Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 112 - AVS Forum
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post #3331 of 9811 Old 01-30-2013, 11:21 PM
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Thanks, Toe. I can pick one up at a local store that has a good return policy, so I might do that. I'm still debating internally. biggrin.gif

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post #3332 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

I love JVC projectors for 2D. That being said I can't deal with the ghosting and lack of brightness for 3D. I have gone the 2 projector route with a Benq 1070 for 3D and general some general viewing. If you don't have a problem with RBE just compare a DLP projector on 3D with any JVC. If one is not interested in 3d or views in on rarely the JVC will probably be fine. It all depends on the individual and if ghosting and flicker will bother you on 3d.

And I'd say if you DO see rainbows as i do, the Epson 5020 is your best bet. I really have to look to see ghosting. I'm sure the newer JVC's are better, but my RS40 with a brand new bulb couldn't begin to match the 5020 in 3D (also with a pretty new bulb at this point) for brightness and ghosting.
Having both is really a sweet set up, as I can save the Epson for 3D and the bulb should last a good while before 3D performance starts to suffer.

I'm totally sold that a JVC for 2D and a BenQ 7000 or Epson 5020 for 3D is the current way to go.

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post #3333 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S A M 33 View Post

... I'm totally sold that a JVC for 2D and a BenQ 7000 or Epson 5020 for 3D is the current way to go.

S A M 33

I wanted to add a little context... I'd say the above may be true for some as long as

1) You don't play games on your projector
2) You have a modern AV receiver that allows lip sync to be adjusted

The latency of these projectors, IMHO, requires the above conditions in order to have a satisfactory experience.
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post #3334 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 09:13 AM
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I should be able to get it out to you early next week. PM me your shipping details and I will have it out to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I sent ravex a PM, i'd definitely be interested in adding the Panasonic 8000 to the
shoot-out thread. I still have the 5020, so I would do a direct A/B between the Epson and Panasonic.
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post #3335 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

I wanted to add a little context... I'd say the above may be true for some as long as

1) You don't play games on your projector
2) You have a modern AV receiver that allows lip sync to be adjusted

The latency of these projectors, IMHO, requires the above conditions in order to have a satisfactory experience.


I agree with you that the lag time is too high on the Epson and JVCs in particular (JVC more than Epson) and I really hope improvements can be made here next year, BUT casual gamers will be fine playing games on these machines. I played games off and on with my RS1, SRS40 and RS45 and never found lag to be an issue. The BenQ 7000 improves things more with its 50ms. It was only when I got a game that I was serious about (SSX) that I noticed a slight, but noticeable difference between my 45 and the plasma upstairs. So my opinion is casual type gamers will be fine with playing games on any of these projectors, but super competitive type players who play a lot of FPS or fast twitch type games might want to look at something like an Epson 8350 with its 18ms of lag or if you need 3d, the Sonys or Panasonic projectors which are still good at ~30ms.


I have never noticed any lip sync issues due to latency with my RS1, 40,45 or 7000. My 885 pre/pro does have a lip sync adjustment if I needed it, but I have never felt any need to use it.

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post #3336 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I agree with you that the lag time is too high on the Epson and JVCs in particular (JVC more than Epson) and I really hope improvements can be made here next year, BUT casual gamers will be fine playing games on these machines. I played games off and on with my RS1, SRS40 and RS45 and never found lag to be an issue. The BenQ 7000 improves things more with its 50ms. It was only when I got a game that I was serious about (SSX) that I noticed a slight, but noticeable difference between my 45 and the plasma upstairs. So my opinion is casual type gamers will be fine with playing games on any of these projectors, but super competitive type players who play a lot of FPS or fast twitch type games might want to look at something like an Epson 8350 with its 18ms of lag or if you need 3d, the Sonys or Panasonic projectors which are still good at ~30ms.


I have never noticed any lip sync issues due to latency with my RS1, 40,45 or 7000. My 885 pre/pro does have a lip sync adjustment if I needed it, but I have never felt any need to use it.

It's all very specific to the individual. Lip sync problems are very noticeable to me and ruin the experience. I've read that anything above 20ms is often noticeable and frustrating to many, so 70ms or greater is quite obvious! Again, this is only a problem if your AV receiver is old (like mine) and doesn't support a compensation delay.

One reason I went with the HW30, in addition to playing games, was I didn't want to spend more money to upgrade my otherwise perfectly fine receiver. Others may be in the same boat and this situation isn't often called out.
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post #3337 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 11:51 AM
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Credit upfront for freebits for finding this; evidently (according to the AVForums.com review) there's a software error causing the X55/RS48/RS4810 green undersaturation error than many of us have noticed and measured. Their second projector sample's CMS was completely able to perfectly calibrate green while their first sample was showing green errors almost identical to what we've all noticed.

