Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 108 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3211 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 08:52 AM
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No worries .smile.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3212 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 12:06 PM
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Zombie,

Any suggestions on alternative Sony glasses? I really like the picture through the glasses on the Sonys from what I've seen so far. I think the tint seems about right. However, I wear prescription lenses, and they aren't very comfortable to wear over my existing glasses for extended periods.

Thanks

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post #3213 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 06:17 PM
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I've been pretty quiet on this this thread since I'm living in the last model year with my HW30. FWIW, I think the HW30 is a great projector and a year later (with 750 hours or so) I wouldn't have changed my decision. It's excellent in every way except for lens uniformity. The good news is I've only ever seen it with test patterns, not in real content.

Its been about a year since I got my HW30 and I wanted to revisit the lens uniformity. I couldn't find exactly the right test patterns, so I ended up creating my own. I wanted to be able to focus with a single color (Green) and then add Red and/or Blue. The goal was to check for focus independent of convergence. If you are only displaying Green and you are see oddities in some areas of the screen while the image is sharp in others, that's a focus issue. Also, if green is sharp then, with no focus changes, blue and red should individually be sharp. I would argue that if you cannot get R/G/B focused tightly then convergence is the least of your problems.

Having said all that...

I'm interested in how the HW50 model's lens behaves. If someone with an HW50 has a few moments and a computer hooked up, please try out my simple convergence page. It's at

http://www.aaarpinball.com/Miscellaneous/p1080.htm

It's a very simply HTML5/JavaScript page with 2 patterns:

1) Single pixels spaced every 5 pixels
2) "Plus" signs (10 pixels high / 10 pixels wide)

Each of these two patterns comes in 6 variations: Red only, Green only, Blue only, Red+Green, Green+Blue, Red+Green+Blue (aka White)

There are 12 buttons on the top to pick the appropriate pattern/color.

If you want to give your PJ a focus workout, do the single pixel green test and see if that dot is clear all over the screen.

I'd love to hear how the HW50 handles this... and for that matter, I'd be interested to hear about any of the other PJs.

Thanks
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post #3214 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I've been pretty quiet on this this thread since I'm living in the last model year with my HW30. FWIW, I think the HW30 is a great projector and a year later (with 750 hours or so) I wouldn't have changed my decision. It's excellent in every way except for lens uniformity. The good news is I've only ever seen it with test patterns, not in real content.

Its been about a year since I got my HW30 and I wanted to revisit the lens uniformity. I couldn't find exactly the right test patterns, so I ended up creating my own. I wanted to be able to focus with a single color (Green) and then add Red and/or Blue. The goal was to check for focus independent of convergence. If you are only displaying Green and you are see oddities in some areas of the screen while the image is sharp in others, that's a focus issue. Also, if green is sharp then, with no focus changes, blue and red should individually be sharp. I would argue that if you cannot get R/G/B focused tightly then convergence is the least of your problems.

Having said all that...

I'm interested in how the HW50 model's lens behaves. If someone with an HW50 has a few moments and a computer hooked up, please try out my simple convergence page. It's at

http://www.aaarpinball.com/Miscellaneous/p1080.htm

It's a very simply HTML5/JavaScript page with 2 patterns:

1) Single pixels spaced every 5 pixels
2) "Plus" signs (10 pixels high / 10 pixels wide)

Each of these two patterns comes in 6 variations: Red only, Green only, Blue only, Red+Green, Green+Blue, Red+Green+Blue (aka White)

There are 12 buttons on the top to pick the appropriate pattern/color.

If you want to give your PJ a focus workout, do the single pixel green test and see if that dot is clear all over the screen.

I'd love to hear how the HW50 handles this... and for that matter, I'd be interested to hear about any of the other PJs.

Thanks

The HW50ES uses the same lens as the HW30ES. This has been confirmed by Mark Haflich who knows a lot of people on the inside and obviously someone at Sony. There is already a dedicated thread for nonuniformity issues with the HW50ES here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436740/sony-vpl-hw50es-focus-nonuniformity/0_50

You'll probably have better luck posting this info there to get more people to give you results.
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post #3215 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I've been pretty quiet on this this thread since I'm living in the last model year with my HW30. FWIW, I think the HW30 is a great projector and a year later (with 750 hours or so) I wouldn't have changed my decision. It's excellent in every way except for lens uniformity. The good news is I've only ever seen it with test patterns, not in real content.

