Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, you didn't miss anything, I haven't had a chance to A/B the Sony / JVC in 2D mode yet, but will soon in a few days once this storm passed.
~.

thanks. be very interesting how they compare. hoping your going to check out how they are 3D wise too ? I know the rs55 is average for 3D but wonder just how much better the sony is smile.gif

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


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post #362 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 05:28 AM
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Black uniformity was good on the preproduction sample I had. We saw no bright corners there. But I think not every unit will be that good here.
For me thats not a problem anyway. Normally you need some time to adapt to the dark screen before you see the bright corners. Most movies do not have totally black scenes for such a long time. Except 2001..

What concerned me more was the shading in grey pictures with that unit, it was blue-ish in the middle and reddish at the sides. I hope this will be better with the serial production units. However it was not visible in the movie scenes I watched.

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Quote:
I only measured the lumen output in 3D (uncorrected ~1064 at near shortest throw)
You measured this without the glasses I suppose?


@sarangiman: Those diagrams of the manufacturers for how the sequential 3D works usually refer to 60p material.
When you count 1/240, 3/240, 5/240 and so on, you get 120 Hz, this is for both eyes, so 60 Hz for one eye.
normally with 24p 3D material there is no pulldown, therefore the frequency per eye has to be an "integer multiple" (don't know if thats the right word) of 24 per eye.
Since those projectors can only show 120 different pictures per second, only 2*24 per eye is possible. Otherwise you would have a 24 Hz flicker per eye and this would be unwatchable.

So in my opinion with 24p material (without FI) it looks like this:

L1 - D - R1 - D - L1 - D - R1 - D - L2 - D - R2 - D - L2 - D - ....
(D: Dark, both shutters closed).
With that you have 48 Hz per eye and thats the flicker you see.
In digital cinema with Real D system they show every picture 3 times, known as triple flash, so thats 72 Hz per eye, and most people don't see flicker with that frequency. In total that's 144 Hz for the projector, but the LCOS and LCD home cinema projectors can't do that.

With the Sony a new image will be "drawn" on screen in a 1/240 s. Thats the dark pause and there both shutters must be closed.

Epson and Panasonic (using the Epson Panels) "draw" the new image in 1/480 s, so the dark pause is shorter, but only with this interlaced trick that only half of the lines are drawn in the dark pause and the rest of the image is added when one shutter is open again.
So I think because the dark pause is that short you don't see that much flicker with these LCD-panels.

With JVC it's a different thing. While Sonys SXRD- and the LCD-panels are driven analog, JVCs drives the panels digitally, so they don't have to "draw" a picture line by line but can adress all pixels at one time. At the JVC original glasses both shutters are never closed at the same time. The dark pause is only on screen, by switching all pixels to dark at the same time.
JVC claims that this causes less ghosting but at least until the newest generation the opposit was the case! Also many people saw more flicker with the JVC projectors in 3D than with other projectors.

Now looking again at the FI in 3D with the Sony: It has still 2 modes: low and high.
As I said (or supposed at least), by default every frame is doubled per eye so there is a chance to interpolate one of those frames for the FI. This is then the low-setting I think.
But where is the chance for the high-setting to interpolate more than one image then?
The only solution I find is that then there will be a 3:2 pulldown and each eye will have 60 Hz and the FI in high setting will smooth the judder.

But I'm absolutely not sure about that.

Quote:
Interesting, you think the flicker in 3D is b/c of 48Hz frame doubled 24p material? In that case, if I turned off 1080/24p mode on my PS3 player itself, would flicker be better with the 60p signal?
I'm not sure if you can turn off 24p mode with 24p framepacked material from a 3D Bluray!?

Christian
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post #363 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 09:47 AM
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Jason, any word on 5020 today or tomorrow? hopefully today!
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post #364 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 10:38 AM
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Can you guys recommend a screen to buy? I'm planning to get the JVC X55r and need to buy the screen but i have no idea which one. I will have a completely light controlled room and the projector will be shooting from 13ft. I can spend up to $800 and i'm looking for a 120" screen, i will mostly be watching 2D.
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post #365 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by fabrixce View Post

Can you guys recommend a screen to buy? I'm planning to get the JVC X55r and need to buy the screen but i have no idea which one. I will have a completely light controlled room and the projector will be shooting from 13ft. I can spend up to $800 and i'm looking for a 120" screen, i will mostly be watching 2D.

If you have any fabrication skills at all you can build one for about half that amount.

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post #366 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 01:15 PM
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If you have any fabrication skills at all you can build one for about half that amount.

I don't my self but I know someone who can help me out. What would I need to buy?
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post #367 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 01:20 PM
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I don't my self but I know someone who can help me out. What would I need to buy?

1x3 or 1x4 poplar, MDF trim, and some velvet. (A pneumatic stapler really helps too. biggrin.gif )

http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp

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post #368 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabrixce View Post

I don't my self but I know someone who can help me out. What would I need to buy?

