Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 114 - AVS Forum
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post #3391 of 8908 Old 02-01-2013, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, i'm working on compiling all the summaries on the first page. A kind AVS member volunteered his Panasonic 8000 which i'll add soon to the mini-shootout.

send me a PM and tell me about your room where you're installing the projector.

Great! PM sent. Thank you!

Appreciate everyone else's advice as well. The Sony is what I'm leaning towards ATM. However, the Epson was my first choice before reading this thread, and it's still in the running. wink.gif
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post #3392 of 8908 Old 02-01-2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well Severtson has the WORST customer service I've experienced. Multiple attempts to contact the company for screen samples have been fruitless, I finally got a hold of a guy who promised to send samples which never arrived and he no longer answers the phone. I finally found a local dealer who had some samples for me try, unfortunatly the only sample of interest was the SeVision 3D GX, and stellar white 1.3, which I really need the 2.2 for proper comparison. The SeVision is a nice material, probably better than Firehawk if thats what your going for because of the added brightness, but it's every bit as sparkly as the Firehawk. The Stellar White 1.3 is a nice material, there is a slight bit of sparkle, but I could get used to it. I'm betting the 2.2 however will have much more sparkle.

I'm still trying to get someone to send a stellar white 2.2 sample, but my hopes aren't high. So far I'm guessing I'll be sticking to hi power.

I had the same experience. Though I only sent a simple email asking for samples. That was two weeks ago and I never received a response back. I have to say that Da-Lite has been a pleasure to work with. Between my replacement, which came the other day and turned out to be GREAT as it has none of the issues the previous screen had, and emailing them they have been a wonderful company to deal with from a customer service stand point. Fast response times and reasonable when it comes to replacement/warranty issues. They payed for all the shipping charges and the production manager gave extra attention to my replacement. I couldn't be happier.
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post #3393 of 8908 Old 02-01-2013, 10:55 PM
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hi guys,
last week i see a demo of sony hw50es, its just coming to my country.

here's my personal opinion for about 1 hour demo:
The dealer are projecting comparison image from 2 projector (sony hw50 and infocus 8604)
- the infocus 8604 looks soft in compared to sony hw50 (RC set to15 or 20, picture mode in reference)

the sony have sharp image, good contrast, bright enough, smooth motion., deep black

but i feel somelike the sony lack of filmlike feeling, the image looks digital and lacks of depth.

also my eyes feel fatigue when watching the sony 3D, i feel some fast flickering.

so now i have doubt to buy sony HW50,

I want to find Benq W7000 demo and i'll see if i like it.

How about your opinion guys?


thanx

out of topic :
in another day, i see a demo of optoma HD33 in another dealer, me and my friends eye feel unconfortable/fatigue when watching the movie in 2D.
then we see a demo of sim2 crystalview 35, picture looks beauty and eye feel more comfortable
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post #3394 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post

As a matter of fact I am in contact with one US based vendor even willing to ship to France, but not the JKP fabric, seems to be exclusiv to Da-Lite vendors.

What fabric are you looking at? I live in Ireland and I am thinking of importing some material for my new screen.
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post #3395 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 03:28 AM
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PM sent ....
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post #3396 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The JKP Affinity material is made by Da-Lite, that's why.
Yes, but what I meant is that the JKP Affinity seems to not be available as bulk material, only as ready made screens unlike many other Da-Lite fabrics.
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post #3397 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crowehaqe View Post

Out of the various DLP projectors mentioned throughout this thread (mits, benQ, sharp, etc) can any actually be ceiling mounted around 6-10" above the screen? For some reason I've gotten the impression that they can't... True?

The Mitsubishi 8000 DLP can be mounted above the screen. Check the manual, page 10 shows the offset based on the screen size.

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/wp-content/files_mf/8000d_manual.pdf
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post #3398 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jj-34 View Post

Yes, but what I meant is that the JKP Affinity seems to not be available as bulk material, only as ready made screens unlike many other Da-Lite fabrics.

