Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 9505 Old 01-22-2013, 11:58 PM
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There is Dune HD Base 3D available from this January http://dune-hd.com/eng/products/full_hd_media_players/37 smile.gif
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post #3152 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

For Lumagen owners, they'll get the same results if they run 21pt grayscale and adjust luminance of 5% grayscale, right? Kevin benefits again with his X35. lol.

Yes. new firmware for unsaturated green as well! Don't say not possible.

Not quite, SOWK would like to adjust at 1%, but I could move the 5% control down to 1% in the Lumagen if I want to and tweak that, so yes I benefit again with my X35/Lumagen. wink.gif I just used some of the money I saved by getting the X35 instead of the X55 last night and bought some secondhand speakers (PMC Wafer 1 that I've been after for years as side surrounds) so the money still ends up getting spent. biggrin.gif There's enough left for a 50/55" Panasonic plasma too, but I might wait for the VT60 range to land...

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #3153 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by freebits View Post

@Geoff so you prefer running 0% patterns to bringing up AVSHD disc when setting up black level? Do you do that by naked eye not by meter?

I suspect you know most of this but I'll give my rational.....
I do use the AVS disk for checking Brightness. But I also use the method I described earlier as I never want to increase the black floor - regardless of how well I can see level 17. For example, adjusting the brightness control from 0 to +1 makes level 17 easier to see but it also raises level 16. That is a compromise I'm not willing to make. By displaying a 0% pattern and changing brightness between 0 and +1 I can clearly, and easily, see a luminance change. Not good. Another way to do this uses the "Hide" trick. It entails displaying a level 16 (0%) pattern and comparing that to using the JVC Hide command. Hide is the absolute lowest black the projector can produce. If there is a difference in luminance between the 0% pattern and the Hide "pattern" the black floor of the projector is being raised.

The way to improve the visibility of level 17 without compromising level 16 is with a custom gamma curve....some use the dark level control.

Edit....I probably didn't answer your question....Yes, I prefer the 0% pattern with either of the methods described (I usually try both since it's just a different remote command). I use the Lumagen to generate the 0% pattern. I don't use a meter because I'm lazy and would have to have it facing the projector to get any sort of reliable reading. Next time I calibrate I may try a BT1886 curve and in that case I will need to have the meter facing the projector because I need to input the black floor level in cd/m2 so I'll have the opportunity to see if I've been fooling myself with the 0% meter-less method. But I also run the brightness pattern on the AVS disc as a sanity check. Plus, it's useful to look at this after fiddling with gamma.

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post #3154 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

There's enough left for a 50/55" Panasonic plasma too, but I might wait for the VT60 range to land...

Pfftt..... get the ZT. Go big or go home. tongue.gif

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post #3155 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I suspect you know most of this but I'll give my rational.....
I do use the AVS disk for checking Brightness. But I also use the method I described earlier as I never want to increase the black floor - regardless of how well I can see level 17. For example, adjusting the brightness control from 0 to +1 makes level 17 easier to see but it also raises level 16. That is a compromise I'm not willing to make. By displaying a 0% pattern and changing brightness between 0 and +1 I can clearly, and easily, see a luminance change. Not good. Another way to do this uses the "Hide" trick. It entails displaying a level 16 (0%) pattern and comparing that to using the JVC Hide command. Hide is the absolute lowest black the projector can produce. If there is a difference in luminance between the 0% pattern and the Hide "pattern" the black floor of the projector is being raised.

The way to improve the visibility of level 17 without compromising level 16 is with a custom gamma curve....some use the dark level control.

it seems to me the best pattern for adjusting Brightness would be a level 16 bar flashing on a level zero background. (Assuming the video chain is capable of producing BTB.) Combine this with a second pattern with a level 17 bar flashing on a level zero background. Set Brightness so that the flashing 16 just barely disappears. Then go to the next pattern and check that the flashing 17 is just barely visible. Lots of flashing bars are distracting and make it difficult to tell if one particular bar is flashing.
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post #3156 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Not quite, SOWK would like to adjust at 1%, but I could move the 5% control down to 1% in the Lumagen if I want to and tweak that, so yes I benefit again with my X35/Lumagen. wink.gif I just used some of the money I saved by getting the X35 instead of the X55 last night and bought some secondhand speakers (PMC Wafer 1 that I've been after for years as side surrounds) so the money still ends up getting spent. biggrin.gif There's enough left for a 50/55" Panasonic plasma too, but I might wait for the VT60 range to land...