Hopefully JVC can fix this with a firmware update...I'll shoot a PM to Mike to see if he can get more info from JVC about it.
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post #3338 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm curious to see how that pans out. This isn't the first time a similar issue was discovered with previous models and nothing was done about it. The color profiles could likely been fixed/updated with a new firmware, but it never happened.
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post #3339 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm curious to see how that pans out. This isn't the first time a similar issue was discovered with previous models and nothing was done about it. The color profiles could likely been fixed/updated with a new firmware, but it never happened.
The difference (maybe) this time is that evidently JVC's already implemented a fix -- evidenced by the fact that AVForum's second unit had the issue corrected.

Mike's contacted JVC's engineers about the issue so we'll see what, if anything, they have to say. In my case I managed to get my green dE2000 below 3 but it took quite a bit of finagling since changing one CMS control typically affected a completely different characteristic than I expected it to. Also, a software issue wouldn't totally surprise me since increasing the green saturation control beyond 0 had absolutely no measurable effect on the picture.

We'll see.
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post #3340 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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~3 isn't bad, it could be within the spec of the meter, but since there hasn't been any reports from the X35 or the X75/95, hopefully it's just a tweak via a remote firmware download.

My only concern is that it could be similar to the 3D fix for the X35/RS46 and might need to be sent in. Let us know what JVC has to say.
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post #3341 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 01:18 PM
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I currently have an RS2 with almost 2k hours on the lamp. I use a .3 ND filter to lower light output on my small 40x96 1.0 gain screen. I don't see the pixels from my 1x screen width viewing distance. If I remove the filter, I can see pixels just a little bit. Since I can't see pixels, with the filter in place, would there be any real advantage of e-shift? My room is all black velvet by the way. The only e-shift projectors i can afford are the 4810 and a used 55.

Ideally, I would go with a JVC for 2D and a under $2k DLP for 3D but I can't find a 3D DLP that will work in my small 13' deep room. I use the CIH zoom method so this only complicates things. Since I like a much dimmer picture than most, I wonder if the JVC would be good enough for 3D as ghosting would lessen.confused.gif

I will only consider JVC for 2D.

Thanks,
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My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
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post #3342 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

...Forum are great. We get trained to see every weakness that a particular projector has rather than just enjoying what it does do and training ourselves NOT to see problems.

...His projector is great. He enjoys it and doesn't see the ghosting. He is a lucky man.

IMO, words of wisdom...
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post #3343 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

~3 isn't bad, it could be within the spec of the meter, but since there hasn't been any reports from the X35 or the X75/95, hopefully it's just a tweak via a remote firmware download.

My only concern is that it could be similar to the 3D fix for the X35/RS46 and might need to be sent in. Let us know what JVC has to say.
I doubt it's simply within spec of the meter since the green's saturation control literally does nothing. I'll keep everyone posted since I know I'm not the only one to have noticed the green undersaturation.
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post #3344 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 02:48 PM
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If I had the reported undersaturation I would not send it in. It will not be noticeable for the vat majority of anyone's viewing. The hassles of sending it in, have the shipper use it as shot put, yada yada to correct a few colors. Not worth it. And if you think it is, I would at least thing about you being neurotic.

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post #3345 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravex911 View Post

I should be able to get it out to you early next week. PM me your shipping details and I will have it out to you.

great, thanks very much! I'll calibrate it for you in 2D and 3D as well.
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post #3346 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmaddog View Post

IMO, words of wisdom...

Well with certain content on certain projectors or at a certain lamp age the image is unwatchable. There is no training to see it, it gets to the point where anyone and everyone sees it. The images eventually get completely separated to the point your eyes cannot even see the 3D solidly anymore, and 80%+ of content becomes unwatchable in 3D. A tiny bit of occasional crosstalk on edges is only the luck of a new lamp in the beginning, this is not how things look as time goes by. My dog cannot even watch because he barks at the ghosting.


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post #3347 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^^ stop feeding into it, mark is busting our chops for being critics yet he has a 25K projector with a super expensive screen to avoid the awful PQ of these 3K projector + HP screen. cool.gif
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post #3348 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

If I had the reported undersaturation I would not send it in. It will not be noticeable for the vat majority of anyone's viewing. The hassles of sending it in, have the shipper use it as shot put, yada yada to correct a few colors. Not worth it. And if you think it is, I would at least thing about you being neurotic.
I'm right there with ya. I'll probably just live with it if it can't be solved via a firmware update that I can do myself.

Back in the day I had a Sony VPL-HS10 that spent the latter stages of its life making round trips between my old home in Utah and Laredo, Texas. After every trip there'd be a new problem.
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post #3349 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

^^^^ stop feeding into it, mark is busting our chops for being critics yet he has a 25K projector with a super expensive screen to avoid the awful PQ of these 3K projector + HP screen. cool.gif

The Stewart Screen is expensive. Mark told me to look into Joe Kane's JKP Affinity 1.1 screen made by Da-Lite. It is surprisingly cheap. After getting samples from Stewart, Da-Lite and Carada I have to say the nicest material by far was the JKP Affinity 1.1 material. For a fixed screen with that material, it will only set me back a couple hundred extra dollars compared to what I payed for my Da-Lite HPHC Deluxe Model B screen. I'm thinking once I get my LED projector back from it's RMA trip I may ditch the HP screen and my Marantz projector.

