Official Owners' Thread, Panasonic PT-AE8000U (US version) PT-AT6000E (European version) - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 3675 Old 12-23-2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Having a blacked out area behind a manufactured acoustically transparent screen is the old tried and true way to avoid reflections from off surfaces that lie behind the screen.
However doing such an application does absolutely nothing to prevent light that is lost passing through the perforation or weaves of such screens.

Two things that plague manufactured acoustically transparent screens are lack of gain and visibly detectable holes or a weave pattern. The ladder also being responsible for Morie issues.

If a black area exists behind a white AT screen, then all of the above issues can be and usually are exacerbated.

If you place a piece of White Milliskin Spandex against the rear of the XD you will greatly reduce the difference between the dark areas the perforations produce and the brighter areas that are non-perforated.

6:05 PM - Edited for silly grammatical errors caused by clueless "Speak to Text" program... rolleyes.gif(..my story & I'm stickin' to it...)


Your advice is 100% incorrect. Having a secondary reflective backing is a terrible idea, as it causes cross pixel light interaction, reduction in resolution and ANSI contrast ratio. A black area must be behind anyone's AT screen.

If anyone would like advice on how to properly spec an AT screen, pm your AVS Sales rep like Mike Garrett or contact us, but spreading misinformation is unhelpful.

Cheers,
Chris
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post #2792 of 3675 Old 12-23-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

are you saying that the XD material doesn't have a great picture? I was actually in the market for the Seymour xd material also because I want to put my center channel behind it. I was under the impression that moiré would be non existent with the xd material cut at the 45 degree angle.

Under the recommended seating distances, the XD has reference picture quality and is used in dozens of mastering studios. Alan Gouger (founder of AV Science) owns two different XD screens. Moiré is impossible with a tilted cut and we've never had a case of it when the material is used at about a 20 degree bias angle or less.

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post #2793 of 3675 Old 12-23-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

As mentioned above, you can mitigate some of the most annoying issues by using a White Backer. Use a dark Backer and you can make things worse.

Completely the opposite. Dark backgrounds behind AT screens for image preservation. Light backgrounds degrade the image completely.

Cheers,
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post #2794 of 3675 Old 12-23-2013, 05:44 PM
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Sorry to derail the thread. Let's keep talking about the 8000 and the occasional screen match-up.

MM, keep your screen delusions to the DIY screen forum where they belong.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #2795 of 3675 Old 12-23-2013, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Sorry to derail the thread. Let's keep talking about the 8000 and the occasional screen match-up.

MM, keep your screen delusions to the DIY screen forum where they belong.

Cheers,
Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Completely the opposite. Dark backgrounds behind AT screens for image preservation. Light backgrounds degrade the image completely.

Cheers,
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Under the recommended seating distances, the XD has reference picture quality and is used in dozens of mastering studios. Alan Gouger (founder of AV Science) owns two different XD screens. Moiré is impossible with a tilted cut and we've never had a case of it when the material is used at about a 20 degree bias angle or less.

Cheers,
Chris

What are the recommended seating distances?

Thanks. Ive been in contact with Jon and Im currently deciding on what size I can go with right now.
Im glad the moire issue is cleared up because I was almost worried by the comments of others.
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post #2796 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscmore View Post

Sorry to derail the thread. Let's keep talking about the 8000 and the occasional screen match-up.

MM, keep your screen delusions to the DIY screen forum where they belong.

Cheers,
Chris

This isn't the "Screens" forum either, yet your not suggesting that all mention of XD be restricted to being on that Forum and kept away from the DIY Screen Forum where for years we have focused on using materials "NOT" specifically mfg for use as screen material... yet that is and has been the stated rule for many years.

An insulting post coming from someone who has direct ties to the Company producing the material involved pretty much says more than I need to. But I feel the need to address your "delusional" insult since all this obviously seems to prey on your mind...or worry your wallet enough to be deemed so insulting.

