Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3479 Old 11-18-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazza B View Post


2. The motionflow is great set to low - high looks unnatural. A little strangely though changing motionflow from low to high while in 3D doesn't seem to make any difference - it feels like it's on high all the time. Turning it off definitely makes a difference of course. Maybe I've not set a parameter properly but as it stands the interpolation which is so subtle in 2D feels a little overcooked in 3D. Any suggestions?
Cheers

That's an interesting observation, I think I am seeing the same thing. It looks like the FI in 3D is a little more aggressive in low mode than it is in 2D.
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post #542 of 3479 Old 11-18-2012, 05:14 PM
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That's what I think - however it's maybe just a bit less than the normal 'High' setting, it doesn't look as unnatural as 'high' in 2D. During pans, credits etc I could see no difference between the low/high modes in 3D.

Perhaps it's amped up a little to a standard level to compensate for motion in 3D. If so that's a bit of a shame as it feels just a bit too smooth. For animation in 3D if wouldn't be an issue really.
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post #543 of 3479 Old 11-18-2012, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazza B View Post

I have the high pitched buzzing in 3D - however it's pretty quiet and having watched Prometheus I didn't hear the buzzing once during the film (sat 3 feet away). However sat to the left it's a little louder. Definitely louder when glasses brightness set to 4 (I had it on 2 for the film). I really doubt you'd notice it in general during film watching.

Would you mind sharing your serial # (not the exact number, just a roundabout figure)?

I am interested in this projector but would rather buy one from a "corrected" batch instead of dealing with the buzz.

And, are you planning to contact Sony to see if you qualify for the free emitter? If you do, let us know how that goes.

Thanks a bunch.

Are there any owners here who DON'T have the buzz? If so, what are your serial #s?
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post #544 of 3479 Old 11-18-2012, 05:50 PM
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Hi

The serial number is well over # 200.

Re. The buzzing to be honest it's pretty quiet and I only noticed it two feet from the unit if I sat on the left side while muting the amp. I can live with it fine. Others may well have worse units. It's much quieter than my ps3 slim while playing a disc.
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post #545 of 3479 Old 11-18-2012, 10:38 PM
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I am considering this projector. I am coming from an Infocus 7205 (yeah I keep my projectors for a long time). My screen is 110" Stewart Firehawk. Would this be an acceptable combination. It has been a good fit for my previous projector / room and I'm not really wanting to upgrade both at this time. What issues, if any, would I have. thanks.

I'm Jeff and I approve this message.
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post #546 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Eventually the lamp will settle down. I had 3 vw95's an they all did this when the lamp was relatively new.

I have the same problem with my hw50es, sometime I do notice a lamp flickering in eco mode, my lamp is now about 90h, How many hours passed after your lamp settle down?
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post #547 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

I am considering this projector. I am coming from an Infocus 7205 (yeah I keep my projectors for a long time). My screen is 110" Stewart Firehawk. Would this be an acceptable combination. It has been a good fit for my previous projector / room and I'm not really wanting to upgrade both at this time. What issues, if any, would I have. thanks.

i'm coming from a 7210 that has around 900hrs.. as its not used much... our screen is 115'' screen research 0.95 gain... n its used 90% for hdtv, mostly sports, n 10% watchin movies.. we still even using component cable as when we built the bat cave 7yrs ago, could not get a hdmi cable that would work.... just wondering how the 50 handles sports..fast panning.. thanks
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post #548 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by evilution View Post

Just put mine up with Chief RPA-020 Projector Mount. Seems good enough smile.gif

Using this mount, is it easy to replace the lamp in the projector (I would get a tube to drop my projector about 1 foot from the ceiling)? Or does the projector need to be unmounted (or tilted somehow) to replace the lamp?
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post #549 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:09 AM
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Sorry if this has been asked already but I haven't had time to read through all the thread yet. Can anyone confirm that the Sony will do anamorphic support in 3D mode? I'm using a Panamorph 480 Horizontal Expansion lens. Thanks!
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post #550 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:30 AM
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Hi,

unfortunately the HW50 does in 3D ONLY the horizontal squeeze, NOT the vertical stretch!! Therefore its nearly useless and I can't understand this. You even find this in the manual: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VPLHW50ES.pdf p.87: the table under "3D" V Stretch seems to work only with simulated 3D!
This doesn't make any sense!

