Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 117 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014
Elix's Avatar Elix 06:28 AM 02-09-2013

S A M 33's Avatar S A M 33 06:58 AM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pliesj View Post

Note that the 6500 used Epson's D7 LCD panels, which only had 52% fill factor. The 5010/20 use the newer D9 panels with 65% fill factor. I have an Epson 7500 with D7 and last week I evaluated a 5020 at my dealer. The screen door effect is definitely reduced with the D9 panels.



Having a JVC as my previous primary projector and sitting close to a very large screen, one of my main concerns with the 5020 was seeing pixels, which I'm sensitive to.
I can honestly say that I've not found it to be a problem - I got it for 3D and there's NO problem with seeing them there due to the glasses, etc., but last weekend I used the Epson for the Super Bowl, and I found the image looked just fine, again no pixel issues from pretty darn close seating.
Now, the picture's not as "smooth" or "refined" to my eye as the JVC, but I honestly think it's pretty good even for regular content. Still I'm using the RS40 for 2D and the Epson for 3D.

S A M 33

Gagorian's Avatar Gagorian 01:43 PM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagorian View Post

It is kind of hard to get to show up on a picture without adding too much noise, I had to adjust the contrast and gamma a bit to make it more visible. Below is my best attempt so far:

119" Da-Lite High Power 2.4 (white image, short exposure, adjusted contrast, brightness and gamma)

*Image removed*

I've also grabbed a short and rather low quality clip with a few vertical pans demonstrating the issue. It's hosted on google docs (75 MB):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0gfCipWyN13RE0xVm1feFBXcFE/edit

I've submitted these to Da-Lite for review, I'll post an update when I know more.

I know this isn't completely relevant to this thread but I posted a while back regarding the problems with my 119" brand new Da-Lite High Power screen. I submitted the images and the video of my first screen to my dealer and I received a new HP 2.4 from Da-Lite, and it looks like this:




Can I hear you say vertical stripes? The pictures are completely unedited.

When my dealer reported the problem with the above replacement screen to Da-Lite, the Da-Lite representative said they aren't aware of any issues with their HP 2.4 screens. The rep also said they can't see any problem with the video clip I posted earlier. However they still promised to send me a new screen, but if they aren't aware of this or can't even spot the issue, I'm seriously doubtful a new screen will solve this.

I'm posting this here just so people are aware that the new HP 2.4 isn't the same quality as the HP 2.8 Zombie likes to praise.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 02:21 PM 02-09-2013
thanks for posting, I'm interested in the recent HP stories from different members. My 2.8HP is from 2010 and was one of the last 2.8's that was made. I've owned 3 2.8HP's of different sizes and never saw vertical stripes like in those photos.

What is lighting up the screen in that photo? a 40-50% gray pattern?

It's not obvious in that video but I do see it in the photos.

I did an install of a 2.4 for a friend, but it was over a year ago and didn't see that issue. Maybe something with the material changed or a bad batch.
Seegs108's Avatar Seegs108 03:02 PM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagorian View Post

I know this isn't completely relevant to this thread but I posted a while back regarding the problems with my 119" brand new Da-Lite High Power screen. I submitted the images and the video of my first screen to my dealer and I received a new HP 2.4 from Da-Lite, and it looks like this:




Can I hear you say vertical stripes? The pictures are completely unedited.

When my dealer reported the problem with the above replacement screen to Da-Lite, the Da-Lite representative said they aren't aware of any issues with their HP 2.4 screens. The rep also said they can't see any problem with the video clip I posted earlier. However they still promised to send me a new screen, but if they aren't aware of this or can't even spot the issue, I'm seriously doubtful a new screen will solve this.

I'm posting this here just so people are aware that the new HP 2.4 isn't the same quality as the HP 2.8 Zombie likes to praise.

