Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3445 Old 11-03-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Oh, on a different note:
Sometimes the 3D emitter on my 50ES resets my Darbee to factory settings. Incredibly annoying.

Just curious if you're using the internal emitter or the external one supplied by Sony for the buzzing issue? Waiting on my components at the moment but will definitely report any issues with the internal once I receive them.
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post #452 of 3445 Old 11-03-2012, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Just curious if you're using the internal emitter or the external one supplied by Sony for the buzzing issue? Waiting on my components at the moment but will definitely report any issues with the internal once I receive them.

Internal emitter. Haven't been shipped the external one yet.
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post #453 of 3445 Old 11-03-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Oh, on a different note:
Sometimes the 3D emitter on my 50ES resets my Darbee to factory settings. Incredibly annoying.
Anyone experience this or have a solution for it?
I suppose I could put some black tape over the IR receiver on the Darbee? Or hide the Darbee? Where is the IR receiver on the Darbee? Is it next to the Power LED?
I have not had any such problems with my darbee resetting. I am using the built in emitter from the sony. My mv glasses however will not stay synced to the sony . Every time i get out of 3d mode and go back in ( 1 min or more ) i have to manually put the transmitter into search mode to find the signal again. The darbee has worked perfectly. Does the darbee only reset when you go into 3d mode on the sony. I would also try moving it somewhere else if possible .

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post #454 of 3445 Old 11-04-2012, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I use auto limited or manual set to about 45 on my 1000ES. Auto limited is what is recommended for dark room environments. Once you start making changes, all bets are off. Frankly, all this playing satisfies certain primedial urges tweakers have and despite the wow did I make it better, when you sit down to watch rather than see changes on a test frame etc, it really makes little difference overall.

Thanks Mark, you are great as always! biggrin.gif
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post #455 of 3445 Old 11-05-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

I finally demo'd a Sony HW50. I am going to post my observations in hope that someone can help clear things up a little bit, because I was hugely disappointed with one important aspect of this unit.
Setup: pitch black room with some ambient light through the back door, which altered black level floor slightly. 15ft PJ distance, 13ft seating distance, 100" Firehawk 1.3 gain grey screen.
I demo'd varied material, mainly Avatar Bluray in dark and bright scenes.
The good first: Very silent fan, very good blacks, great performance on dark scenes, very good contrast overall. Seemed to pop quite nicely, but quite like DLP does. Very bright on high lamp, still spares brightness in low lamp mode. Even Auto IRIS on 'limited' cut down brightness to a level that I would still consider nice and bright.
The so-so: 3D emitter buzzing would drive me insane. Its very loud and noticeable to me, about 4-5 feet from projector on ceiling. 3D overall cut brightness quite significantly from 2D. So much so that I don't think I could enjoy a 3D movie based on the lack of brightness alone. It felt like ~ 30-50% cut subjectively, and this was with the glasses' brightness setting all the way up. The 3D performance in terms of look and feel did not please me. Im not sure I can describe what I was experiencing, but it felt like the image was not clean like it is on 2D. It bothered me, but 3D is not important to ME.
Motion Flow was quite acceptable on Low. On high, I noticed a lot of judder... it was very annoying... every few seconds you'd see the image kind of 'miss' a few frames or something similar to that. I could never watch any content like this. I am not sure if the 'Film' setting had anything to do with this. I think regardless I was only able to reproduce it on Motion (FI) set to high.
The ugly: Sharpness. Very poor to my eyes. We focused and refocused several times and it was of no help. the PJ was definitely focused as good as it could. I looked at the pixel structure up close to focus. I noticed there is no defined pixel grid, so it appears to me that the fill rate is very high in this PJ, which is a good thing, except that I am led to believe it is producing a soft image. Is this in any way similar to Panny's smooth screen? Never seen a Panny, but it sounds like a similar situation here. Can anyone confirm whether the pixel structure on this PJ is indeed lacking a grid, with hard to identify pixels? I put a piece of paper on the screen to eliminate the screen from the equation, and the same thing... no pixel structure, no sharpness.
I come from a Sanyo LCD projector. Its really my point of comparison. It is without a doubt much sharper than the Sony. If I look at the pixel structure on my Sanyo, it is very clear and defined with each pixel 'dot' fully focused, no blending with adjacent pixels. Am I expecting too much from LCOS? I don't like to rely on RC or other artifices for sharpness for various reasons. I will say subjectively with RealityCreation (RC) feature set to 30-50% it brought the PJ to acceptable sharpness comparable to my Sanyo which does not have any sharpness/image adjustments.
Would love to hear from Sony owners with respect to sharpness. This was enough to put me off, and I am now on the fence for a Panny AE8000. Who know, I wonder if smoothscreen is equal in this regards?