Christian
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post #551 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:48 AM
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Well that just sux! I wonder if they can fix that via a firmware update? What is simulated 3D? Is that Sony's iteration of 2D to 3D conversion?
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post #552 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:58 AM
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Yes it's the useless 2D to 3D conversion....

I think they could fix it, but won't do it...

As far as I understood there are no regular FWupdates with Sony projectors and you can't do it yourself either.

What BD-player do you have? An Oppo can do the v-stretch itself, even in 3D I think.

Christian
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post #553 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

Yes it's the useless 2D to 3D conversion....
I think they could fix it, but won't do it...
As far as I understood there are no regular FWupdates with Sony projectors and you can't do it yourself either.
What BD-player do you have? An Oppo can do the v-stretch itself, even in 3D I think.

I have the Panasonic DMP-BDT210. I don't think that can do it. Is there any others that can do the V-Stretch besides the Oppo? I've read video processors can but they're kinda expensive.
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post #554 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 04:10 PM
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Has anyone received their Free Lamp that was supposed to ship last week?
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post #555 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 04:21 PM
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Any Youtube video's of this projector yet that are NOT in German??? There are quite a few video's of this projector on youtube, but every video is in German!
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post #556 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tehotaone View Post

Has anyone received their Free Lamp that was supposed to ship last week?
no hopefully they'll arrive soon. I have 200 hours on mine.

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post #557 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
I am considering this projector. I am coming from an Infocus 7205 (yeah I keep my projectors for a long time). My screen is 110" Stewart Firehawk. Would this be an acceptable combination. It has been a good fit for my previous projector / room and I'm not really wanting to upgrade both at this time. What issues, if any, would I have. thanks.

I don't have a Sony HW50, I have a SIM Lumis, but I'm using a Firehawk. I wouldn't think you would have any problem with that screen.

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post #558 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by randman View Post

I need an HDMI cable with length between 30 to 35 feet. I was thinking of getting the Monoprice Redmere Ultra Slim cable. The cable has gotten great reviews. However, someone's reviews in
the cable's review page itself specifically complained about the cable not working with the VPL-HW50ES. Does anyone have any good recommendations for an HDMI cable this long? Obviously, a high speed cable that can handle 1080p and 3D is a minimum. Ideally, one that can meet the latest specs (also, preferably one that can handle 4K if and when it ever comes about, so I wouldn't have to switch cables in the future).
Thanks.

I have a 30ft Redmere slim (not ultra) and it works without issue. I'm using it for 3d from my dual-hdmi-out Panny player. It's PID#9170 on Monoprice.
Jeff
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post #559 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Grazza B View Post

Hi
The serial number is well over # 200.
Re. The buzzing to be honest it's pretty quiet and I only noticed it two feet from the unit if I sat on the left side while muting the amp. I can live with it fine. Others may well have worse units. It's much quieter than my ps3 slim while playing a disc.

I wonder if Sony just lowered the IR emitter power in later units. My #1100196 HW50 seems to have a slightly less loud buzz compared to my earlier #1100001 unit. But maybe that's just my imagination (I never compared them side to side).

In the service menu, what is the IR emitter power initially set to for all you guys?
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post #560 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

That's an interesting observation, I think I am seeing the same thing. It looks like the FI in 3D is a little more aggressive in low mode than it is in 2D.

Maybe this has to do with the # of frames that are being interpolated in 3D vs. 2D. In 2D, depending on whether you're using 2:2, 3:3, 4:4, or 5:5 pulldown, you'll have the option of interpolating 1, 2, 3, or 4 frames in between each original frame on the 24p Blu-Ray, respectively. But the lamp modulation graphic that Sony provides shows 240Hz processing for 3D. If you draw this out, for the first 1/24s, you have 6 Left frames & 6 Right frames. So maybe they're just interpolating more frames. Of course, they could do that for 2D as well if they ran 2D at 240Hz... just conjecturing out loud here.

BTW have you guys noticed that with 60p content like Planet Earth's 2011 release Motion Enhancer barely seems to do anything? I'm assuming this is b/c with 60p content there aren't that many frames you can interpolate if you're running at 120Hz...?
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post #561 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:37 PM
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Any owner of HW50 has already get the free external emitter from Sony?

Searched the entire thread but have not found any information on this.
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post #562 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dupin67 View Post

Any owner of HW50 has already get the free external emitter from Sony?
Searched the entire thread but have not found any information on this.