Its been about a year since I got my HW30 and I wanted to revisit the lens uniformity. I couldn't find exactly the right test patterns, so I ended up creating my own. I wanted to be able to focus with a single color (Green) and then add Red and/or Blue. The goal was to check for focus independent of convergence. If you are only displaying Green and you are see oddities in some areas of the screen while the image is sharp in others, that's a focus issue. Also, if green is sharp then, with no focus changes, blue and red should individually be sharp. I would argue that if you cannot get R/G/B focused tightly then convergence is the least of your problems.

Having said all that...

I'm interested in how the HW50 model's lens behaves. If someone with an HW50 has a few moments and a computer hooked up, please try out my simple convergence page. It's at

http://www.aaarpinball.com/Miscellaneous/p1080.htm

It's a very simply HTML5/JavaScript page with 2 patterns:

1) Single pixels spaced every 5 pixels
2) "Plus" signs (10 pixels high / 10 pixels wide)

Each of these two patterns comes in 6 variations: Red only, Green only, Blue only, Red+Green, Green+Blue, Red+Green+Blue (aka White)

There are 12 buttons on the top to pick the appropriate pattern/color.

If you want to give your PJ a focus workout, do the single pixel green test and see if that dot is clear all over the screen.

I'd love to hear how the HW50 handles this... and for that matter, I'd be interested to hear about any of the other PJs.

Thanks
This is an awesome set of patterns. Is there anyway you could just post them as indivdual jpeg so they could be displayed from a thumb drive or similar. My assumption is I need to have a PC or something hooked up to display these. I'm lost a bit here.

I'm Jeff and I approve this message.
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post #3216 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post


I'm interested in how the HW50 model's lens behaves. If someone with an HW50 has a few moments and a computer hooked up, please try out my simple convergence page. It's at

http://www.aaarpinball.com/Miscellaneous/p1080.htm

Thanks

It looks really cool. Thanks for sharing this.
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post #3217 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3218 of 11396 Old 01-24-2013, 10:08 PM
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I've read this whole thread (awesome and very helpful btw) and concluded that for my specific scenario if the HW50 had lens memory I'd have already ordered one. So I'm thinking HW50 w/ lumagen might do the trick. Any comments on how the 16:9 looked scaled sown?1.gif
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post #3219 of 11396 Old 01-25-2013, 12:17 AM
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16:9 looks OK scaled down for menus and trailers. I used to do this when I first sold my AE3000 (which had lens memory) and got my HD350. I would still zoom back for full res 16:9 films though. I've since got a lens so I effectively downscale 16:9 menus and trailers with the lens in place, but I always move it out of the way to watch a whole 16:9 film. Of course the lens memory on my X35 helps anyway since 1.85:1 non lens viewing requires a small amount of zooming.

However, as I discovered with the AE3000 and it's lens memory: It's the picture that you enjoy after the adjustments that is important, so don't get too hung up on how you achieve CIH, just which one gives the best picture once you are viewing. (HINT: It wasn't the AE3000 wink.gif ).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3220 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 02:09 AM
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Regarding the black crush issue on JVCs that SOWK posted about, I did some experiements last night and replied to his PM as below. I thought it might be useful to post it in here as well for information. My room currently is completely dark when viewing films, but the walls are light grey and the ceiling is white until I can add my black velvet screen surround. This might make seeing differences at very low levels harder to see, but I've done what I could to help see the flashing bars on the AVS HD709 basic pattern for brightness. I tried various methods tomake the 17 bar more visible, while then checking against the hide function and a 0% test pattern to see if the black floor was raised.

These tests were done using my JVC X35 and a Lumagen Mini3D, Chromapure and an i1 display Pro enhanced.
Quote:

Due to my room I had to zoom the image to electronically to crop as much white text as I could and then I stood in front of the vertical white text that is on the 16 bar of the AVS HD709 basic pattern. This made it easier to see the dark bars without the distraction of the white text.

With my HDMI set to standard Superwhite, brightness to 0 and the Lumagen in bypass I could hardly see 17 flashing (may even have been an optical illusion due to the other bars nearby), but 18 was definitely flashing. I tried different settings for the black level and anything above +1 raises the black floor when comparing a 0% pattern to 'hide'. So this control is only like a very fine brightness control. I put mine back to 0.

I then switched the Lumagen on and moved the 5% point in the 21 point greyscale/gamma adjustment down to 0.5%. I tried raising the output to 0.6 and 0.7 to make 17 more visible. However in either case it also raised the black floor compared to 'hide'. Like wise increasing the brightness control in the Lumagen (a very fine adjustment) would also raise the black floor, so this was set to 0 also.