I have been spending quite a bit of time with a VT50 lately.......best image I have personally seen to date! eek.gif Every time I come home, my RS45 (even calibrated) seems to be missing something. Amazing flat panel though and the new models will only get better I am sure.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #3157 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 10:13 AM
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Trouble is that I hardly watch TV: It's on, but I'm looking on my laptop most of the time. The only time I really focus on the film is when I dim the lights and watch something on my projector, so it's hard to justify replacing the current 5 year old Sony LCD (calibrated to 125 points using the Lumagen of course, plenty of spare memories and a HDMI splitter help here wink.gif ).

I'm just about at 100 hours now on my X35, so I'll probably re do the calibration soon, so it'll be interesting to see if the red has dropped much in the first 100 hours as the lux reading has scarcely changed from new. Once some other DIY projects are finished then onto some room improvements to make the most of the JVC. cool.gif

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #3158 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I have been spending quite a bit of time with a VT50 lately.......best image I have personally seen to date! eek.gif Every time I come home, my RS45 (even calibrated) seems to be missing something. Amazing flat panel though and the new models will only get better I am sure.
Don't spoil my eggs. I'm about to buy my 1st projector.
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post #3159 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3160 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 10:46 AM
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So I decided on the HW50, I think for right now it will serve all of my purposes and I will get a second projector for 2D at some point, maybe when Red comes out with their projector. My question is, is the RC that much better for 3D? I am half thinking about ponying up a little extra cash and getting the 95ES instead of the HW50. The response times are the same correct?
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post #3161 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 11:31 AM
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Geoffrey Morrison does his own mini-shootout in the Feb-Mar 2013 issue of Sound and Vision. It's a pretty good piece, I think, and comes to many of the conclusions we have here. The Epson 6020's a light canon, the Sony HW50 is very balanced overall, and contrast on the JVC X35 kills. Which projector did he end up watching and exclaiming "Wow!" about the most - the JVC X35. If not for poor 3D performance, there's little doubt in my mind that I'd still be using one.

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post #3162 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 11:37 AM
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post #3163 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Geoffrey Morrison does his own mini-shootout in the Feb-Mar 2013 issue of Sound and Vision. It's a pretty good piece, I think, and comes to many of the conclusions we have here. The Epson 6020's a light canon, the Sony HW50 is very balanced overall, and contrast on the JVC X35 kills. Which projector did he end up watching and exclaiming "Wow!" about the most - the JVC X35. If not for poor 3D performance, there's little doubt in my mind that I'd still be using one.

did you read this review, can you tell us something about it
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post #3164 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Don't spoil my eggs. I'm about to buy my 1st projector.

Dont get me wrong........overall I would not trade my FP setup for the VT50 mainly due to the different size/immersion factor. As far as pure PQ goes though..........man those VT50 sets are nice. cool.gif No way am I trading out my 9' wide image for a 65" diagonal flat panel though! I am sure you will absolutely love going to a FP setup as the overall experience cant be beat IMO.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #3165 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

did you read this review, can you tell us something about it

Yes, I read it. He gives black level and brightness measurements, contrast numbers, etc. for his screen and setup. He says all three are better than last year's models, and much better than $10,000 projectors from not very long ago. He notes that ghosting is worst on the JVC, but that overall he prefers it because of the high native contrast. It seems very much in line with many of the conclusions we're seeing here. In other words, most people are going to be happy with any of these projectors, but your priorities will determine which is the best fit for you.

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post #3166 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 01:40 PM
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My first projector ever just arrived today. I decided on the HW50. My room has a ways to go to be done, but I think I've convinced the wife to let me throw the image on the living room wall for a while. If it looks decent enough it will be there til my room is complete. biggrin.gif

Should be a bit of an upgrade from my first two displays: A 27" Sony Wega tube and a 32" Panasonic LCD.

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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Yes, I read it. He gives black level and brightness measurements, contrast numbers, etc. for his screen and setup. He says all three are better than last year's models, and much better than $10,000 projectors from not very long ago. He notes that ghosting is worst on the JVC, but that overall he prefers it because of the high native contrast. It seems very much in line with many of the conclusions we're seeing here. In other words, most people are going to be happy with any of these projectors, but your priorities will determine which is the best fit for you.

thank you bro, i m from turkey is it any chance to see or buy it online and read on notebook?
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post #3168 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

My first projector ever just arrived today. I decided on the HW50. My room has a ways to go to be done, but I think I've convinced the wife to let me throw the image on the living room wall for a while. If it looks decent enough it will be there til my room is complete. biggrin.gif

Should be a bit of an upgrade from my first two displays: A 27" Sony Wega tube and a 32" Panasonic LCD.

Dude, please invite me over to see it when you get your room ready!! I'd love to see a Sony HW50 set up in a good space. The closest I've gotten is a Sony HW30 at the Best Buy Magnolia store in Brentwood.

