Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 3445 Old 10-26-2012, 09:38 PM
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Okay, thank you. The manual states that a quick charge is 3 minutes, but it also says "do not put 3D glasses in fire" so... smile.gif

To be clear I don't think it's a problem with the unit, probably my setup. I had just read that some people had needed the 3d emitter pointed right at the seating position for the hw30.

The picture really is so much better than I had anticipated.

Thank You.
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post #362 of 3445 Old 10-26-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post

I have spent a couple of hours with my HW50ES and have a few initial observations to share. As compared to my RS1, the HW50ES has MUCH lower fan noise - high lamp mode is quieter than the RS1 in low lamp mode. The colours are excellent with the projector set to REF, D65 and BT 709 colour space. Gone are the oversaturated cartoonish colours of the RS1. Light output is tremendous. Low lamp mode on the Sony is brighter than the RS1 in high lamp mode. Sharpness is good. The RS1 and HW50ES have a comparable black floor, however, the Blacks on the Sony are much better in that there is more shadow detail. Motion is much better on the Sony than the RS1 with Motionflow set to Low. On the negative side, I did notice on a 0 IRE test pattern that the lower left corner is brighter, however, this may dim with time, and was not distracting during movie watching. Convergence was not spot on, however, this was easy to fix with the panel alignment feature. I am undecided on RC. I find that even at the lowest setting quite a bit of noise is added to the image which I do not like. I will be testing this out further. Setting MPEG NR to low seems to help the RC induced noise a bit. Overall, the HW50ES is an impressive upgrade over the RS1.

Questions. What are people doing to minimize the image noise created by RC? I have been trying out the Gamma Off (same as 2.2?) and 2.4 settings and seem to have a preference for 2.4. What are others using as the Gamma setting? Note that my room has dark walls/ceiling/floor and the screen is a 10' unity gain Screen Research CP2.

I started with low lamp setting on Cinema Film 1, then adjusted color space to 709, gamma to 2.4, RC to 18, and contrast enhancer to middle. RC noise is noticeable on certain material, but not bothersome enough yet to tweak further.
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post #363 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

An iris, manual, cuts down the amount of light transmitted, it doesn't distinguish between shades of gray or the IRE. So it has no effect on the on off ratio. Its a multiplier. Less than 1 as you close the iris down but it multiplies both the top and bottom numbers and the ratio says the same.When you switch from manual iris to DI, the setting for the manual iris you set is irrelevant. You are not on manual iris. In the service menu one can set various iris levels for the DI I think, but I wouldn't go there but I suppose one could click down the top end opening for DI a few clicks and see what happens. Just don't hit the service menu save button so you can get back to factory. A better solution would be a ND filter.

Just so I understand you correctly, Mark, do you suggest using a ND filter to reduce brightness (if image is too bright overall) so that you can still benefit from the enhanced contrast ratio Sony's DI can provide? As opposed to just using the manual iris on the Sony & just keeping it permanently closed down (to reach a desirable level of general brightness)?
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post #364 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 05:05 AM
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There is no reason why a ND filter couldn't be used to reduce the amount of light equally from blavk to bright white emitted from the projector lens regardless of how processed before emission (wide open iris, closed down iris, dynamic iris), A ND2 filter will reduce the light by 50% though the reduction in light to your eyes won't look like as much because of the log rule. Reflections off the ND filter back towards the lens will reduce the ANSI contrast slightly but will have no effect on on off contrast.

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post #365 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 05:44 AM
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I assume you meant Z2000? I'm upgrading from one too. Can you please comment on how much better the black levels are? Also how is sharpness in comparison as well as fan noise? Are you in Eco mode? I think this pj is WAY brighter than our Sanyo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

I've had mine in the box since Tuesday( the mount won't be here until Monday). I had to see how good it looked so I set it up on a table behind my seating position for now. I'm coming from a Sanyo Z200 and shooting onto a Carada Brilliant White110" (1.4) screen. I just hooked it up and threw on Hugo 3D. I was immediately blown away, just overall way better in every way. The 3D looks at least as good as my local theater which does a very good job of projecting 3D. It's probably even better, but I'm having a problem: I'm losing sync from the glasses. I have to look at the projector to get sync, and when I turn around I get about 5 seconds of truly amazing 3D. I did charge the glasses for a few minutes but other than that I really just got it out of the box. Anyone have any tips...is this just how it is? I'm in the process of reading the manual but I just want to make sure it doesn't sound battery related.