Check this thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455184/hats-off-to-da-lite/0_50

I had the same issue as you did with my first 2.4 HPHC screen. The replacement I received doesn't have the issue. While waiting for my replacement I picked up a HP 2.8 screen and it is basically an entirely different screen material if you ask me. The surface is SMOOTH unlike the patterned 2.4 material. It also has a bit more pop (due to the higher gain), unfortunately they don't make it anymore and 2.8 HP screens are hard to come by in great condition on the used market. I lucked out. With that said, if you do receive a 2.4 like my replacement screen it gets you to about 85% of what a 2.8 HP screen looks like. If anyone is interested, I do have the replacement for sale currently and is basically new. I only had it rolled down for a couple hours to check to make sure it was better than the first. and it is....MUCH better than the original screen I received in regards to the issues mentioned above.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 03:28 PM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I received the 92" HP 2.8 screen today. All I have to say is that the 2.8 material is a totally different beast. The screen is VERY smooth. Recently I've been getting screen samples from many different manufacturers including Da-Lite (other materials), Stewart and Carada. It seems the only white materials that are smoother (as in you slide your finger tip across to feel the material) are StudioTek 100, Carada Classic White, and (Da-Lite) JKP Affinity 1.1 material. The latter being the smoothest out of all four. That smooth characteristic really helps the image to look as sharp as possible. The 2.4 HP material in comparison feels like fine grit sand paper. Considering that this is such a high gain material and they have to add a glass coating, the fact that this material is so smooth is nothing short of a miracle. The production costs must have been too high to keep manufacturing the material the way they did. It's a shame they don't make this material for screens anymore. It's THAT much better than the 2.4 HP material. If you have a chance to get your hands on a HP 2.8 that will fit your room definitely buy it.

Don't get me wrong, the HP 2.4 material is still nice and definitely worth buying if you're in need of something high gain, but in comparison to the older material it's no contest.

I saw this post in the other thread. My original HP was 92" model C. How is the uniformity on this screen?

When I installed a 2.4 about a year ago, I noticed the screen texture was different. When I ordered my 142", a VP @ Dalite told me they couldn't get the materials any longer to make the 2.8. That could translate into 'it was too expensive'. If they still made the 2.8 today, I would have paid a premium to have it available.

airscapes closeup might explain why it looks so smooth. the 2.8 beads look like the same size and equal distance from one another.

900x900px-LL-39c537df_sampleandscreen.jpeg
Gagorian's Avatar Gagorian 03:28 PM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for posting, I'm interested in the recent HP stories from different members. My 2.8HP is from 2010 and was one of the last 2.8's that was made. I've owned 3 2.8HP's of different sizes and never saw vertical stripes like in those photos.

What is lighting up the screen in that photo? a 40-50% gray pattern?

It's not obvious in that video but I do see it in the photos.

I did an install of a 2.4 for a friend, but it was over a year ago and didn't see that issue. Maybe something with the material changed or a bad batch.

I just selected a light colored fill (two different tints, other is light blue and other is light yellow) in MS paint and displayed it full screen. The exposure time is kind of short so you can't see the tint. The video is of the first screen and the issue is kind of different, if you look at the ground at 16 seconds you can see darker horizontal bands, there's several less severe horizontal bands that you can't see on the video. It's not very easy to spot on the video, but definitely very distracting in full size seen live. The second screen has mostly vertical striping, which is probably even worse as they show up easily on horizontal pans, which are more common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Check this thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455184/hats-off-to-da-lite/0_50

I had the same issue as you did with my first 2.4 HPHC screen. The replacement I received doesn't have the issue. While waiting for my replacement I picked up a HP 2.8 screen and it is basically an entirely different screen material if you ask me. The surface is SMOOTH unlike the patterned 2.4 material. It also has a bit more pop (due to the higher gain), unfortunately they don't make it anymore and 2.8 HP screens are hard to come by in great condition on the used market. I lucked out. With that said, if you do receive a 2.4 like my replacement screen it gets you to about 85% of what a 2.8 HP screen looks like. If anyone is interested, I do have the replacement for sale currently and is basically new. I only had it rolled down for a couple hours to check to make sure it was better than the first. and it is....MUCH better than the original screen I received in regards to the issues mentioned above.