Your own "recommended" instructions specifically state that a cross cut is necessary to "help prevent" Morie. Yet 99% of people are not aware of such a need, nor is that a practice commonly followed. As such, my comments were based on known observations made by people who just might have had such "Savings" in mind had they known about that issue and were given the option, or hadn't known that such an option was "necessary". Strangely enough, that was never even mentioned once.....by anyone, so in fact Kudos must be given to nezff for his posting of the info...and his restraint and courtesy.

I stand behind my comments, and the motives behind them, which do not include promoting any product I sell, nor involve purposefully trying to degrade anyone else s product...or for that matter....anyone else. If your concerned about misconceptions and misinformation about your product, then make cross cutting something you offer in all cases, and factor in the additional cost...don't make it a "option" at additional cost and then claim someone is spreading misinformation when speaking about instances when such a "suggested" procedure that comes at additional cost is not followed.

In conclusion, if Morie was not an issue even with the current design of XD material, then you would not feel the need to say Cross Cutting was necessary. And if the weave was not visible from the closer viewing distances any wish, you'd state that...yet you do not.

BTW, choose to "follow" me if you wish, but be advised I do not tolerate "Trolling".

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post #2797 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

So users wanting a AT screen should go for Spandex? Users wanting a non AT screen, which way would you suggest?

I don't go so far as to suggest that Spandex is the only viable alternative...just an extremely viable and affordable one that does not have the aforementioned limitations or considerations.
As for suggestions for a non-AT material, that entails many possible choices, and your own needs and circumstances dictate and refine the possible choices. You also know that virtually anything I mention will be of a true DIY nature, so your question is best posed on the DIY Screen Forum...if indeed the further need for such still exists.
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I wouldn't be sitting closer than 12-13 feet ever, so Im assuming that the texture you mentioned wouldn't be a factor?

Not necessarily, as that would depend upon your own eyesight and the ability to focus / resolve the differences in reflected light between the brighter and darker areas of any such AT surface. Some people are blessed / cursed with eyesight that leaves them little choice as to either screen material selection or distance of viewing to compensate. In any case, such aberrations manifest themselves primarily during bright, pastel or mono-colored scenes such as sky-views and other areas where panning of the image sets the texture "in motion". For some, the lack of what is called "Screen Transparency" is intolerable...for others not nearly so much. While such remains within the domain of personal choice, it is becoming more and more an issue with people who demand a pristine image, devoid of artifacts and texture.
Quote:
Is the moire effect an issue only on AT screens?

Almost exclusively.

It should be further noted that the Panasonic's "Smooth Screen" technology helps prevent aggressive morie since the cross hatch of the pixel grid, the aspect that interacts with the weave/hole pattern of AT Screens is markedly reduced. It is not an absolute...but it is an improvement....just as was the advent of 1080p resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan

... The ladder also being responsible for Morie issues.
...
6:05 PM - Edited for silly grammatical errors caused by clueless "Speak to Text" program... rolleyes.gif(..my story & I'm stickin' to it...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AYColumbia View Post

What, you mean like "ladder?" tongue.gif

Sadly....yes.

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post #2798 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post



Your own "recommended" instructions specifically state that a cross cut is necessary to "help prevent" Morie. Yet 99% of people are not aware of such a need, nor is that a practice commonly followed. As such, my comments were based on known observations made by people who just might have had such "Savings" in mind had they known about that issue and were given the option, or hadn't known that such an option was "necessary". Strangely enough, that was never even mentioned once.....by anyone, so in fact Kudos must be given to nezff for his posting of the info...and his restraint and courtesy.


That is one of the most ridiculous statements that I have read. Where are your facts to back up this "99%" statement? Every customer that calls Seymour AV to talk about purchase of XD fabric for his DIY screen is made aware of the recommended angled cut and why it is recommended. It is also listed on Seymour AV's site: http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp It is also mentioned in the Seymour AV screen thread many times. Surely you do not expect everybody to just commonly know this. Some research has to be done.
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post #2799 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Watch out for this guy !



He still watches a B&W TV !
That would be nice if true, but a great many end users have reported otherwise. The leading complaint however is the obvious "texture" or "screen surface presence" that is apparent if one sits closer than older standard seating distances.

