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post #271 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

How Importaint is 3D to you, and are you going to get the unit calibrated?
If 3D is super importaint get a DLP.
If only ~ 1 out of 10 movies, I would still get the Sony. You are not running a massive screen, so 3D should be just fine.
Did Zombie post the lumens in 3D mode?

3D isn't SUPER important. I'd say 1 out of 10 movies, and that's being generous. If the 3D was "acceptable" on the JVC, I'd be going for that but I hear it's awful.

I'll get the unit calibrated depending on how much it costs lol.
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post #272 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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I would also pick the Sony out of those 3, but I wouldn't completely rule out the JVC or Mits hc8000 just yet.



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post #273 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 02:00 PM
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Is there any reason (or hope) to thinking that the upcoming HC8000 will have a less drastic offset than did the HC4000?
The massive offset of the HC4000 prevents it from a proper mounting height for a HP screen use (eyeball height)
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post #274 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 02:23 PM
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If it is the same as the hc7800, then on a 100" screen it should be able to be mounted 10-12" above the screen (not optimal but...)...

Also it might be able to do 1300 lumens in 3D, that is brighter than the ones from last year, so even if you lose .5 gain on the HP (say you are getting 1.3 instead of 1.8 on the HP 2.4 gain), that would be the equivalent of about 1700 lumens vs. say 1980 on the Benq w7000 in 3D. That might be a deal breaker for some with really big screens or setups like Zombie (where he is able to center it perfectly and get 2.5+ gain on his 2.8hp, but those of us on smaller HP 2.4 gain screens should be fine.

After all is said and done through the 3D glasses, that'd be like 600 post-3D lumens with the Benq w7000 vs. 500 post 3D lumens on the hc8000 (just rough estimates). That's about 16-17 fL on a 110" HP 2.4 gain screen (very rough estimate) even for 3D mode. Of course that does not apply if you mount the Benq directly centered (1.8 gain isn't quite perfectly centered, but I like my PJ's to clear my head so I mount them higher even with the HP).

I will just mount it lower when I want to watch 3D, and fudge the install as the lamp loses brightness (there will be some trapezoidal effect, but I can live with a little even without using ANY keystone).



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post #275 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post


Did Zombie post the lumens in 3D mode?

I measured ~ 1064 lumens, center measurement with close to shortest throw.


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post #276 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

3D isn't SUPER important. I'd say 1 out of 10 movies, and that's being generous. If the 3D was "acceptable" on the JVC, I'd be going for that but I hear it's awful.
I'll get the unit calibrated depending on how much it costs lol.

I suggest calling Mike Garrett and getting on the pre-order list for the RS45. I'm still trying to gather more info on the HW50 and I am likely either going to go the route of the HW50 or the RS46 depending on more findings on the HW50. The ghosting in the JVCs is "supposed" to be much better. IMO the lack of FI in 3D hurts the JVCs for anyone who really likes 3D. I would almost be enticed to go the route of the Benq W7000 for 3D and keep my RS45 for 2D but I just can't convince myself to spend $2k on a projector for 3D only especially when there's not a lot of 3D content I will be watching.
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post #277 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

I missed that I thought it was calibrated. In any case, VERY close to D65 imho.
I have a batcave, black everyting, 1.0 screen at 104".

I don't think the Gamut was calibrated either, that's 6700k based on an off-gamut (not d65 or rec709).



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post #278 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 04:06 PM
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Some people like the extra brightness. Provided its generated by the projector and not by refocusing at you by the screen the only real negative is elevated reference black level. I would choose the Sony among the three. There are trade offs among the three. If the Sony ends up being too bright, you couldalways add a high quality ND2 filter, ideally tilting or slanting it to reduce the amount of light boumce back which will slightly lower the ANSI contrast. Whatever you choose, many will think it the wrong choice. That's the way it is here.

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post #279 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Thats pretty impressive. Those pattern look very clean.

So, on the BenQ 7000 there no ghosting at all? Not even a faint? On all differents sources you have see? I mean 100% ghost free all the time?