Well, I'm still skeptical but at least that would mean there's some hope. I received my first screen in the beginning of January and the 2nd screen about a week ago. So that's at least one month worth of bad batches. I can't see how the company couldn't be aware of these issues, especially with at least 4 or 5 users reporting this only on these forums. I told my dealer to tell Da-Lite I'd rather wait a longer time for a new screen as long as it's OK. I live in Finland, practically on the other side of the globe, so it's a shame to ship these faulty screens back and forth. At least Da-Lite is being very accomodating and are paying for the screens being delivered by air transport (that's like 250 dollars per screen).
Seegs108's Avatar Seegs108 03:43 PM 02-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I saw this post in the other thread. My original HP was 92" model C. How is the uniformity on this screen?

When I installed a 2.4 about a year ago, I noticed the screen texture was different. When I ordered my 142", a VP @ Dalite told me they couldn't get the materials any longer to make the 2.8. That could translate into 'it was too expensive'. If they still made the 2.8 today, I would have paid a premium to have it available.

airscapes closeup might explain why it looks so smooth. the 2.8 beads look like the same size and equal distance from one another.

It's more than just the grains of glass on the screen. It has to do with how they "press" the material there as there is an inherent crosshatch look to all of Da-Lite's current materials (with the exception of the JKP Affinity screens) and the HP 2.4 and HPHC 2.4 is no exception. All of the samples of different screens they offer had a lot of texture (minus the JKP). That unsmooth characteristic and non-uniform nature of the glass beads adds an extra amount of graininess to the image that just isn't there with the HP 2.8 material.

Here is their regular Da-Mat 1.0 material which has the same "crosshatch" texture as the rest of the material they sell ( I had to place something on the material to get the autofocus to work properly):



The HP 2.4 has the same texture but there is extra graininess to the image because of either excess glass or non-uniform beads (which makes it stand out more?). The HP 2.8 material is not like this at all. It looks and feels exceptionally smooth.
sotogng's Avatar sotogng 02:57 AM 02-10-2013
I want to know how the rs46 will perform against the Sony, with the new firmware and with it's own glasses and emitter... I am sure that in 2d will outperform the Sony and if it has an acceptable 3d... Zombie tested 4810 with the Sony but rs46 is brighter!1.gif
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 09:13 AM 02-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotogng View Post

I want to know how the rs46 will perform against the Sony, with the new firmware and with it's own glasses and emitter... I am sure that in 2d will outperform the Sony and if it has an acceptable 3d... Zombie tested 4810 with the Sony but rs46 is brighter!1.gif

I'm going with the info in this review for now unless someone with the post-firmware measures otherwise. In 2D, the RS46 isn't really brighter than the RS4810 with both systems calibrated.

The RS46 pre-firmware was close in 3D lumen output to the HW50 (~900 vs. 1000). The 4810 is ~560 with CT @ 0 and goes up to ~850 with the CT @ 8. Based on the photo in the review, it appears the post firmware update is similar to the 4810 shipping firmware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p71zvkaU910

germanreview.jpg

germanreview1.jpg

germanreview3.jpg
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:27 AM 02-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post



The HP 2.4 has the same texture but there is extra graininess to the image because of either excess glass or non-uniform beads (which makes it stand out more?). The HP 2.8 material is not like this at all. It looks and feels exceptionally smooth.

thanks for the close-up, this is how the 2.4 I installed last year looked. I was surpised how different it was from the 2.4 HP, definitely not as smooth.

Now I have to protect this screen.. the last of it's kind. cool.gif




JC - I updated the mediator last night to the beta firmware that support 23.97 3D BD playback. It worked well off the HD, but I started having issues with SMB streaming from the storage server. It was running OK before without an issue. They must have tweaked the SMB code.

I switched over to an NFS server discussed in this thread:

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,185.0.html

it was easy to setup on win7, runs as a service. It worked great, the skipping immediately disappeared and I was able to run full 3D BD with DTS-MA audio and 23.97 frame packed playback. I never saw the skip that was supposed to occure when it was 24 frame playback, but glad it's running in the right mode now.

let me know how you make out with the 600x model when it arrives.
cemo62's Avatar cemo62 12:42 PM 02-10-2013
Hello

For sony hw50es sony is sending external emmiter. Its name is TMR-PJ2 or TMR-PJ1?