Yes I received mine last week. I had called Sony Customer Support & reported the buzz problem.
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post #563 of 3479 Old 11-19-2012, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by phantasm View Post

I have a 30ft Redmere slim (not ultra) and it works without issue. I'm using it for 3d from my dual-hdmi-out Panny player. It's PID#9170 on Monoprice.
Jeff

I ordere the 40' Ultra Slim (9431).. I'll report howmthenwork out. Hoping them reviewe was an anomaly.
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post #564 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Maybe this has to do with the # of frames that are being interpolated in 3D vs. 2D. In 2D, depending on whether you're using 2:2, 3:3, 4:4, or 5:5 pulldown, you'll have the option of interpolating 1, 2, 3, or 4 frames in between each original frame on the 24p Blu-Ray, respectively. But the lamp modulation graphic that Sony provides shows 240Hz processing for 3D. If you draw this out, for the first 1/24s, you have 6 Left frames & 6 Right frames. So maybe they're just interpolating more frames. Of course, they could do that for 2D as well if they ran 2D at 240Hz... just conjecturing out loud here.
BTW have you guys noticed that with 60p content like Planet Earth's 2011 release Motion Enhancer barely seems to do anything? I'm assuming this is b/c with 60p content there aren't that many frames you can interpolate if you're running at 120Hz...?

Hi, that could well be the issue I guess - for me what seems a little odd is that I cannot see any difference at all between low and high in 3D, whereas its obvious in 2D. Anyone else have a different experience? I wonder if that was also the case for the HW30. Taking the Toy Story 1 3D blu-ray, panning shots were identical in terms of smoothness in low/high. Maybe it just has one setting for 3D in reality, as you say because there's so much information to decode.

I have to say that I'm blown away by the unit as a whole - when a new bit of kit arrives you worry about all kinds of issues (dead pixels, uniformity etc) but right from the moment it came out of the box it felt like a serious bit of kit.
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post #565 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

But the lamp modulation graphic that Sony provides shows 240Hz processing for 3D. If you draw this out, for the first 1/24s, you have 6 Left frames & 6 Right frames.
No that's not correct. Those values like "240 Hz" are misleading. It means that the Sony needs 1/240th second to completely show one frame. So a full frame can only be shown every 2/240th seconds or 1/120th seconds, that means the Sony, like nearly all other shutter projectors can show 120 fps or 120Hz max. Otherwise they would do triple flash and show every 24p frame 3x per eye and you won't have any flickering behind the glasses.
With 120 Hz, this is 60 Hz per eye, 24p-material can only be shown with 48 Hz per eye, otherwise you'll need a 3:2 pulldown (which is what Epson does for example, they can also only show 120 fps btw.).
So if no 3:2 pulldown is done, you can only create ONE interpolated frame per eye. I think that the difference between FI low and high in 3D is, that in high, there's always one frame interpolated, and in low only in some scenes (slow pans for example).
In my opinion it would be possible to do a 3:2 pulldown in high mode and smooth it via frame interpolation but it seems that Sony isn't doing this.

With natural 60p material in 3D there is no possibility for any frame interpolation because as I stated, 60p per eye is the maximum no. of frames that can be shown, that's why you don't see any effect.

PS: Even if the Sony could do 240 fps, you'd only have 5 frames per eye at the max. not 6! So one original and 4 interpolated ones. Thats what it possible in 2D with 24p material, there it's possible to generate max. 4 interpolated frames. But I don't know what Sony is doing here exactly.

Christian
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post #566 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

No that's not correct. Those values like "240 Hz" are misleading. It means that the Sony needs 1/240th second to completely show one frame. So a full frame can only be shown every 2/240th seconds or 1/120th seconds, that means the Sony, like nearly all other shutter projectors can show 120 fps or 120Hz max. Otherwise they would do triple flash and show every 24p frame 3x per eye and you won't have any flickering behind the glasses.
With 120 Hz, this is 60 Hz per eye, 24p-material can only be shown with 48 Hz per eye, otherwise you'll need a 3:2 pulldown (which is what Epson does for example, they can also only show 120 fps btw.).
So if no 3:2 pulldown is done, you can only create ONE interpolated frame per eye. I think that the difference between FI low and high in 3D is, that in high, there's always one frame interpolated, and in low only in some scenes (slow pans for example).
In my opinion it would be possible to do a 3:2 pulldown in high mode and smooth it via frame interpolation but it seems that Sony isn't doing this.
With natural 60p material in 3D there is no possibility for any frame interpolation because as I stated, 60p per eye is the maximum no. of frames that can be shown, that's why you don't see any effect.
PS: Even if the Sony could do 240 fps, you'd only have 5 frames per eye at the max. not 6! So one original and 4 interpolated ones. Thats what it possible in 2D with 24p material, there it's possible to generate max. 4 interpolated frames. But I don't know what Sony is doing here exactly.