Frankly speaking, good 'ol Spandex does XD one better in almost every respect, including AT properties. XD may be a bit brighter, but with the Panny 8K the lessor gain inherent in Spandex apps isn't really any issue at all. Spandex is smooth as a baby's bottom, and a excellent, affordable material that is easy to use and affordable to replace should that Guy above (...or a Relative of his...) squirt some nasty substance on it.

To be fair....many XD users swear by the product....(...although primarily because they know nothing else to judge by...) just be advised that it does exhibit all the same issues AT screens always have, to one extent or another. As mentioned above, you can mitigate some of the most annoying issues by using a White Backer. Use a dark Backer and you can make things worse.

Well I can tell you the black backing behind my XD material doesn't seem to be hurting it at all. No moiré at all, that is "0". As far as weave goes, if I look really close at an all white scene I can pick it out. When I ask others about it they don't know what am talking about and can't see it. I would match rather loose a little light that have a bunch of speakers sittin out in the open.
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post #2800 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 07:00 AM
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Is the amazing black level of PT-AE8000 is only appreciable in a totally dark man cave?
In a fully white-colored living room (and white leather couch too) with ambient light rejection screen such as Black Diamond 1.4 screen, will there be any perceivable black level improvement if I go from the budget Optoma HD25 to the much expensive PT-AE8000?
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post #2801 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

That is one of the most ridiculous statements that I have read. Where are your facts to back up this "99%" statement? Every customer that calls Seymour AV to talk about purchase of XD fabric for his DIY screen is made aware of the recommended angled cut and why it is recommended. It is also listed on Seymour AV's site: http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp It is also mentioned in the Seymour AV screen thread many times. Surely you do not expect everybody to just commonly know this. Some research has to be done.
I agree 100% Jon And Chris were very helpful. Yes there is a up charge for them to cut screen but that is because it takes more material with the angled cut verse a straight cut. I have a 126" wide screen siting 10'6" and have no moire issues. Do I see texture from that distance to that answer I have to say maybe it depends on the scene and if I am looking for it. If I am just watching a movie and not being critical then no I do not see texture. NOW BACK TO OUR AE-8000 THREAD not a bash Seymour thread.
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post #2802 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

That is one of the most ridiculous statements that I have read. Where are your facts to back up this "99%" statement? Every customer that calls Seymour AV to talk about purchase of XD fabric for his DIY screen is made aware of the recommended angled cut and why it is recommended. It is also listed on Seymour AV's site: http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp It is also mentioned in the Seymour AV screen thread many times. Surely you do not expect everybody to just commonly know this. Some research has to be done.

I back my statement up with literally years of experience of having a great many individuals post about XD material on Screens, DIY Screens, Home Theater Builder, etc., and not having the subject of any such information related. If such a solution is something that was introduced as of the last 12-24 months, that might well be a viable explanation. (...seeing that 24 months is about the length of your own membership...) But not everyone frequents the Seymour Thread, and its obvious that quite a few people were not informed, or did not have it's desirability (ie: "need") "stressed" strongly enough to them by whomever arranged a sale.

You and anyone else involved can cease trying to make it seem I'm picking on XD material or trying to impact your sales. Everything I stated is both verifiable and well known, and if steps have been taken to mitigate issues many have had to deal with in the past, then that's only a good thing for all involved on both sides of the XD equation.

........and Merry Christmas.

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post #2803 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 07:59 AM
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Hi all, I hate to interrupt the screen wars... :/

I just bought an AE8000, can anyone give me some setup/setting tips? (or link me, if
theyre already in this thread - nearly100 pages is pretty daunting to wade through)

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
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post #2804 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 08:03 AM
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105" 2.35 Seymour CenterStage XD retractable. The retractable screens are all cut straight-Not on angle. Mitsubishi HC4000. No moire. Lets move back to the AE8000 and discuss this Reindeer poop no Moire. biggrin.gif
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post #2805 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post

Hi all, I hate to interrupt the screen wars... :/

I just bought an AE8000, can anyone give me some setup/setting tips? (or link me, if
theyre already in this thread - nearly100 pages is pretty daunting to wade through)

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Settings are going to be dependent on your viewing environment. They will differ greatly in a completely light controlled room vs a room with windows and ambient light. I would recommend getting a calibration BD like the Disney WOW disk. There are others, but I found WOW to be very straight forward and easy to use.

