Official Sony VPL-HW50ES Owners Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 07:53 AM
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I wonder if RC would have more of a positve effect in a 2K projector than in a 4K projector?

Rick. When you discuss RC, please give not only the detail setting but also the noise filtering setting. They are really quite related.

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post #32 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

This should be interesting as it appears many other have this on their short list for an upgrade as well.
Art at projectorreviews said the contrast was noticeably better on the HW50 over the Epson 5010 so the iris must be working in 3D now. As others stated please pose black level impressions compared to your memory as compared the the RS45. Not sure how the Mits 9000 compares to it.

I couldn't find anything in Art's review that talked about black levels in 3D for the Sony HW50, but he did a 2D comparison as noted below. I looked hard for any mention that the DI on the Sony was active in 3D as well and couldn't find any reference to this. If someone has found this info in the review please quote it.

Art actually found the black level on the new Sony very similar to last year's Epson as set out in the following quote:

"This Sony is definitely right up there challenging last year's sub-$5000 champ, the Epson 5010/6010 in terms of blacks. I did a good deal of side by side viewing of dark scenes. Both home theater projectors use dynamic irises (as do almost all), for deeper blacks, and are the two best around.

While viewing the two, they were very comparable. On some types of scenes the Sony had the edge, on others the Epson. First time in years anything this affordable could take on the Epson. JVC's got their RS46 / X35 coming out in a few months, they manage to do really good blacks without an iris - they actually have more dynamic range, but can't actually get blacks as dark as the Sony."
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post #33 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I couldn't find anything in Art's review that talked about black levels in 3D for the Sony HW50, but he did a 2D comparison as noted below. I looked hard for any mention that the DI on the Sony was active in 3D as well and couldn't find any reference to this. If someone has found this info in the review please quote it.
Art actually found the black level on the new Sony very similar to last year's Epson as set out in the following quote:

You guys just didn't read the whole review. tongue.gif This was on the comparison page talking about the 5010:

Quote:
Black levels are pretty much a tie in 2D, while the Sony wins handily in 3D black levels. That's because Epson doesn't let you use their dynamic iris in 3D. The new generation of Home and Pro Cinema Epsons coming early Nov. 2012, do allow their irises and other dynamic features to work in 3D leveling that playing field.

So yes, you can use the iris in 3D mode on the Sony.

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post #34 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

but can't actually get blacks as dark as the Sony."

was this in comparison the RS45 that had the blue tint issue? We have to keep some perspective with these statements until more direct A/B setups are done. Regarding their HW50 vs VW95 comparison - "the VW95ES definitely offers blacker blacks - really excellent, a step up. While I like the new Reality Engine, I'll still take the VW95ES every time, budget allowing."


I'm mainly curious about 2 things since I had the HW30 for about a year:

1. The lens is similar or the same as the HW30 which received some criticism last year for not being as sharp as the more expensive VW95 or any of the JVC's. Is the improvement based on a change in the optical path or is it a perception based on the result of the RC sharpening (The 'Darbee effect') ?

2. Has the 3D improved or the same as last year? The HW30 was very good in 3D last year, but still had some visible ghosting. I'd like to see the L/R patterns to know for sure. I'm highly sensitive to flicker. The HW30 was definitely better than last years JVC, but not quite as good as the 5010 and none were as good as the DLP's which is flawless in the regard.

Eric - The 3D ISO I'm going to send has a scene where there is a 100% IRE screen that you can measure 3D lumens. thanks for all your comments so far. Do you have a Darbee by chance? I'd like to see the HW50 with RC off vs. the Darbee and all various combinations to see how it looks.


When the HW50 lands in the US, I'll do some direct A/B comparisons to one of the current black level kings, the RS55. There's several qualities I liked with the HW30 so it's good to know they made some progress in the black level area. My RS55 is exceptionally sharp, so it will be curious to see how the HW50 compares with all processing turned off (e-shift and RC)>

The 4810 va. HW50 showdown will be intense this year based on Cine4home's early comments about the significantly improved 3D and dynamic e-shift (keeping blurred areas blurred, not sharpening background noise) vs. a static, all encompassing change that the RC's makes.

The RC looks very similar to the Darbee processing.

HW50RC.jpg
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post #35 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 01:10 PM
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Rick, can you please please please smile.gif tell me something about the blacks of the HW50 in 2D compared to the JVC RS45 (or any other JVC from the last 3 years)? I can get a good deal on my RS45 but ONLY untill tomorrownight (the guy who want to buy it wants to come over tomorrownight). If I will loose too much on the blacks when switching from my RS45 -> HW50 I won t go on with this deal and keep my RS45
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post #36 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 01:30 PM
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When I asked what type of screen I meant who is your screen made by?
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post #37 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 02:06 PM
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Rick: Is MotionFlow 'Film Projection' available in 3D? It dims the image so I'm wondering if it's even available in 3D. Thanks!
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post #38 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

How does convergence look?

