I didn't rag too much on the phone rep even though she denied telling me they would ship as she really has no control on shipping and receiving. Seems that Panasonic can produce projectors faster than glasses????

Now, I'll probably get replies to this post of people getting their projector after me and receiving their glasses in short order.
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post #2175 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inefekt View Post

Phew, just spent four days reading through this thread whenever I had a spare moment, trying to convince myself that upgrading from the AE7000 will be worth the extra grand or so it'll cost me. Hmmmmm, decisions.
The two things that are worrying me are the color uniformity issue (WilliamG) and crosstalk in 3D. I'm a big fan of 3D and it was the sole reason I upgraded from the 4000 to the 7000. My 7k has obvious crosstalk on quite a bit of content and as mentioned by others it's worse in the colder months, almost disappears in summer. Of course I'm not expecting the unit to be 100% crosstalk free, you won't get that with LCD, but if the 8000 at least performs a little better in this respect then that alone would be worth the upgrade, especially considering the improvement in brightness. Are there any former 7k owners who can confirm that crosstalk is at least slightly better on the 8k?

I had the 7000 and upgraded to the 8000 especially for 3D. Don't bother. It was like putting another 7000 in my movie room. Was quite disappointed. If you only can do one projector, look at the Epsons if 3D is your primary goal.
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post #2176 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 09:39 PM
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Hello, All.
I recently will become an owner of an 8000 I purchased from a reputable dealer for a steal. I'm excited for my first projector and enjoyed reading through this thread but have a question about "hiding" the projector in a not so typical way.
So my new place will have vaulted 20ft ceilings...so no option to ceiling mount it.
The room it will be in goes back 50 feet so I am purchasing this room divider to place the unit on, http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Karrise-Walnut-Display-Shelf-Bookcase-Room-Divider/5483409/product.html, has anyone ever seen some type of hollow housing that would look like a stack of books or something decorative?? I'm having no luck in my search.
I know I don't want it in a literal tight box and will have to make sure it gets proper ventilation. But I was wondering if there could be something like what I see in furniture stores where they have those fake hollow electronics, cardboard hollow books ect for display. I'm wanting my panny8000 set up to be hidden as this is a living room and the electric screen will be well hidden inside a hollow fireplace mantle.
p.s. has anyone tried the TY-ER3D4MU or are the ER3D3MU the way to go?
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post #2177 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

I have not seen the ae7000 so from experience I have no idea, but if I where you I would not upgrade. The differences in 2d are apparently only slight and the crosstalk is still very obvious with the ae8000. You would be much better of getting a second projector for 3d, which can be had for under $1000 with essentially no crosstalk in a budget dlp projector. Though I understand it may be difficult having two projectors depending on your setup.

Yeah tried that already, I get rainbows everywhere with DLP projectors
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post #2178 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I had the 7000 and upgraded to the 8000 especially for 3D. Don't bother. It was like putting another 7000 in my movie room. Was quite disappointed. If you only can do one projector, look at the Epsons if 3D is your primary goal.

I'm familiar with your issues after reading this thread, sorry but you seem cursed :-)
In regards to the Epson, I don't like the lack of 3d features, especially the lack of frame interpolation in 3d mode. Also, I am really tempted by the increased brightness of the 8k over the 7k. I really only want to know how the crosstalk compares between the two but I'm starting to think it is a highly subjective thing and also varies from unit to unit
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post #2179 of 3551 Old 10-15-2013, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by inefekt View Post

I'm familiar with your issues after reading this thread, sorry but you seem cursed :-)
In regards to the Epson, I don't like the lack of 3d features, especially the lack of frame interpolation in 3d mode. Also, I am really tempted by the increased brightness of the 8k over the 7k. I really only want to know how the crosstalk compares between the two but I'm starting to think it is a highly subjective thing and also varies from unit to unit

I had two 7000s and two 8000s. All four performed EXACTLY the same when it comes to crosstalk. If you want a great projector that's still very bright in 3D and doesn't have any (within reason) annoying crosstalk, and does FI in 3D, look at the Sony HW50. I think the Epson 5030 also does FI now in 3D (but only 24p 3D material, from what I gather reading that thread).
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post #2180 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I had two 7000s and two 8000s. All four performed EXACTLY the same when it comes to crosstalk. If you want a great projector that's still very bright in 3D and doesn't have any (within reason) annoying crosstalk, and does FI in 3D, look at the Sony HW50. I think the Epson 5030 also does FI now in 3D (but only 24p 3D material, from what I gather reading that thread).