What is your room like (throw distance, screen, dedicated room or multi-use, etc.)?
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post #2806 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I back my statement up with literally years of experience of having a great many individuals post about XD material on Screens, DIY Screens, Home Theater Builder, etc., and not having the subject of any such information related. If such a solution is something that was introduced as of the last 12-24 months, that might well be a viable explanation. (...seeing that 24 months is about the length of your own membership...) But not everyone frequents the Seymour Thread, and its obvious that quite a few people were not informed, or did not have it's desirability (ie: "need") "stressed" strongly enough to them by whomever arranged a sale.

You and anyone else involved can cease trying to make it seem I'm picking on XD material or trying to impact your sales. Everything I stated is both verifiable and well known, and if steps have been taken to mitigate issues many have had to deal with in the past, then that's only a good thing for all involved on both sides of the XD equation.

........and Merry Christmas.

I have been around for many years. My AVS Sales name is 24 months old. I am very familiar with XD. Back in 2009 I retrofitted a screen frame to accept XD fabric in a tensioned system. I used that screen for a year or two.

I have never sold a single square foot of XD material for a DIY screen. Any customer that has called me to ask about buying XD fabric, I have directed them to Chris. So I have no vested interest in DIY XD fabric sales. Every sale of a DIY XD screen, means one less potential sale of a screen that I might sell. Now you on the other hand have a little more vested in this, because like me every sale of DIY XD fabric, means a painted screen potential sale is gone. While a guy thinking about going DIY may not even consider a factory screen, he very well may have been considering a DIY painted screen, so this probably effects your sales more than my sales. Also, while someone talking on the forum, may not know about slanting the material, he would learn that as soon as he/she tried to buy the material from Seymour AV. I am sure that many on the forum that think about painting a screen, do not know what all is involved with that process, unless he/she does some research. A potential customer not knowing the process for angling XD fabric, is not a reflection on the seller, especially when the seller has a clear cut explanation on their site and explains why to any customer that calls up to purchase the material.

This is not the place for this, but felt that a few facts needed to be pointed out. This is my last post on this matter.
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post #2807 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 08:27 AM
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Settings are going to be dependent on your viewing environment. They will differ greatly in a completely light controlled room vs a room with windows and ambient light. I would recommend getting a calibration BD like the Disney WOW disk. There are others, but I found WOW to be very straight forward and easy to use.

What is your room like (throw distance, screen, dedicated room or multi-use, etc.)?

I've seen the WOW disc mentioned a few times over this site now; I'll go ahead and pick it up.

The room is a living room, and there is some ambient light. IMO it is fairly dim as far as living rooms go (but nowhere near as dark as a dedicated theater room. Throw distance is about 16.5ft. Screen size is 92" diagonal. I made a post with a lot more info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1507175/what-screen-do-i-need-for-my-room-normal-moderate-gain-high-power-room-specs-inside
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post #2808 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 08:34 AM
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Enough with the bickering. Get on topic and stay there, otherwise Santa's bringing you coal! I have connections! biggrin.gif
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post #2809 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sac02 View Post

I've seen the WOW disc mentioned a few times over this site now; I'll go ahead and pick it up.

The room is a living room, and there is some ambient light. IMO it is fairly dim as far as living rooms go (but nowhere near as dark as a dedicated theater room. Throw distance is about 16.5ft. Screen size is 92" diagonal. I made a post with a lot more info here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1507175/what-screen-do-i-need-for-my-room-normal-moderate-gain-high-power-room-specs-inside

I picked up the WOW and Spears & Munsil discs. Ive heard really good things about both.
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post #2810 of 3675 Old 12-24-2013, 06:34 PM
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Ok, I received mine today and huge issue - there is a major pink/purple spot at the bottom! It's internal and not on the lens too. frown.gif It is very distracting and not normal, that's for sure. Probably the lower 10% in the middle of the screen is affected by it.
Anyone ever see this before??!!
Pic:




Now, do I still send in the serial number and UPC from this one and get the $550 rebate and then have Panasonic hopefully fix it or do I just return it to B&H? I would prefer to have B&H just exchange it but when is the deadline to mail in for the rebate?