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post #3350 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 05:18 PM
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The HPHC material is different than the vanilla HP 2.4 material, right?
Did you try the vanilla 2.4 as well?


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post #3351 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 06:09 PM
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I just ordered a Black Diamond Zero Edge 115" screen. I will also be ordering the Sony HW50. My electrician is coming tomorrow so I need to know how far back should I mount the projector? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

JT
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post #3352 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The HPHC material is different than the vanilla HP 2.4 material, right?
Did you try the vanilla 2.4 as well?

I received a sample of the regular 2.4 material. It looks the same as the HPHC with the exception of a grey base.

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post #3353 of 9811 Old 01-31-2013, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiguej View Post

I just ordered a Black Diamond Zero Edge 115" screen. I will also be ordering the Sony HW50. My electrician is coming tomorrow so I need to know how far back should I mount the projector? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

JT

Check here:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-VPL-HW50ES-projection-calculator-pro.htm

You can mount it anywhere from 17' 7" and 11' 7" away from the screen and it will fit your 115" screen.

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post #3354 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The HPHC material is different than the vanilla HP 2.4 material, right?
Did you try the vanilla 2.4 as well?

I have both screens at home. They are quite similar in the sweet-spot (same structure and brightness), but the HCHP has a much more aggressive drop off.
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post #3355 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Mark told me to look into Joe Kane's JKP Affinity 1.1 screen made by Da-Lite. It is surprisingly cheap. After getting samples from Stewart, Da-Lite and Carada I have to say the nicest material by far was the JKP Affinity 1.1 material.
HI
Any idea if this JKP Affinity screen material can be obtain somewhere as bulk material to DIY ?
Thks.
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post #3356 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The Stewart Screen is expensive. Mark told me to look into Joe Kane's JKP Affinity 1.1 screen made by Da-Lite. It is surprisingly cheap. After getting samples from Stewart, Da-Lite and Carada I have to say the nicest material by far was the JKP Affinity 1.1 material. For a fixed screen with that material, it will only set me back a couple hundred extra dollars compared to what I payed for my Da-Lite HPHC Deluxe Model B screen. I'm thinking once I get my LED projector back from it's RMA trip I may ditch the HP screen and my Marantz projector.
I'm ditching my HP screen also. Moving to a neutral gain screen, Carada, Snomatt, or JKP 1.1
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post #3357 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The Stewart Screen is expensive. Mark told me to look into Joe Kane's JKP Affinity 1.1 screen made by Da-Lite. It is surprisingly cheap. After getting samples from Stewart, Da-Lite and Carada I have to say the nicest material by far was the JKP Affinity 1.1 material. For a fixed screen with that material, it will only set me back a couple hundred extra dollars compared to what I payed for my Da-Lite HPHC Deluxe Model B screen. I'm thinking once I get my LED projector back from it's RMA trip I may ditch the HP screen and my Marantz projector.
I'm ditching my HP screen also. Moving to a neutral gain screen, Carada, Snomatt, or JKP 1.1

Why ditching your HP screen ?
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post #3358 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 07:16 AM
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So just ordered my X35 and am really wondering how big the difference to my Infocus 8604 is going to be ;-) Has anybody here ever compared these two?

I've had seven DLP's over the years but never a DiLA. Hope I don't regret ist ;-)

thanks, Mike
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post #3359 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 07:35 AM
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Howdy guys,
I just joined AVS after reading through this thread. I've been sick the last few days, and I've spent the better part of my free time reading through every post in this shootout. All I can say is...wow. My brain is full of lumens, convergence, crosstalk, foot-lamberts, gamma, ghosting, gray scale, latency, DLP, LCD, LCOS, & SXRD. I certainly know more about projectors than before. However, the purpose of my original visit to AVS was to glean some insight towards what projector deserves my hard earned cash right now. Instead, I've found the "best" seems to have a lot to do with a user's opinion and preference to one technology over another.
Zombie10k's data has been informative and thorough without question. However, his posts on some pages, have been few and far between. Is this shootout complete? Zombie10k, will your findings be compiled at some point and your data placed in one spot, i.e., at the beginning of this thread? Lastly, is there a clear winner of best overall projector?
Thanks for all the work. wink.gif
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post #3360 of 9811 Old 02-01-2013, 07:46 AM
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is there a clear winner of best overall projector?
If we talk about 'overall', it would be Sony HW-50. But that's just my opinion. biggrin.gif
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