I am actually genuinely confused about crosstalk in 3d on the ae8000. I have seen several different units and all produced sub par 3d to my eyes. I however decided to try it out again on the unit I have access to at the moment and crosstalk was practically non existent. Is there something i'm missing as there shouldn't be such a huge variation between units in this area as far as I am aware. Maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but my main grip was no longer the crosstalk when compared with a dlp for 3d viewing (which in the past has always been what it came down to for me), it was the brightness. In fact the only egregious example of crosstalk I came across was one shoot in Prometheus that my dlp also shows ghosting on.

I shall put it through some more stressful footage soon and see if it still holds up (like the lanterns in Tangled or any dark scene in Hugo).
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post #2181 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmReverie View Post

I am actually genuinely confused about crosstalk in 3d on the ae8000. I have seen several different units and all produced sub par 3d to my eyes. I however decided to try it out again on the unit I have access to at the moment and crosstalk was practically non existent. Is there something i'm missing as there shouldn't be such a huge variation between units in this area as far as I am aware. Maybe I am remembering incorrectly, but my main grip was no longer the crosstalk when compared with a dlp for 3d viewing (which in the past has always been what it came down to for me), it was the brightness. In fact the only egregious example of crosstalk I came across was one shoot in Prometheus that my dlp also shows ghosting on.

I shall put it through some more stressful footage soon and see if it still holds up (like the lanterns in Tangled or any dark scene in Hugo).


What you experienced is exactly what I've experienced with 3D on the Panasonics, - that is - extremely inconsistent 3D. The day it put me over the edge was when I was watching Transformers 3 3D Blu-ray with my neighbor. The movie started out as crosstalk-free as you could hope for. After about an hour or so, the crosstalk was so bad we had to turn the movie off. So what happened? Well, the theory is that temperature plays an important part in this. I (and others) tend to think the panels got cooled off TOO much over the course of the movie by the internal fan, but it's just a theory.

It actually makes sense, since if you turn High Altitude mode on (which cranks the fan up), crosstalk becomes terrible within just a few seconds. Turning it off, and 3D goes back to being watchable again. Temperature is the only thing that changes.

Either way, what you experienced with those two projectors is not unusual to me.

If you still have the Panasonic, put on a 3D movie, pause it on a 3D scene, and turn High Altitude mode on. Tell us what you see. smile.gif
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post #2182 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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Yeah take the criticism from WilliamG with a grain of salt.

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post #2183 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 12:17 PM
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So I have only had my 8000 a few weeks, and I love it. The 2D performance is simply outstanding. Gaming performance is also excellent, especially hooked up to my pc with a GTX Titan. Games like Dirt 3 and Metro Last Light are simply astonishing. I didn't even care about 3D until I got it, it was mostly a bonus. Here is what I've noticed. WilliamG is correct - the 3D performance is spotty, but I think this is less an issue with the projector than it is with the content. I don't think temps play an issue, although possible. I doubt the fan would be cooling the panels "too much" if they perform well at room temperature initially. Also I noticed with "Dial M for Murder" (originally shot in 3d) the best 3D occurred in the middle of the movie, towards the end. I have found different picture settings play a large part. As well as getting glasses settings correct, viewing angle, turning the lamp to eco mode, lowering contrast, etc. However it was playing 3D games that gave me an "ah ha" moment.

 

Now, I'm a video editor and animator and I've worked on several 3D films. Every scene in a film obviously has different lighting and setup conditions. Cameras are calibrated differently for every scene. Even more importantly, the lenses are different in every shot, and the 3D convergence has to be corrected separately every time. Even in the BEST 3D films, you are going to get a large variety of 3D effects, to the point where even in IMAX and Real3D cinemas I have noticed crosstalk, ghosting and poor convergence. (For the record, Coraline 3D has some of the best 3d work I've ever seen). It is a very inexact art that many here treat as science. Even small changes in post production can have a major impact on the quality of 3D.