This materials is very exclusive. They have tight restrictions on it.
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post #3399 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3400 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aloha29 View Post

hi guys,
last week i see a demo of sony hw50es, its just coming to my country.

here's my personal opinion for about 1 hour demo:
The dealer are projecting comparison image from 2 projector (sony hw50 and infocus 8604)
- the infocus 8604 looks soft in compared to sony hw50 (RC set to15 or 20, picture mode in reference)

the sony have sharp image, good contrast, bright enough, smooth motion., deep black

but i feel somelike the sony lack of filmlike feeling, the image looks digital and lacks of depth.

also my eyes feel fatigue when watching the sony 3D, i feel some fast flickering.

so now i have doubt to buy sony HW50,

I want to find Benq W7000 demo and i'll see if i like it.

How about your opinion guys?


thanx

out of topic :
in another day, i see a demo of optoma HD33 in another dealer, me and my friends eye feel unconfortable/fatigue when watching the movie in 2D.
then we see a demo of sim2 crystalview 35, picture looks beauty and eye feel more comfortable

The Sony 3D shouldn't bother most viewers, but if you are sensitive to refresh rate, the Epson 5020 is better than the Sony in this regard. The panels are faster and the image is more solid in 3D for those that are sensitive to this. I watched about 4 hours of various 3D clips on my BQ W7000 last night, the image in 3D is rock solid on this projector.

The HD33 fatigue you are seeing is likely rainbow effect. the Sim2 35 has a faster color wheel which makes it easier on the eyes.

take a look at the Epson 5020, it might be a good compromise of 2D and 3D for your viewing preferences.
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post #3401 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 07:51 AM
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Excellent... You should have the panny 8000 projector delivered to you by Tuesday. I am looking forward to seeing how it compares to the current items in the shootout.
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

great, thanks very much! I'll calibrate it for you in 2D and 3D as well.
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post #3402 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Sony 3D shouldn't bother most viewers, but if you are sensitive to refresh rate, the Epson 5020 is better than the Sony in this regard. The panels are faster and the image is more solid in 3D for those that are sensitive to this. I watched about 4 hours of various 3D clips on my BQ W7000 last night, the image in 3D is rock solid on this projector.

The HD33 fatigue you are seeing is likely rainbow effect. the Sim2 35 has a faster color wheel which makes it easier on the eyes.

take a look at the Epson 5020, it might be a good compromise of 2D and 3D for your viewing preferences.

I can't recall if you commented on this - do you see RBE with the W7000? I have a friend who has the Acer 5360, and I saw RBE a few times watching 3D on it.

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post #3403 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I can't recall if you commented on this - do you see RBE with the W7000? I have a friend who has the Acer 5360, and I saw RBE a few times watching 3D on it.

I still have my Acer 5360, I had it hooked up a little while to make sure my Nvidia glasses were still working. I could see RBE in 3D once in a while on the Acer but not on the W7000. I was really looking for it last night.

I haven't used the W7000 since I blacked out my ceiling a few weeks ago, so I wanted see how it looked in 3D. The FI in 3D is nice, it's more subtle in 3D than it is in 2D for some reason. The image is very solid and naturally sharp. I was jumping around between 3D animations, action, and a number of clips from Step Up 3D and Street Dance 3D. These movies are shot in native 3D and have some very creative scenes that look excellent.

When in 3D mode, the contrast doesn't bother me on this projector. Maybe the red flash + Optoma ZD 201 help. Everything else looks great, color, 3D depth, no crosstalk, etc. The main reason I decided to keep it vs. trying out the 5020 is the FI in 3D. I find 3D very easy on the eyes with this projector.

It's nice and bright with the lens centered on the HP. I think i'm ok with 3D for a little while until something new comes out in the fall. This is the first year I haven't upgraded, I'm still a fan of the RS55 + W7000 combo. cool.gif

I think the W7000 reviews are still valid today.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w7000-projector.html

http://www.hometheater.com/content/benq-w7000-3d-dlp-projector-0
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post #3404 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 12:47 PM
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My room is only 12'11" deep. I wanted the w7000 for 3D only. MikeGarret, at avscience, told me that no 3d dlp would work in my room as I use the scope zoom method on on a 40x96" screen. The 7000 has a min throw ratio of 1.6 so it would not fill my screen. Is that 1.6 dead on or could it in practice actually be a little lower? I know it won't fill my entire screen but I'm considering getting the 7000 anyway and just masking down for scope 3d bd's.