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post #3169 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 01:52 PM
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My first projector ever just arrived today. I decided on the HW50. My room has a ways to go to be done, but I think I've convinced the wife to let me throw the image on the living room wall for a while. If it looks decent enough it will be there til my room is complete.

Congratulations - awesome first projector !!

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post #3170 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Can someone share the xYY equivalents of the rs46, rs4810 and rs55?

rs46=X35
rs4810=x55
rs55=X70
if you meant
rs56=X75
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post #3171 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:09 PM
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Just had a thought re 3D on JVCs: Has anyone tried raising the brightness level which will reduce the contrast? I'm just thinking that some of the cheaper 3D projectors that give a 'better' less ghosting 3D image yet have a lower contrast by far than the JVC. Just thinking if it makes any difference it might at least mean there would be less point buying a separate projector for 3D. I haven't got any 3D glasses or emitter with my X35 (I can't watch 3D for long anyway due to headaches).

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #3172 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

thank you bro, i m from turkey is it any chance to see or buy it online and read on notebook?

I subscribe to the paper magazine, but I don't know if they have a digital version. It's Sound and Vision magazine.

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post #3173 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:20 PM
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I subscribe to the paper magazine, but I don't know if they have a digital version. It's Sound and Vision magazine.

 

I couldn't get the link to work but their website here shows a digital edition should be available:

 

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post #3174 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

My first projector ever just arrived today. I decided on the HW50. My room has a ways to go to be done, but I think I've convinced the wife to let me throw the image on the living room wall for a while. If it looks decent enough it will be there til my room is complete. biggrin.gif

Should be a bit of an upgrade from my first two displays: A 27" Sony Wega tube and a 32" Panasonic LCD.

 

Let's put it this way...this was also my first projector and the first time I turned it on and projected onto a beige (not even white!) wall I was asking myself why in the h*ll I spent so much on a screen! eek.gif

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post #3175 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:26 PM
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Let's put it this way...this was also my first projector and the first time I turned it on and projected onto a beige (not even white!) wall I was asking myself why in the h*ll I spent so much on a screen! eek.gif

Its funny you say that, as I will be temporarily throwing it on a beige wall. Lol. Good to hear. I look forward to turning it on later!

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post #3176 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:37 PM
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Does the Darbee work with 3D content? I have found RC on the Sony 50 to work wonders with the right material but for some movies (2 out of the last 10 maybe) even its minimal setting is over cooked for my tastes in face closeups. If I had Sony's ear i would ask that they allow even lower settings for RC in the future. Also, is it correct that the Sony HW50 firmware is not user upgradable?

Thanks
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post #3177 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Dude, please invite me over to see it when you get your room ready!! I'd love to see a Sony HW50 set up in a good space. The closest I've gotten is a Sony HW30 at the Best Buy Magnolia store in Brentwood.

Ha! Never saw you were in St. Louis. I live very close to the Brentwood store and frequent it. My room probably wont be operational for a month or so. Not sure what your timeline is.

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post #3178 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Dont get me wrong........overall I would not trade my FP setup for the VT50 mainly due to the different size/immersion factor. As far as pure PQ goes though..........man those VT50 sets are nice. cool.gif No way am I trading out my 9' wide image for a 65" diagonal flat panel though! I am sure you will absolutely love going to a FP setup as the overall experience cant be beat IMO.

I would need 4 of those TV's to fill up my 142"... biggrin.gif

65 inch 16x9 display vs 142 inch 16x9 display

65-inch-16x9-vs-142-inch-16x9.png
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post #3179 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Ha! Never saw you were in St. Louis. I live very close to the Brentwood store and frequent it. My room probably wont be operational for a month or so. Not sure what your timeline is.

I'm sure we can find a time. Good luck getting everything set up the way you want.

I've met several really nice people in St. Louis through AVS. It's my "social media" site, especially since I don't do Facebook or Twitter. smile.gif

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post #3180 of 9505 Old 01-23-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fingersdlp View Post

Does the Darbee work with 3D content? I have found RC on the Sony 50 to work wonders with the right material but for some movies (2 out of the last 10 maybe) even its minimal setting is over cooked for my tastes in face closeups. If I had Sony's ear i would ask that they allow even lower settings for RC in the future. Also, is it correct that the Sony HW50 firmware is not user upgradable?

Thanks

The Darbee works fine in 3D mode. I agree about the RC in certain movies, I would have liked a setting to turn it down even further below the 'minimum' setting. I wouldn't expect a firmware update since the HW30 and HW50 can not be updated by the end user.
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