In Turkey Sony sells Hw50es with TMR-PJ2 . so is this the good one or bad one?

Thank you
farkem's Avatar farkem 12:52 PM 02-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Hello

For sony hw50es sony is sending external emmiter. Its name is TMR-PJ2 or TMR-PJ1?

In Turkey Sony sells Hw50es with TMR-PJ2 . so is this the good one or bad one?

Thank you
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Sony 3D emitter info - correction from my comment earlier regarding the external transmitter. I didn't realize that Sony has released a new external transmitter that is different from the original.

The TMR-PJ2 is designed to be aimed at the screen and should be just as strong as the internal emitter (which I think is quite good). I had no sync issues with the various HW50's I recently calibrated.

That's definitely good news if you have an HW50 that has the buzz. This would be an easy solution and still get to keep your specific copy.

I imagine it would also work on the HW30 as well.


The TMR-PJ2 should be the right one.
cemo62's Avatar cemo62 12:59 PM 02-10-2013
Ah good news thank you, I read in some forums some people say they prefer optoma/mvision glassess for reducing ghosting/flickering, is this possible? or can we get better result in 3d with oppo 103 instead of PS3?
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 01:23 PM 02-10-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the close-up, this is how the 2.4 I installed last year looked. I was surpised how different it was from the 2.4 HP, definitely not as smooth.

Now I have to protect this screen.. the last of it's kind. cool.gif




JC - I updated the mediator last night to the beta firmware that support 23.97 3D BD playback. It worked well off the HD, but I started having issues with SMB streaming from the storage server. It was running OK before without an issue. They must have tweaked the SMB code.

I switched over to an NFS server discussed in this thread:

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,185.0.html

it was easy to setup on win7, runs as a service. It worked great, the skipping immediately disappeared and I was able to run full 3D BD with DTS-MA audio and 23.97 frame packed playback. I never saw the skip that was supposed to occure when it was 24 frame playback, but glad it's running in the right mode now.

let me know how you make out with the 600x model when it arrives.

I'll be using it with Unraid, not a Win7 server, but I'll report when I get it running. I'm about to invest in a used 24 bay server, and the plan is to migrate and consolidate my Unraid systems from their current home in Cooler Master Stacker cases. I wish I'd picked up more of those 3TB drives when Newegg had them on sale for $80/each a couple of months ago.
RickAVManiac's Avatar RickAVManiac 03:23 PM 02-10-2013
To Zombie and Joseph, you probably already know but just in case, with the mede8er you can have for you movie full jukebox functionality... All you need is a scraper tool like Yadis (very very easy to use) and use a small software to make the mede8er database. You can find all the info and the software here : http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,10081.0.html

With those 2 software you will be able the make your jukebox.

Here a couples of shots of the jukebox...







With the new beta 2.0 firmware you can now do a 3 rows presentation :


Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 08:02 PM 02-10-2013
Thanks, Rick. I ran across that in the Mede8ter thread. I've used MyMovies in the past, but the entry of all that info manually was a pain. I don't know if there's a "scraper" for MyMovies or not, but Yadis sounds great. If you don't mind, I might PM you if I have questions.
Manni01's Avatar Manni01 12:58 AM 02-11-2013
Hi Joseph.

Mymovies has a very good scraper if you set it up properly and read the wiki. I have a huge collection and almost never have to enter a movie manually. Occasionally, I have to correct its auto choice and select the right movie, but that doesn't involve any manual input.