Also, If I wanted to get 2 additional pairs of glasses...what is everyone getting?

BTW, I do hear the noise from the 3D. It's bad enough that I will get the external emitter(which should also fix my sync issue) though I did expect it to be louder.

So far it has exceeded my expectations...those two problems aside.

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post #366 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 06:16 AM
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I am able to get into the service mode...but does anyone know where to turn the emitter strength down while in there?

Is there any documentation on the service mode?
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post #367 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 06:34 AM
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Just wanted to throw this in here. I've had my 50ES set up since Thursday and I couldn't be more happy. I'm coming from a JVC RS40. Right off the bat, the picture is SO, SO much brighter than the 40. I honestly had no idea it would be this big of a difference, but it really is. It's literally night and day (excuse the pun). Second thing that caught my eye was that 3D is absolutely amazing on this thing. I actually don't mind using MotionFlow on Low on animated 3D movies, which is something I was usually very against on other TV models. Ghosting compared to the RS40 is again night and day. 3D on the RS40 is almost unwatchable. I'm using the inexpensive Xpand 103's with the glasses brightness setting at 3. There is a very, VERY limited amount of ghosting in some very difficult parts of movies, but it's only there if you're looking for it. To the untrained eye, I handed the glasses to my wife (who is usually completely against 3D, understandably since the RS40 was so bad at it), and she instantly said that it was 100% better, brighter, smoother, and most importantly, not headache-inducing. Lastly, game mode. On the RS40, fast paced games like Mario, rhythm games or FPS's that require quick reactions were unplayable. With the Sony, the refresh rate is as quick as my Samsung Plasma I have upstairs. I didn't measure anything to get exact numbers, but Game Mode on my Samsung is about 20ms and I can safely say that the 50ES is very close to that. That's a HUGE improvement from the 80-90ms that the JVC offered.


Those are the three features that stood out to me the most. Everything else I mentioned (black levels, color, sharpness) matched the RS40's performance. I can't point a single thing out that the JVC did better. Again, I'm no professional, but I do work with a lot of video (I'm a motion graphics designer) so I do know what to look for. So, so happy with this purchase from AVS.
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post #368 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 07:00 AM
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Anybody that has the emitter buzz problem, shoot me an email and I will give you the procedure for getting the external emitter.

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post #369 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 07:22 AM
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I haven't had much time with it nor do I have a great eye, but I will say this: On the Sanyo any dark scene like in a horror movie were pretty much just large areas of shades of grey, It really started to bother me over the last year. It's complete non issue now. So far I've left RC at default, motion enhance on low or off and mostly have watched 3D. I did throw in the new the new Star Trek and it looked great.. Black levels are improved by a ton. The projector is bright and I turned it down a bit when the white text from one of the start-up screens came on, but it has not been too bright for me on a 1.4 in a mostly black room. Again 3D looks at least as good as the theater. 2d is miles ahead of the Sanyo to the point where I think movies look as they should. I haven't played with all the menus but the fan is very quiet, roughly I would say the fan on high mode is about the same as the Sanyo, but the low mode is quieter. I'll try to be more precise after i spent some time. Actually i just noticed I have an SPL meter in front of me.

Ultimately I was happy enough with the Sanyo after I got my Carada, but the shadow detail and black levels always bothered me. HW50 is a significant improvement in every way except for the the manual lens cap. I don't know if people are putting the cap on every time they turn it off? I would like glasses that I can't see the frames of, as it make me feel a little constricted. They are a little heavy, also. I took them off ten minutes ago and can still kind of feel them on my nose. I'd like to try the Monstervision glasses but I don't wan the two pairs that came with the unit to be useless.

Also, the glasses are keeping sync now. I put the unit up a little bit higher and charged the glasses. The emitter was not blocked at all, but maybe it needed a little more room to breathe.
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post #370 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 07:58 AM
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Thanks phantasm, very useful!!!

I think the issue you had initially with 3d sync is that the pj had to be set up higher towards the ceiling so that the ir bounces towards the screen and then down at an angle towards the sitting area. You said putting it up higher now helped, so that's inline with my theory.