Anyone know what width, in reality, I could actually get if the projector was shelf mounted as close to the back wall as possible? If an owner could check this out with their 7000, I would be beyond grateful.smile.gif

Would the zoom method work with this projector placed about 1'3 of the way above the bottom of the screen? I have no idea whar the 7000's vertical shift is.

Other than a conversion lens or HE lens, is there any other way for me to fill the screen i.e. a scaler? If a scaler would work, would it degrade the image in comparison to zooming out?

My 2d jvc has a throw of 1.4 but in practice it is actually a fair amount lower.


Thanks:)

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My equipment: JVC RS55 for 2D, BenQ W7000 for 3D, Carada 40x117 2.925:1 AR BW Criterion screen, Navatar .8 HD conversion lens, Darbee Darblet, region free Oppo BP93, Toshiba HD-A35 HD-DVD, JVC HD-DH5U D-Theater, Mitsubishi HS-HD 20000 DVHS, Pioneer CLD-97 LD player/AC-3 mod, B&K AC3 Demodulator
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post #3405 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I still have my Acer 5360, I had it hooked up a little while to make sure my Nvidia glasses were still working. I could see RBE in 3D once in a while on the Acer but not on the W7000. I was really looking for it last night.

I haven't used the W7000 since I blacked out my ceiling a few weeks ago, so I wanted see how it looked in 3D. The FI in 3D is nice, it's more subtle in 3D than it is in 2D for some reason. The image is very solid and naturally sharp. I was jumping around between 3D animations, action, and a number of clips from Step Up 3D and Street Dance 3D. These movies are shot in native 3D and have some very creative scenes that look excellent.

When in 3D mode, the contrast doesn't bother me on this projector. Maybe the red flash + Optoma ZD 201 help. Everything else looks great, color, 3D depth, no crosstalk, etc. The main reason I decided to keep it vs. trying out the 5020 is the FI in 3D. I find 3D very easy on the eyes with this projector.

It's nice and bright with the lens centered on the HP. I think i'm ok with 3D for a little while until something new comes out in the fall. This is the first year I haven't upgraded, I'm still a fan of the RS55 + W7000 combo. cool.gif

I think the W7000 reviews are still valid today.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/projectors/projectors-reviews/benq-w7000-projector.html

http://www.hometheater.com/content/benq-w7000-3d-dlp-projector-0


My experience is very similar. I continue to be impressed with the 3d on the 7000 and the image is just rock solid as you have mentioned all these months. Watched both the RE 3d movies last night and during the end part of Afterlife when they are in that all white type room on the ship, I was actually squinting a bit from the brightness through the glasses which was awesome! biggrin.gif I know you have mentioned this as well at times, but I think I might have spoke to soon about needing much more brightness from this machine in 3d, at least getting the gain I am off the HP. Seeing 3d nearly as bright as my 2d image is absolutely fantastic! cool.gif

I also have not seen one single rainbow yet on the 7000 in the nearly 100 hours I have put on the lamp so far in either 3d or 2d which I am a bit surprised by. It has been a long time since I owned a DLP, but last one I did have here was rainbow city for me. Guess I am not as sensitive to RBE as I once thought.

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post #3406 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

My experience is very similar. I continue to be impressed with the 3d on the 7000 and the image is just rock solid as you have mentioned all these months. Watched both the RE 3d movies last night and during the end part of Afterlife when they are in that all white type room on the ship, I was actually squinting a bit from the brightness through the glasses which was awesome! biggrin.gif I know you have mentioned this as well at times, but I think I might have spoke to soon about needing much more brightness from this machine in 3d, at least getting the gain I am off the HP. Seeing 3d nearly as bright as my 2d image is absolutely fantastic! cool.gif

I also have not seen one single rainbow yet on the 7000 in the nearly 100 hours I have put on the lamp so far in either 3d or 2d which I am a bit surprised by. It has been a long time since I owned a DLP, but last one I did have here was rainbow city for me. Guess I am not as sensitive to RBE as I once thought.