Mymovies also supports the Mede8tor models to generate the index and possibly for direct playback with the ipad version of mymovies and an HTPC (tbc). I use a Dune model (new 3D model just out by the way, might be worth investigating as they are pretty solid players) as I love the ability to select a movie from my iphone or ipad and get it to play with the Dune or the HTPC.
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 01:26 AM 02-11-2013
Thanks, Manni. I definitely have some catching up to do. I've used MyMovies with Windows Media Center for a few years, entering the info manually by bar code or title. It was fairly easy, since I did it as the collection grew, but how did I not know about scrapers? redface.gif
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 01:28 AM 02-11-2013
Jason,

If you were on a deserted island and all you had was an AC outlet and a box full of 3D movies (and a 12,000 watt Imax caliber sound system), which of the projectors you've reviewed so far would you want to have with you?
cemo62's Avatar cemo62 03:15 AM 02-11-2013
haha great question i wonder the reply smile.gif
Elix's Avatar Elix 05:42 AM 02-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Jason,

If you were on a deserted island and all you had was an AC outlet and a box full of 3D movies (and a 12,000 watt Imax caliber sound system), which of the projectors you've reviewed so far would you want to have with you?
Does it come with an IMAX screen?
Manni01's Avatar Manni01 06:25 AM 02-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Thanks, Manni. I definitely have some catching up to do. I've used MyMovies with Windows Media Center for a few years, entering the info manually by bar code or title. It was fairly easy, since I did it as the collection grew, but how did I not know about scrapers? redface.gif

I really can't blame you for this, that's why I mentionned the wiki:). Mymovies isn't entirely plug and play, but investing a bit of time into it pays off huge dividends. Many of my friends (some of them quite computer literate) had the same issue with it and either got the wrong movies or had to enter them manually. There are a few things you have to do when setting it up (like use folder monitoring so it detects new movies and add them automatically, set the right default countries so you get the right titles, use full network path and not network drives so everything work as expected). But if you do that, it works great, switches refresh rates automatically and play everything beautifully at the right rate (I use TMT 5), including for 3D blurays, with full bluray menus unlike the recent mediaplayers which force you to use BD lite.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 06:33 AM 02-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Hi Joseph.

Mymovies has a very good scraper if you set it up properly and read the wiki. I have a huge collection and almost never have to enter a movie manually. Occasionally, I have to correct its auto choice and select the right movie, but that doesn't involve any manual input.

Mymovies also supports the Mede8tor models to generate the index and possibly for direct playback with the ipad version of mymovies and an HTPC (tbc). I use a Dune model (new 3D model just out by the way, might be worth investigating as they are pretty solid players) as I love the ability to select a movie from my iphone or ipad and get it to play with the Dune or the HTPC.

Manni - which dune player are you referring to? I read about a new model coming out soon but wasn't aware it was released.

The mediator is definitely better than the Mica EP950 i've been using, the support has been pretty weak and they never fixed the 23.97 bug.

I used YAMJ years ago with the popcorn hour, but got frustrated with it. It's been a awhile since I fussed with all these index apps. I just root through a long list of directories these days, I have to give these new apps a chance.
Manni01's Avatar Manni01 06:53 AM 02-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Manni - which dune player are you referring to? I read about a new model coming out soon but wasn't aware it was released.

The mediator is definitely better than the Mica EP950 i've been using, the support has been pretty weak and they never fixed the 23.97 bug.

I used YAMJ years ago with the popcorn hour, but got frustrated with it. It's been a awhile since I fussed with all these index apps. I just root through a long list of directories these days, I have to give these new apps a chance.

This is the new Dune player which can play 3D blurays (although only with BD lite, no full menus). It's already for sale in Europe and in the UK, not sure about the U.S. Zappiti have made a version of their own branded model which starts directly on the Zappiti interface (which is compatible with the MyMovies index as I understand it). Not sure if this one is available or not, and in which countries. The ability to set the starting screen (for example to the MyMovies index) might be added to non-Zappiti players in a future f/w (or not).

I haven't bought either because I dislike BD Lite, but I have the Base 3.0 (which doesn't play 3D blurays) and it's been very stable, plays everything at the right refresh rate with HD Audio. I hear there are some issues with HD Audio on the new Dune 3D models, but they (HDI) are usually very goood at fixing issues so I have no doubt a new f/w will fix this at some point.

There is talk of a Max model with XBMC based on an Intel platform with full menus (it would use an XBMC player), but they are being very vague (which probably means more than 6 months before it's available, if it ever is). As it would be an entirely new platform, I also would be reluctant to buy the first version, I'd probably wait and let others do the beta testing:).