Do you game? Z2000 was incredibly responsive. I measured 16ms. Wonder how the Sony feels in comparison. I know it is going to be slower.

If Sony fixes the buzzing I will likely buy this pj.

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post #371 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Do you game? Z2000 was incredibly responsive. I measured 16ms. Wonder how the Sony feels in comparison. I know it is going to be slower.
If Sony fixes the buzzing I will likely buy this pj.

I'm going to run through the lag tests later today and will post the info. I measured ~30 MS last year with the HW30.
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post #372 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 08:17 AM
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Zombie, thanks. You going to use a CRT as reference?

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post #373 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm going to run through the lag tests later today and will post the info. I measured ~30 MS last year with the HW30.

I'm waiting on your results to make my purchase lol
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post #374 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 12:26 PM
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I also talked to Sony on the phone. The HW50ES projectors ordered from SonyStyle.com were supposed to have the lamps sent out separately and automatically, but there was a glitch. They have since all been sent; I got mine yesterday. They also called everyone affected. So if you heard from them, you should have the lamp soon.
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post #375 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

There is no reason why a ND filter couldn't be used to reduce the amount of light equally from blavk to bright white emitted from the projector lens regardless of how processed before emission (wide open iris, closed down iris, dynamic iris), A ND2 filter will reduce the light by 50% though the reduction in light to your eyes won't look like as much because of the log rule. Reflections off the ND filter back towards the lens will reduce the ANSI contrast slightly but will have no effect on on off contrast.

I understand; I was merely asking you why you were suggesting a ND filter over just manually clamping the iris down. The only advantage to the former I can see is that you can still use the DI, whereas with the latter, obviously, you can't.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but, w/ the 2.4 gain HCHP, the HW50ES is a little bright on a 110" screen with lamp set to 'low'. Using 'Reference' mode. Will probably be better once I get my 119" screen. Also, I was sleepy last night so maybe I was just bothered by too much light.

In 3D, though, I still wanted 'max' brightness setting for the glasses. You really just can't have too much brightness in 3D with the current round of projectors.

Is it true that the PT-AE8000U is really brighter than the Sony in 3D? Does that come at the cost of compromised color accuracy?

Also, zombie10k: will be curious to hear your thoughts about flicker on the Epson 5020. I briefly had an Epson 3010 & don't remember being bothered by flicker as much as the Sony but that is also not a fair comparison b/c the 3010 was dimmer, especially since I only had a 1.1 gain screen back then (& flicker is somewhat dependent on image brightness).
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post #376 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 02:25 PM
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Has anyone else noticed focus shift with warmup on the 50ES? I initially focused it after it was on for 5-10 minutes, but noticed it was significantly off an hour in. Adjusted it again & then it seemed fine for the next few hours.

Typical for most projectors?

I must say: I like that the 50ES has a really fine-tune focus. Unlike the W7000.
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post #377 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 02:47 PM
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Can anyone recommend a ceiling mount for this projector? The one Sony recommends in the manual is no longer available.

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post #378 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 03:34 PM
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Can anyone recommend a ceiling mount for this projector? The one Sony recommends in the manual is no longer available.

Just put mine up with Chief RPA-020 Projector Mount. Seems good enough smile.gif
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post #379 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 04:18 PM
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Ordered my HW50 from AVS it is scheduled for delivery on Monday. What is the extra lamp that I've been reading about? Does everybody get one?
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post #380 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oven View Post

Can anyone recommend a ceiling mount for this projector? The one Sony recommends in the manual is no longer available.

As stated above, we usually recommend the Chief RPA020. If you need any help with mount/drop tube selection, give us a call.

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post #381 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 04:41 PM
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Why is everybody ordering despite the buzzing of the emitter? Will this be fixed by Sony?

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post #382 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Why is everybody ordering despite the buzzing of the emitter? Will this be fixed by Sony?

Sony has already said they will send any owner with this problem an external 3D emitter. Personally I would rather have an external emitter than the internal one. You are more limited with the internal emitter. I am sure that for those that have the buzzing, Sony would exchange their projector if the person absolutely did not want the external emitter.

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post #383 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 07:18 PM
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You have to wonder how the buzzing slipped through QC, pretty funny.