Hey, don't take this the wrong way but this is not the appropriate thread to post what screen you should buy. You need to post in the screen forum. This thread is for the shoot out between the various projectors and should stay on topic.

Thanks,
Mike

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post #369 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post

Hey, don't take this the wrong way but this is not the appropriate thread to post what screen you should buy. You need to post in the screen forum. This thread is for the shoot out between the various projectors and should stay on topic.
Thanks,
Mike

Sorry I guess... I'm interested only on the projectos in this shootout so I wanted to get opinions on screens good for these projectors. Thats why I posted here.
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post #370 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

1x3 or 1x4 poplar, MDF trim, and some velvet. (A pneumatic stapler really helps too. biggrin.gif )
http://www.seymourav.com/screensDIY.asp

Thank you Bass Addict...
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post #371 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 08:00 PM
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This thread is dangerous... My wife just walked in and asked me why I was staring at Dwayne Johnson's chest! It's detailed! Honest!

Conrad
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post #372 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 09:56 PM
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This thread is dangerous... My wife just walked in and asked me why I was staring at Dwayne Johnson's chest! It's detailed! Honest!

Yes! We need new screenshot like this.

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post #373 of 8715 Old 10-30-2012, 10:32 PM
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Yeah, it's great she still had lipstick, teeth whitener, and a razor to shave her armpits while her wet tank top fell apart. Too bad we couldn't see if she shaved her... Oops! Never mind.

On thread, will the new Mits HC8000 make it into the comparison? What's the word?

What I can afford, when I can afford it...
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post #374 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

On thread, will the new Mits HC8000 make it into the comparison? What's the word?

Pretty sure Zombie mention it will be include in the comparasion.
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post #375 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 01:35 PM
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zombie10k,
Any updates on the 5020.

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post #376 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

zombie10k,
Any updates on the 5020.

Hi guys, sorry for the delay. I'm sure many of you have seen the damage from Hurricane Sandy, we have about 200,000 people without power in my town since Sunday. I am running off a Honda generator for essentials, but don't dare power my HT equipment as much as it's tempting.

I have the 5020 and will resume the shootout tests in a few days once our power is restored.


RE: HC8000 - we are definitely going to see the HC8000, i'm trying to find out the availability date. stayed tuned for more info.
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post #377 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 02:25 PM
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Hope you and your family are OK.

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post #378 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I am running off a Honda generator for essentials, but don't dare power my HT equipment as much as it's tempting.

I, for one, am delighted that posting to AVS is one of the "essentials"... tongue.gif

Glad to hear you were able to weather the storm - stay safe, and do what you gotta do first. As much as we don't like to admit it, the HT stuff can indeed wait until things are calm again.

--Brett
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post #379 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Yes! We need new screenshot like this.

Its a great Darblet test. Its not porn, she's dressed. There isn't a lot of contrast in the white tee shirt and the Darblet can resolve the threads as well as make the hidden part of the chest peaks have greater depth and realism. This is the AV Science Forum. Make the explanation scientific rather than biological and you will be cool. remember in HT, the only forbidden organic is in the panels.

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post #380 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 03:53 PM
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Hope you are doing well Zombie10k! Use that generator wisely!

We all are anxious to hear your results but we know there are more important things in life than watching video! Take care!
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post #381 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 04:08 PM
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Wishing all goes well for you zombie!!!
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post #382 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 04:54 PM
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Lol u zombie probably had the whole street at his place watching movies.

I'm in Ohio and sandy hit pretty good here lots of power out and a lot of basements flooded
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post #383 of 8715 Old 10-31-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

zombie10k,
Any updates on the 5020.

FYI, on the 5020 thread it was tested that lag on the 5020 model is AT LEAST 60ms. It is a definitive test with proof.

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post #384 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post

FYI, on the 5020 thread it was tested that lag on the 5020 model is AT LEAST 60ms. It is a definitive test with proof.

Aint that higher then last year
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post #385 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 04:30 AM
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Aint that higher then last year

No, the 5010 was around 80ms.

Jason
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post #386 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 05:25 AM
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DaGamePimp, please get a cheap CRT to do lag tests.

How much lag does your laptop LCD have?

I,was looking through your pics... Nice setup(s) smile.gif
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post #387 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 05:31 AM
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Art almost completed his review on Epson 5020. It's interesting

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/index.php
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post #388 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 08:35 AM
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Yeah, it's still missing a few pages..but what I read..is my same observation..3d brightness is no longer an issue!
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post #389 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 08:45 AM
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You got the brightness for 3D, now what about 3D quality I didn't see that. I'll wait for zombie10k review.

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post #390 of 8715 Old 11-01-2012, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsil View Post

You got the brightness for 3D, now what about 3D quality I didn't see that. I'll wait for zombie10k review.

Our power is back on, so I should be able to get some 5020 lag measurements and 3D lumens, but it won't be until after 10pm EST tonight.
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