I then moved the point to 1% and tried 1.1, 1.2 & 1.3 as output. They made the 17 bar more visible the higher I went and 18 was clearly visible even from my seat. This didn't raise the black level, but I think extreme settings might cause other effects as when I raised it higher then I started to see a kind of banding across the 18 and 19 bars. However, small increases (1.0 in and 1.3 out is still 30% brighter anyway) might do what you want without raising the black level.

I think in a very good room with jet black walls it would be worth the effort so long it isn't set too extreme, but in my light walled room it's a bit moot at the moment due to washout. I have left the setting at 1.3 for now just to see if I notice extra noise or other issues while I watch some films this weekend.

So in conclusion there is only one adjustment that allowed me to make the 17 bar more visible and not increase the black floor and this was using the Lumagen at 1%. Last night's viewing (Anonymous on BluRay and a TV series called Utopia on Channel 4 HD from a1080i PVR source) didn't show any issues with noise in dark areas that I noticed, so I plan to make setting 1% in the Lumagen my standard procedure from now on.

Those without the luxury of a Lumagen might be able to adjust the black level control slightly to +1 or possibly +2 to make the 18 bar more visible, but would need to check using the hide function and a 0% pattern to make sure that this doesn't increase the black floor. I'm not convinced it is possible to make the 17 bar visible without raising the black floor without external processing on a JVC (at least on my X35).

NOTE: All these tests were done with the HDMI setting at Superwhite not standard as I put in my PM quoted. I might try a test tonight using Enhanced to see if I can make 17 visible without raising the black floor as some others have said they use Enhanced for this reason.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3221 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 04:13 AM
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I will also be testing a lumagen Mini 3D today. I will need to see if there is any negative side effects on live material with a raised 1% gamma.

Kelvin, I always use Enhanced HDMI. Also, Thank You for taking the time to do this. I hope you can address your room as well soon to kill off some reflections.
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post #3222 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 05:12 AM
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I completely forgot about trying enhanced last night, so I'm keen to see if it makes any difference later today.

I'm itching to get my room improved since I already know how much better it could look even with some cheap black sheeting hung in a temporary 'tent'. I'm sure black velvet will be even better. However, I'm working on two bedrooms at the moment so until these have reached a point where I can't do anymore without outside help, then I can't start the living room. frown.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3223 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 05:25 AM
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Yes. I also always use HDMI enhanced. Never tried Super white.
Let me try adjust 1.0-1.3% with Lumagen mini.
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post #3224 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

So in conclusion there is only one adjustment that allowed me to make the 17 bar more visible and not increase the black floor and this was using the Lumagen at 1%.
Nice report Kelvin. I'm not surprised by your brightness and black level findings. I think we're all so accustomed to thinking that the brightness pattern is the way to set brightness/black level that it's easy to overlook that it may also be raising the black floor (level 16). What we need to is gain separation between level 16 and level 17, not raise both....and fiddling with gamma is the only way to achieve that. I would not have expected that changing gamma at 1/2% would raise the black floor but in hindsight that sort of makes sense. I've always thought that the brightness setting granularity would not allow us to place it at exactly 0% gamma.....I think that is why there may be difference in black crush between HDMI Standard and HDMI Enhanced. However, raising 1% gamma sounds like a viable solution and I'll try that next time I calibrate.

Looking forward to more info from SOWK and Freebits........perhaps though we should take this discussion to the RS4810 thread....

Geof
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post #3225 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 06:12 AM
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Thanks Geoff. I may have to eat my words if I find Enhanced allows 17 to be seen without raising the black floor. redface.gif

On a side note: My lux reading has barely dropped at all since it was measuring 100 Lux last night after 102 hours use compared to 102-3 (which is the highest I've measured between 0 and 102 hours). I then wondered if maybe the red had dropped in the lamp, but checking the 100% white balance last night it was pretty much still good (less than 3dE out). I did tweak 100% a little bit (using the JVC RGB gains) prior to the gamma experiments, but I'll run a full autocalibration in a week or two's time since the lamp seems nicely stable now.

These lamps certainly seem much better than the old models from my experience.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3226 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 06:32 AM
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Good to hear about the lamp!!

I don't think word eating is required....wink.gif because I do think there is some unit to unit variation. Manni tried Enhanced at one point and found it didn't help much but it did result in a small improvement for me.