From what I've seen so far, it's technically impossible for these DLP's to show any kind of ghosting. You can put on the toughest scene and crosstalk that is visible on other projectors is completely gone.

As I mentioned last year on the HW30, the 3D is very good for a non DLP and going to please most folks. I would consider it a non-issue for the most part on the HW50.

The 2 things that stand out for me in comparison of these 2 models are the following:

  • I have a relatively large screen and need to turn up the RC for the sharpness to be to my liking. The RC can make noise a 'moving target' - meaning it's more noticeable in 3D mode since it's being displayed in stereo, so the Rock's shirt in Journey to the Mysterious Island catches my eye. The W7000 has excellent native sharpness and the image is a bit more natural in appearance w/ no software enhancements.

  • Flicker - this is going to vary widely depending on how sensitive folks are. If I didn't see a 3D DLP, it might not be as obvious to me. When the 3D DLP sync's to 3D mode, the image is as solid as when it's in 2D mode. This makes extended viewing of 3D like Titanic a breeze. I'm convinced the very subtle flicker may be the root cause of why people in general complain about discomfort when viewing 3D.


Sony HW50, no glasses - L &R 3D pattern - Youtube video link, 9 seconds

BenQ W7000 - no glasses, L&R 3D pattern - Youtube video link, 9 seconds



Last year in regard to flicker, it went something like this:

JVC < Sony HW30 / VW95 < Epson 5010 < Benq W7000.


Overall though, I think it's a nice 3D projector with decent brightness @ 1064 lumens and has a good handle on controlling ghosting for a non-DLP.


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post #280 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 05:37 PM
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Is buying W7000 still a good choice? or HW50ES is very much superior, specially with RC? Would choosing between W7000 and HW50 is an easy choice?
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post #281 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 06:09 PM
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I'm in the same position, but i'm also thinking of the jvc x55r
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post #282 of 9147 Old 10-25-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackdevil77 View Post

I am so stuck on which projector I want, it's painful. Dedicated theater, 106-110 inch screen and stuck between the Sony HW50, the Panny AE8000, and the Epson 6020. Decisions decisions

I'm in the same position but also thinking the JVC x55 might be worth the extra money...
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post #283 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 12:16 AM
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Hi Zombie,

It might be interesting to test your RS55 with new JVC RF glasses to see if the improvements in 3D in RS56 is only the 3D glasses and the new RF transmitter.

One question, In the comparison you made between Sony HW50/benq 7000, Did you use the original Sony glasses or the Monster Visison glasses?

Best Regards
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post #284 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Why did you scratch off the hc8000, I mean it might not be as good as it looks since the hc7800 fell short, but we don't know until Zombie reviews it.
We are all stuck until Zombie finishes, he's going to need at least 3-4 more weeks probably.

The HC8000 looks great but has no horizontal lens shift which is less flexible in installing than the BenQ 7000, Sony HW50, JVC RS48, ....

Best regards.
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post #285 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 12:54 AM
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Yeah, the lack of horizontal lens shift makes it a nightmare installing it on a ceiling mount.
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post #286 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 02:48 AM
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post #287 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Yeah, the lack of horizontal lens shift makes it a nightmare installing it on a ceiling mount.

There are sinple mount accessories called for example "lateral shift bracket" which will make your dreams better. In the case of Chief mounts, the bracket when added to a mount enables the projector to be shifted 4 inches in any direction.
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post #288 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 06:08 AM
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Hey, thanks!
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post #289 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpr View Post

Hi Zombie,
It might be interesting to test your RS55 with new JVC RF glasses to see if the improvements in 3D in RS56 is only the 3D glasses and the new RF transmitter.

One question, In the comparison you made between Sony HW50/benq 7000, Did you use the original Sony glasses or the Monster Visison glasses?

Best Regards

If I still have the RS55 by the time the RS56 arrives, I''ll certainly try the new RF transmitter + glasses to see if it makes any improvements to the current models.