I have decided to stick for now to my HTPC with MyMovies and TMT 5 build 146 so that I could play everything with full menus (I use an AMD 6870) at the right rate. I know that getting a HTPC to work is a bag of hurt, but since the 12.8 catalyst drivers everything works great on my rig and I stream ISO rips of my blurays (both 2D and 3D) from a few NAS. Feel free to email me if you'd like more details, as this can easily drag the thread o/t:).
Stuntman_Mike's Avatar Stuntman_Mike 08:31 AM 02-11-2013
Don't want to be off topic, but I know that there are a lot of Da-Lite HP screen advocates in here.

I'm thinking of taking the plunge with one. Is it better to get the High Contrast High Power screen or just the High Power one?

Also, gain aside, which has the better material in terms of no hotspotting or sparkle, the old 2.8 or the new 2.4?

Lastly, where is the best place to buy, read the most competitive prices?

Looking to get a fixed frame screen, Da-Snap most likely, in a 106" size.


Thanks
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 11:29 AM 02-11-2013
based on the recent conversations, i'd look at the regular 2.4 vs the HCHP. The 2.8 has been gone for about 2 years, but they do show used once in a while. I think they were relatively equal with hotspotting/sparkle, neither are an issue imo with this screen.

check with Mike or Craig at AVS, they have a good partnership with Dalite. That's where I ordered my 142" Cinema Contour from.
mankite's Avatar mankite 11:34 AM 02-11-2013
Zombie, what is the best projector you've seen in terms of shadow detail?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 11:37 AM 02-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Jason,

If you were on a deserted island and all you had was an AC outlet and a box full of 3D movies (and a 12,000 watt Imax caliber sound system), which of the projectors you've reviewed so far would you want to have with you?

Does the deserted island have a blacked out ceiling / floor? If so, it's going to have to be one of the DLP's. cool.gif

I was testing the mediator firmware update last night and watched a bunch of 3D clips on the 5020. I'm surprised how much more I'm seeing it now. The lamp has less than 200 hours.

the problem is, it's just perfect with the DLP's. They have their own issues, but they are the original 'ghost-buster' without a doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post


I have decided to stick for now to my HTPC with MyMovies and TMT 5 build 146 so that I could play everything with full menus (I use an AMD 6870) at the right rate. I know that getting a HTPC to work is a bag of hurt, but since the 12.8 catalyst drivers everything works great on my rig and I stream ISO rips of my blurays (both 2D and 3D) from a few NAS. Feel free to email me if you'd like more details, as this can easily drag the thread o/t:).

thanks for all the info. Looks like the Dune 3D is on a waiting list in the US, I might grab one just because I know they've had good success with the 2D models.

I have a nice little shuttle SFF box for my HTPC and PDVD + TMT5. I use them when in a pinch - meaning the other media players choke on a specific 3D Movie (like Sammy's Adventure 2). The problem is, I never found a good way to turn it into a jukebox, so I was always mounting the ISO, running the player via a mouse, etc. Not very HT friendly. I'll send you an email for some info on your setup. It might inspire me to hook up the HTPC again.

thanks!
Joseph Clark's Avatar Joseph Clark 12:09 PM 02-11-2013
Definitely off topic, so you may want to skip this.

I've had HTPCs for a long time, and I love them when they work. The problems usually pop up when the graphics card drivers are updated, or TMT or PDVD gets an upgrade, or sometimes even when I make other "innocuous" changes. Auto frame rate change doesn't work anymore, or I lose features, or 3D doesn't work. It's wonderful when everything goes as it's supposed to, but maddening when it doesn't. The next frustrating hiccup lurks right around the corner. I'll continue to have a HTPC for my main room. I have a mouse and keyboard on a small table right next to my seat, and a Harmony with Media Center codes. It's great. But if I can bypass much of the on-going drama with the Mede8ter, I'm looking forward to it. I don't mind BD Lite most of the time. More often than not, Blu-ray menus just bug me. Based on my early experiences, HD DVD provided a much friendlier user experience. I still find myself wishing it had won the format "war."
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