Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 124 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Projector Mini-Shootout Thread
domingos38's Avatar domingos38 01:36 PM 03-04-2013
still no Epson 5020UB vs Panny AE8000?

Deja Vu's Avatar Deja Vu 02:23 PM 03-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos38 View Post

still no Epson 5020UB vs Panny AE8000?

Zombie's made lots of comments about how these two compare.

The JVC 35 just wouldn't be bright enough for me in 3D -- the 6020 is just about right in high lamp mode on my 120" HP screen. The 3D glasses sure do a number on brightness!
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 03:19 PM 03-04-2013
For those following along, hearing talk on the HW50ES of a price increase or free lamp offer going away, end of this month. Should know more as we get near to the end of the month.
jimed1's Avatar jimed1 04:41 PM 03-04-2013
Thanks Mike.
tallnick's Avatar tallnick 09:42 PM 03-06-2013
Relatively OT, but I'm sure someone here can answer: if I watch a 3D blu ray in 2D am I seeing the exact same video quality (including color, contrast, etc) that I'd see if I watched the 2D blu ray? Or is the 3D video mixed differently to account for tint of glasses, dimness, or any other change? Just wondering.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 07:34 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

Relatively OT, but I'm sure someone here can answer: if I watch a 3D blu ray in 2D am I seeing the exact same video quality (including color, contrast, etc) that I'd see if I watched the 2D blu ray? Or is the 3D video mixed differently to account for tint of glasses, dimness, or any other change? Just wondering.

it's going to be the same quality as the regular 2D disk. There are no changes made to accommodate for the glasses.
seanbryan's Avatar seanbryan 08:35 AM 03-07-2013
Isn't the 3D version usually a different encode with different compression, noise reduction and/or sharpening applied? I'd swear I've read discussions in the review threads about differences between the 3D and 2D encodes of some blu-rays.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 08:58 AM 03-07-2013
This is a great review of the RS46/X35. They show important calibration information that is sometimes missed in other reviews. +1 for showing the full saturation tracking.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/jvc-x35-201302052614.htm#

+2 for discussing 3D calibration. A number of review sites put on the glasses and provide an opinion of 3D vs. the other models with no discussion of how far off the color is in 3D mode. In most cases, the color is off by quite a bit.

This is the '3D' mode factory setting on the RS46/X35 they reviewed, you can see the colors need a fair bit of correction.

3d-pre-rgb.png

My D3 pro meter is sensitive enough to handle calibration 30 & 80 IRE in 3D mode through the glasses. There's been some discussion that there is more to correcting the 3D colors vs. sticking the glasses in front of the meter, but I can say it still makes a dramatic difference when calibrated this way vs. the stock settings.

HW50, through the glasses calibration

HW50-3DCAL-5-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-8-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-0-.jpg
space2001's Avatar space2001 09:30 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it's going to be the same quality as the regular 2D disk. There are no changes made to accommodate for the glasses.

Zombie While the there is nothing done to accommodate for the glasses. some movies I forget which one actually look different.

One example that comes to mind is Tangled. The 3d version has the depth of field remove to give more depth.
Also Megamind the picture quality of the 3d is better then the 2d. There are some difference on live action ones as well, I just can't think of them right now.
Tom Monahan's Avatar Tom Monahan 09:31 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

Relatively OT, but I'm sure someone here can answer: if I watch a 3D blu ray in 2D am I seeing the exact same video quality (including color, contrast, etc) that I'd see if I watched the 2D blu ray? Or is the 3D video mixed differently to account for tint of glasses, dimness, or any other change? Just wondering.

I can't remember what shrek movie it was but it's 2d disc had a much higher bit rate than the 3D disc. Not that bit rate is the end all and be all.

Tom
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 09:48 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Zombie While the there is nothing done to accommodate for the glasses. some movies I forget which one actually look different.

One example that comes to mind is Tangled. The 3d version has the depth of field remove to give more depth.
Also Megamind the picture quality of the 3d is better then the 2d. There are some difference on live action ones as well, I just can't think of them right now.

understood, I should have been more clear and say that I generally don't see a difference for most of the movies I have. I have network devices all over the house and stream the 3D BD ISO's on regular 2D TV's.
plissken99's Avatar plissken99 10:01 AM 03-07-2013
Have you sent your RS46/X35 in for the update yet?
tallnick's Avatar tallnick 11:07 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

understood, I should have been more clear and say that I generally don't see a difference for most of the movies I have. I have network devices all over the house and stream the 3D BD ISO's on regular 2D TV's.
That is exactly what I plan on doing. Is there a way to force 2D from a 3D iso if you want to watch 2D on a 3D projector?
plasmaowner's Avatar plasmaowner 11:18 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

That is exactly what I plan on doing. Is there a way to force 2D from a 3D iso if you want to watch 2D on a 3D projector?