"Hey Roy, do you hear that buzzing sound, I think I heard something, nah it's ok --- boss says we only got 1 day left to box these up"


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post #384 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 08:24 PM
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Is the buzzing resolved in the newest batch of projectors already?
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post #385 of 3445 Old 10-27-2012, 08:36 PM
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I just got through watching tropic thunder on blu ray with the family. This is a really good flick to see just how good the sony really is. In film 1 mode with rc on 20 and darbee on hd45 the picture was stunning. The closeups of the faces were unbelievably life like and razor sharp. The lush green jungle scenes during the daylight were like nothing i have ever seen before . The night scenes in the jungle when the actors were talking had such great detail and deep black levels even my wife noticed just how amazing it looked. ( i never even told her i got a new projector ) now she knows. I am really impressed with picture this sony produces. It is a good step up from my old sony vw85, which just 3 years ago was a top performing projector.

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post #386 of 3445 Old 10-28-2012, 04:25 AM
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even my wife noticed just how amazing it looked. ( i never even told her i got a new projector ) now she knows.

You were game smile.gif. They always find out one way or the other tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Great to hear the HW50 giving such positive reactions, even from those 'not in the know' wink.gif
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post #387 of 3445 Old 10-28-2012, 07:45 AM
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I reviewed the user manual,and have a few important questions:

1) Is there only ONE custom user preset memory to store a custom image preset? If I understand correctly, one can modify any of the existing factory image presets (CINEMA 1 etc) and replace those specific memory settings (losing the original default settings). And then there is a single USER preset that one can additionally toy with. Correct? Im used to having 6 locked factory presets, and 6 user presets! frown.gif

2) If I am modifying a factory image preset (CINEMA 1), and change contrast by 5 steps and exit the menu, Is this going to automatically 'save' the change permanently on that preset, or do I have to specifically go through a set of menus to 'save' and override the prior setting into that memory slot? I prefer the later, so one can test settings momentarily (or for a specific movie) without having to track down what was changed to revert it. (Note: I don't mean revert to default, I want to revert to PRIOR (last saved) setting configuration.

3) Manual has typical disclaimer on 'dead pixels'. Are people getting users with any dead pixels at all on these units? For 4 grand, one dead pixel is enough for me to return it!!!

4) Is the firmware user upgradeable ?

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post #388 of 3445 Old 10-28-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Projector Lad View Post

You were game smile.gif. They always find out one way or the other tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
Great to hear the HW50 giving such positive reactions, even from those 'not in the know' wink.gif
You are right about her being " in the know" She is actually very good about letting me indulge in my hobby. Now i have to buy her something nice,Ouch!

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post #389 of 3445 Old 10-28-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

I understand; I was merely asking you why you were suggesting a ND filter over just manually clamping the iris down. The only advantage to the former I can see is that you can still use the DI, whereas with the latter, obviously, you can't.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but, w/ the 2.4 gain HCHP, the HW50ES is a little bright on a 110" screen with lamp set to 'low'. Using 'Reference' mode. Will probably be better once I get my 119" screen. Also, I was sleepy last night so maybe I was just bothered by too much light.
In 3D, though, I still wanted 'max' brightness setting for the glasses. You really just can't have too much brightness in 3D with the current round of projectors.
Is it true that the PT-AE8000U is really brighter than the Sony in 3D? Does that come at the cost of compromised color accuracy?
Also, zombie10k: will be curious to hear your thoughts about flicker on the Epson 5020. I briefly had an Epson 3010 & don't remember being bothered by flicker as much as the Sony but that is also not a fair comparison b/c the 3010 was dimmer, especially since I only had a 1.1 gain screen back then (& flicker is somewhat dependent on image brightness).

I wasn't recommending use of an ND filter instead of cutting the light output by closing down the iris and/or reducing the contrast. I was just trying to answer some questions about use of a ND2 filter and what impacts it would have.

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post #390 of 3445 Old 10-28-2012, 10:16 AM
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If the 50 firmware is anything like the 30 or 95, you can lower the overall brightness and keep the dynamic iris working by lowering both the IrisOpenReg and IrisCloseReg settings. The reduced iris has a further benefit of increasing the ANSI contrast. Plus, you have the ability to tailor the ratio between IrisOpenReg and IrisCloseReg to your tastes for a more or less aggressive overall iris response.
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