Don't be so sure about RBE. DLP's showing 3D show a lot less RBE than when showing 2D. Have you watched anything on the 7000 in 2D? Give it a try and let us know. My Acer is RBE free for me in 3D, but 2D is another story.
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post #3407 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 02:21 PM
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In the case of the W7000 I believe the wheel speed is a notch slower for 3D. My experience with the W7000 was rainbows in 3D, next to none in 2D.
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post #3408 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Don't be so sure about RBE. DLP's showing 3D show a lot less RBE than when showing 2D. Have you watched anything on the 7000 in 2D? Give it a try and let us know. My Acer is RBE free for me in 3D, but 2D is another story.

I hear ya and I know it might creep up during 2d if/when I start doing more of that. Only 2d I have done so far is maybe 5 hours total playing SSX in the last month or so on the xbox while the rest of my lamp hours have been in 3d. I would think this would be a good RBE test though with the fast quick pans of the snowboarder on the mountain?
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In the case of the W7000 I believe the wheel speed is a notch slower for 3D. My experience with the W7000 was rainbows in 3D, next to none in 2D.

Interesting. So since I dont see them at all in 3d, I might continue to be fine in 2d as well from the sounds of it. Time will tell, but I am surprised that I have not seen them yet.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #3409 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

My experience is very similar. I continue to be impressed with the 3d on the 7000 and the image is just rock solid as you have mentioned all these months. Watched both the RE 3d movies last night and during the end part of Afterlife when they are in that all white type room on the ship, I was actually squinting a bit from the brightness through the glasses which was awesome! biggrin.gif I know you have mentioned this as well at times, but I think I might have spoke to soon about needing much more brightness from this machine in 3d, at least getting the gain I am off the HP. Seeing 3d nearly as bright as my 2d image is absolutely fantastic! cool.gif

I also have not seen one single rainbow yet on the 7000 in the nearly 100 hours I have put on the lamp so far in either 3d or 2d which I am a bit surprised by. It has been a long time since I owned a DLP, but last one I did have here was rainbow city for me. Guess I am not as sensitive to RBE as I once thought.

In 2D, I saw noticeable RBE on the Mitsubishi 8000 vs the BQ W7000 even though the color wheel speed should be the same. I had to turn the 8000 up to 6x to reduce it, but it changes the PQ - the image becomes a bit 'flatter' if there is a way to describe it. The W7000 is definitely better than the Acer 5360 with RBE.

I spent a few hours last week directly comparing 5020 and W7000. With the room darkened, I was seeing crosstalk I didn't notice before. Most people would miss it, but the W7000 sets a certain expectation of never seeing it.
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post #3410 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Don't be so sure about RBE. DLP's showing 3D show a lot less RBE than when showing 2D. Have you watched anything on the 7000 in 2D? Give it a try and let us know. My Acer is RBE free for me in 3D, but 2D is another story.

I can see rainbows in 2D on the Benq w7000 occasionally in 4x mode, but it isn't that bad or all that much. I am more rainbow sensitive than most, on the Mits hc4000 I can see them much worse even when in 4x vs. 4x. The Acer 5360 was only a 3x color wheel. I do not find the w7000's 6x CW mode all that useful for me though, as it's too loud, but it's nice to have just in case I suppose. You can make all modes on the w7000 6x speed simply by changing the color wheel from 2x to 3x in the service menu, but again I don't do it because of the noise of the wheel spinning and I don't see rainbows that often.

I also love the fact the Benq has a manual IRIS mode, without this, really need an ND filter for 2D on many screen sizes, but luckily we don't.


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post #3411 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I was playing around with the iris when I rebuild my HTPC last month.

HTPC-1.jpg
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post #3412 of 8908 Old 02-02-2013, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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this is pretty cool, a custom calibrated VW1000 by Cine4home.

http://cine4home.de/knowhow/Cine4Home_Edition_Sony_VW1000/Sony_VPL_VW1000-C4HEd.htm

this is the first review that discusses the native contrast.
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post #3413 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

In 2D, I saw noticeable RBE on the Mitsubishi 8000 vs the BQ W7000 even though the color wheel speed should be the same. I had to turn the 8000 up to 6x to reduce it, but it changes the PQ - the image becomes a bit 'flatter' if there is a way to describe it. The W7000 is definitely better than the Acer 5360 with RBE.

I spent a few hours last week directly comparing 5020 and W7000. With the room darkened, I was seeing crosstalk I didn't notice before. Most people would miss it, but the W7000 sets a certain expectation of never seeing it.