 

So anyway, this makes it very difficult to have "perfect" 3D settings, when even within the same content you are getting various stages of quality, and makes for a frustrating experience at home. So I was testing out games on the PS3 in 3D and realized games are perhaps a better thing to judge 3D performance, because there convergence is consistent- the camera is digital.

 

So I started with Wipeout HD (a hovercraft racing game). It looks amazing! NO ghosting or crosstalk AT ALL. However it doesn't have a great sense of depth, it seems fairly "shallow". Next I tried Killzone 3 - one of the first 3D games for the PS3. And what a different story. It gave me an instant headache. Ghosting and crosstalk on ALL settings. Just horrible. IF you were judging the 8000 on that game alone I would have sent it back. But then I popped in Uncharted 3. And it was like night and day. They must have known what they were doing. So far the single most compelling piece of 3D entertainment I have tested, and I'm not even much of an Uncharted fan. Seriously

 

So in summery, stop judging the projector's faults by the unevenness of 3D material available. The home 3D conversions of popular films are a crapshoot at best. The 8000 is one of the best projectors for the price right now, and its 3D performance is quite good overall. If you start throwing a fit about crosstalk in one scene of one movie I feel sorry for you. This is supposed to be entertainment, so be entertained. Relax.

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post #2184 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mijotter View Post

Yeah take the criticism from WilliamG with a grain of salt.

Normally I wouldn't bother replying to non-constructive posts, but for the sake of educating you please read the following posts from over a year ago regarding the PT-AE7000U which hold true for the PT-AE8000U:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1363959/owners-thread-for-the-panasonic-pt-ae7000u-3d-projector/2880#post_21690306

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1363959/owners-thread-for-the-panasonic-pt-ae7000u-3d-projector/2880#post_21690340
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Here is what I've noticed. WilliamG is correct - the 3D performance is spotty, but I think this is less an issue with the projector than it is with the content. I don't think temps play an issue, although possible. I doubt the fan would be cooling the panels "too much" if they perform well at room temperature initially.

As I mentioned a post back, turn on your "High Altitude" mode in the options, which turns the fan up to compensate for the air being thinner above 4,593 ft (per Panasonic) to keep the lamp cool. You can see the crosstalk get worse and worse over the next ~30 seconds.

I seriously don't understand the backlash when you can reproduce this for yourself. Temperature IS involved. Heck, that's why people even tell you to warm the projector up before watching 3D since crosstalk is at its worse before it's warmed up.

I'm still of the firm belief that Panasonic is simply not regulating the PT-AE7000/8000 internal temperatures correctly, which is causing crosstalk issues I've NEVER seen with ANY other brand.
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post #2185 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 12:45 PM
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You've educated all of us enough WilliamG no need to repost:)

Thankfully I realize that home 3D is nothing but a gimmick to sell more money though.

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post #2186 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 12:54 PM
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You've educated all of us enough WilliamG no need to repost:)

Thankfully I realize that home 3D is nothing but a gimmick to sell more money though.

I don't think home 3D is a gimmick, but it definitely needs work. People's sensitivities to these things also play in here, hugely. My wife hates 3D, crosstalk or no. She doesn't like the flicker or the weirdness of motion etc etc. She just doesn't like it. Can't argue with that.

The Epson 5020 had the best, and most stable 3D I've seen. 240hz (Panasonic/Epson) = much less flicker through the glasses than my current Sony HW50ES at 120hz implementation. But Sony's 3D implementation is at least stable in terms of crosstalk, and that's definitely a good thing. If Panasonic could stabilize the crosstalk issues, they'd have a winner in terms of 3D (better than the Sonys/JVCs). It's actually a shame because I really, really liked the 3D motion on the Panasonic.