I'm not familiar with Sony projectors so I have questions about the Iris. I presume one can limit the max Iris opening so one doesn't need sunglasses in a bat cave (ie, to limit max brightness) but does this also improve ON/OFF CR? Can one still use the dynamic iris in this situation?

The convergence look pretty good. I made a small general adjustment with the red.

The good news is after the adjustment the convergence on my unit is great all across the whole screen.
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post #39 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I couldn't find anything in Art's review that talked about black levels in 3D for the Sony HW50, but he did a 2D comparison as noted below....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

You guys just didn't read the whole review. tongue.gif...

My black level comment was only in regards to 3D. I just didn't finish my thought. smile.gif I know that Art said it was on par with the 5010 however we also have to keep in mind that his 5010 also had over 1000 hours while his Sony had around 100 hours which may also give the Epson and advantage is my assumption.
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post #40 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

My black level comment was only in regards to 3D. I just didn't finish my thought. smile.gif I know that Art said it was on par with the 5010 however we also have to keep in mind that his 5010 also had over 1000 hours while his Sony had around 100 hours which may also give the Epson and advantage is my assumption.

That quote was talking about the iris being used in 3D (as well as 2D) which was the answer that Deja Vu was looking for.

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post #41 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

That quote was talking about the iris being used in 3D (as well as 2D) which was the answer that Deja Vu was looking for.

Deja Vu remarked about my comment saying he didn't see anything in Art's review about black levels in 3D but that the two were comparable in 2D. I assumed he quoted me because I didn't specify that my comment was in regards to black levels in 3D. When you quoted him saying you guys didn't read the whole review my assumption was that you were referring to me. I was just trying to clarify that my original comment of "Art at projectorreviews said the contrast was noticeably better on the HW50 over the Epson 5010" was in reference to 3D.
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post #42 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Here the famous Left/Right shot behind the glasses (sorry for the bad picture)

F9648D73-4115-4119-A45D-F4E377565C2C-3196-000004D9C8978308.jpg

D0F16CC4-01FD-4BFB-8335-2B175129345D-3196-000004D9EDEFB905.jpg
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post #43 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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In 3D the max lumens I get is around 1100 (bright cinema)

Behind the glasses I get around 360 lumens. (but not sure I am doing the right thing for a safe measurement)
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post #44 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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On all the 3D patterns I can see ghosting. But with real world material, the ghosting is minimum and the picture is gorgeous... The RC is 3D help to create the small detail we like to see. It is just out of this world eek.gif

Tonight I watch Sammy Adventure. A great 3D popup movie. With the RC, the light output and the superb color, it was pure eye candy smile.gif

Best 3D in my room for sure... (Never try DLP of course)
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post #45 of 3507 Old 10-07-2012, 10:01 PM
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thanks for taking the time to check out the 3D demo ISO. It looks pretty much identical to the HW30 patterns I have from last year. I agree though, when watching actual content, it's quite good.

I thought the HW30 and 5010's performance were similar last year. Better than the JVC, not quite as good as the DLP's.

The extra 3D lumens is certainly welcome. The comments on RC sound similar to the first impressions when seeing the Darbee. We'll have to get some comparisons of the HW50 with the RC off + Darbee, vice versa and then both together.
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post #46 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

In 3D the max lumens I get is around 1100 (bright cinema)
Behind the glasses I get around 360 lumens. (but not sure I am doing the right thing for a safe measurement)

Nice work RickAVManiac and Zombie.

I have read that the glasses are adjustable and that you can dictate how bright they are, almost like a brightness/crosstalk adjuster.
Have you tried various settings on the glasses?
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post #47 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

In 3D the max lumens I get is around 1100 (bright cinema)
Behind the glasses I get around 360 lumens. (but not sure I am doing the right thing for a safe measurement)

Nice work RickAVManiac and Zombie.

I have read that the glasses are adjustable and that you can dictate how bright they are, almost like a brightness/crosstalk adjuster.
Have you tried various settings on the glasses?

You can set glasses brigtness from 1 to 4. The higher the number result in more brightness but more ghosting. For my room, I will say 3 was the best setting.