gnolivos,

In response to your PM regarding sharpness vs the Z2000:

While I haven't had much time with the Sony, I instanty noticed the Sony is significantly sharper the Sanyo. The Sanyo was extremely forgiving of low quality sources (i.e some of the FIOS channels )and had a smoother image quality. As of now I'm actually thinking this was because the Sanyo was so soft- not overall, but you couldn't get a PC desktop in focus from side to side. I have to play with the settings to see how much RC is influencing this. The Sony does seem to have a slighty more *noisy* picture but I have yet to really get into it. When I do I'll post further impressions.

Also, the colors are so much more vibrant compared to the Sanyo.

Jeff
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post #456 of 3445 Old 11-05-2012, 07:01 PM
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Thanks Jeff. I suspect you are using RC to make this comparison. Yes RC adds a ton if detail as far as I could tell. Gets very sharp. But native sharpness was just not there for me compared to the Sanyo. Turn off RC and watch the Sony for a while, then let me know what you think. Thanks!

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post #457 of 3445 Old 11-05-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Thanks Jeff. I suspect you are using RC to make this comparison. Yes RC adds a ton if detail as far as I could tell. Gets very sharp. But native sharpness was just not there for me compared to the Sanyo. Turn off RC and watch the Sony for a while, then let me know what you think. Thanks!

For everyone having the softness and focus uniformity problem: does it completely go away with RC on? If so, with RC on isn't it suddenly a non-problem? Aren't you instantly left with the sharpest projector around? (That's what Art at projectorreviews said anyway.)

Here's his quote:
"Using Reality Creation can take detail and sharpness to essentially new levels for a 2K projector. Just remember, there are always some trade-offs. Still, I doubt if even a particularly good under $5K single chip DLP will look sharper, even if one technically is, as DLP's have an inherent advantage. RC will let you think you have the sharpest projector out there."

please tell me if even with RC on the Sony is not sharp and/or lacks uniformity. Or if Art is right.
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post #458 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 08:05 AM
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From my observation during a 2 hour tweak session the RC adds a LOT if sharpness. Looks great in that regard. Even the lowest level adds considerable sharpness. Highest level possibly adds too much. It's more than just sharpness. It's like bringing out more resolution (trickery).

The downside is that it adds noise to plain colored areas like skies etc.

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post #459 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 09:08 AM
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Where are you guys buying the Sony 50es thanks.

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post #460 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jsil View Post

Where are you guys buying the Sony 50es thanks.
Contact Mike here at Avs. There is no better place to buy one.

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post #461 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 09:59 AM
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Definitely give Mike at AV Science a call. He will take the time to answer any questions you may have pre-purchase, and will take care of you after the final sale.
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post #462 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 10:48 AM
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Jumping on the Mike G. bandwagon...he has gone above and beyond with my particular install and you can't go wrong with AV Science as far as I'm concerned. I just received my HW50ES and the experience could not have been better! Thanks again Mike!

Just in case you missed it, here is his contact info:

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
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post #463 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 11:41 AM
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Hi,

got my production unit here in Germany since last friday. Haven't played much since I've been ill.

I had initially a lamp flickering issue in low lamp mode. Viewed 3D in high lamp for a while and then turned again to low lamp and I saw no flickering anymore, but I fear it'll come back. And I'm not the only one reporting that issue with a totally new lamp.

Has anyone here had such an issue?

Unfortunately I got also the buzzing noise, but it's not as loud as we heard it on the preproduction unit I had for testing.


Can someone tell me the key combination on the remote to get into the service menu? I want to explore all the options you have there.

Christian
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post #464 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 03:40 PM
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Mike at AVS is the place to purchase the HW50. Gave him my room info and he helped me out with a ceiling mount and how far back to place the projector. Very easy to talk to with lots of information. Received mine last week. Packaging was great. Double boxed. No way it was going to get damaged during delivery. No stress over this purchase. smile.gif.