I looked at my hours last evening and wow...it's close to 150.... eek.gif I do not have time at the moment to calibrate but a quick look at the ramps shows it's not bad but it could use some grayscale adjustments at lower levels (looks pretty neutral above 50%, less so below that).

Geof
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post #3227 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 06:58 AM
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Mine was 145 lux measuring 100IRE with aperture 0 & lamp time 25h.
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post #3228 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I then moved the point to 1% and tried 1.1, 1.2 & 1.3 as output.

@Kelvin, what does the output mean? Is it Luma? for IRE 1%, you set it 1.0/1.1/1.2?
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post #3229 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 07:06 AM
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Finnally, with all the good talk about the High Power, I decide to go with a dual screen setup I will buy a High Power 2.35:1 smile.gif

I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details
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post #3230 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Finnally, with all the good talk about the High Power, I decide to go with a dual screen setup I will buy a High Power 2.35:1 smile.gif

I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Weren't you satisfied with black level of HW50 or uniformity?
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post #3231 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Finnally, with all the good talk about the High Power, I decide to go with a dual screen setup I will buy a High Power 2.35:1 smile.gif

I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Weren't you satisfied with black level of HW50 or uniformity?

The uniformy is good for a projector is this price range... But compare to a better lens like the VW95 its not the same thing... But the RC really help to give a super sharp image...
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post #3232 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

It looks really cool. Thanks for sharing this.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

that is a cool pattern test, thanks for posting!

Thanks again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer View Post

This is an awesome set of patterns. Is there anyway you could just post them as indivdual jpeg so they could be displayed from a thumb drive or similar. My assumption is I need to have a PC or something hooked up to display these. I'm lost a bit here.

Thanks and... the patterns are generated on the fly by the JavaScript code. It should be fairly trivial to view them on your projector as long as you have a computer connected to the internet. Connect computer, open modern brower, go to the link... As of now, I'm not planning to convert them to jPG (or PNG?).

Anyone find anything interesting with their favorite "this years model" projector using these?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsbuyer[quote name= 
... please try out my simple convergence page. It's at

http://www.aaarpinball.com/Miscellaneous/p1080.htm

It's a very simply HTML5/JavaScript page with 2 patterns:

1) Single pixels spaced every 5 pixels
2) "Plus" signs (10 pixels high / 10 pixels wide)

Each of these two patterns comes in 6 variations: Red only, Green only, Blue only, Red+Green, Green+Blue, Red+Green+Blue (aka White)

There are 12 buttons on the top to pick the appropriate pattern/color.

If you want to give your PJ a focus workout, do the single pixel green test and see if that dot is clear all over the screen.
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post #3233 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:17 AM
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anyone try a 5020 + darbee ?
does it make the pic look sharper?
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post #3234 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Finnally, with all the good talk about the High Power, I decide to go with a dual screen setup I will buy a High Power 2.35:1 smile.gif

I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Just a thought (and perhaps you've already considered it) but wouldn't waiting for the VW95 rev2 be a better (financially as well as technologically speaking) option? I guess if you've already decided to go to 2 screens then you don't want to hassle with the manual zoom of the HW50? I suppose it also depends on what you can get for your HW50 as well as pay for the HW95 vs buying it's replacement directly (which still isn't confirmed). Anyway, just some food for thought.
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post #3235 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Finnally, with all the good talk about the High Power, I decide to go with a dual screen setup I will buy a High Power 2.35:1 smile.gif

I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Just a thought (and perhaps you've already considered it) but wouldn't waiting for the VW95 rev2 be a better (financially as well as technologically speaking) option? I guess if you've already decided to go to 2 screens then you don't want to hassle with the manual zoom of the HW50? I suppose it also depends on what you can get for your HW50 as well as pay for the HW95 vs buying it's replacement directly (which still isn't confirmed). Anyway, just some food for thought.

My plan is to buy the 95 replacement as soon as available but would like to install my new screen this month so... Another option I was considering is a anamorphic lens for my HW50, but I know nothing about lens and really dont know what to buy and how to install that. Also, can a lens work with a 2 screens setup? I think the screen will need to be perfecly align to avoid any zoom/shift change...
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post #3236 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
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...I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Wow that was a short honeymoon! Is the lens the biggest change you want from the VW95 or is the the better contrast/black levels?

My HW50 looks sharper than my RS45 (which doesn't have perfect convergence) but in most things viewed the HW50 looks very sharp to my eyes. I've only seen one movie thus far that the RC needs turned down to minimum and that is Monsters Inc. The main character Sully is mostly hair and the RC makes this stand out but if RC is turned up just a little bit I can see some stairstepping from my seating distance (which is very close).