Having spent more time with my 5020 now, I do see some crosstalk, but only when I have stark white on dark, mostly type. I don't find it to be noticeable at all during most viewing, but I'm coming from a first generation JVC which always ghosted badly, even with a new bulb, so I understand what you're saying, a lot has to do with what you're used to.
I'm still very impressed and happy with this for 3D in my set up, with no HP screen I need all the brightness and this has a lot.
I finally hooked up my new OPPO 103 with a new RedMere cable, and the handshake issues I was having with a 3D signal have gone away.

S A M 33
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post #3414 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I can see rainbows in 2D on the Benq w7000 occasionally in 4x mode, but it isn't that bad or all that much. I am more rainbow sensitive than most, on the Mits hc4000 I can see them much worse even when in 4x vs. 4x. The Acer 5360 was only a 3x color wheel. I do not find the w7000's 6x CW mode all that useful for me though, as it's too loud, but it's nice to have just in case I suppose. You can make all modes on the w7000 6x speed simply by changing the color wheel from 2x to 3x in the service menu, but again I don't do it because of the noise of the wheel spinning and I don't see rainbows that often.

I also love the fact the Benq has a manual IRIS mode, without this, really need an ND filter for 2D on many screen sizes, but luckily we don't.

Guys, regarding RBE in 2D, I got the W1070 few days ago and the RBE was quite apparent. I saw it quite often watching Hugo but not as bad as the H9500 I had before. However, because the picture was so bright on my 120" screen even with Cinema mode and Smart eco, I went to Bestbuy to get the ND4 filter. Oh boy, the RBE was just about gone !! I can't believe it. I'd say the RBE got cut by > 85%. I can really enjoy watching movies now without getting distracted. Coderguy mentioned in the past the RBE was due to brightness and he was right !! For you guys who are RBE sensitive, give ND filters a try.
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post #3415 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

However, because the picture was so bright on my 120" screen even with Cinema mode and Smart eco, I went to Bestbuy to get the ND4 filter.

 

Why not go into the service menu (of the W7000) and reduce the brightness?

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post #3416 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Why not go into the service menu (of the W7000) and reduce the brightness?
W1070... No iris.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #3417 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ranger View Post

Guys, regarding RBE in 2D, I got the W1070 few days ago and the RBE was quite apparent. I saw it quite often watching Hugo but not as bad as the H9500 I had before. However, because the picture was so bright on my 120" screen even with Cinema mode and Smart eco, I went to Bestbuy to get the ND4 filter. Oh boy, the RBE was just about gone !! I can't believe it. I'd say the RBE got cut by > 85%. I can really enjoy watching movies now without getting distracted. Coderguy mentioned in the past the RBE was due to brightness and he was right !! For you guys who are RBE sensitive, give ND filters a try.

How does it look in 3D? are you seeing less RBE in 3D vs 2D?
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post #3418 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by S A M 33 View Post

Having spent more time with my 5020 now, I do see some crosstalk, but only when I have stark white on dark, mostly type. I don't find it to be noticeable at all during most viewing, but I'm coming from a first generation JVC which always ghosted badly, even with a new bulb, so I understand what you're saying, a lot has to do with what you're used to.
I'm still very impressed and happy with this for 3D in my set up, with no HP screen I need all the brightness and this has a lot.
I finally hooked up my new OPPO 103 with a new RedMere cable, and the handshake issues I was having with a 3D signal have gone away.

S A M 33

The 5020 is one the best non-DLP's with regard to crosstalk. I'm also a big fan of the Epson RF glasses, possibly my favorite of all the factory glasses so far. I do wish they would have put the FI and super-resolution in 3D mode, but there has to be something to add to the 5030 in the next 7 months. smile.gif

We'll have a side by side of the Panasonic 8000 and the 5020 soon thanks to forum member Ravex911.
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post #3419 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

How does it look in 3D? are you seeing less RBE in 3D vs 2D?

I don't have 3D glasses for the W1070 yet but I don't foresee a problem. The H9500 had worse RBE in 2D but I couldn't see it in 3D.
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post #3420 of 8908 Old 02-03-2013, 09:33 AM
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So how does the w1070 and h9500 compare in 2d?
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