BTW I'm enjoying my new projector!! It's been over 6 years since my last upgrade. Now that I have found AVS I know it will not be so long between upgrades. biggrin.gif
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post #465 of 3445 Old 11-06-2012, 04:09 PM
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I'm curious what all of you are doing for extra glasses. I've been using the ones that come with the projector but I need 2-3 more pairs. The TDG-PJ1's that come with the unit work and look great, but they kind of actually hurt my nose a little and I wish the lenses were a little taller. Also, I have a 3-year-old and a 6-year old so I would like smaller glasses. I think what I'm going to do is just get another pair of the TDG-PJ1's and do theTDG-BR50's for the kids(with the filters Zombie has pointed to). I would get the Monstervision glasses but I'd kind of like to use the internal emitter(I can hear the buzz-but it's not too bad). My other concerns with the Monstervisions are that (looking at the thread in the 3D forum), the recent batch doesn't seem to hold a charge for some people, and they sort of seem like they are being discontinued. My questions are:

Does Sony have something better coming out for glasses?
Are there any "supported" Sony kids glasses coming?
Do the BR50's(filters installed) work as well as the PJ1's or is it shoddy?
Any other comments?

I'll end up with 4-5 pairs of glasses total and plan on watching as much 3D as possible. It just looks so awesome on this projector. I was worried about ghosting being an issue for me and it totally has not been. We've watched all of Prometheus and large chunks of other mainstream movies(RE, Madagascar, Avengers and Hugo). It's a non-issue for me. There was one "other" title that had severe ghosting but I'll attribute that to being a non-mainstream movie taking place in a jail. smile.gif I'm assuming it is an authoring/filming issue. Turning the brightness down mostly got rid of it.

Thanks
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post #466 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

I'm curious what all of you are doing for extra glasses. I've been using the ones that come with the projector but I need 2-3 more pairs. The TDG-PJ1's that come with the unit work and look great, but they kind of actually hurt my nose a little and I wish the lenses were a little taller. Also, I have a 3-year-old and a 6-year old so I would like smaller glasses. I think what I'm going to do is just get another pair of the TDG-PJ1's and do theTDG-BR50's for the kids(with the filters Zombie has pointed to). I would get the Monstervision glasses but I'd kind of like to use the internal emitter(I can hear the buzz-but it's not too bad). My other concerns with the Monstervisions are that (looking at the thread in the 3D forum), the recent batch doesn't seem to hold a charge for some people, and they sort of seem like they are being discontinued. My questions are:
Does Sony have something better coming out for glasses?
Are there any "supported" Sony kids glasses coming?
Do the BR50's(filters installed) work as well as the PJ1's or is it shoddy?
Any other comments?
I'll end up with 4-5 pairs of glasses total and plan on watching as much 3D as possible. It just looks so awesome on this projector. I was worried about ghosting being an issue for me and it totally has not been. We've watched all of Prometheus and large chunks of other mainstream movies(RE, Madagascar, Avengers and Hugo). It's a non-issue for me. There was one "other" title that had severe ghosting but I'll attribute that to being a non-mainstream movie taking place in a jail. smile.gif I'm assuming it is an authoring/filming issue. Turning the brightness down mostly got rid of it.
Thanks

I use the Sony Playstation 3 3D glasses for guests and son, Monster Visions for myself, wife, and anyone I can trust not to break them smile.gif
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post #467 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

Do the BR50's(filters installed) work as well as the PJ1's or is it shoddy?

Thanks

The BR50's work perfect with the filters.. they snap in nice and tight. 3D performance is identical to the PJ1's.

I just ordered 4 more filter kits because I'm not sure how long Sony will carry these filters.
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post #468 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 05:18 PM
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Sony's official stance is that the BR50s are not compatible and they have discontinued them. They work just fine and they are perfect for small kids to preteens.

The PRJ1s are basically the 250s with the filter built in. The PS3 glasses also have the filters built in but they are not as comfortable.

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post #469 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 05:52 PM
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I wish Sony would make glasses as comfortable as the MV glasses. When i put the sony glasses on after taking of the MV glasses it feels like my head is in a vice, and i do not have an usually large head.

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post #470 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 05:55 PM
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I felt the same way with the JVC glasses compared to the MV glasses (MV glasses much better). I wonder if you can stretch them slightly?
What I had to do with the JVC glasses was angle them on my nose so they wouldn't squeeze my head as much (hence move the frame upward toward top of head down towards nose).


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post #471 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan webster View Post

I wish Sony would make glasses as comfortable as the MV glasses. When i put the sony glasses on after taking of the MV glasses it feels like my head is in a vice, and i do not have an usually large head.

+1, a good example of near perfect factory glasses are the new Epson 5020 RF glasses. Very light and fit great.

The Xpand 104's are also nice glasses as well and work well with the HW50.

shootout-glasses.jpg
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post #472 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 06:23 PM
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Thanks everyone! I just ordered the filters (x2) and a pair of the BR50's and one more set of the TDG-PJ1's. Hopefully Sony comes out with something better. I find it strange that they would discontinue the kid size glasses.