Yes, in your 3d options just set it to 2d only.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 11:26 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Have you sent your RS46/X35 in for the update yet?

Not yet, but I've been experimenting more with the 4810's 3D mode. I'm looking closer at the crosstalk control changes. It seem it only affects the brightness from 0-6 and only introduces more noticeable ghosting at 7 or 8 setting.

I have to look at this closer, but it looks pretty good at CT @ 6 and the brightness is definitely better than the default of 0. There is still hard-edge crosstalk that I can see, but the brownish/yellow shadow that I saw on the 46 (pre-firmware) is no longer there.

I'd say it's a worthy update (assuming it's identical to the 4810) since the CT controls actually do something now (control the brightness of the image).
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 11:33 AM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Zombie While the there is nothing done to accommodate for the glasses. some movies I forget which one actually look different.

One example that comes to mind is Tangled. The 3d version has the depth of field remove to give more depth.
Also Megamind the picture quality of the 3d is better then the 2d. There are some difference on live action ones as well, I just can't think of them right now.

I remember reading some time ago that Alice in Wonderland has significant differences between the 2D and 3D versions - even in the creation of the CGI. I've never watched the 2D version of Tangled, except as a short demo in stores, where the contrast looked better than what I see in the 3D version. I always thought this was done to brighten up the 3D version, because of the hit in brightness that 3D typically takes. The 3D version looks flat.
space2001's Avatar space2001 11:44 AM 03-07-2013
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 12:09 PM 03-07-2013
thanks for posting, that is interesting info. I rarely watch a 2D version of a movie if it's available in 3D. If we watch in 2D on regular TV, it's still the 3D source.

Everyone with a 3D projector should check out Wreck-it-Ralph. This movie is a blast from beginning to end with great 3D. I'd like to see Disney do a little more 'in your face' with Sammy's Adventures type pop-outs. That movie is still the king of pop-outs.
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 12:11 PM 03-07-2013
Cameron uses typically shallow depth of field in Avatar, to the dismay of many. If the above pictures of Tangled are any indication, then the differences between the 2D and 3D versions are primarily depth of field and not contrast. I still think the lower contrast and heightened brightness of the movie were selected as a result of 3D being dim in most displays.
Tom Monahan's Avatar Tom Monahan 01:13 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for posting, that is interesting info. I rarely watch a 2D version of a movie if it's available in 3D. If we watch in 2D on regular TV, it's still the 3D source.

Everyone with a 3D projector should check out Wreck-it-Ralph. This movie is a blast from beginning to end with great 3D. I'd like to see Disney do a little more 'in your face' with Sammy's Adventures type pop-outs. That movie is still the king of pop-outs.

+1 on Wreck-it-Ralph. Nice depth and a joy from beginning to end.

Tom
Toe's Avatar Toe 01:19 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for posting, that is interesting info. I rarely watch a 2D version of a movie if it's available in 3D. If we watch in 2D on regular TV, it's still the 3D source.

Everyone with a 3D projector should check out Wreck-it-Ralph. This movie is a blast from beginning to end with great 3D. I'd like to see Disney do a little more 'in your face' with Sammy's Adventures type pop-outs. That movie is still the king of pop-outs.

I watched the 2d version of Ralph a few nights ago which looked incredible on the JVC. Tried watching the 3d version last night, but my disc is scratched and freezes/skips no doubt due to the stacking method. rolleyes.gif Of course Best Buy is all out of the 3d version, same with Target near me so I was only able to get a credit. Looking forward to checking out the 3d when I can track it down. Great movie though and solid audio.
Elix's Avatar Elix 02:30 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

HW50, through the glasses calibration
HW50-3DCAL-1-.jpg
Although the readings you posted tell it should be ideal the picture has visible blue push. Which leaves the most probable option - you use Auto white balance to take photos. Try setting white balance on your camera to Cloudy instead of Auto... Or manually set it to 6500K.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 03:21 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Although the readings you posted tell it should be ideal the picture has visible blue push. Which leaves the most probable option - you use Auto white balance to take photos. Try setting white balance on your camera to Cloudy instead of Auto... Or manually set it to 6500K.

remember, these are shots through the glasses so getting the white balance right is challenging. That's an older photo, lately I have been running a 100% IRE screen in 3D mode and getting a manual white balance. The resulting screen shots are better.

the point is, calibrating through the glasses goes a long way to correcting the color tint of the glasses which is not something any of these projectors takes into account when engaging 3D mode.