In the comparison photos, I used the factory Sony glasses with the brightness set to 3. The Xpand 104's perform the same as the Sony glasses and are more comfortable, but the tint color is more noticeable. I should be able to calibrate this out as I've done with the other glasses. I'll run some more tests with the MV3D's this weekend.

AVScience just received their stock of the 5020's, so we should be adding that to the shootout next week sometime.


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post #290 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 07:45 AM
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The HW50 pics had looked rather sharp that is until comparing the Journey 2 pics between the HW50 and the Benq. Does the pics in person really look that much sharper or is this big of a difference mostly related to what is being seen in 3D only? I know your screen is 142" (mine is 119") and the difference probably won't be quite as big but...
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post #291 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

The HW50 pics had looked rather sharp that is until comparing the Journey 2 pics between the HW50 and the Benq. Does the pics in person really look that much sharper or is this big of a difference mostly related to what is being seen in 3D only? I know your screen is 142" (mine is 119") and the difference probably won't be quite as big but...

The 142" isn't very forgiving here, it's larger than most folks are running. Plus I sit closer than most as well @ 1.25 SW (~ 14 feet from the 142")

If I keep the RC controls in 3D at the factory setting (Resolution = 50), MPEG reduction = OFF, it looks pretty close to the W7000. The offset is the noticeable 'noise' which becomes a moving target even with a very clean source like Journey to the Mysterious island. 3D Animations don't suffer as much. If I turn it down to resolution = 30 and MPEG = low, it helps quite a bit but appears softer than the W7000.

Given most screens are 100-120", this should be a none issue running the lower RC settings.


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post #292 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 07:58 AM
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That's how I feel with my 172" equivalent, lol. Not forgiving at all...

I would love 3000 lumens in 3D and 5000 lumens in 2D smile.gif


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post #293 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

That's how I feel with my 172" equivalent, lol. Not forgiving at all...

Do you sell tickets with that commercial sized picture? smile.gif

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post #294 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:06 AM
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Do you sell tickets with that commercial sized picture? smile.gif

No, but the reaction I get from visitors is nice enough... smile.gif


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post #295 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

That's how I feel with my 172" equivalent, lol. Not forgiving at all...
I would love 3000 lumens in 3D and 5000 lumens in 2D smile.gif

There are projectors that can do this. I currently at my office have 5200 lumen projectors.

The question is then Cost and Contrast Ratio

But that is talk on another section of the forum.
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post #296 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:21 AM
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There are projectors that can do this. I currently at my office have 5200 lumen projectors.
The question is then Cost and Contrast Ratio
But that is talk on another section of the forum.

I know. But I'm greedy and want my 20,000:1+ ratios too!

And don't have a budget above $8000.00

Couple years out yet... Lol.


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post #297 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:26 AM
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I don't think at this moment you will get the contrast unless they figure out how to do scanning of some sort.
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post #298 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:40 AM
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I know. But I'm greedy and want my 20,000:1+ ratios too! And don't have a budget above $8000.00 Couple years out yet... Lol.

Thank you for doing this. Your room is outstanding, you must lose yourself in such an amazing screen how wide is it? I know you said 150" diagonal. The sound must be great as well with a 9.2 system smile.gif

My humble Cinema
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post #299 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 08:41 AM
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Will answer in my build thread.


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post #300 of 9147 Old 10-26-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The 142" isn't very forgiving here, it's larger than most folks are running. Plus I sit closer than most as well @ 1.25 SW (~ 14 feet from the 142")
If I keep the RC controls in 3D at the factory setting (Resolution = 50), MPEG reduction = OFF, it looks pretty close to the W7000. The offset is the noticeable 'noise' which becomes a moving target even with a very clean source like Journey to the Mysterious island. 3D Animations don't suffer as much. If I turn it down to resolution = 30 and MPEG = low, it helps quite a bit but appears softer than the W7000.
Given most screens are 100-120", this should be a none issue running the lower RC settings.

Thanks!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

That's how I feel with my 172" equivalent, lol. Not forgiving at all...
I would love 3000 lumens in 3D and 5000 lumens in 2D smile.gif

Be careful with those lumens, you'll shoot your eye(s) out!!! LOL
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