I've never seen the VW95 but I could see wanting the better contrast/black levels (most specifically in dark scenes). I almost went with a VW95 but AVS didn't have any more B stocks so this made my decision easy. At the same time I was concerned about the brightness of the VW95 which was less than my RS45 which was very dim in 3D even with my HP screen IMO. For me no matter which direction I took something would bother me. Life's tough for the picky I suppose. The RS45 had poor 3D to say the least and at the time the 2D PQ looked flawless but now the picture doesn't look as sharp and motion looks poor (I use FI) after owning the HW50. I'm sure the VW95 would look dim to my eyes in 3D and the HW50 could improve with black levels. If only there was only one projector that combined the best of these 3 projectors at an affordable price!
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post #3237 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 08:53 AM
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...I will also sell my HW50 for a VW95 as I will use the zoom technique to go from one screen to the other...

So my Sony HW50 is officially for sale. Look at the AVS classifeds for all the details

Wow that was a short honeymoon! Is the lens the biggest change you want from the VW95 or is the the better contrast/black levels?

My HW50 looks sharper than my RS45 (which doesn't have perfect convergence) but in most things viewed the HW50 looks very sharp to my eyes. I've only seen one movie thus far that the RC needs turned down to minimum and that is Monsters Inc. The main character Sully is mostly hair and the RC makes this stand out but if RC is turned up just a little bit I can see some stairstepping from my seating distance (which is very close).

I've never seen the VW95 but I could see wanting the better contrast/black levels (most specifically in dark scenes). I almost went with a VW95 but AVS didn't have any more B stocks so this made my decision easy. At the same time I was concerned about the brightness of the VW95 which was less than my RS45 which was very dim in 3D even with my HP screen IMO. For me no matter which direction I took something would bother me. Life's tough for the picky I suppose. The RS45 had poor 3D to say the least and at the time the 2D PQ looked flawless but now the picture doesn't look as sharp and motion looks poor (I use FI) after owning the HW50. I'm sure the VW95 would look dim to my eyes in 3D and the HW50 could improve with black levels. If only there was only one projector that combined the best of these 3 projectors at an affordable price!

The HW50 is way brighter in 3D than the 95. Also, to be honest, I dont know if I will be able to see a real difference in lens sharpness between the 2 sit 10 feet from my screen... The main reason is I want the lens memory. Since I dont watch a lot of 3D (almost never) I dont mind go with the 95.
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post #3238 of 11396 Old 01-26-2013, 10:11 AM
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@Kelvin, what does the output mean? Is it Luma? for IRE 1%, you set it 1.0/1.1/1.2?

Yes, I should have put Luma setting, but I was trying to keep it clear to understand for the non Lumagen owners. I changed greyscale point 1 (or is it 2?) from 5.0 to 1.0 and then changed the Luma to 1.1/1.2/1.3 to see how this effected the 17 flashing bar.

Also my 100 Lux reading is at -15 iris, minimum zoom which gives approx 100" diagonal for 16:9 content (non lens use on my 2.35:1 screen).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3239 of 11396 Old 01-27-2013, 02:00 AM
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I had a quick try last night using Enhanced HDMI setting and I couldn't get the 17 bar flashing without making the 16 bar flash as well (or crush to 18) so it seems that on my example the only way I can get the 17 bar slightly visible is using the 1% in the Lumagen. I watched a couple of films last night and still didn't notice any side effects to using this 1% setting so I'm quite happy to continue this way. I think my findings at least show that there are tolerances between units (and different set ups/equipment) so each user will have to test for themselves what setting works best for them.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens, sold the lens...now using e-shift.
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post #3240 of 11396 Old 01-27-2013, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

I had a quick try last night using Enhanced HDMI setting and I couldn't get the 17 bar flashing without making the 16 bar flash as well (or crush to 18) so it seems that on my example the only way I can get the 17 bar slightly visible is using the 1% in the Lumagen. I watched a couple of films last night and still didn't notice any side effects to using this 1% setting so I'm quite happy to continue this way. I think my findings at least show that there are tolerances between units (and different set ups/equipment) so each user will have to test for themselves what setting works best for them.

That means you calibrate grayscale like 0%, 1%, 10%, 15% ... 95%, 100%? If you measure with Chromapure, do you see straight line and 5% looks good?
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