Will the XPand104 work with the Sony emitter?
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post #473 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

Thanks Jeff. I suspect you are using RC to make this comparison. Yes RC adds a ton if detail as far as I could tell. Gets very sharp. But native sharpness was just not there for me compared to the Sanyo. Turn off RC and watch the Sony for a while, then let me know what you think. Thanks!

How bad was the convergence on the sample you saw, the lens on the Sony is only one factor, I think a FEW people might be seeing bad convergence samples and assuming just because the Sony lens isn't known to be the sharpest that this is how ALL Sony's look. I've seen bad samples of JVC, Sony, Epson, over the years, no NON-DLP projector is safe from a bad convergence sample. Zombie had an RS-40 (or RS-50) that wasn't as sharp as it should have been, so even a JVC can lack sharpness if you get unlucky with the sample. I saw an RS-20 that looked more like a 480p projector in sharpness because the convergence was off so bad, but in general the JVC's are sharp and most have good convergence. I owned an Epson 8500ub that was a joke in convergence, yet my friend's 8700ub and 5010 are very good in convergence, but he had to swap the 5010 for another, etc...

Convergence has gotten better over the years for sure and it is less often we get bad samples, but they are still out there.

I know the lens on the Sony is not as perfect as the JVC, but how much of this is really the lens vs. people getting bad convergence?


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post #474 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

Thanks everyone! I just ordered the filters (x2) and a pair of the BR50's and one more set of the TDG-PJ1's. Hopefully Sony comes out with something better. I find it strange that they would discontinue the kid size glasses.

Will the XPand104 work with the Sony emitter?

The Xpand 104's will work perfect with the Sony emitter. It must be programmed first (since they are universal) but it only takes a minute to set it up.
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post #475 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 08:20 PM
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Zombie,
Would you recommend trying the Xpand 104 over an additional pair of PJ1's? Is the image quality/3D as solid? Are there any downsides? I do find the PJ1's uncomfortable and a bit too short. I didn't realize there were universal glasses that didn't require their own transmitter.
Thanks,
Jeff
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post #476 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

Zombie,
Would you recommend trying the Xpand 104 over an additional pair of PJ1's? Is the image quality/3D as solid? Are there any downsides? I do find the PJ1's uncomfortable and a bit too short. I didn't realize there were universal glasses that didn't require their own transmitter.
Thanks,
Jeff

jeff - hi, the Xpand 104's perform the same way in regard to ghosting performance as the PJ1's. The only slight downside is that the tint color is a bit different than the Sony glasses, so you may notice a slight cast towards yellow/green when quickly going back and forth between the Sony glasses and Xpand 104's. It's very subtle and no one is likely going to notice. (I have a dozen different 3D glasses for my various 3D projectors so I zone in on these small details).

Overall I would recommend them since they are more comfortable than the PJ1's. The Monster Vision 3D's are also great, but can be a little fragile and wouldn't hand them to teenagers or kids. They are very comfortable and it only takes a few minutes to 'tune' them for the HW50. It's not as easy as tuning the Xpand 104's, but you'll get the hang of it after a few minutes and once it's set, they are good to go.

The BR50's are great for kids 6-12, I just ordered a few more + filters to keep around since I don't think they will be around for much longer. For some reason, getting kids 3D glasses is harder than you'd think for the other 3D projectors out there.
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post #477 of 3445 Old 11-07-2012, 10:22 PM
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Is the Ghosting always the same with the xpand and monster? Any difference regarding brightness?
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post #478 of 3445 Old 11-08-2012, 01:01 AM
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If people didn't see Zombie's pic from the other thread about sharpness, check this out:
(The Sony looks pretty sharp if the convergence is good where the focus is in synch, even if closeup the pixels are not resolved as finely)

Now this is just a picture, so I could be wrong, but if you get a Sony that really lacks sharpness, I would check convergence and exchange it, because this looks better than I expected as far as sharpness from the Sony. You need to find the optimal focal point to focus the image (this is not always the same for every projector). Often it might be 1/3rd out from the left side or 25% out, but you might try 1/3rd out from the right side as well (since the Sony lens is non-uniform). I would keep trying to re-focus based on differing points on the screen to mush out as much of the focus uniformity error as possible.

HW50vsRS55.jpg


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post #479 of 3445 Old 11-08-2012, 09:19 AM
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@Coderguy - I noticed your post here on testing JVC convergence. I was wondering if the process would be similar with the Sony HW50ES or if there's any differences I need to take into consideration? Thanks.
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post #480 of 3445 Old 11-08-2012, 10:44 AM
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someone knows if we can use this projector with Nvidia 3D Vision 1080p ?
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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