The amount of calibration requires wide swings of the offsets / gains (usually pulling down green and blue) to compensate, but I can afford to a lose a little light in exchange for better color in 3D.

the last HW50 I calibrated was 1062 lumens in factory setting with dE's in the 7-8 range, with correction it was a hair under 900 lumens.


3D-Shootout72.jpg

HW50-3DCAL-8-.jpg
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 04:55 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I watched the 2d version of Ralph a few nights ago which looked incredible on the JVC. Tried watching the 3d version last night, but my disc is scratched and freezes/skips no doubt due to the stacking method. rolleyes.gif Of course Best Buy is all out of the 3d version, same with Target near me so I was only able to get a credit. Looking forward to checking out the 3d when I can track it down. Great movie though and solid audio.

I had to wait for the 3D version before being tempted to watch it. Very creative overall. It brought back memories of spending countless quarters in the arcade in the 1980's.

Disney is keeping 3D alive with each new release.
Toe's Avatar Toe 09:44 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I had to wait for the 3D version before being tempted to watch it. Very creative overall. It brought back memories of spending countless quarters in the arcade in the 1980's.

Disney is keeping 3D alive with each new release.

No doubt! Lots of nods to those 80s arcade games which brought back memories of spending countless nights at the arcade in the mall as a kid. I really want to check out the 3d version now! Might just order it off Amazon. I even called a few other places fairly close to me and nobody has this in stock right now. This 3d blu is in high demand it seems.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:47 PM 03-07-2013
I finally had a chance to use my 3D splitter cable I made for the JVC a few years ago. I used this with the JVC IR transmitter and the MV3D RF emitter.

It works with no problems using the new JVC RF emitter. This cable was easy to make, just straight connections on the 3 pin wires.

jvc-splitter.jpg

The latest round of 3D glasses. The new JVC's are too small for my head although I do like the color tint better than the old glasses. The last 2 generation were similar in color tint to the Xpand 103 (The original RS40 OEM glasses) and the current Xpand 104. There is a bit too much green tint in those lens, it's difficult to correct out. The new JVC, Sony, Epson and MV3D's are a little more neutral and easier to calibrate in 3D.

I wish the Optoma ZD201's were larger. They are excellent DLP link glasses, but a little too small where I can see the frame in my side vision.

jvc-splitter1.jpg

So far, the Epson RF glasses are my current favorites.
plissken99's Avatar plissken99 10:53 PM 03-07-2013
Have you tried the Samsung rf glasses? Curious how they stack up against the rest.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 11:52 PM 03-07-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

No doubt! Lots of nods to those 80s arcade games which brought back memories of spending countless nights at the arcade in the mall as a kid. I really want to check out the 3d version now! Might just order it off Amazon. I even called a few other places fairly close to me and nobody has this in stock right now. This 3d blu is in high demand it seems.

Haven't seen it yet (:
fpr's Avatar fpr 02:11 AM 03-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I finally had a chance to use my 3D splitter cable I made for the JVC a few years ago. I used this with the JVC IR transmitter and the MV3D RF emitter.

It works with no problems using the new JVC RF emitter. This cable was easy to make, just straight connections on the 3 pin wires.

jvc-splitter.jpg

The latest round of 3D glasses. The new JVC's are too small for my head although I do like the color tint better than the old glasses. The last 2 generation were similar in color tint to the Xpand 103 (The original RS40 OEM glasses) and the current Xpand 104. There is a bit too much green tint in those lens, it's difficult to correct out. The new JVC, Sony, Epson and MV3D's are a little more neutral and easier to calibrate in 3D.

I wish the Optoma ZD201's were larger. They are excellent DLP link glasses, but a little too small where I can see the frame in my side vision.

jvc-splitter1.jpg

So far, the Epson RF glasses are my current favorites.

Have you tried the new JVC RF glasses? Is there any improvement in brightness and crosstalk/ghosting?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:58 AM 03-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpr View Post

Have you tried the new JVC RF glasses? Is there any improvement in brightness and crosstalk/ghosting?

yes, there is no obvious difference with the new JVC glasses / RF transmitter vs. the IR transmitter + XPand 104 glasses. I also checked the Monster Vision 3D, all 3 perform the same in regard to crosstalk performance & brightness.

unfortunately the JVC glasses are bit too small for me, so I can't use them for an extended period of time.
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