IIRC in 2D, the low setting is interpolating one frame between every orginal frame and the high setting 3 interpolating frames between.

dj
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post #567 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by randman View Post

I ordere the 40' Ultra Slim (9431).. I'll report howmthenwork out. Hoping them reviewe was an anomaly.

I bought two of these cables # 9430 believing that the first one I stuck in the wall was defective, there is nothing to do with this model RedMere cable, it is incompatible with the Sony VPL-HW50ES
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post #568 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 05:58 AM
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I bought two of these cables # 9430 believing that the first one I stuck in the wall was defective, there is nothing to do with this model RedMere cable, it is incompatible with the Sony VPL-HW50ES

Interesting. Phantasm reported (above) that his 30' ultra (non-slim) worked okay. I suppose I can try that if I have trouble with the ultra slim version.
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post #569 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by sarangiman View Post

Yes I received mine last week. I had called Sony Customer Support & reported the buzz problem.

Thanks for the info.


Another quesiton, does some one know whether the Panasonic TY-EW3D3 glasses work with HW50?

Amazon China offers these Panasonic glasses at 41US$ per pair. Should be much cheaper than Sony TDG-PJ1 glasses (which are >100US$).
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post #570 of 3479 Old 11-20-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by audiohobbit View Post

No that's not correct. Those values like "240 Hz" are misleading. It means that the Sony needs 1/240th second to completely show one frame. So a full frame can only be shown every 2/240th seconds or 1/120th seconds, that means the Sony, like nearly all other shutter projectors can show 120 fps or 120Hz max. Otherwise they would do triple flash and show every 24p frame 3x per eye and you won't have any flickering behind the glasses.
With 120 Hz, this is 60 Hz per eye, 24p-material can only be shown with 48 Hz per eye, otherwise you'll need a 3:2 pulldown (which is what Epson does for example, they can also only show 120 fps btw.).
So if no 3:2 pulldown is done, you can only create ONE interpolated frame per eye. I think that the difference between FI low and high in 3D is, that in high, there's always one frame interpolated, and in low only in some scenes (slow pans for example).
In my opinion it would be possible to do a 3:2 pulldown in high mode and smooth it via frame interpolation but it seems that Sony isn't doing this.
With natural 60p material in 3D there is no possibility for any frame interpolation because as I stated, 60p per eye is the maximum no. of frames that can be shown, that's why you don't see any effect.
PS: Even if the Sony could do 240 fps, you'd only have 5 frames per eye at the max. not 6! So one original and 4 interpolated ones. Thats what it possible in 2D with 24p material, there it's possible to generate max. 4 interpolated frames. But I don't know what Sony is doing here exactly.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting. Am I correct that my VW95 operates at 240hz? I do know for a fact that the 3D glasses operate at 48hz per eye for 1080p24 frame packed 3D (and at 60hz per eye for all other 3D modes).

The one thing that bothers me about 1080p24 at 48hz per eye in 3D mode is that I notice the flicker, especially in bright scenes or very bright areas of certain scenes (i.e. a brightly lit sky). Whereas with the 60hz per eye 3D I do not see any clicker. Keep in mind, I am VERY sensitive to flicker. I see it on old CRT monitors when others don't (I always had to drive my monitors at 72hz, because at 60hz I could see it flicker - I'd ask others how they could tolerate it and they said they didn't see any flicker at all...). Likewise with my Samsung plasma I see flicker like this too, but with 2D.

So, what advancement in panel speed will it take Sony to make so that I won't see the flicker? Basically will they have to double the panels to 480hz? Is that on the horizon for the near future? I am curious what type of specs I should be on the lookout to give me confidence that the 3D will be flicker free for me in future LCOS projectors. Thanks.
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