The good thing with the HW50 is I get the same light output in #3 that I was getting in #4 with the HW30. So the result is less ghosting with equal lumen.
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post #48 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for taking the time to check out the 3D demo ISO. It looks pretty much identical to the HW30 patterns I have from last year. I agree though, when watching actual content, it's quite good.

I thought the HW30 and 5010's performance were similar last year. Better than the JVC, not quite as good as the DLP's.

The extra 3D lumens is certainly welcome. The comments on RC sound similar to the first impressions when seeing the Darbee. We'll have to get some comparisons of the HW50 with the RC off + Darbee, vice versa and then both together.

I use the Epson 5010 in my room for about a month last year. I will say the 3D on the HW50 is better than the 5010. Same lumen output but with the RC and the FI in 3D for me the Sony is a better experience. Also, nobody talk about that but the 5010 on popup scene pop a little less than the Sony (compare side by side 5010 vs HW30).
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post #49 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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After a weekend of testing here my up to date impression :

Positives:
- The fundamentals (Many options, great motion flow, invisible dynamic iris and working CMS)
- The blacks
- The colors and grayscal
- The light output (and way to manage it)
- Lumens in 3D
- RC in 3D is amazing and great in 2D

Could be better:
- 3D ghosting still present (obviously it's not s DLP)
- The RC in 2D can introduce some video noise depending of the source. With full detail source like Avenger it work like a charm but with classic/old less detail movie like Back to the Future you have to drop the setting to minimum.
- The black are pretty good but not like the top of the line JVC (RS55)
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post #50 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 08:55 AM
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How does the HW50ES compare to your Mits 9000 with respect to brightness, colour, sharpness, shadow detail, and contrast (especially interested in low light scenes)? I am looking to replace my JVC RS1. It sounds like the Sony will be as good as or better than the RS1 in every aspect, the one possible exception being black levels. You mentioned that the Sony does not have the black levels of the RS55. I have never seen the RS55, but it surely has lower black levels than the RS1, so perhaps the Sony would be close enough to the RS1 in black levels to make any difference insignificant. Thanks.
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post #51 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

- The black are pretty good but not like the top of the line JVC (RS55)
And that is exactly what s keeping me from making the change from my RS45 to the HW50
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post #52 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post

How does the HW50ES compare to your Mits 9000 with respect to brightness, colour, sharpness, shadow detail, and contrast (especially interested in low light scenes)? I am looking to replace my JVC RS1. It sounds like the Sony will be as good as or better than the RS1 in every aspect, the one possible exception being black levels. You mentioned that the Sony does not have the black levels of the RS55. I have never seen the RS55, but it surely has lower black levels than the RS1, so perhaps the Sony would be close enough to the RS1 in black levels to make any difference insignificant. Thanks.

Actually, I have the Mits side by side with the HW50. For me, the Sony is better in every aspect. The black level is about equal. (With the same lumens output). The Sony is capable of way more brightness so like every projector as you raise the lumens, the black floor will raise too...
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post #53 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Actually, I have the Mits side by side with the HW50. For me, the Sony is better in every aspect. The black level is about equal. (With the same lumens output). The Sony is capable of way more brightness so like every projector as you raise the lumens, the black floor will raise too...

In 2D if you put the Sony in low lamp mode how much of a difference in black levels are we talking in dark scenes?
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post #54 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Actually, I have the Mits side by side with the HW50. For me, the Sony is better in every aspect. The black level is about equal. (With the same lumens output). The Sony is capable of way more brightness so like every projector as you raise the lumens, the black floor will raise too...

In 2D if you put the Sony in low lamp mode how much of a difference in black levels are we talking in dark scenes?

Low lamp mode with dynamic iris desactivate, the Sony win by a hair.
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post #55 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Low lamp mode with dynamic iris desactivate, the Sony win by a hair.

How about compared to the RS45?
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post #56 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Low lamp mode with dynamic iris desactivate, the Sony win by a hair.

How about compared to the RS45?

I dont have the RS45 right now so I will have to go from memory...

Hard to say... I will say close enough that other aspect matter more.
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post #57 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

I dont have the RS45 right now so I will have to go from memory...
Hard to say... I will say close enough that other aspect matter more.

Thanks Rick! Thanks for what you have provided thus far. Zombie10k should be able to do a side by side when he reaches his so we'll know for sure then but so far from everything you've said the HW50 sounds very promising.

Now the question will be how long will you be keeping this one? tongue.gif
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post #58 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 12:27 PM
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Rick, how's the overall image compared to the VW95 ?
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post #59 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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Rick when you get tired of the 50 pm me a fair price.
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post #60 of 3507 Old 10-08-2012, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Rick when you get tired of the 50 pm me a fair price.

LOL
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