Also, I turned off the "soap opera" look by turning the frames section in advanced settings to "off"....it still looks like it has it a little though. Is that normal?
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post #2811 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Is the amazing black level of PT-AE8000 is only appreciable in a totally dark man cave?
In a fully white-colored living room (and white leather couch too) with ambient light rejection screen such as Black Diamond 1.4 screen, will there be any perceivable black level improvement if I go from the budget Optoma HD25 to the much expensive PT-AE8000?
please help
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post #2812 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 09:51 AM
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We'll. to my surprise the ups driver delivered my 8000 yesterday. I called and complained and had it two days later.

I also read that Panny is going to bring a 4K projector to CES. That should end the Panasonic pj rumors.
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post #2813 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 09:17 PM
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Ok, I received mine today and huge issue - there is a major pink/purple spot at the bottom! It's internal and not on the lens too. frown.gif It is very distracting and not normal, that's for sure. Probably the lower 10% in the middle of the screen is affected by it.
Anyone ever see this before??!!
Pic:




Now, do I still send in the serial number and UPC from this one and get the $550 rebate and then have Panasonic hopefully fix it or do I just return it to B&H? I would prefer to have B&H just exchange it but when is the deadline to mail in for the rebate?

Also, I turned off the "soap opera" look by turning the frames section in advanced settings to "off"....it still looks like it has it a little though. Is that normal?

Anyone have any ideas what is going on here?
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post #2814 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 09:33 PM
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The panels or the polarizer's are damaged. definitely needs to be replaced, do not send it in for repair if it arrived like that out of the box.
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post #2815 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 11:32 PM
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I've got my XD screen hanging from/clamped (2") to the T-bar ceiling.
Watching Star Trek (2009) in 5.1.
Phantom center, and single rear surround with 3 subs all at their lowest built in cross over.

Very nice.

Nov.14
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post #2816 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 11:34 PM
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I should have paused it...

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post #2817 of 3675 Old 12-25-2013, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The panels or the polarizer's are damaged. definitely needs to be replaced, do not send it in for repair if it arrived like that out of the box.

Definitly. Do not attempt to claim the rebate. Retailer will not authorise a return if the UPC from the box is missing. Personally I would move on and wouldn't bother with a replacement.
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post #2818 of 3675 Old 12-26-2013, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

Ok, I received mine today and huge issue - there is a major pink/purple spot at the bottom! It's internal and not on the lens too. frown.gif It is very distracting and not normal, that's for sure. Probably the lower 10% in the middle of the screen is affected by it.
Anyone ever see this before??!!
Pic:




Now, do I still send in the serial number and UPC from this one and get the $550 rebate and then have Panasonic hopefully fix it or do I just return it to B&H? I would prefer to have B&H just exchange it but when is the deadline to mail in for the rebate?

Also, I turned off the "soap opera" look by turning the frames section in advanced settings to "off"....it still looks like it has it a little though. Is that normal?
You need to send this back ASAP and get a replacement something is wrong. I do not see what would prevent you from doing the rebate with this one's UPC though. Tell them "Hey I sent in for my rebate before I turned it on!" Happens all the time with rebates.
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post #2819 of 3675 Old 12-26-2013, 10:15 AM
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Just curious, why would the focus fluctuate from too good to out of focus on its own? Perhaps it was the movie?
Also, I noticed quite a bit of light going through the screen. How much does adding the black AT screen/backing help with PQ and focus? 10%? 20%?

Nov.14
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post #2820 of 3675 Old 12-26-2013, 02:53 PM
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Fan & temporary blank screen issue : I typically watch in Cinema2 with Lamp set to Eco. However, every now and then the screen blanks out for a few seconds while the fan runs. In about 5-10 seconds the picture resumes and fan stops. When I set lamp to normal fan is on mostly but no blank screen issues. Does anyone else run into this situation?

In Eco I think it happens every 30mts or so. When watching Avatar, it was almost every 20 minutes.

Thanks.

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