I was hoping (for many of our sakes) that Panasonic would up the ante this year at CEDIA, but...

le sigh...
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post #2187 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 01:50 PM
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So I have only had my 8000 a few weeks, and I love it. The 2D performance is simply outstanding. Gaming performance is also excellent, especially hooked up to my pc with a GTX Titan. Games like Dirt 3 and Metro Last Light are simply astonishing. I didn't even care about 3D until I got it, it was mostly a bonus. Here is what I've noticed. WilliamG is correct - the 3D performance is spotty, but I think this is less an issue with the projector than it is with the content. I don't think temps play an issue, although possible. I doubt the fan would be cooling the panels "too much" if they perform well at room temperature initially. Also I noticed with "Dial M for Murder" (originally shot in 3d) the best 3D occurred in the middle of the movie, towards the end. I have found different picture settings play a large part. As well as getting glasses settings correct, viewing angle, turning the lamp to eco mode, lowering contrast, etc. However it was playing 3D games that gave me an "ah ha" moment.

Now, I'm a video editor and animator and I've worked on several 3D films. Every scene in a film obviously has different lighting and setup conditions. Cameras are calibrated differently for every scene. Even more importantly, the lenses are different in every shot, and the 3D convergence has to be corrected separately every time. Even in the BEST 3D films, you are going to get a large variety of 3D effects, to the point where even in IMAX and Real3D cinemas I have noticed crosstalk, ghosting and poor convergence. (For the record, Coraline 3D has some of the best 3d work I've ever seen). It is a very inexact art that many here treat as science. Even small changes in post production can have a major impact on the quality of 3D.

So anyway, this makes it very difficult to have "perfect" 3D settings, when even within the same content you are getting various stages of quality, and makes for a frustrating experience at home. So I was testing out games on the PS3 in 3D and realized games are perhaps a better thing to judge 3D performance, because there convergence is consistent- the camera is digital.

So I started with Wipeout HD (a hovercraft racing game). It looks amazing! NO ghosting or crosstalk AT ALL. However it doesn't have a great sense of depth, it seems fairly "shallow". Next I tried Killzone 3 - one of the first 3D games for the PS3. And what a different story. It gave me an instant headache. Ghosting and crosstalk on ALL settings. Just horrible. IF you were judging the 8000 on that game alone I would have sent it back. But then I popped in Uncharted 3. And it was like night and day. They must have known what they were doing. So far the single most compelling piece of 3D entertainment I have tested, and I'm not even much of an Uncharted fan. Seriously

So in summery, stop judging the projector's faults by the unevenness of 3D material available. The home 3D conversions of popular films are a crapshoot at best. The 8000 is one of the best projectors for the price right now, and its 3D performance is quite good overall. If you start throwing a fit about crosstalk in one scene of one movie I feel sorry for you. This is supposed to be entertainment, so be entertained. Relax.

Covergence isn't locked in games. Admittedly it is a bit of a pain on ps3 to change it, but if you change your 3d screens size when setting your resolution it effects the convergence in games. There is nothing wrong with Killzone 3 on my dlp. Completely ghost free, I shall try it on the ae8000 along with seeing what high altitude mode does tonight.

My point btw was that opther ae8000's for me had been unwatchable in 3d because of crosstalk and the one I currently have access to was extremely watchable and I rarely noticed any crosstalk and what I did see was very minor (which is the first time I have ever said that about an lcd projector). I just am trying to understand how that could happen, could it potentially vary on how good the panel convergence is? I can see its temps effecting the crosstalk levels. I am going to put it through its paces over the weekend and see how it holds up against some really demanding material. But at this stage color me shocked, if this is what the ae8000 unit can consistently do I am beyond impressed. I shall report back with what I find.
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post #2188 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 05:17 PM
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Source material certainly plays a big part in terms of 3d quality and especially crosstalk, read any bluray 3d review and the reviewer will always mention it, so if a movie is plagued with crosstalk issues (Day of the Dead!!!) no projector is going to play that movie without it....though the severity will vary of course
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post #2189 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 05:53 PM
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Well, I had the chance to try out the 8000 vs the 7000 when it first hit and very quickly decided to keep my 7000 as I didn't see it as much of an upgrade if any. I also don't have any issues with 3D on my 7000 or the 8000 I tried. The 3D was great on both units.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #2190 of 3551 Old 10-16-2013, 11:36 PM
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About ready to pull the plug on the ae8000 from either Projector People or AGI. Anyone have insight on either of these companies as far as quality of units they ship and customer service are concerned?

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